Wizards at the Sorcerers' Den - Endgame

[Albert B. Rampage]

Unless you think we're bussing each other?

Where did I call you both scum? Same deal as before, if you can quote it I can unvote it.

[Amrun]

You call us both scummy, ie scum. Is there some nuanced difference there that I'm not seeing?

[Albert B. Rampage]

Where did I call Beefster scummy?

[Amrun]

Again as clarification, you call me explicitly scummy and vote me.

You explain why Beefster is scummy and explicitly do not have a townread on him.

"This is what bothers me about him" implies scumminess.

Why are you playing word games? Why not just be frank?

[Albert B. Rampage]

I'm asking questions. It's called scumhunting, dear.

[Amrun]

I asked you a couple of questions you missed/ignored as well.

p-edit: How does being obtuse aid in scumhunting?

Do you find Beefster scummy or not?

[Soben]

Who the hell is Soben?

Regfan and Scumhunter. You've played with us both before.

I had a disucssion with S not too long ago, and we've gone over all our reads, I should have them up in a few hours or tommorow morning latest. I've been doing some reading into Amrums meta, her scum games are Open 298 and Execution Mafia and her play lacks any ressemblence to either of those games, that couped with the fact some of her recent posts read as town-tells means that an Amrum lynch is not the way to progress today.

Unvote, Vote: LMP

[Amrun]

I was definitely town in Open 298.

My scum games are Execution Mafia, New Designers Mafia, and X-Files Mafia, in order of most recent to least recent.

[Soben]

I was definitely town in Open 298.

I'm going to get an incredible amount of shit from gorilla then, I told him you were most certaintly scum when he replaced out of the game.

[Amrun]

gorilla wasn't in that game...

If you're talking about chesskid's mini normal, then I was town in that, too.

[Soben]

gorilla wasn't in that game...

If you're talking about chesskid's mini normal, then I was town in that, too.

Wow. I really do need to head to bed. Going to have a discussion with S when I wake up, want to see what he thinks about your meta. Going to

Unvote

for now because I'm feeling incredibly stupid.

[Riceballtail]

My interest was sparked, but I've been beating the same horse for awhile now and now my interest is waning. That is the natural progression of such things.

Unacceptable reason to give up on your case. If LMP were dead, I'd vote you. I'll probably end up doing it anyway.

[Mana_Ku]

Claim mason from chesskid = WIFOM. If anyone else had hinted at them been mason, I probably would have taken it more seriously, but since its chesskid......can you take a lot of what he says seriously? Basically im not sure if he was serious or not, which it doesn't matter as I probably wouldn't lynch CK3 today regardless if he is a mason or not.

I've confirmed it ._. Normally, I wouldn't have liked it, had Chess played like that. But he had a good reason to do so.

After the recent posts, two new players stood out to me. One is lucky that he/she read town to me at the start. The other though...
Chess, we need to talk ._.

[Dry-fit]

Beefster what good do you expect it to do to constantly tell us that you're town?

Post #611 by Dry-Fit - Lets get this right, you believe RBT doesn't look good and that you don't like Snake due to lack of contribution however you: 1) Add no contribution yourself. 2) Don't vote either of them.

Adding no contribution is debatable, but fine. I didn't vote either of them because SGR was still my top suspect.

Would really like to hear more from SnakePlissken, not liking his contribution so far.

Laughed. And it was out loud.

Yeah I was just kiddin'. Snake's stuff has been top notch so far.

Would really like to hear more from SnakePlissken, not liking his contribution so far.

This coming from a person who has three posts in the entire game.

Great point.

Survey says LMP is the winner for now. Soben still ranks high on my scumdar.

UNVOTE; VOTE:LMP

Unacceptable reason to give up on your case. If LMP were dead, I'd vote you. I'll probably end up doing it anyway.

Because you have such a strong case on LMP...

Unvote. Vote: Riceballtail.

[LimMePls]

Holy shit. I missed one day and there are 9 unread pages. Catching up now.

[LimMePls]

I don't think the claim-lynch strategy will work. I really doubt anyone else will claim now that we are sure it's a bad idea. It's just as easy for a townie to fakeclaim as scum. If it also happens to apply to fakeclaims, then we still won't get anywhere and we'll have mislynched way more than necessary.

It's still a cool idea nonetheless- it just doesn't work in practice.

AKA: Please don't try that plan guys, it's really bad for us scumz.

Post #507 by LMP - Our slot isn't in your reads list, also can you explain your implosion town-read?

Weird. You'll be in the next one. As for implosion, it was mainly just my read of the slot from the early game play. I have recent town-implosion experience (Cyclic Experimentation in my ISO) and he reads the same way to me here.

I 100% endorse Katy #628.

Katy, what do you think of the possibility of Beefster + Amrun both being scum? I know when I decide to bus sometimes I have an unhealthy obsession with winning the bussing battle and getting my partner lynched over me XD That could explain the fishing for support that goes past normal scumhunting in this case. Both Regfan and I have Amrun as one of our top suspects and he is leaning scum on Beef as well, while I am more null on Beef at the moment. Just a theory, haven't looked into it enough to know if this is plausible or likely.

The Beefster/Amrun interactions don't read like a bus to me at all.

I agree with Gandalf about his opinion regarding the 'let us use this ability in favor for us'
The only other part that is interesting about these pages is LMP's change of opinion about SGR. SGR later admits that his 'plan' was actually a joke. Does this change your opinion on SGR and why?

Nope. It still makes me think he's idiot-town. Scum wouldn't have joked about that.

As for your other "problems" with me, I dont' know what to tell you other than I have no fucking clue what you're going on about.

@LMP: Where you being sarcastic when you said that unlimited mislynches is a good thing? When you said SGR's plan was so towny it hurt?

Nope. Do you not understand that if we had unlimited mislynched in a single day then we get to control all the killing as a town, and scum get no NKs? How can you possibly not see how that would be ridiculously town sided? We could literally mow multiple VIs before getting a guaranteed scum lynch. That would be so fucking awesome for town it would be sick.

No shit we aren't doing the plan because it's a terribad idea. You are trying to justify forced claiming and countless mislynches. Yeah we lynch scum after one "mislynch"... great, but what about after two or three or four. On top of that your threatening our power roles. And on top of THAT, you don't even know if that's what got Pine killed, so you're going to be pushing a lynch on someone who claims but doesn't get mod-killed probably based on coincidence more than evidence.

Maybe Pine had a posting restriction he violated and was killed because of that instead of his claim.

It was an awful and scummy plan and that's why we should lynch you.

WC, you're either being an idiot or scum. You couldn't be more wrong about this.

Also, does nobody find it interesting that Beefster comments about Amrun posting town reads, when that was a request?

I don't like it when people make a post of only town and null reads. C'mon, there's got to be some scum reads to show the rest of the class...

Beefster is reaching for anything he can to distract from his wagon. And the stretch is SCARY.

[quote="Beefster"}This is vaguely a scum slip- it's definitely a stretch. Proceed with caution...[/quote]

LULZ!

I do not get the ABR defense of Beefster at all. The back and forth with Amrun the last 2 pages is all noise with nothing useful.

[Snow_Bunny]

Votecount

1- CryMeARiver

[Healthy]

(0)
2- gandalf5166

[Healthy]

(1) - inHimshallibe
3- chesskid3

[Healthy]

(0) -
4- Albert B. Rampage

[Healthy]

(0) -
5- Riceballtail

[Healthy]

(1) - Dryfit
6- Katy

[Healthy]

(0)
7- Bunnylover

[Healthy]

(0) -
8- IceyCupcake

[Healthy]

(0)
9- Amrun

[Healthy]

(3) - Zdenek, ABR, Beefster
10- Dry-fit

[Healthy]

(0)
11- SnakePlissken

[Healthy]

(0) -
12- WrathChild

[Healthy]

(1) - chesskid3,
13- Soben

[Healthy]

(2) - implosion, SnakePlissken
14- Beefster

[Healthy]

(5) - Amrun, LynchMePls, ManaKu, BabySpice, gandalf5166
15- PeregrineV

[Healthy]

(0)
16- BabySpice

[Healthy]

(0) -
17- LynchMePls

[Healthy]

(1) - Riceballtail
18- Zdenek

[Healthy]

(0)
19- Mana_Ku

[Healthy]

(0) -
20- inHimshallibe

[Healthy]

(1) - Feysal
21- SGRaaize

[Healthy]

(0) -
22- implosion

[Healthy]

(2) - SGRaaize, Katy
23- Feysal

[Healthy]

(0)
Mod- Snow_Bunny

[Healthy]

(1) - Bunnylover

Not voting (5): PeregrineV, WrathChild, IceyCupcake, CryMeARiver, Soben

With 23 alive, it takes 12 to lynch.

Deadline is on June 9th at midnight (GMT -5)

[Riceballtail]

@Dry: Have you SEEN my case on LMP? It's amazing. Too bad you're all over one of my favorite tells too.

[Snow_Bunny]

No, I haven't. Should I?

[Beefster]

Beefster, do you agree with Amrun's assessments of your play?

More or less. I'm not so much proud of it as I have simply accepted it as fact and moved on.

I still don't like how he backed off my wagon.

[Beefster]

I was definitely town in Open 298.

My scum games are Execution Mafia, New Designers Mafia, and X-Files Mafia, in order of most recent to least recent.

The way you stated this is reminiscent of the gambler's fallacy. (You suggest that because you were scum in so many games, you couldn't

possibly

be scum again.) Were you town in any other games?

I'm not liking your reactions to ABR's questions. You really look like you're trying to hide something. Your responses are far to deliberate and un-genuine.

[Beefster]

I don't think the claim-lynch strategy will work. I really doubt anyone else will claim now that we are sure it's a bad idea. It's just as easy for a townie to fakeclaim as scum. If it also happens to apply to fakeclaims, then we still won't get anywhere and we'll have mislynched way more than necessary.

It's still a cool idea nonetheless- it just doesn't work in practice.

AKA: Please don't try that plan guys, it's really bad for us scumz.

No. It just doesn't work. Keep in mind that we have nightkills, too. Nights will be more productive than wild goose chasing with a plan that may not necessarily work. If you attack the player with the role that enables the claim-kill, then the method won't work anymore.
I'm telling you, it will lead to more mislynches than scum lynches.

Also, does nobody find it interesting that Beefster comments about Amrun posting town reads, when that was a request?

I don't like it when people make a post of only town and null reads. C'mon, there's got to be some scum reads to show the rest of the class...

Beefster is reaching for anything he can to distract from his wagon. And the stretch is SCARY.

This is vaguely a scum slip- it's definitely a stretch. Proceed with caution...

I like to point out obscure things. You can interpret it however you want; it just gives me peace of mind to bring up obscure things no matter how ridiculous they are.

I like taking a look at the situation from angles nobody else is willing. Every game needs a good VI. It gets me lynched about half the time, but I really don't care. When I flip town, you will be looking back at some of my posts and say, "y'know, this might sound crazy, but I think Beef had a good point back there."

I do not get the ABR defense of Beefster at all. The back and forth with Amrun the last 2 pages is all noise with nothing useful.

For the record: ABR is not technically defending me. He's questioning Amrun because he doesn't like her case on me.

[gandalf5166]

That is NOT gamblers' fallacy. He's giving you meta to look at. You are NOT this stupid.

[PeregrineV]

Not yet caught up but still here. Will be catching up and posting the rest of the day.

[Zdenek]

I was talking about the time you made the placeholder vote, not now.

I'm reading Amrun's actions as: someone asked her to give an opinion about me, she went to my ISO, found one post to complain about (which wasn't even my most recent post at the time), and then said that I am null to her to avoid confrontation.

Now, she's said that if she had to pick, she would go with town, which is great and all, but it feels like another attempt to avoid confrontation.

his is vaguely a scum slip- it's definitely a stretch. Proceed with caution...
Typically, townies don't read very meticulously because they just need to go with gut reads and the gist of things. Scum tend to be more observant- and they tend to nitpick.

I, for one, have not been reading closely. Take my words with caution. It's not a catch-all rule by any means.

This is terrible because town nit-picks and he tries to write of his not reading the thread closely as a town-tell.

I just read something that makes me think you're town.

Will you say what?

I am starting to doubt a little and have Beefster as possibly bad town. I'm not sure yet.

What exactly was making you doubt him as scum?