Wizards at the Sorcerers' Den - Endgame

[PeregrineV]

Sorry about the minimialist posting- catching up now.

1- 1-CryMeARiver- null leaning scum, with stuff like this http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 5#p3065175
2- gandalf5166 – null leaning null- wary of single sentence playstyle, but good vibes
3- chesskid3 – playstyle seems scummy, but claiming guaranteed town
4- Albert B. Rampage – townish- creepy avatar face, but like the feel of the posts
5- Riceballtail- null, need more
6- Katy*-townish- liking Katy post, want more
7- Bunnylover- getting scum vibes (this vs this, for example.
8- IceyCupcake- null- jester-like softclaim + request- like the active posting part, unsure on the style
9- Amrun-leaning town- like the activity and details of thoughts
10- Dry-fit- null, need more
11- SnakePlissken- null, need more
12- WrathChild- null (in general like the town of the posts, but spends wayyy too much time discussing obviously bad claim plan)
13- Soben- town (getting almost 90% agreement with posts)
14- Beefster*- leaning scum (you HAVE to read the posts, unless, you know, YOU don’t have too)
15- PeregrineV- keeping up with game, needs to post more
16- BabySpice*- null leaning town- like what I read so far, want more
17- LynchMePls- null, want more (don’t like early posts as much as later posts, also too much time talking about badplan)
18- Zdenek- null, need more
19- Mana_Ku- null leaning town, like style, want more
20- inHimshallibe- null leaning null- relevant posts but don’t like single sentence style
21- SGRaaize*- null leaning town (like activity, don’t like some content, like activity)
22- implosion*- null, need more
23- Feysal*- null, need more
*Participating in the Icey vote-unvote-a-thon

[PeregrineV]

"Leave it to me!" one of them said. "Me, Andrius the Vamp-" the poor featureless body hadn't even finished his speech when a gosthly hand appeared out of the jar and grabbed him and devoured in a matter of seconds.
"It seems we can't speak our names."

"I'm a wight!" he exclaimed out loud. "I'm a wig-" his voice was suddenly silenced as a dim glow began to emerge out of his mouth and eyes. The glow started to grow stronger, blinding everyone for a mere second. When the light disappeared, they all stared at a lifeless shell. The features were back on the white body, and even though his eyes were completely burnt, they could recognize the face of Pine the wight

.

Based on similarity, going with flavor-based game mechanic.

[Baby Spice]

^^ An item in someones possession?

I'm also thinking that Snow_Bunny has already thought of the claim plan and that there is something that counters it.

Have we really only had six people in the Iceyvote thing?

[PeregrineV]

Started trakcing mid-reads..
EBWOP-
Gandalf*
Katy*
Amrun, CMAR, chesskid, Wrathchild- one icy vote powerup

[chesskid3]

you also missed the mason claim

[chesskid3]

I'm being shitty atm
I'll read this tomorrow
yell at me if i dont >_>

[SnakePlissken]

Unvote, Vote Feysal

[Katy]

What? Is this a joke or what? You really think Snow_Bunny would let us go against her intent by lynching her? Have you been paying attention to her mod posts. We should all just move past the claiming thing. We are going to play this game without that crutch, as intended. What was the point of this speculation?

Why would S_B allow herself to be voted then?

Because it has no real effect? For votecounting purposes? All kinds of reasons.

@Katy: If the mod is the one killing off people who claimed (therefore making it a in-game ability and not a modkill), why would it be bad to kill the mod off? The only way I can see it bad is if you are scum/anti third party, but I rather give you the benefit of the doubt

We have no evidence that the mod is killing anyone off in an in-game sort of way. I think that Snow_Bunny was pretty clear with her mod posts and with previous games, and I don't read the non-claiming message as something that we are supposed to try to overcome. I thought it was pretty clear that S_B set these games up in such a way to encourage play without claiming by incorporating pitfalls to claiming. I don't understand why we would waste time trying to figure out how to do something the mod explicitly stated she doesn't want us to do. We're trying to beat the scum, not the moderator, and focusing on speculative ways of trying to work around a game restriction rather than on finding scum seems ... well, scummy.

Dry-fit still seeming scummy to me. In the Amrun/Beefster battle, if I was choosing between the two I would vote Beef, but that's only between the two of them, he's not real high up on my must die list. Still not liking implosion either.

@Snake: That's it? You haven't so much as mentioned Feysal previously.

[SnakePlissken]

Feysal, I voted for the wrong person

Unvote

I was looking to vote VOTE: Dry-Fit but I was reading Feysal last post comment
at the time. The reason being they are far more lurky than me and providing less content.

I find the first day stages really hard to get a handle on anyone, I find I can get more once we get to a flip and the overnights activity, providing I have survived it. What Mason claim Chess? Im also not liking CMAR trying to take on Gandlafs role from he last game either as some form of TL.

[CryMeARiver]

Sorry about the minimialist posting- catching up now.

1- 1-CryMeARiver- null leaning scum, with stuff like this http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 5#p3065175
2- gandalf5166 – null leaning null- wary of single sentence playstyle, but good vibes
3- chesskid3 – playstyle seems scummy, but claiming guaranteed town
4- Albert B. Rampage – townish- creepy avatar face, but like the feel of the posts
5- Riceballtail- null, need more
6- Katy*-townish- liking Katy post, want more
7- Bunnylover- getting scum vibes (this vs this, for example.
8- IceyCupcake- null- jester-like softclaim + request- like the active posting part, unsure on the style
9- Amrun-leaning town- like the activity and details of thoughts
10- Dry-fit- null, need more
11- SnakePlissken- null, need more
12- WrathChild- null (in general like the town of the posts, but spends wayyy too much time discussing obviously bad claim plan)
13- Soben- town (getting almost 90% agreement with posts)
14- Beefster*- leaning scum (you HAVE to read the posts, unless, you know, YOU don’t have too)
15- PeregrineV- keeping up with game, needs to post more
16- BabySpice*- null leaning town- like what I read so far, want more
17- LynchMePls- null, want more (don’t like early posts as much as later posts, also too much time talking about badplan)
18- Zdenek- null, need more
19- Mana_Ku- null leaning town, like style, want more
20- inHimshallibe- null leaning null- relevant posts but don’t like single sentence style
21- SGRaaize*- null leaning town (like activity, don’t like some content, like activity)
22- implosion*- null, need more
23- Feysal*- null, need more
*Participating in the Icey vote-unvote-a-thon

For some reason I'm thinking you just ISO'd people rather than read the thread.
Also, laughed at this:

15- PeregrineV- keeping up with game, needs to post more

^^ An item in someones possession?

What'd you mean by this BabySpice?

Because it has no real effect? For votecounting purposes? All kinds of reasons.

Perhaps it would be a poor place for our D1 lynch/mislynch as it wouldn't give us too much info. But removing the claim mechanic WOULD benefit the town in my opinion, and we sort of already achieved a mislynch in Pine. Someone should check S_B's previous modded games and see if she included herself in the VC.

No, I haven't. Should I?

What was this in response to?

@Mod: Would like an answer to this.

[Baby Spice]

^^ An item in someones possession?

What'd you mean by this BabySpice?

Just that it sounds like the jar did the Pine thing, and there are no items (ie: the Jar) available for grabbing that we know of, so I'm thinking that the jar is in someones possession.

[Soben]

Apologies for my brain-fart earlier, I shouldn't be playing when I'm sleep deprived.

Post #845 by Beefster - This is a complete misrepresentation of what occured and reads as an attempt to smear Amrums image, she was responding to my thoughts on her meta, not bringing up gamblers fallacy.

Post #871 by Amrum - Want to explain to me the point of a reaction test vote if you state it's a reaction-test vote?

Post #883 by CMAR - Ugh. I have to agree with this, I don't see Beef making such posts as scum which means he's just awful town.

Post #897 by Implosion - Really dislike the attack on Snake for something trivial, there's a difference between scummy and a scum-tell, selfvoting is scummy but it's not exactly a scum-tell so Snake is indeed correct here.

Post #900 by Pere - This is bad, as someone else stated it seems like you just ISO'ed, you need to comment on events that have occured. What's your thoughts on the early wagon on SGR?

Town (From Strongest to Weakest):

ABR, Chesskid, Manu_Ku, SGR, IceyCupcake, CMAR, WrathChild, Baby Spice, Gandalf, Beefster, Feysal, Katy.

Null:

SnakePlussken, inHimshallibe, Zdenek, BunnyLover.

Scum (From Strongest to Weakest):

Implosion, RBT, Dry-Fit, LMP, PeregrineV, Amrum.

Vote: Implosion

[LimMePls]

You got that right. Thanks for reminding me why I signed up for this game.

So you can play like shit and a) get mislynched or b) force the few people who know you play like shit to keep the rest of us from mislynching you?

[LimMePls]

Im back, I need to read back properly (Ive skimmed thus far) but Pine's claim for self voting is horrible. I learned my lesson from that, I don't care what situation you are in

self voting is scummy whether you are town or not.

Bolded emphasis is mine - how can something be scummy when you admit that it can come from either alignment? Something is defined as scummy if it is indicative that the alignment of the person in question is scum. How can something be scummy "whether someone is town or not?" If it can come from town or scum, why pay attention to it at all?

This is a good point.

Feysal, I voted for the wrong person Unvote I was looking to vote VOTE: Dry-Fit but I was reading Feysal last post comment
at the time. The reason being they are far more lurky than me and providing less content.

I find the first day stages really hard to get a handle on anyone, I find I can get more once we get to a flip and the overnights activity, providing I have survived it. What Mason claim Chess? Im also not liking CMAR trying to take on Gandlafs role from he last game either as some form of TL.

o_O

@Soben: What exactly is the problem with Implosion?

[Soben]

LMP, I touched on it earlier however I'll elaborate.

This is a bad conflation of anti-town and scum. Selfvoting (or threatening to do so) is obviously anti-town; AtE is probably anti-town; however, if this was your reasoning for justifying a Pine vote, then this reasoning is terrible; just because someone acts anti-town, it does not mean that they are scum, as I explained earlier. You have to look at intentions and whether or not a given appeal looks genuine or contrived.

He tells Wrath that his vote and reasoning behind the Pine vote was terrible because people have to look at the intentions behind the persons actions to attain a real read of what allignment they are, he does this without attempting to read Wraths intentions at all which contradicts the main point he's trying to get across.

I've been missing some from skimming, but I'm in agreement with pressure on beef at this point. His attack on Pine didn't look good either. A lot of the attacks on pine were really bad, actually.

Here he states that he agrees with pressure towards Beef without adding any extra pressure himself, he then states that peoples attacks on Pine were bad without stating any specific names or moving his vote to one of them.

Bolded emphasis is mine - how can something be scummy when you admit that it can come from either alignment? Something is defined as scummy if it is indicative that the alignment of the person in question is scum. How can something be scummy "whether someone is town or not?" If it can come from town or scum, why pay attention to it at all?

This is incredibly opportunistic, it's a known fact that a scum-tell and a scummy action are two entirely different things, there are things that can be percieved as scummy however unallignment related thus his attack on Snake reads as "Attack the lurker" on a completlely incorrect basis.

[Zdenek]

Zdenek: You have just demonstrated to me that you do not read the thread. When asked for my opinoin of you, I went straight from memory because I do read the thread - amazing, right? I remembered being bothered by your "placeholder" SnakePlissen vote that you later tried to justify, but really liking your thoughts that camme with your Pine vote. One good point + one bad point = null. If 0pine had flipped scum, your good points would have outweighed the bad. I said all of this in less words in my other post. Gut leans town on you. Why are you nitpicking my read on you so? You can't know how I arrived at it, and what is more, it doesn't matter at all. Does my play read like someone who is avoiding confrontation? Not at all. As ABR said, I have been aggressive. Please try to make more sense.

I have already answered in very explicit terms why I think Beefster is scum and what bothers my gut to make me think he might be town in a previous post, so I won't do your reading for you.

The fact that you went from memory is not a good excuse for taking what I would call a convenient stance. Couple that with how you are now backing down from your case on Beefster for what seems to me to be a fairly weak (and at least vague) reason, which you refuse to elaborate on, I think it's fair to say that you are avoiding conflict. I don't really care what ABR said earlier.

WC is still bad: now for regurgitating other people's ideas.

I like Soben's second and third points against Implosion.

[WrathChild]

Feysal, I voted for the wrong person

Unvote

I was looking to vote VOTE: Dry-Fit but I was reading Feysal last post comment
at the time. The reason being they are far more lurky than me and providing less content.

I find the first day stages really hard to get a handle on anyone, I find I can get more once we get to a flip and the overnights activity, providing I have survived it. What Mason claim Chess? Im also not liking CMAR trying to take on Gandlafs role from he last game either as some form of TL.

I'm going to take this and use it to re-surface the mass-attack lurker plan.

Snake, what the hell do we gain from lynching dryfit when we can just mob him at night? We need to focus on lynching scummy players that will interact with us during the day and pick off lurkers at night with a coordinated group attack.

[WrathChild]

Zdenek: You have just demonstrated to me that you do not read the thread. When asked for my opinoin of you, I went straight from memory because I do read the thread - amazing, right? I remembered being bothered by your "placeholder" SnakePlissen vote that you later tried to justify, but really liking your thoughts that camme with your Pine vote. One good point + one bad point = null. If 0pine had flipped scum, your good points would have outweighed the bad. I said all of this in less words in my other post. Gut leans town on you. Why are you nitpicking my read on you so? You can't know how I arrived at it, and what is more, it doesn't matter at all. Does my play read like someone who is avoiding confrontation? Not at all. As ABR said, I have been aggressive. Please try to make more sense.

I have already answered in very explicit terms why I think Beefster is scum and what bothers my gut to make me think he might be town in a previous post, so I won't do your reading for you.

The fact that you went from memory is not a good excuse for taking what I would call a convenient stance. Couple that with how you are now backing down from your case on Beefster for what seems to me to be a fairly weak (and at least vague) reason, which you refuse to elaborate on, I think it's fair to say that you are avoiding conflict. I don't really care what ABR said earlier.

WC is still bad: now for regurgitating other people's ideas.

I like Soben's second and third points against Implosion.

Are you still not reading?

I explained the difference between my idea and the original one proposed when LMP brought this up earlier.

It's pretty ironic that you'll call me bad for regurgating idea, when that comment towards me itself is purely regurgatated. So much that you didn't even bother to read my response from the FIRST time it was brought up.

[WrathChild]

Still in the Material World

1- CryMeARiver - Town
2- gandalf5166
3- chesskid3 - Town
4- Albert B. Rampage - Town
5- Riceballtail - Lurker
6- Katy - ProbTown
7- Bunnylover -ProbTown/3rd Party trying to get the mod lynched (why not?)
8- IceyCupcake - Town/Who gives a crap if he's a 3rd party
9- Amrun
10- Dry-fit - Somewhat Lurker, but I'm thinking Town still
11- SnakePlissken - Lurker
12- WrathChild - Town
13- Soben - Town (Sounds like a married couple)
14- Beefster - Town
15- PeregrineV - Lurker
16- BabySpice
17- LynchMePls
18- Zdenek - Town
19- Mana_Ku - Town
20- inHimshallibe - ProbTown
21- SGRaaize - Town
22- implosion
23- Feysal

CMR: Can you explain your town read on Zdenek?

[Zdenek]

I explained the difference between my idea and the original one proposed when LMP brought this up earlier.

It's pretty ironic that you'll call me bad for regurgating idea, when that comment towards me itself is purely regurgatated. So much that you didn't even bother to read my response from the FIRST time it was brought up.

I read it, and decided that you were probably making stuff up, since that was certainly the intention of the original plan.

[WrathChild]

I explained the difference between my idea and the original one proposed when LMP brought this up earlier.

It's pretty ironic that you'll call me bad for regurgating idea, when that comment towards me itself is purely regurgatated. So much that you didn't even bother to read my response from the FIRST time it was brought up.

I read it, and decided that you were probably making stuff up, since that was certainly the intention of the original plan.

Making stuff up? WTF are you talking about?

Since my theory is that everyone has a damaging spell, I think we can use that to our advantage by NK'ing a scummy player as a group at nightfall.

This doesnt differentiate between lurky and active scummy players, none of the subsequent discussion, until I brought it up, touched on that. In fact I'm willing to bet dollars to cents that once I expanded on ABR's idea you didn't even go back and read the original proposal. On top of that I'm willing to bet you just read LMP's comment and thought you'd regurgitate it yourself.

The fact that you are calling me bad for regurgitating (when I actually expanded on an idea), is a direct contridiction because you yourself are simply regurgating what you read from LMP.

[WrathChild]

My spelling sucks

[Zdenek]

This was the plan I was referring to:

We have to start thinking about damaging abilities this phase. If we agree to do them on the lurkers (aka the list below) I'll move off RBT, because although I'm pretty sure she's scum, I agree we're not going to get a pile of info out of the lynch.

Lurkers that need to die:
Riceballtail
SnakePlissken
PeregrineV

All solid choices for our damaging attacks. Make this happen town, we are NOT LOSING TO LURKERS WHEN ALL OF US HAVE A WAY TO HURT THEM.

Also, the idea that people shouldn't point out scummy things that others are doing because they've been pointed out before is ridiculous.

[LimMePls]

@Soben: I can see your point in the first two, but I don't understand the third. I think his observation in 3 is pretty spot on.

[Amrun]

ITT Snake votes Dry-Fit for lurking. Lulz.

Soben: Gandalf is a player that doesn't react to singular votes unless they're on a wagon, so in this one case, it matters very little whether or not I state my intentions or not. Sometimes, it does.

P-edit: Ninjaed like 10 times.

Zdenek: calling me non-cconfrontational when I have been almost overly confrontational is silly at best, but however you want to look at it. I still lean scum on Beefster, but that is clearly not going to reach a lynch today. According to you, I should stop scumhunting because I found one possile scumspect? That makes no sense.