Open 304 - Hard Boiled, Game Over. Was DY's Dystopia saved?

[Amrun]

Why would I quickhammer RC when I do not think RC is scum?

[Scott Brosius]

I can see the case on RC. It's quite good, actually.

Change of heart from 2 days ago?

[smashbro_of_the_SSS]

btdubs, sorry for not posting lately, been busy the last couple days.

I still think you[don] make sense as scum.

I'm okay with an rc lynch today even though he's likely town because it will tell us several things and bring us closer to finding scum.

Toffee lynch = best

really amrun? how are you ok with lynching town right now? With 8 people left, a town lynch brings us to 3 scum 4 town. that means you (still assuming you're the vig) have to hit right to keep it at lylo, and if not, we're screwed.

I can see the case on RC. It's quite good, actually.

Change of heart from 2 days ago?

this is a really good point. if you we're our vig right now I'd see you as oh so scummy. either way, doesn't matter anymore, you're either going to get killed by mafia as our vig, or the real vig can take care of you tonight (the only chance is toffee, or that the vig lied so that they wouldn't die) either way, I'll just have to move on from this.

@mod, scott unvoted amrun a while ago, but your vc still has his vote on amrun

Yes, Scott unvoted Amrun in his ISO #10, but he then re-voted her in his ISO #12. To my knowledge, his vote hasn't changed since. ~DY

as for don, I'm not convinced of your defense. Even if scum could have gotten a lynch on Amrun to win, it would look incredibly anti-town if you didn't bail off that wagon right away. scott had already unvoted, so you would have needed your two scum buddies to be right online at the same time in order to get that lynch through (i'm not scum, and right now I'm seeing rc as town). which is a pretty long shot there, so why not make the effort to look townie?

the vote hopping I have a problem with is your day 1.

i like the rc vote. but nameloc should go first.

toffee: not a whole lot of substance or "case" behind my suspicion of nameloc, but i'll try to flesh it out later. he just reads like maneuvering scum. rc is really making soft votes as if he's keeping a way to avoid accountablity.

in your first vote/wagon, you openly admit you don't have much of a case on nameloc. yes, reading him like maneuvering scum counts for something, but not enough on it's own. my problem here is you don't stick around to try and make a case on nameloc by pressuring him, but instead...

Sorry. Out of town for a few days. Who are we lynching?

you wait for a few days and then come back with this scummy post. You don't allude to the nameloc wagon... at all. ever. again. no reason that you think he's town, or reason you still thought he was scum. Just "who's everyone voting for?" ***I'm sorry, i was wrong. you did mention nameloc again. when on Day2 you listed him as one of your suspects for scum. again. now reason at all.***

vote: deitykabuto

for really trying to avoid that toffee wagon. do you really think the scum team is newman, amrun, RC? i could get with RC being scum, but not the other two.

lol, here is your new vote, after the post above. you jump on the oh so popular dietyk wagon. well played, you got a mislynch for your scumteam.

8 players. 3 scum. i'll go toffee, nameloc, newman. maybe coyote instead of newman.

this is your next post, your first of day 2 (way to let the end of the day slip on by don). read this post of yours, and the one above this. "do you really think the scumteam is

newman, amrun

, RC? i could get with RC being scum, but not the other two." onto your next post. "i'll go with toffee, nameloc,

newman

"

..."I could get with RC being scum, but not the other two." (including newman) ... "i'll go...newman" ... what? first he is not scum, then he is?

Damnit brosius. Why so stubborn?

unvote vote amrun

We can do it your way. But I reserve the right to say I told you so.

but at least you stuck by your statement about amrun not being scum. especially holding your position when there was a large wagon on her.


... oh. but at least you still have the right to say I told you so.

vote: don_johnson

you're suspects have been spotty throughout this whole game, and conveniently those who have large wagons on them. I don't like it.


I have more to say bout other people, but i really should have left my house 5 minutes ago, so gtg, more tonight hopefully.

[Amrun]

Scott, I already explained how and why RC's defense swayed me in posts that came after that - so yes.

SSS: Obviously, the idea is that we lynch scum, hence me not voting for RC. But if that lynch does happen today, it wouldn't be the worst lynch possible.

Scum to town:

Toffee
Don
HN
RC
SSS
Zmuff
Scott

[HellloooNewman]

So much flip flopping going on here. Seriously, it's like watching a soccer match.

[Amrun]

So many entirely unuseful posts from HN.

[don_johnson]

that would be nice if what you were saying was the truth, smash. check the thread. brosius revoted amrun. did not unvote. i left the wagon at L-1.

you're suspects have been spotty throughout this whole game

here is some vca:

RedCoyote [2] - smashbro_of_the_SSS, toffee,

Amrun (3): Scott Brosius, RedCoyote, Smashbro_of_the_SSS

and:

vote: RedCoyote for being a little too serious about chesskid's claim/not claim.

vote: amrun that hammer was scummy, and I don't like your explanations at all.

you've been voting the same exact suspects.

this is a really good point. if you we're our vig right now I'd see you as oh so scummy. either way, doesn't matter anymore, you're either going to get killed by mafia as our vig, or the real vig can take care of you tonight (the only chance is toffee, or that the vig lied so that they wouldn't die) either way, I'll just have to move on from this.

way to restate the obvious.

as for don, I'm not convinced of your defense.

defense from what? noones made a solid accusation. scott voted me for being amruns partner, rc still hasn't stated "why" he thinks i am scum, only that i "am the slickest", whatever that means. amrun voted for my "vote hopping", where again, the places i hopped strongly suggest that i am town as opposed to scum. she still seems to have me pegged on the scum end, but whatever.

Even if scum could have gotten a lynch on Amrun to win, it would look incredibly anti-town if you didn't bail off that wagon right away. scott had already unvoted, so you would have needed your two scum buddies to be right online at the same time in order to get that lynch through (i'm not scum, and right now I'm seeing rc as town). which is a pretty long shot there, so why not make the effort to look townie?

scott never left the wagon. you are the player who did just what you are accusing me of. you jumped off the wagon at L-2. waayyyy scummier than leaving the wagon at L-1. if amrun is vig and i am scum, i passed a chance at a win. if you read, you will see that my posts revolve around the posts brosius was making at the time. i unvoted right after he conceded my point. i didn't lurk, didn't leave it hanging for a few days. i unvoted because i had an uncounterclaimed vig at L-1. hours later, you unvote.

the vote hopping I have a problem with is your day 1.

i like the rc vote. but nameloc should go first.

toffee: not a whole lot of substance or "case" behind my suspicion of nameloc, but i'll try to flesh it out later. he just reads like maneuvering scum. rc is really making soft votes as if he's keeping a way to avoid accountablity.

in your first vote/wagon,

you openly admit

you don't have much of a case on nameloc.

yes, reading him like maneuvering scum counts for something, but not enough on it's own.

my problem here is you don't stick around to try and make a case on nameloc by pressuring him, but instead...

bolded is me being honest. not really a scum trait. italicized is just bullshit. you've voted players for less and you know it.

Sorry. Out of town for a few days. Who are we lynching?

you wait for a few days and then come back with this scummy post. You don't allude to the nameloc wagon... at all. ever. again. no reason that you think he's town, or reason you still thought he was scum. Just "who's everyone voting for?" ***I'm sorry, i was wrong. you did mention nameloc again. when on Day2 you listed him as one of your suspects for scum. again. now reason at all.***

had gut on nameloc. coming back and asking what the general consensus is? how is that scummy? have you ever achieved a lynch in the game of mafia without appealing to the general consensus? can you lynch someone without a majority? the question also serves as a blanket inquiry as to who everyone is voting and why. reversed the read on nameloc due to mufins play. that is documented in thread.

vote: deitykabuto

for really trying to avoid that toffee wagon. do you really think the scum team is newman, amrun, RC? i could get with RC being scum, but not the other two.

lol, here is your new vote, after the post above. you jump on the oh so popular dietyk wagon. well played, you got a mislynch for your scumteam.

unpopular wagons don't result in lynches. town has as much, if not more incentive to lynch someone. mafia have an nk which they can discuss as a team. only vig can nk for town, and they have to make the decision alone and with much less information. lynching is towns greatest power in the fight against scum. where were you at the end of the day? who were you voting?

8 players. 3 scum. i'll go toffee, nameloc, newman. maybe coyote instead of newman.

this is your next post, your first of day 2 (way to let the end of the day slip on by don). read this post of yours, and the one above this. "do you really think the scumteam is

newman, amrun

, RC? i could get with RC being scum, but not the other two." onto your next post. "i'll go with toffee, nameloc,

newman

"

and? its not okay to have suspects? is it not okay for your suspect list to change? are you reading my posts in iso? or are you putting them in context with other things going on in thread at the time?

..."I could get with RC being scum, but not the other two." (including newman) ... "i'll go...newman" ... what? first he is not scum, then he is?

yup. mafia is a dynamic game. focusing on one suspect above all others is termed "tunneling". do your reads never change throughout the thread?

Damnit brosius. Why so stubborn?

unvote vote amrun

We can do it your way. But I reserve the right to say I told you so.

but at least you stuck by your statement about amrun not being scum. especially holding your position when there was a large wagon on her.


... oh. but at least you still have the right to say I told you so.

as scum, if amrun is vig, i had the win. if amrun is vig, then my read on her was correct. also, if you read the above post it is entirely consistent with my explanation of the vote to others who have inquired.

vote: don_johnson

you're suspects have been spotty throughout this whole game, and conveniently those who have large wagons on them. I don't like it.


I have more to say bout other people, but i really should have left my house 5 minutes ago, so gtg, more tonight hopefully.

you could have at least mentioned who else you had things to say about. but oh well. by not identifying your reads, you can always lurk the day and use the old "well i didn't get a chance," excuse.

well done. reading is tech. try it next time.


has toffee posted recently? i have some issues with his play. the distancing from the dk wagon and what not, but i would be more comfortable with the wagon if he has a chance to come back and post. we should be getting claims as well, rc is obv not cc to vig, we should at least get that info from toffee if we are going to lynch him. if amrun is not vig, then lynching the vig loses the game. imo, newman is becoming the most obvscum. "sitting in the stands" is scummy. come out and play.

ITT, we no longer have don_johnson voting for himself.

[don_johnson]

ebwop: smash has not been voting the exact same suspects. i don't believe i was voting amrun at any point. smash has haad two major suspects: my top suspect, and the uncounterclaimed vig. so whatever. i think you guys can get the point. calling my voting "spotty", when his own voting is pretty lazy and uninspired is a poor accusation.

mod: prod toffee?

Toffee has since posted between your request and my seeing it, so he dodges the wrath of my, uh, prod, for now. ~DY

[don_johnson]

unvote, vote: redcoyote

hope i didn't lynch myself there.

mod: the self vote was unintentional, my quote tags failed, can you fix that?

LOLZ, no, you weren't even close to lynching yourself. Fixing quote tags now.

[RedCoyote]

if i am scum, who are my partners? toffee and newman? smasbro? seriously dude, i'll lynch anyone over me today out of that scummy pool, but i would prefer to lynch RC. i have no issue whatsoever taking a bullet tonight if we get a scum lynch.

unvote, vote: redcoyote

Yeah, I figured you'd backtrack from your word, scum.

[zMuffinMan]

lol, what?

There are so many things wrong with #409.

Scott, I already explained how and why RC's defense swayed me in posts that came after that - so yes.

Actually, no, you didn't really explain how and why RC's defense swayed you (you said it was good and it swayed you) and you also never really said you thought he was town (just that you weren't convinced he was scum, which changed a bit later to likely town).

But, if you're committed to thinking he's town now, and you can explain how and why RC's defense swayed you, I'd like to hear it.

PS: not lynching toffee until he posts or he gets replaced.

[don_johnson]

i don't understand 409. what "word" are you referring to? you are my top choice for lynch. you have confirmed that you are

not

the vig. if you guys want to lynch someone else i am willing. if we are going to lynch toffee i don't have a problem with it, but i would prefer that toffee post and say "no, i am not the vig." if amrun is scum and real vig is hiding, then we need to make sure we do not lynch the vig as it means auto-lose for town. so not sure what you are implying with 409, but it is par for the course for you this game. you've done nothing but run interference with your giant wall posts and you have still... still failed to justify your original vote on me. you would think that in one of those gigantic posts of yours, you could have found room to squeeze in a "don is scum because...". but you haven't. so whatever. i'm waiting to hear from toffee, and i am fine with lynching you. the "unvote, vote rc" was because my quote tags failed and i may have accidentally self voted. my vote was on youy before that. i have no reason or incentive to move it from you at this time, so how is keeping my vote on my top suspect anything but "keeping my word"?

[Amrun]

Scott: He noticed the same things I noticed about toffee day 1, iirc, and as I said today, he noticed the same things I found scummy in both don and Hello Newman. I also think he defended satisfactorily against the valid points brought against him.

I have posted my scum/town list, so you can see exactly where I stand on things. I think the scumteam is toffee/don/HN. If one of those is wrong, RC falls into the slot that was wrong, as things stand right now.

Assuming toffee does not get lynched today and that a replacement isn't found that somehow turns the slot around, I will be shooting toffee tonight.

[don_johnson]

Scott: He noticed the same things I noticed about toffee day 1, iirc, and as I said today,

he noticed the same things I found scummy

in both

don

and Hello Newman.

please point out what he has said about me that you agree with. and nothing too recent please. you stated you agreed with his points earlier. other than "he is the slickest of the three", rc had not "pointed out" anything "scummy" about don. find these posts and quote what it was you agreed with.

[zMuffinMan]

but i would prefer that toffee post and say "no, i am not the vig."

Actually, now that I think about it, he's not the vig. And no one will counter-claim Amrun because the vig kill last night was bad and no one will be able to properly explain the logic behind it. The likelihood of toffee being the vig is so, so, so, so low that it's not really a concern.

[don_johnson]

How do you know who the vig kill was?

[zMuffinMan]

Why does it matter who the vig kill was? They were both terrible.

[don_johnson]

It matters whether or not you know who it was. Which is what your post implied. Way to avoid the question.

[zMuffinMan]

No, not really. I said the vig kill was bad. I didn't imply anything deeper than that.

You asked a leading question, and the foundation of the question is wrong, so I avoided it.

[don_johnson]

Meh. I have a general town read on you, but thats the second thing youve posted recently which has irked me. Ill explain more when im not posting from my phone. Main point being: im not comfortable lynching toffee until he posts.

[toffee]

Oh god, so much to catch up just in 2 days. I still haven't finished reading page #17, but I need to go to work soon. I'll try to catch up more soon as I got home today.

For now..

aside from that, I'm anxiously awaiting toffee's stance on what happened at night, and the wagons toDay. also, scott and dj, i really want to start seeing more from you. I'm thinking one of you is the last scum scum slot, and neither of you is looking particularly townie to me right now. step it up. post more. do move than vote.

Not much on night thing, I could go w/ Amrun's claim.
Before Amrun claimed, I've already re-read her, her votes on popular wagons didn't read like scum much anyway. That's why she didn't get my vote, while RC did, definitely a good wagon to me.
About RC case, Muffin said it so much better than I. But it sure best if you guys just re-reading the game yourself.
Not much suspicion said about anyone from RC. His big case on D1 was on chess, while on me and DK he seems just following the crowd much, sudden while it's hot.
And it seems majority would like my lynch, but no one ever gave me the case. I don't think this is a one way game, is it?
Atm IGMEOY on don for your vote hop thing.

[Amrun]

Are you guys serious? The vig kill was Surye, which I have explained several times. It was terrible because I totally forgot he claimed. :/

[Amrun]

For Don: This is the point that RC pointed out that I noticed myself about you that helped me convince myself that RC should not be lynched today. I don't know why you assert that RC did not present any points against you except "don is slick," when that is patently false. Misrep much?

I'm not voting don today unless you find a better reason than him being slick and possibly buddying me.

You're a very literal guy, you know that? No, but this is actually pretty reasonable of you. Of course I don't expect you to just accept that he's scum because I told you so. My head is working a mile a minute trying to rethink this game over again. I would tell you though, since you seem interested, to look back over don's little vote jumping today from me to Amrun and back again. That's just him trying to assess which "town faction", for lack of a better term, will get him the quickest mislynch. He thought that Amrun might actually get it for a second.

He's virtually guaranteed to be scum at this point. He's the one common denominator in almost everyone suspicions.

If it's not a RC lynch today, it's a toffee lynch.

Does not compute.

But I agree with the point that toffee would probably be an easier lynch to coalesce around. It will just keep the scumteam a little bit stronger going into tomorrow is all, but I understand I'm speaking from a position of being, in your eyes, the more likely scum candidate than don is. Honestly I was being somewhat tongue-in-cheek with you when I said don was slicker than toffee. I didn't mean that in the sense that those should be valid grounds with which

you

would cast a vote against him for. I was answering more along the lines of why

I

was voting don over toffee, not why you should (although you're welcome to take my word for it).

[don_johnson]

I thought that was after the fact. In his original vote post he presented nothing against me other than the "hes the slickest" comment. How can a direct quote be misrep? Also, as vig, you should realize that your lynch ends the game. Why would scum don jump off that wagon? Brosius never unvoted, and as soon as he conceded my point I unvoted. There was no need for me to unvote and switch to red. I am going for my top suspect. If you want toffee then im ok with it, but I dont get why you cant see through rc and his walls o bullshit and fluff. Whatever.

[Amrun]

It was not after the face.

Your "need" to unvote was to look pro-town when it was obvious your buddies weren't going to come in and hammer.

But I also don't want to shoot you tonight. I perhaps should have placed HN over you in my list.

Also, please vote for toffee.