Open 307-Friends and Enemies Deadly Alliance-Town Wins!!

[DeityKabuto]

It should say "Snake - Null read"

[popsofctown]

post #537 was gratuitous

[[Low Key]]

No it was psychological pressure.

[[Low Key]]

@Muffin: Your reads on Chk and CJ I can see but I have yet to understand you ruling out Toro.

Are you actually saying you believe that scum-Snarky couldn't voice suspicion of a scum buddy on the way out??

Either way, all we need is for one of Chk/CJ to flip scum with your push and it will do alot to ease my mind concerning your alignment.

[[Low Key]]

One of these three cannot be scum: Chk, CJ, Toro

Our remaining scum will be found there, all things being equal.

[popsofctown]

I iso'ed chkflip, since I figured he couldn't be this upset unless I had glossed over some of his posts.

You asked to know what bothered me about DonJosh:

PB has started dropping some towntells.

unvote

. Spadille is rather misguided, he needs to look for the wine across the table: scumPB would yank his vote back into his turtle shell (or Mettaur helmet, bweheheh...) the moment he admitted any weakness his current vote has. TownPB leaves the vote due to forgetfulness, lack of a new target, and/or confirmation bias that makes him want to stay there anyway.

He uses the excuse of no content due to his cellphone but seems quite able to post frequently to Pops' queries. Why can't he provide some minimal town related content?
.

Typing for a long time on an iPod is frustrating. The reason I didn't want to vote yet was because voting without explaining is a lot worse than FoS'ing without explanation. If it makes you happy,

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Parabollocks

I don't understand how everyone else just passed over the post. It's clear that DonJosh is doing more work to manage his image than he is trying to catch scum. If his resources were, in fact, limited, he should have posted snippits about his reads to the exclusion of my clearly offtopic queries. He should have been brave enough to vote in the first place with a promise to explain later, his FoS is fearful, and applied less pressure purely for the sake of protecting his neck. And if he says FoSing without an explanation is "worse", but doesn't bother to explain how an unexplained FoS is more antitown than an unexplained vote. (hint: I don't really think you can)

But if there is a good reason behind your original behavior, you should stick by it. You seem to feel your action was protown, but won't stick by it if it causes you more pressure.

Vote: DonJosh

@Snarky: I did not have any reasons for voting Parabollocks that were unique to me. It was the third page of the flipping thread. The best I could do is explain my understanding of it.

@DonJosh: Your avatar looks ugly as a dead opossum to me. It's your right to keep it, but I politely request you get a different one. I'll post a new one for you if you ask. I think avatars I much dislike knock my reads off course, if only slightly.

@all: I would be delighted if we could stop using cliche' metaphors involving genitalia. I'm going to have parents over my shoulder for most of the summer, and it's a pain to minimize and unminimize mafiascum as they walk around.

Since he barely posted barely anything, that makes for a very high proportion of scummy posts. It'd take a lot of amazing play from you to atone for that, haven't seen enough.
That and the Snarky connection, though that's not foolproof, it is WIFOMish.


The main reason I'm voting you and don't feel like re-examining it is that you pre-emptively claimed VT. When you wreck protocol it hurts the game chkflip. The PoE power of the masons is totally dilluted if you claim VT and then expect us to leave you alive and lynch someone else. DK is such an imbecile, I don't expect better from him, but I've played with you before and believe you should know better. It [preemptive claiming] forces our hand towards lynching you to regain setup advantage. scumchkflip seems more likely to screw the town like this to save his neck than townchkflip does, but really you'll win more mafia games if you avoid doing that with either alignment. L-1, player willing to hammer, claim. You should know that by now.

[popsofctown]

@Muffin: Your reads on Chk and CJ I can see but I have yet to understand you ruling out Toro.

Are you actually saying you believe that scum-Snarky couldn't voice suspicion of a scum buddy on the way out??

Either way, all we need is for one of Chk/CJ to flip scum with your push and it will do alot to ease my mind concerning your alignment.

Dude, stop with the revisionist history. scum-Snarky lined up Toro's lynch before he was aware that he was in danger of death at all. He didn't even seem like a D2 lynch cantidate at the time.

[[Low Key]]

Snarky:

1) Protected the Chk slot.
2) Bussed the CJ slot but only in response to a weird "obliged" case due to CJ not having an reads on our scum!
3) Bussed the Toro slot shortly before his death when under pressure of being vigged.

[[Low Key]]

The main reason I'm voting you and don't feel like re-examining it is that you pre-emptively claimed VT. When you wreck protocol it hurts the game chkflip. The PoE power of the masons is totally dilluted if you claim VT and then expect us to leave you alive and lynch someone else. DK is such an imbecile, I don't expect better from him, but I've played with you before and believe you should know better. It [preemptive claiming] forces our hand towards lynching you to regain setup advantage. scumchkflip seems more likely to screw the town like this to save his neck than townchkflip does, but really you'll win more mafia games if you avoid doing that with either alignment. L-1, player willing to hammer, claim. You should know that by now.

This too but with a slight unspecified reservation.

Ok sorry, revise my statement about Toro to: "He bussed him when under heavy suspicion of being scum".

[[Low Key]]

See that makes me see Toro as very likely scum.

[[Low Key]]

Toro was under obvious pressure as the vig target, Snarky saw that and threw him under the bus. I mean that makes alot of sense. I don't see any reason whatsoever to rule out Toro as scum for that.

[zMuffinMan]

I'm not hammering chk any time soon. Also would prefer the hammer doesn't come until at least a few hours from now.

3) Bussed the Toro slot shortly before his death when under pressure of being vigged.

No, LK. Bad, LK. He started pushing a Toro vig way, way, way before he was under any "pressure" as far as I can tell, but I briefly skimmed 16-20 last night so I may have missed where he came under this "pressure".

The cj "bus" is a possibility just to disassociate himself from cj, but the Toro "bus" was him seriously trying to get Toro killed, or at least that's how I read it. And I don't think it was bussing at all.

[[Low Key]]

Ok please link me because I would love to rule out Toro. It will mean we've caught our last two scum.

[chkflip]

I'm only at four votes iirc, that's L-2 right?

The claim was a joke. I said I didn't have my role PM ffs, why would that be serious? Or taken seriously? I know, I know...

mafia is srs bsns

Now, forcing my lynch to regain set-up advantage? How is having conftown at all bad to town? You're more than likely dead tonight, which would leave me for the next night or so. Scum want conftown dead and creating that, if anything, forces

their hand

to waste an NK on me. Their only other viable plan would be to fish for masons.

Neither townchk nor scumchk would joke about a claim with the intent to derail the town. It's all about how you look at it, but I'm comfortable going with whatever you lot wish. It's just a game at the end of the day.

Low Key, I enjoy the fact that you're eager, but confirming Toro doesn't difinitively mean anything.

[zMuffinMan]

he claim was a joke. I said I didn't have my role PM ffs, why would that be serious?

This.

Caught up on my other games, reading this one now.

[[Low Key]]

The following has been logged:

A) CJ being out in the Twilight Zone with his vote and scum list
B) Chkflip being willing to hammer Toro

@Toro: What is your view on Chkflip?

[[Low Key]]

Ya I thought he was joking too. That was my small unspecified reservation.

[chkflip]

If the Vig shoots DK. All 6 votes on DK will be lost. Town then must fit a full lynch before deadline.

If not. We lynch DK. Scum kill someone (

possibly

the vig). We make lynch and DayKill decision based on DK + NK flips, with the full Day length to do it.

As for your 1), 2), 3):
2) Is wrong, because of possible scum WIFOM and that.
3) Again, unlikely, and if/when DK flips Town we won't be needing it so much anyway.
1) Can be done even if it is done D2.

VOTE: cjdrum

There's no town motivated reason to be

this

concerned. The if/when DK flips town comment, too...

[[Low Key]]

No, LK. Bad, LK. He started pushing a Toro vig way, way, way before he was under any "pressure" as far as I can tell, but I briefly skimmed 16-20 last night so I may have missed where he came under this "pressure".

No muffin no. I know what you are talking about now, I looked it up.

Remember you and I talked about how I would agree to vig Toro and BAMMO out pops Snarky saying he wanted to vig Toro. This implicates both Snarky and Toro as scum.

Here is the post: Snarky _Pops_Up

Check 2 posts later for my reaction and further explanation supporting the Snarky-Toro link.

[popsofctown]

No.

I cannot speak for Snarky.

I can speak for the fact that you're dense. My theories are sound, they're the best a vanilla townie who just replaced into the game can do.

So, again, no. No I don't want to waste my time and try again. You guys can waste the rest of this day or we can lynch someone who's one of the

actually

remaining scum.

Pops, thoughts?

[popsofctown]

digging that deep into the game before reading your role pm ain't right.

[[Low Key]]

Wow ya he wasn't joking there either. Obvious alignment obsession.

[popsofctown]

LK, you're being inaccurate, or at the least confusing, when you say Snarky was under serious pressure of being vigged so then he bussed Toro. Although your english was so unclear that in most of your posts I can't tell whether you're saying Toro was in vig danger or Snarky was in vig danger.


That post you referenced doesn't implicate Toro. It's the contrary if anything. It's all bite and no bark. He does crap to actually accumulate any cred from directing the vig to Toro, but he does make the vig more likely to kill Toro. (heck, I did mentally tabulate his preference)

No one is going back through the thread and exonerating Snarky because he weakly pushed the vig to Toro. If anything, he's shirking responsibility for Toro's death.

[[Low Key]]

LK, you're being inaccurate, or at the least confusing, when you say Snarky was under serious pressure of being vigged so then he bussed Toro.

I took that back (see the post below when you frist mentioned that) and it is not necessary to my point anyway.

Although your english was so unclear that in most of your posts I can't tell whether you're saying Toro was in vig danger or Snarky was in vig danger.

We can all agree Toro was in vig danger.

That post you referenced doesn't implicate Toro. It's the contrary if anything. It's all bite and no bark. He does crap to actually accumulate any cred from directing the vig to Toro, but he does make the vig more likely to kill Toro.

Being "twisty" is part of his nature as scum (apparently since he flipped). He clearly "votes" for the Toro vig. You can't get a better bus than that.

No one is going back through the thread and exonerating Snarky because he weakly pushed the vig to Toro. If anything, he's shirking responsibility for Toro's death.

Incorrect. Look closely at the bottom of the post. He is

clearly

trying to show an "I'm a leader on this" attitude towards the Toro vig.

[[Low Key]]

What prompted this? Look only a few posts up. It was me and muffin agreeing to vig Toro.