Wizards at the Sorcerers' Den - Endgame

[WrathChild]

Already made a stance on Amrun and had a vote on Beefster before I switched over to SGR again. Try reading my ISO. Do you think I was arguing mechanics with SGR just for fun? No, I legitimately thought it was a scummy/sucky plan and was attacking him for it (scumhunting).

I still don't think it's as obvious that claim=die is a game mechanic as certain people seem to think, but upon my re-read, I'm also not too proud to accept the fact that it may very well be.

I'll re-read Bunny Lover and get back to you on that.

[IceyCupcake]

Icey, you considered Bunnylover town based on his first two posts, what up with that? Not saying he's Mafia, just don't see how anyone would read town from those two posts.

That'd be Katsuki. And... yeah, those two posts are really town. I didn't like some of the later stuff, but anyone who takes town's word like that day 1 and calls for doctor protects are usually town. Not that I suggest the doctor protect, put it on one of the masons for gods sake (at least if we die it'll end this third party speculation nonsense), but scum usually go role fishing.

Okay, un FOSing Bunny

WHICH STILL DON'T MAKE YOU TOWN AMRUN

SCUMBAG

ALSO I'M NOT READING ALL THIS SETUP CRAP SO IF ITS SOMEWHERE IN THAT MESS I'M NEVER FINDING IT JESUS CHRIST

[Zdenek]

Zdenek: Null. I flip flop on him a little. Overall, he has said very little, and I dislike his "placeholder vote." He has no suspects besides the lurker, really? But I liked the things he saw in Pine that he found scummy - because I found those same things scummy. Pine wasn't scum, so this drops back to null since I dislike some other things he has said.

While she calls me null to her at the end of this, her points against me go from vague (I dislike some of the things he's said) to false (he has no suspects besides the lurker). Shocking that I'd be null to someone who's not reading my posts.

Because she's getting quite a bit of attention, I've played with town RBT twice before, and her play was basically the same as this, so while I'm bothered by her because playing like this it will be hard to get a read on her, I don't find her play overly suspicious.

Current suspects who aren't lurkers: gandalf (too much set-up recently), Amrun, WrathChild, Implosion (has no suspects), Beefster.

In the hopes that we are going with IceyC's vigging plan.

Unvote
Vote Amrun

[Amrun]

You hadn't expressed those suspects. And when you unvoted Pine, you put a placeholder vote on a lurker, which told me you had no serious supects.

Either way, you're null, and if I had to pick, I'd say town.

Your votes are weak weak weak though.

[WrathChild]

After reading Bunny's ISO, I don't see anything particularly scummy, but I also don't see any real effort by Bunny to do anything productive. It's pretty hard to get a read off of 7 posts (let alone 2, like certain people seem to have done in this case).

[Zdenek]

You hadn't expressed those suspects. And when you unvoted Pine, you put a placeholder vote on a lurker, which told me you had no serious supects.

Either way, you're null, and if I had to pick, I'd say town.

Your votes are weak weak weak though.

When you made that post, I'd expressed suspicion of you, beefster and WrathChild already.

I think Snake is a great candidate for scum, but hopefully if he keeps lurking, he gets vigged.

[Amrun]

I was talking about the time you made the placeholder vote, not now.

Anyone that thinks both Beefster and I are scum seriously needs their head checked.

[gandalf5166]

Zdenek, I just thought you should know that I always setup speculate a little than most people think is normal for town. You can ask the other people in this game that I've played with.

[Amrun]

That poost of. Gandalf's is giving me seriously bad vibes.

[Bunnylover]

This whole talk about mod kill and etc should really stop. It makes my reading slower and makes me not want to read the thread so I'll miss something that I should have picked up on >_<.
Anyways I'm getting a town read on SGR.
Chesskid is chesskid, therefore null.
I haven't really seen anything that I can question, attack, defend against or anything in this thread mainly because 20 of these pages are focusing on if Pine was MK or not.
Although if we are going to go after a lurker, I wouldn't pick RBT to go after. If memory calls correct, the last game with her she did the exact same thing (lurk hard) and still flipped town. I would at least let some kinda damage role take her out.
And I don't remember the other lurkers. Where is ABR by the way?

[gandalf5166]

That poost of. Gandalf's is giving me seriously bad vibes.

Eh. I just figured he should know.

[Katy]

If you don't know, then why did you unvote mana?

Because:

I am going to make my guess at what you are referring to by doing this

after which I originally had voted, but then I added in another sentence so it wasn't really clear.

That vote was me guessing what people were referring to with Chesskid without saying anything out loud. I guess I was right.

This modkill back and forth is really pointless and it's raising my hackles.

@Wrathchild

: Why is this issue so important to you? The plan was killed in the water by the mod before you even started arguing about it. A bad plan isn't scummy, and I tend to think that trying to create strategies is something town players do more than scum (even if they are bad strategies) because it's really hard to successfully make a fake plan as scum that doesn't hurt you somehow. Even if you think it's scummy you are generating a lot of really distracting noise in the thread that makes it hard to read for relevant info.

[Beefster]

You also know perfectly well that Soben asked for my opinoin on those three players individually.

I do? It didn't look like a direct response to me.

[Beefster]

Beefster makes shitty attacks on me all day, I tell him they're shitty, and I'm scum? Okay.

Methinks you should re-evaluate your stance.

You're scum because you have never responded in a genuinely townie way. Your reactions have all appeared deliberate and fabricated.

[chesskid3]

>the mason is null
>my fucking face

[CryMeARiver]

ITT only amrun has eyes.

Wow.
Can't believe I missed it.

Unvote; Vote WC

for now

[Beefster]

Wraith has already given his reads on me and Beefster, Icey. Try reading.

This is vaguely a scum slip- it's definitely a stretch. Proceed with caution...
Typically, townies don't read very meticulously because they just need to go with gut reads and the gist of things. Scum tend to be more observant- and they tend to nitpick.

I, for one, have not been reading closely. Take my words with caution. It's not a catch-all rule by any means.

[CryMeARiver]

to clarify

I have 100% accurate mod given info that Mana is aligned with the sorcerers.

Have a nice day.

Pedit:
FUck off, asshole

Damnit! No!
I saw it before I saw this post! Just saying! I also think I saw something else but I'll hold back.

Oh. Nice. You're voting WC too. Bueno.

[Beefster]

@Wrathchild: If you're confident that the attack won't affect everyone indeterminately, then make an obvious fakeclaim. If you die, then we know to outright not claim.
Not that it REALLY matters. We could just scumhunt the normal way. Since all of us

should

have damaging spells (according to ABR), we can take advantage of that instead of abusing some random guy's role/ a mechanic. (I don't care which it is, honestly)

[CryMeARiver]

@SGR
-CMAR's argument was that scum wouldn't prolong the RVS as it draws too much attention. In other words, they wouldn't do it as it's seen as scummy. So everyone daring to take that risk of being declared as scummy, is town to him. How's that not the 'too scummy to be scum' - fallacy (Though it comes down to only one argument)
-I'm from the generation who believes something is a joke when the signs are there. So yeah, I'm taking your explanation lightly.

Thought I responded to this, but ISO'd myself and I didn't.

The thought was not that it's too scummy to be scum or that scum don't want to draw attention. The thought is purely that scum generally care more about the game early and that prolonging RVS is not a scumtell.

[Amrun]

Is no one really seeing what I am seeing with chesskid?

I'm not, but to be fair I haven't been making a particular effort to read into chesskids posts, I normally just judge him as obvtown or null.

Amrum, while you're online there's a few people I want your opinion on, they include Zdenek, Manu_Ku and Wrathchild.

This is post 45. Post 46 is my reads of those 3 players for Soben.
But that's not a response?

Beefster, reading the thread is not a scumtell and you're retarded and/or scummy for saying so.

All good town read the thread, looking for scum. It's something you ought to try emulating, even though you're scum.

Being town is not an excuse to not read the thread.

ITT I am called scum for reading the game. Smh

[IceyCupcake]

This whole talk about mod kill and etc should really stop. It makes my reading slower and makes me not want to read the thread so I'll miss something that I should have picked up on >_<.
Anyways I'm getting a town read on SGR.
Chesskid is chesskid, therefore null.
I haven't really seen anything that I can question, attack, defend against or anything in this thread mainly because 20 of these pages are focusing on if Pine was MK or not.
Although if we are going to go after a lurker, I wouldn't pick RBT to go after. If memory calls correct, the last game with her she did the exact same thing (lurk hard) and still flipped town. I would at least let some kinda damage role take her out.
And I don't remember the other lurkers. Where is ABR by the way?

No I've explained why this RBT is scummy as hell. Also if you don't think the fact you DON'T FUCKING REMEMBER anyone on my lurker list for people we should kill the hell out is a bad sign, I am HIGHLY dissapointed.

The claimed mason is null? Are you like... high?

Bunny, this post was bad. I take back my town read and Katsuki's too, just for this. Even if I have to argue with Katsuki over it.

[WrathChild]

@Katy: The issue that was important to me was that I felt SGR knew that claiming did not necessarily result in death when he devised this plan in order to get people to claim or get mislynched when they don't die as a result of the claim. I thought this because of certain aspects of certain abilities I have that would succeed/fail based on what certain claimed aspects were. Since then, I re-read the quasi-opening post where Vampire McRandom died and am not convinced that I was correct and backed down in post #725.

@CMR: Just trying out a new wagon or do you actually have a reason to vote for me?

@Beef #741: Wait, you are advocating townies that don't read carefully, even admitting to not reading carefully yourself? Heck, I've missed a few things things in this game and gone back and caught them on subsequent passes, but still would never suggest that not-reading carefully is a town-tell. It's your responsibility as town to read carefully. Just take my whole last debate about Pine's death and SGR's plan, I didn't read the vampire death scene carefully because I usually skim flavor and it lead to a huge distraction. Such a distraction is not helpful to town (maybe it will end up providing some sort of info later as a discussion point), I made a mistake. The bottom line is not-reading carefully = bad for town.

@Beef #743: It's quite clear that you're not reading carefully, because in Post #725 I state that I am NOT confident the Claim = Death is not a mechanic.

UNVOTE

[Amrun]

You should put your vote back on beefster.

[WrathChild]

I probably will, but I wanted to see how he responded ti my post above.