Wizards at the Sorcerers' Den - Endgame


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Post Post #925 (ISO) » Thu May 26, 2011 6:10 am

Post by WrathChild »

Zdenek wrote:This was the plan I was referring to:

IceyC wrote:
We have to start thinking about damaging abilities this phase. If we agree to do them on the lurkers (aka the list below) I'll move off RBT, because although I'm pretty sure she's scum, I agree we're not going to get a pile of info out of the lynch.

Lurkers that need to die:
Riceballtail
SnakePlissken
PeregrineV

All solid choices for our damaging attacks. Make this happen town, we are NOT LOSING TO LURKERS WHEN ALL OF US HAVE A WAY TO HURT THEM.


Also, the idea that people shouldn't point out scummy things that others are doing because they've been pointed out before is ridiculous.

I stan humbly corrected. Apologies.
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Post Post #926 (ISO) » Thu May 26, 2011 7:32 am

Post by WrathChild »

Beef to Amrun Wagon Shift:

The first non-joke vote on Beef came from Amrun (ISO #12), who begins the push for a Beef-wagon. This push was the reaction to Beef's vote on Amrun for using "Circular Logic". Already this reeks a bit of OMGUS as for pages and pages after his intial vote on Beef, Amrun kept dredging it up again and again.

I (Post #510) was the next person to vote Beef based on his aggressive push for an Amrun wagon (on a pretty weak accusation IMO) over what at the time was an obvious choice in the Pine Wagon as well as over-FoSing.

LMP takes the 3rd vote on the Beef Wagon (Post #617), but provides no reasoning.

Mana Ku comes in with the 4th vote on the Beef Wagon (Post #647), again with no reasoning.

I get off the Beef Wagon and onto the SGR one (Post #659)

CK (Mana's Mason) follows suit and becomes the 4th vote on Beef (Post #684). CK quickly bails on this wagon and votes me.

Baby Spice steps in and takes the #4 spot on the Beef wagon (Post #759), however, unlike CK or Mana, she provides some reasoning.

This is quickly followed by the 5th vote on the Beefwagon by Gandalf (Post #761), no reasoning.

At this point Beef is at 5 and Amrun is at 1 votes. Things shift very quickly from here:

I would consider the first vote on the Amrun Wagon Zdenek's (Post #727), who voted Amrun for an aggressive Null read on him.

Soben takes the #2 spot on the Amrun Wagon (Post #779), but provides no reasoning.

ABR comes in #3 and votes Amrun for attention whoring and the hard push for Beef Votes (Post #783).

Icey jumps on at #4 with "Amrun is annoying" reasoning (Post #792). (
Vote Count Post #841 and #885 Descrepency
)

Beef sees the Amrun Wagon and can't wait to get on as #5 (Post #802).

Soben gets off.

InHim replaces Soben and takes the new #5 spot just for added pressure (Post #877).

ABR gets off.

So at their Peaks we had:

Beef Wagon (5): Amrun, LynchMePls, ManaKu, BabySpice, gandalf5166
Amrun Wagon (5): Zdenek, ABR, Icey, Beefster, inHimshallibe

What's interesting about these two wagons is that nobody hops from one to another, something I'd expect to see done by opportunistic scum. This suggests to me that most likely both or none of these players (Beef/Amrun) are town. Since I doubt (but I've seen it done before) that scum would push so hard on each other at this point, I suspect both are town.

In all honesty, the Amrun wagon just looks like a good old-fashion counter wagon.
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Post Post #927 (ISO) » Thu May 26, 2011 7:40 am

Post by inHimshallibe »

Good recap.

I'm feeling a lapse of understanding jumping from "no one jumped wagons" to "this suggests they're the same alignment."

Also, gandalf still looking bad.
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Post Post #928 (ISO) » Thu May 26, 2011 8:06 am

Post by WrathChild »

Yeah, you know what, you're probably right. I guess my thinking was that if there were scum on the beef wagon, they would have jumped to the Amrun wagon once it started. Instead, you see two pretty polarized groups maybe even suggesting the opposite. My brain is still fuzzy from being sick. I basically thought an analysis of the Wagon shift would have shown us something, but I couldn't really pinpoint anything, since I couldn't pinpoint anything I guess I just made an illogical jump.
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Post Post #929 (ISO) » Thu May 26, 2011 8:09 am

Post by inHimshallibe »

It doesn't really tell us much 'til we get some flips, in my opinion.

Who are you voting?
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Post Post #930 (ISO) » Thu May 26, 2011 8:10 am

Post by inHimshallibe »

Unvote was the last thing I saw. Though I take it you don't take too kindly to Zdenek.


I need to do a big board.
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Post Post #931 (ISO) » Thu May 26, 2011 8:43 am

Post by PeregrineV »

SnakePlissken wrote:....they are far more lurky than me and providing less content.

:lol:
Sorry, this came to mind.
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Post Post #932 (ISO) » Thu May 26, 2011 8:48 am

Post by WrathChild »

inHimshallibe wrote:Unvote was the last thing I saw. Though I take it you don't take too kindly to Zdenek.


I need to do a big board.

I don't have a vote out currently. I'm leaning towards beef though. There was something that really bothered me a bit back:

Beefster wrote:
WrathChild wrote:@Beef #741: Wait, you are advocating townies that don't read carefully, even admitting to not reading carefully yourself? Heck, I've missed a few things things in this game and gone back and caught them on subsequent passes, but still would never suggest that not-reading carefully is a town-tell. It's your responsibility as town to read carefully. Just take my whole last debate about Pine's death and SGR's plan, I didn't read the vampire death scene carefully because I usually skim flavor and it lead to a huge distraction. Such a distraction is not helpful to town (maybe it will end up providing some sort of info later as a discussion point), I made a mistake. The bottom line is not-reading carefully = bad for town.
I'm just lazy. I miss details and I really don't care about details.
I'm actually more advocating that scum tends to nitpick- and to nitpick, one must read very closely. I told you it was a stretch.
There's also the other side- the way too lazy to read properly side. That would be me. These people tend to be town, but not always.
Interpret it as you will.

WrathChild wrote:@Beef #743: It's quite clear that you're not reading carefully, because in Post #725 I state that I am NOT confident the Claim = Death is not a mechanic.
Well then. Good to know.

UNVOTE
*applause* Bravo. Good choice. I am town, after all.


The problem is that I didn't even unvote him, I unvoted SGR. I don't know really what to take out of it ATM, but it just rubbed me the wrong way.

I've got to go to lunch, I'll be back later with some more thoughts.
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Post Post #933 (ISO) » Thu May 26, 2011 9:11 am

Post by PeregrineV »

@CMAR- Did a read, then a re-read for overall interactions, then an ISO for specifics.

Also, I think the mod was just going with the flow and showing where the vote was instead of meaning anything greater.

@Soben- I initally thought about it, but in the interest of actually catching up and posting content, decided to forgo stuff like

"Ohhh- breadcrumb?"
and
"Does this mean you get 13 votes?"

And I've addressed topical stuff, I think, in the respective person. But, if you'd like my specific opinion about something earlier in the (game) day, please ask.
re:SRG- He was the first to gather votes, and they seemed justified at first, as did the ones that went to Pine. But, he seemed to respond to his voters enough to lose the wagon. Didn't like the meta-talk, liked the wall posts and reads, and like the activity level.

@WC- like the vote count analysis, but agree with Inhim about it not determining alignments at this point. But, I like having VCAs and referring to them later.
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Post Post #934 (ISO) » Thu May 26, 2011 9:21 am

Post by Soben »

WC, I agree with your analysis with re: to the Amrun/Beef wagons with regards to the likeliness of both scum/both town. Surely that is not 100% reliable but you make good points specifically about lack of wagon jumping.

Oh and this is Scumhunter here. I was the one who placed the second vote on Amrun. Was mostly a feel thing, I was tired of pussyfooting around all day, and it was one of the only scum reads that Reg and I both strongly agreed on at the time. He then bitched me out for "locking a counterwagon" when there was still more info to be gained. After Amrun's later posts/responses to the growing wagon, Reg and I both came to the conclusion at about the same time that we were liking the Amrun wagon less and less. At this moment in time, we definitely are very much for supporting a lynch outside of Amrun/Beef and I'd actually like to see people unvote those wagons.
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Post Post #935 (ISO) » Thu May 26, 2011 9:34 am

Post by Snow_Bunny »

Votecount


1- CryMeARiver
[Healthy]
(0)
2- gandalf5166
[Healthy]
(1) - Amrun
3- chesskid3
[Healthy]
(0) -
4- Albert B. Rampage
[Healthy]
(0) -
5- Riceballtail
[Healthy]
(1) - Dryfit
6- Katy
[Healthy]
(0)
7- Bunnylover
[Healthy]
(0) -
8- IceyCupcake
[Healthy]
(0)
9- Amrun
[Healthy]
(3) - Zdenek, Beefster, inHimshallibe
10- Dry-fit
[Healthy]
(1) - SnakePlissken
11- SnakePlissken
[Healthy]
(0) -
12- WrathChild
[Healthy]
(1) - chesskid3,
13- Soben
[Healthy]
(1) - implosion,
14- Beefster
[Healthy]
(4) - LynchMePls, ManaKu, BabySpice, gandalf5166
15- PeregrineV
[Healthy]
(0)
16- BabySpice
[Healthy]
(0) -
17- LynchMePls
[Healthy]
(1) - Riceballtail
18- Zdenek
[Healthy]
(0)
19- Mana_Ku
[Healthy]
(0) -
20- inHimshallibe
[Healthy]
(1) - Feysal
21- SGRaaize
[Healthy]
(0) -
22- implosion
[Healthy]
(3) - SGRaaize, Katy, Soben
23- Feysal
[Healthy]
(0) -
Mod- Snow_Bunny
[Healthy]
(1) - Bunnylover

Not voting (5): PeregrineV, WrathChild, IceyCupcake, CryMeARiver, , ABR

With 23 alive, it takes 12 to lynch.

Deadline is on June 9th at midnight (GMT -5)

CryMeARiver wrote:
Snow_Bunny wrote:
No, I haven't. Should I?

What was this in response to?

@Mod: Would like an answer to this.


OMG, aren't you obnoxious? Geez, read the previous post to that one and you'll find it was just a joke post from my behalf. I can get bored, you know?
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Post Post #936 (ISO) » Thu May 26, 2011 10:13 am

Post by inHimshallibe »

Yeesh, largest wagon is 4 votes? Let's get the lead out people.
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Post Post #937 (ISO) » Thu May 26, 2011 11:38 am

Post by Beefster »

PeregrineV wrote:Sorry about the minimialist posting- catching up now.

1- 1-CryMeARiver- null leaning scum, with stuff like this http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 5#p3065175
2- gandalf5166 – null leaning null- wary of single sentence playstyle, but good vibes
3- chesskid3 – playstyle seems scummy, but claiming guaranteed town
4- Albert B. Rampage – townish- creepy avatar face, but like the feel of the posts
5- Riceballtail- null, need more
6- Katy*-townish- liking Katy post, want more
7- Bunnylover- getting scum vibes (this vs this, for example.
8- IceyCupcake- null- jester-like softclaim + request- like the active posting part, unsure on the style
9- Amrun-leaning town- like the activity and details of thoughts
10- Dry-fit- null, need more
11- SnakePlissken- null, need more
12- WrathChild- null (in general like the town of the posts, but spends wayyy too much time discussing obviously bad claim plan)
13- Soben- town (getting almost 90% agreement with posts)
14- Beefster*- leaning scum (you HAVE to read the posts, unless, you know, YOU don’t have too)
15- PeregrineV- keeping up with game, needs to post more
16- BabySpice*- null leaning town- like what I read so far, want more
17- LynchMePls- null, want more (don’t like early posts as much as later posts, also too much time talking about badplan)
18- Zdenek- null, need more
19- Mana_Ku- null leaning town, like style, want more
20- inHimshallibe- null leaning null- relevant posts but don’t like single sentence style
21- SGRaaize*- null leaning town (like activity, don’t like some content, like activity)
22- implosion*- null, need more
23- Feysal*- null, need more
*Participating in the Icey vote-unvote-a-thon
Okay... There were 900 posts at that point. How can you have just about everyone as null? Trying to keep your books open, I see.

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Post Post #938 (ISO) » Thu May 26, 2011 11:44 am

Post by gandalf5166 »

And no scumreads..............
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Post Post #939 (ISO) » Thu May 26, 2011 11:53 am

Post by Beefster »

PeregrineV wrote:@CMAR- Did a read, then a re-read for overall interactions, then an ISO for specifics.

Also, I think the mod was just going with the flow and showing where the vote was instead of meaning anything greater.

@Soben- I initally thought about it, but in the interest of actually catching up and posting content, decided to forgo stuff like

"Ohhh- breadcrumb?"
and
"Does this mean you get 13 votes?"

And I've addressed topical stuff, I think, in the respective person. But, if you'd like my specific opinion about something earlier in the (game) day, please ask.
re:SRG- He was the first to gather votes, and they seemed justified at first, as did the ones that went to Pine. But, he seemed to respond to his voters enough to lose the wagon. Didn't like the meta-talk, liked the wall posts and reads, and like the activity level.

@WC- like the vote count analysis, but agree with Inhim about it not determining alignments at this point. But, I like having VCAs and referring to them later.
Ugh. This post is just awful. Focusing on the RVS? Try looking at the recent. It's generally more useful.

unvote

VOTE: IC
unvote

VOTE: Peregrine

I'm gonna give Amrun a little cooldown time and shift the perspective a bit. Amrun might be a better vig option, anyway. She's taking the game way too seriously.
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Post Post #940 (ISO) » Thu May 26, 2011 1:51 pm

Post by Amrun »

Vig should kill town because I am interested in the game. Makes perfect sense.
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Post Post #941 (ISO) » Thu May 26, 2011 2:13 pm

Post by Beefster »

Supposedly, we all have damaging spells. I know I do.
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Post Post #942 (ISO) » Thu May 26, 2011 2:13 pm

Post by Amrun »

Your point is?
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Post Post #943 (ISO) » Thu May 26, 2011 2:55 pm

Post by Riceballtail »

Amrun wrote:Your point is?

Town collecting together to kill scum = group vig. We pick like two people, and vig them. Those who are too cool for it get lynched or killed themselves.
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Post Post #944 (ISO) » Thu May 26, 2011 3:01 pm

Post by CryMeARiver »

Implo, Amrun, gandalf made the top 3. Choose who dies.
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Post Post #945 (ISO) » Thu May 26, 2011 3:17 pm

Post by Amrun »

Riceballtail wrote:
Amrun wrote:Your point is?

Town collecting together to kill scum = group vig. We pick like two people, and vig them. Those who are too cool for it get lynched or killed themselves.


You do understand that this was my plan to begin with, that I proposed?

My point is that you wanting me vigged for, in your own words, taking the game too seriously, is laughable.
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Post Post #946 (ISO) » Thu May 26, 2011 3:24 pm

Post by Riceballtail »

Amrun wrote:
Riceballtail wrote:
Amrun wrote:Your point is?

Town collecting together to kill scum = group vig. We pick like two people, and vig them. Those who are too cool for it get lynched or killed themselves.


You do understand that this was my plan to begin with, that I proposed?

My point is that you wanting me vigged for, in your own words, taking the game too seriously, is laughable.

Because clearly we hadn't come up with that in the last two games either.

Also, I never said I wanted you vigged. But your extreme misrep is noted and... kinda makes me want you vigged.
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Post Post #947 (ISO) » Thu May 26, 2011 3:25 pm

Post by gandalf5166 »

It was Beefster who said that.
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Post Post #948 (ISO) » Thu May 26, 2011 3:30 pm

Post by Amrun »

Riceballtail wrote:
Amrun wrote:
Riceballtail wrote:
Amrun wrote:Your point is?

Town collecting together to kill scum = group vig. We pick like two people, and vig them. Those who are too cool for it get lynched or killed themselves.


You do understand that this was my plan to begin with, that I proposed?

My point is that you wanting me vigged for, in your own words, taking the game too seriously, is laughable.

Because clearly we hadn't come up with that in the last two games either.

Also, I never said I wanted you vigged. But your extreme misrep is noted and... kinda makes me want you vigged.


Whatever made you think that post was directed at you?
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Post Post #949 (ISO) » Thu May 26, 2011 3:31 pm

Post by Baby Spice »

unvote
vote zdenek


I'm slowly getting the impression that Beefster is poor town. Bloody poor town.

Zdenek however, is making softly softly attacks on easy targets, which to me points at scum trying to not get too invested in a mis-lynch.
Beefster/Amrun for example. Vote on lurker Snake for no real reason is bad. Weak reasons on Pine when there were good reasons for voting him.
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