Open 304 - Hard Boiled, Game Over. Was DY's Dystopia saved?

[zMuffinMan]

and er

@don

Why did you vote-hop between RC->Amrun->RC?

[don_johnson]

My frustration with brosius. Only after I votes amrun did he concede my point that amrun does not need to be lynched.

Rc: very predictable. Vote stays.

[Amrun]

VOTE: don_johnson

Those vote hops are terrible. If he doesn't die today, I'm shooting him tonight.

[HellloooNewman]

Yeah, as though you'll live through the night to kill anyone. That is why I said it was dumb for you to claim needlessly.

[Amrun]

LloNewman, you may have been dropped on your head.

If I had not claimed, I would have been lynched nno question.

Even if I die tonight, I'll still kill someone.

Are you quite sure you know how this game works?

[don_johnson]

why are they "terrible"? i have a history playing with brosius. he's a good scumhunter and him touting amrun as 99% scum means he's pretty sure. plus, he implied he would not be open to lynching anyone but amrun. i made the point that amrun would get vig'd tonight if he was lying. once brosius acknowledged that i went back to my NUMBER ONE SUSPECT. there's nothing odd about that. but whatever. lynch me or vig me. if i have to go then i'll go. would much rather be shot and see red coyote lynched. if you lynch me, will you please shoot red coyote?

[Amrun]

I won't be shooting red.

I initially read your switch to me as a protection of redcoyote, but red's defense was good. It swayed me. He noticed the exact thing about you I noticed and also about Newman.

If RC is scum, he's bussing one of his buddies (you) and possibly one more, but likely ssbf would be the other, if so.

Not totally convinced rc isn't scum, but I'd rather see a don lynch today.

I'll be shooting one of toffee or don tonight, regardless.

[don_johnson]

whatevz. RC is scum. muffin laid out the rc case just about perfectly. his suspicions matched mine. i'm confident he's town. so accusations of "buddying" do not intimidate me.

I initially read your switch to me as a protection of redcoyote, but red's defense was good. It swayed me. He noticed the exact thing about you I noticed and also about Newman.

uh, what did he notice about me? are you referring to his giant OMGUS vote? you know, the one he laid down after doing absolutely nothing for the entire game? the one he laid down after his suspects turned up most likely town? my switch to you had nothing to do with red. it was because brosius seemed intent on pushing your lynch above all else even when it was so obvious to me that rc was scum. you weren't counterclaimed and brosius wanted to lynch you. that's completely assanine. if you are lying you'll be vig'd tonight, so brosius, imo, was being entirely irrational. i was pissed. when brosius conceded the point, i moved back to my original suspect. if i am scum, who are my partners? toffee and newman? smasbro? seriously dude, i'll lynch anyone over me today out of that scummy pool, but i would prefer to lynch RC. i have no issue whatsoever taking a bullet tonight if we get a scum lynch.

RC still hasn't done anything. his posts are fluff. try reading them. he's just rambling on about shit that has nothing to do with whose scum and why. has RC even given a reason for his vote on me? he posted a bunch of shit and a wall of wuotes and then wrote: vote don because he's the slickest of the three. OMGUS. OMGUS. OMGUS. nothing more.

[Amrun]

All that post said to me was: "I did not even try to read red's posts today."

If red were OMGUSing, he'd vote for muffin.

[Amrun]

I still don't buy your explanation of your switch to me.

If it didn't mae sense, why switch?

[don_johnson]

mod: vote count please

I can do that.

Day Two, Votecount the Second

toffee (1): Amrun
Amrun (3): Scott Brosius, RedCoyote, Smashbro_of_the_SSS
RedCoyote (3): zMuffinMan, toffee, HellloooNewman
Not Voting (1): don_johnson

The deadline is 7:30 am PDT, Saturday, June 4. With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch, and 4 to no-lynch.

As ever, any issues, please let me know.

try using your brain. i move to your wagon and place you at L-1. your wagon consists of:

Scott Brosius, RedCoyote, Smashbro_of_the_SSS, don_johnson

why would i unvote you? if you are the vig and i am scum, then i can only be scum with sss and rc. if not, then my third(or both) partner(s) are off the wagon. which means all they need to do is come in and hammer the fucking vig. thats a scumtastic oppurtunity. no way i unvote you in that situation if i am scum(unless i am scum with rc and smash). if i am scum with rc and smash, then you should have no problem lynching RC. i've already offered to take a bullet if RC flips scum. think this one through. my vote on you was out of my personal frustration with brosius. i even allude to it in my vote post.

Hooray lets rush the day again! don is so obviously Amrun's partner. The way RC addressed Amrun does not read as bussing to me. Given that I am 99.9% sure Amrun is scum, I am not voting for RC. From my brief read over it looks like lack of content? And voting for CK?

scotts whole reason for voting me is because he thinks you are scum and that i am your partner. if you can't see this, then i can't help you. no way does scumdj let unvote the vig from L-1 with at least one partner lurking off the wagon. especially not when the only "confirmed" townie is touting said vig as 99.9% scum.

so, to summarize:

scott votes don for being amruns partner.
coyote votes don because he's "the slickest of the three".
amrun votes don for getting off the vig wagon at L-1 to move his vote to one of the players who would most likely be his partner in that scenario.

looks like a great wagon.[/sarcasm]

[don_johnson]

i also unvote

immediately

after brosius concedes my point. please explain how any of that benefits scumdon?

[Amrun]

Getting a mislynch on me, buddying conftown Scott Brosius, moving a lynch off of your scumbuddy RC. Any of the above.

I need to think some more and re-read some things.

[don_johnson]

Getting a mislynch on me,

uh, i unvoted you at L-1. i effectively neutered any chance of a mislynch.

buddying conftown Scott Brosius,

how am i "buddying" him? he's playing like a jackass.

moving a lynch off of your scumbuddy RC.

i'm voting to lynch RC.

I need to think some more and re-read some things.

thats obvious.

[Amrun]

I still think you make sense as scum.

I'm okay with an rc lynch today even though he's likely town because it will tell us several things and bring us closer to finding scum.

Toffee lynch = best

[zMuffinMan]

try using your brain. i move to your wagon and place you at L-1. your wagon consists of:

Scott Brosius, RedCoyote, Smashbro_of_the_SSS, don_johnson

This actually is a good point. If don's buddy was off-wagon and Amrun is really vig, he had no reason to unvote (mislynch vig = game over). Which means if don is scum, his partners need to be on the wagon.

Also believe his explanation.

I will go into more detail on this later, but don is a bad lynch today.

[zMuffinMan]

Actually, never mind. Not going to start doubting myself now. I don't need to re-read anything.

don is town, scott is town, amrun is prob-vig.

toffee and RC need to die before tomorrow.

remaining scum is one of newman and smash.

VOTE: RedCoyote

[RedCoyote]

The major issue I have with your play (that you still haven't addressed in a way that I think is adequate) is the lack of reads from you in this game.

Did I mention you were a very literal person, Muffin? Heh, just want to throw that out there again. I don't know what you want me to say here. My reads are pretty apparent to me: I didn't like DK, toffee, chess, Surye (pre-claim), and then Amrun at the very end of the day, and I liked SSSS, DH, and HN. I mean, if me voting DK, toffee, and chess doesn't tell you that I suspected them, if me literally saying things like I agree with DH's DK suspicions, SSSS is making solid posts, I like HN's pressuring DK, and that I like DH's pressuring of Surye, then I don't know what else would've done the trick. I mean, if I thought HN or DH were scum at that point, I wouldn't be giving them props and agree with the things they say.

Then again, I guess I can't match great townie posts like the ones don gives (this is sarcasm).

And I know you know this, because you asked toffee to give a

clear

read on DK. But you never gave clear reads of your own.

That's a whole different situation altogether. toffee constantly referred back to DK's meta that none of us knew about. I never used meta to form my reads. I mean, none of my reads are unclear.

Also, your questioning of players in the game fits the bill of scum not wanting to properly engage anyone, but still wanting to appear to be scum hunting (essentially coasting).

Who did I not engage? Or "properly" engage?

Why didn't you mention this town read before now?

For one, I already said multiple times that I liked SSSS's posts and his questions. Two, I mean, it's just common sense. If I don't think he's in the scumteam... You're acting as though I'm trying to hide these things from everyone. I'm not hiding anything. If I suspected SSSS more than someone else, I'd be after him. Three, he's not posting, so there's not exactly any room for updating anything either. I don't have a reason to bring him up unless the discussion happens to refer back to him.

The problem here is, if you're town, it's your job to convince the rest of us to vote with you.

I went back and looked at this, and you specifically asked me why

I

was voting for don. I gave you an answer.

I know I have to convince others to vote with me; this isn't my first rodeo. You're being unfair though in asking me why I'm voting don over toffee and expecting me to answer with why you should.

Also, pushing a toffee lynch while trying to convince Amrun (who I'm just going to assume is the vig now) that you're town and don is scum would be the smarter option today.

I've been thinking this over, and I think we're having trouble putting ourselves in the other player's shoes. From your perspective, you don't have a townread on me or SSSS, but, from my perspective, I have a townread on you

and

SSSS, which just intuitively has me working based off of that.

I need to take your hesistations into account. Although it would be better from my point of view to have don gone, I understand why you're not going to be able to see me eye to eye on that.

Unvote

;

vote: toffee

---

That is why I said it was dumb for you to claim needlessly.

She was going to be lynched. Remember Scott came out?

---

plus, he implied he would not be open to lynching anyone but amrun. i made the point that amrun would get vig'd tonight if he was lying. once brosius acknowledged that i went back to my NUMBER ONE SUSPECT.

You didn't need to move your vote to Amrun to accomplish this. You only did it so that you (hopefully) could get Amrun quicklynch'd before anyone caught on.

Unfortunately, none of your scumbuddies got online when you voted Amrun, so you quickly hopped back to me, realizing you couldn't get the mislynch. I know your game, big don.

---

I won't be shooting red.

<3

---

uh, what did he notice about me? are you referring to his giant OMGUS vote? you know, the one he laid down after doing absolutely nothing for the entire game?

You accusing me of not having done anything the entire game? Muffin may have some reasonable questions and honest misunderstandings about the way I played this game, but you did nothing, man. You threw a couple of lazy votes on DK and lurked until the day was over.

---

seriously dude, i'll lynch anyone over me today out of that scummy pool, but i would prefer to lynch RC.

Prove it. Vote toffee.

vote don because he's the slickest of the three.

I said I'd be just as happy with a toffee vote OR an HN vote. The only reason I'd rather have you gone is because I know you'd be a tougher sell to lynch later in this game.

why would i unvote you? if you are the vig and i am scum, then i can only be scum with sss and rc. if not, then my third(or both) partner(s) are off the wagon. which means all they need to do is come in and hammer the fucking vig.

Not when your partners are dead fish like toffee and as inactive as HN. Hell, SSSS almost unvoted before you did. You preemptively jumped off because you knew the wagon was going to fall apart later once the rest of the players voting Amrun saw her claim.

i also unvote

immediately

after brosius concedes my point. please explain how any of that benefits scumdon?

Well, duh, because you knew Scott was getting off the Amrun wagon.

---

This actually is a good point. If don's buddy was off-wagon and Amrun is really vig, he had no reason to unvote (mislynch vig = game over). Which means if don is scum, his partners need to be on the wagon.

Also believe his explanation.

Nope, read above. You forgetting to factor time into this equation. don unvoted simply because his partners were not online and because the Amrun wagon was about to collapse.

[zMuffinMan]

I mean, if I thought HN or DH were scum at that point, I wouldn't be giving them props and agree with the things they say.

This doesn't necessarily imply you think they are town, either.

Who did I not engage? Or "properly" engage?

I don't think you really engaged anyone. I did not read the questions you asked as really engaging.

Like, sure, you may have addressed questions to everyone and you made some comments about them, but you were really careful not to step on any toes, and you also made no cases on anyone (as much as you want to justify your DK->toffee->DK vote-hopping, I still see it as you sheeping others while vaguely trying to make it look like you weren't sheeping).

You're acting as though I'm trying to hide these things from everyone.

Because that's what I think you were doing. Not committing to anything (saying you "like" something they posted isn't a commitment) makes it easy for you to backtrack "reads".

Nope, read above. You forgetting to factor time into this equation. don unvoted simply because his partners were not online and because the Amrun wagon was about to collapse.

No. There are several reasons this makes no sense to me, and the biggest reason why is that he didn't need to unvote, he could have just feigned inactivity until someone else unvoted her. Why would he unvote instead of leaving the possibility open for a partner to lynch? I looked at the time stamps here, so it doesn't make sense that he unvoted if he's scum.

He

could

be scum, but it's a longshot. I had a town read on him before then, and that only solidified it for me.

[RedCoyote]

I don't think you really engaged anyone.

No. There are several reasons this makes no sense to me, and the biggest reason why is that he didn't need to unvote, he could have just feigned inactivity until someone else unvoted her.

It doesn't matter. It's a win-win for him at that point. Either he gets Amrun lynch or he'll get me lynched. At that point he thought he had Amrun in his pocket and that she'd be willing to jump on my wagon.

[zMuffinMan]

No, getting you lynched doesn't result in a scum win, because the vig can still vig correctly.

Getting the vig lynched results in an automatic scum win (3:3 tomorrow).

[RedCoyote]

Either you're underestimating how calculating don is, or I'm overestimating him.

Hmmm... maybe SSSS isn't town then?

[DarthYoshi]

Day Two, Votecount the Third

don_johnson (1): Amrun
Amrun (1): Scott Brosius
RedCoyote (4): toffee, HellloooNewman, don_johnson, zMuffinMan
toffee (1): RedCoyote
Not Voting (1): Smashbro_of_the_SSS

The deadline is 7:30 am PDT, Saturday, June 4. With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch, and 4 to no-lynch.

As ever, any issues, please let me know. FYI--I may not have internet access again today to check in. Sorry.

[Amrun]

Unvote; Vote toffee

[HellloooNewman]

RC? Maybe SSSS isn't town? Flip flopping your entire stance is a bit drastic wouldn't you say?

I'm not liking the stall tactics I'm seeing from Amrun. Hammer RC today, VIG Don/Toffee tonight, and lynch the other tomorrow. Bing bang boom, town wins. Are you trying to amend for your quickhammer yesterday, or are we missing something?

(FYI - @ other sites I play @, if a vig gets NK'd their kill usually doesn't go through. That's why I thought it would happen like that here as well.)