Open 307-Friends and Enemies Deadly Alliance-Town Wins!!

[[Low Key]]

Sorry to have post this but when I said Chkflip would hammer I meant express his desire to hammer of course so we can vig DK.

[[Low Key]]

Maybe if the one-shot were to claim on D3, when we can decide for them who to kill, as a second vote?

Ok, so I guess I just misunderstood. You're saying we should just wait and use the vig shot on D3 then?

@CJ: You failed to answer this question.

[cjdrum]

I guess so, or on D2 or something.

I would like the DayKill to be thought out and voted on separately as if it were a second lynch, rather than nearly lynching someone, vigging them and rushing a new lynch before deadline.

[[Low Key]]

Now, how does two rushed Town deaths on D1

not

hurt the Town, huh?

Finally, what's wrong with two, more thought out wagons on D2?

How do the wagons on day 2 become any less "rushed"?

Your argument fails here because you say two wagons are wrong because they are "rushed" while denying the following beneifts:

1) Two lynches for the town before night, the second being far more informed than the first which causes the scum to scramble harder
2) Proving if the town or the scum have the vig
3) Preventing the night death of the (town) vig before they can shoot

The idea of a town directed vig shot being bad for town because it causes "rushed" wagons is an inadequate and anti-town argument.

We have covered this thought earlier but you did not respond...

[cjdrum]

If the Vig shoots DK. All 6 votes on DK will be lost. Town then must fit a full lynch before deadline.

If not. We lynch DK. Scum kill someone (

possibly

the vig). We make lynch and DayKill decision based on DK + NK flips, with the full Day length to do it.

As for your 1), 2), 3):
2) Is wrong, because of possible scum WIFOM and that.
3) Again, unlikely, and if/when DK flips Town we won't be needing it so much anyway.
1) Can be done even if it is done D2.

[Parabollocks]

VOTE: Toro

No.

[[Low Key]]

If the Vig shoots DK. All 6 votes on DK will be lost. Town then must fit a full lynch before deadline.

The votes are not lost. They are part of the record for the wagon analysis and we have plenty of time at this point to get it done.

If not. We lynch DK. Scum kill someone (

possibly

the vig). We make lynch and DayKill decision based on DK + NK flips, with the full Day length to do it.

So with this plan do the scum have the vig or the town?

As for your 1), 2), 3):
2) Is wrong, because of possible scum WIFOM and that.
3) Again, unlikely, and if/when DK flips Town we won't be needing it so much anyway.
1) Can be done even if it is done D2.

2) Scum WIFOM?? Either we force the scum to do our bidding or force them to prove they have the vig. How is that WIFOM?

3) You say its unlikely but you have understated the odds. The scum will not be NK-ing at random.

if/when DK flips Town we won't be needing it so much anyway.

We won't need the vig anyway?? What do you mean??

[zMuffinMan]

What really doesn't sit well with me about the DK wagon is the people on it.

There's got to be 2 scum on it, and since I have town reads on 3 of the players not on the wagon, the only possible off-wagon scum I'm considering are cj/chk(dj) and I think only one of them is scum.

Toro makes sense as scum. LK, spad and Arch also make sense. Snake is just meh. Snarky is less suspicious purely because he put effort into making a case, and as much as I disagree with it, I can see where he's coming from.

[[Low Key]]

I agree there is at least one scum on the wagon. I disagree there has to be two.

[[Low Key]]

I think we can agree there are two groups, on the wagon and off, and that there are scum to be found in both groups. I also think DK's flip will help this analysis tremendously.

[[Low Key]]

The ultimate point is that we do not know DK's alignment. If he flips scum I might even believe there are no scum on his wagon but this will have to be verified with actual analysis.

[zMuffinMan]

Yeah, but that's the thing. Looking at the people on his wagon, I know that he's not going to flip scum. The fact I have a town read on him doesn't even weigh in now. That wagon has 2 scum on it.

Also you know why I think your reasons 5-7 for lynching DK are absolute bullshit, so don't tell me that you've given 4 good reasons to lynch him.

[[Low Key]]

I already know you don't agree Muffin and that's fine. I also know how you roll on determining scum tells (they only count if you personally think the person is scum otherwise they are just misinterpretations or just not scummy at all).

5-7 is not BS its simple math. I get it you just disagree. Don't worry I'm not trying to change your mind.

[[Low Key]]

Look we both have proven we can wall and I don't really think now is the time for it. There may be a time where it will be unavoidable but that just isn't right now ok?

[[Low Key]]

Lets just flip DK and be done with it.

[zMuffinMan]

I got a better idea. Vig vigges Toro, and if I'm right about Toro, you get off the DK wagon.

How's that sound?

[[Low Key]]

I've thought of this and since you suggested it, I am fine with it.

[Parabollocks]

I got a better idea. Vig vigges Toro, and if I'm right about Toro, you get off the DK wagon.

How's that sound?

^this.

[[Low Key]]

@Muffin: Your post #357 made me go: O_o

[[Low Key]]

Based on Chkflp's posting schedules, he is able to post in the afternoons and so I hope he can catch up this afternoon for us.

[zMuffinMan]

I'm not good with emoticons. Going to need a little bit more than that if you actually want me to respond to something about my #357, although I am interested in how you made that face at all. It it's a birth defect or something, I apologise for prying.

[[Low Key]]

Well I was suprised I was on the list but I didn't expect you would respond, no.

[[Low Key]]

I think by the end of the day I am going to agree with very much of your analysis if I am reading it correctly.

[[Low Key]]

The way I see it, the best thing we can do today is nail two scum TODAY and I'm all for it.

[Toro]

The way I see it, the best thing we can do today is nail two scum TODAY and I'm all for it.

Isn't that the best thing we could possibly do today anyways?