Open 304 - Hard Boiled, Game Over. Was DY's Dystopia saved?

[zMuffinMan]

EBWOP:

And again, you could conceivably see an Amrun-Muffin pairing. How about you take a solid stance.

Do you think I'm scum or not? Why or why not?

[don_johnson]

vote: redcoyote

Muffin is dead on. I think I pointed it out yesterday.

[DarthYoshi]

Day Two, Votecount the First:

toffee (1): Amrun
Amrun (2): Scott Brosius, RedCoyote
RedCoyote (2): zMuffinMan, don_johnson
Not Voting (3): Smashbro_of_the_SSS, toffee, HellloooNewman

The deadline is 7:30 am PDT, Saturday, June 4. With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch, and 4 to no-lynch.

As ever, any issues, please let me know.

[toffee]

i would argue against the claim, but with the hider dead, hider tracker is confirmed town, no? although i still think it may be wise for ht to lay low unless they have a scum result. what does everyone think?

What we should do is have the Hider Tracker voting their scum result (if they have one) and trying to get their lynch through going that route first. If the Hider Tracker can successfully get a lynch through without claiming, then they can claim tomorrow and the town will be in a much better position.

Um, HT does have a scum result. Otherwise, I would not advocate him coming out.

Obviously, there is a small chance DG hid behind the vig, but that's unlikely and if that happens, they'll just both have to claim. It's worth it.

VOTE: toffee

This is an open setup, I think it should be pretty obvious, I do believe the HT got his result dead now. In this case, I'm w/ don, I prefer the HT stay to lay low.
There were 3 persons get shot last night, I'm quite sure the hider must be hid on one of the other 2. So, it's definitely a NO for HT claim.

Alright Amrun, what's actually your case against me? I still don't get it tbh.

What about toffee? Didn't you suspect him?

I do, and I think she would be a good alternative lynch for the awkward way she joined the DK wagon.

elaborate please..


Aaand VOTE: RedCoyote.
I still think your reason when voting chess was crap, you've dodge well though, made me see from another point of view w/ this Vig D1 lynch policy, but you wanting chess lynched while him being Vig was still a BIG doubt back then, still seems odd to me.

[smashbro_of_the_SSS]

Yeah, I'm going to go ahead and guess hider was being one of the two townies who died, since I'm not claiming, and I think only toffee is left.

as of now, I'm not convinced of Amrun-scum. to me, the case looks like it's just that Amrun voted for a lot of people. not realizing there was a hammer could just as easily have come from a townie who wasn't paying attention. The only thing else I see about Amrun is the asking about the hider tracker coming out today, but that's a reasonable statement, since the HT is now pretty much just a name claim. An Amrun-scum might say that to try and out the power unnecessarily, but I just don't see that.

... scratch that paragraph I just wrote. I'm going back through the game, and some posts are sticking out to me.

Okay, I'm willing to lynch DK for that.

Unvote; Vote: Deity Kabuto

We need more mod in this thread.

P-edit: who is scum on it, chesskid? I disagree.

obviously you're ok with the lynch. ok, that's fine, but just remember, in this ^^^ post, you're saying you are ready to lynch DK, meaning you're ready for the day to be over. but when we realized that it was a lynch, you post this post VVV

Guys, if that was the hammer, I apologize.

I really did not intend to end the day.

Hence why I requested more votecounts at least once or twice.

I should have done one myself before placing a vote.

wishy-washy much? you say you're ready to lynch, then once people start to say they're suspicious of you for it, you try to appease them.

I thought there were more votes still on toffee at the time.

I honestly don't care if I hammered DK, who is probscum.

But I do think there was more meat on the bone in this game day and I am annoyed that I may have hammered on accident.

oh, hey next post. would ya look at this? now, you're saying you're glad you lynched DK (as opposed to, say, not intending to end the day and seeming to regret the hammer with an apology). something else to note, you said you thought there were more votes on toffee at the time. But if you preferred the toffee lynch, why not push that? From this post, it sounds like you thought the toffee wagon had a decent number of people on it (about equal to the DK wagon I'm guessing). But toDay you said you went to vote DK because you felt like more people preferred the DK lynch. But thinking more people supported a DK lynch doesn't fit with thinking there was a sizeable toffee wagon. Why move from toffee to DK if you thought there were a decent number of people on the toffee wagon.

I read that as saying (if toffee is scum) "i want to bus my partner, but now that a townie is near lynch, I'll go vote him" or (if toffee is town) "the toffee wagon, supposed to be my top read, isn't going anywhere, but DK is near lynch, let's vote him"

vote: amrun

that hammer was scummy, and I don't like your explanations at all. and the chesskid kill fits, since he would have undoubtably been on the case of people who were at the end of the wagon, not to mention that you could frame Surye as possible scum who would benefit from chess' death


aside from that, I'm anxiously awaiting toffee's stance on what happened at night, and the wagons toDay. also, scott and dj, i really want to start seeing more from you. I'm thinking one of you is the last scum scum slot, and neither of you is looking particularly townie to me right now. step it up. post more. do move than vote.

[smashbro_of_the_SSS]

didn't see toffee's post in a preview for some reason. still suspicious of her, i got my eye on you, but i'm looking forward to seeing amrun and toffee interact today.

[Scott Brosius]

Alright I want this day to continue, but I did want to see how people reacted to attacks on Amrun before I claimed to get a feel for potential scum buddies.

I am the hider tracker. DH hid behind Amrun,

so that is one scum. 5 v 3, I would rather secure a scum lynch today as my powers are sapped (besides being essentially confirmed town). Let's discuss interactions with current players.

toffee- She has been all over toffee today. Toffee hasn't looked great, but this doesn't seem like a bus to me. Thinking town
RC- Comes in immediately voting Amrun. Going to also lean town.
zmuffin- Looks like distancing. Mentioned that Amrun should die, but at the hands of a vig. Doesn't seem genuine Leaning scum.
donjohnson- Completely ignoring Amrun, was also wagon happy yesterday. My best bet to me one of Amrun's partners.
smashbro- Comes in and votes Amrun with a post completely focused on her. Does not look like bussing. Probtown.
Newman- Also hasn't said much about Amrun, not much to go on

Town
smash
toffee
RC
Newman
zmuffin
donjohnson
SCUM

I am unvoting to prevent a quick hammer again and I want this day to continue

Unvote

[RedCoyote]

Damnit, Scott. We could've got her lynched without you coming out.

I can go with Muffin-Amrun-don though. For sure.

More later.

[don_johnson]

Unfortunately, im not scum.
Do u really think im avoiding the amrun wagon? Aside from your result I dont see the case as others do. Also, I agree with muffin that rc has been playing soft. Not sure what else I can do.

unvote

[zMuffinMan]

Unvote

Do you really think RC is not scum because he attacked Amrun?

If anything, his attack on Amrun and his #332 strengthen my scum read on him.

Look, think about it like this... What do don or I have to gain from "distancing" or "avoiding" the Amrun wagon? The hider died last night. It's very unlikely from the kills that he was hiding behind one of the townies that died (Surye softclaimed a PR and DH thought CK was town the entire D1). Scum know it's likely the hider hid on one of them. Even Amrun herself came out and said that. So why do you think it's more likely that scum wouldn't bus each other?

[zMuffinMan]

eh. Just look at this thread from the perspective that RC is scum with Amrun. Start with #273, where he clearly states Amrun needs to be held accountable for the hammer (and this should set off alarms for anyone who's actually reading between the lines here).

If RC isn't scum with Amrun, I'd be shocked.

[Amrun]

I'm the Vig.

I shot Surye.

I totally forgot he claimed. :/ I almost shot toffee but then I thought the hider would hide behind toffee and thought we might get two scum today.

I remembered the claim right before day opened up again but it was too late.

I apologize for my shitty play this game. I lost interest halfway through yesterday and I can't bring myself to find it again.

Lynch me or not. If you do, then I don't have to worry about this game anymore.

If you don't, hopefully my shot won't suck as much tonight.

[zMuffinMan]

So you're either an apathetic vig or scum trying to out the real vig. If you don't want to play, then replace out.

At this point I'd rather lynch RC and have the Amrun issue sorted with a NK.

[Amrun]

I am going to buckle down and play properly. But if I am not CC'ed, which I won't be unless scum try to get cheeky, then the choice is obvious.

[Scott Brosius]

Yeah you totally forgot the VC, you totally forgot the claim. Convenient and scummy. Giant AtE lynch me if you want garbage. Definitely have scum here.

The logic for not shooting toffee when he was clearly your top suspect yesterday is ridiculous with all that hider WIFOM.

5v3, there are a lot less town votes going around, scum don't need to bus.

I realize the wagon may have been plausible without my coming out, but i figured with 3/7 of the other players being scum, I didn't want to risk a quick lynch on somebody else and the potential for my information to go unheard.

[don_johnson]

No roleblocker types in this set up. Im not lynching without a cc. If amrun is vig then its smash, toffee, red coyote.

[zMuffinMan]

No roleblocker types in this set up. Im not lynching without a cc. If amrun is vig then its smash, toffee, red coyote.

Suspicions match mine, except sssssssss is in a grey area with newman at the moment.

I don't think Amrun should be lynched even if there is a cc. I'll assume Amrun is lying if a cc comes, but that will be sorted by NKs. I'd rather go with a RC/toffee lynch today. Preferrably RC.

VOTE: RedCoyote

[Amrun]

Scott was right to come out. It's just unfortunate that I'm vig and not scum.

[RedCoyote]

Amrun, you devious little minx! No one believes you're a Vig!

[Amrun]

I don't care if they believe me or not. It's true either way.

I'm embarrassed enough to admit it, after shooting Surye after a claim and FORGETTING about it. :/

That's how I knew chess was the scumkill, btw. I slipped up and the scum probably caught that so I was dead anyway.

[HellloooNewman]

@Muffin - Do I wish that DK had been scum? Obviously. Will I (or would I have) apologize? Never. DK played a shitty game and looked scum. I will never apologize for voting for/pushing for a lynch on the scummiest player. That was DK yesterday.

Now regarding the Amrun stuff. I was poised to pounce on her with the inconsistencies in her "okay with a DK lynch", "oops sorry guys" posts. Then, the HT comes out and Amrun claims VIG. Fucking ridiculous. Not so much the HT (although it wasn't needed at that point), but Amrun!!! If you are the vig, then you just cost us our NK. Good job.

I was seriously wary of Muffin after his first post. No more though. He is so town it is scary, and he has been making good points.

Strongest scumread of the day is RC. I have no problem placing a vote.

Vote RC

[Amrun]

What was I supposed to do? Let myself be lynched as vig? Lol

[zMuffinMan]

Yeah, regardless of whether Amrun is scum or real vig, she was going to claim Vig after SB came out with his result.

[don_johnson]

mod: vote count please

Im getting back on rc asap.

[Scott Brosius]

Now regarding the Amrun stuff. I was poised to pounce on her with the inconsistencies in her "okay with a DK lynch", "oops sorry guys" posts. Then, the HT comes out and Amrun claims VIG. Fucking ridiculous. Not so much the HT (although it wasn't needed at that point), but Amrun!!! If you are the vig, then you just cost us our NK. Good job.

.

Vote RC

How is it ridiculous? What else could she do? The only way (besides some ridiculous lying gambit on my part) that Amrun is not scum is if she's the vig. Of course she is going to claim that. Take simple probability here. There are 4 possible roles she could have. What makes more sense here. Someone sheeping every wagon, paying attention to some VC but conveniently not when hammering, claiming to have forgot about surye's PR softclaim yet still vigging him even though she was clearly on toffee yesterday, or that all of that is true and that somehow the hider hid behind the vig.

I think the real vig should claim (as I am 99.9% sure Amrun is full of it). Let's go through a scenario.

Player X ccs vig. Amrun is almost certainly scum. Lynch Amrun. 3vt 1ht 1vig 2scum

Vote: Amrun

Vig shoots, Scum has to shoot either vig or me, probably vig to protect themselves from future kills. 2 possibilities 2vt 1confirmed town 2 scum or 3vt 1 confirmed town 1 scum.

If we somehow don't lynch Amrun today and the vig doesn't shoot her tonight, I will never play this game again.

Anyway, I also don't really see the case on RC. Would someone mind summarizing?