Open 304 - Hard Boiled, Game Over. Was DY's Dystopia saved?

[zMuffinMan]

toffee lynch is cool. let's do it.

Unvote

VOTE: Toffee

[don_johnson]

It was not after the face.

Your "need" to unvote was to look pro-town when it was obvious your buddies weren't going to come in and hammer.

my vote sat on you just over 3 hours. if it had been 12 hours, or 24 hours, then you might have a point. who the fuck needs to "look town" when you're one vote from a win? also, once you got to L-1 brosius posted 3 times and did not unvote. so wtf? if anything, the timing in which i unvoted should make me look more town to you(if you really are the vig). the fact that you don't see that is kind of troublesome. smash unvoted off you at L-2. and, he didn't place his vote elsewhere. meaning, he was riding the vote on you. he didn't have another suspect. he was unvoting, just to unvote. i.e. if anyone on that page was "trying to look town", it was smash.

But I also don't want to shoot you tonight. I perhaps should have placed HN over you in my list.

Also, please vote for toffee.

fine.

unvote, vote: toffee

----------------


muffin: i am not a big supporter of "scumslips", as i think its an easy way for scum to exploit poorly written townies, and i have seen townies make all sorts of false "slips". but this:

No, getting you lynched doesn't result in a scum win, because the vig can still vig correctly.

and this:

And no one will counter-claim Amrun because the vig kill last night was bad and no one will be able to properly explain the logic behind it.

raised my eyebrows. the first post imo, implies that you know rc is town.(this obviously conflicted with my read on him, so i didn't make much of it.) when i read the second statement i thought you were referring to the surye kill. if amrun is scum, then he might not be telling the truth, so the only player who knows who the actual vig kill is, is the vig. get it? your response is ok, because you state that you were referring to the kill, and not either player specifically. so really, its nothing.

[don_johnson]

i think thats L-1

[Amrun]

Last minute change, in case anyone pulls anything sneaky.

Will shoot HN tonight if toffee is lynched.

[don_johnson]

Ftr: I think its toffee/red/newman. So that works for me. I could put smash in for any one of those three, but I think everytime I play with smash I think hes scum. So whatever. Shoot straight.

[HellloooNewman]

Your gonna shoot me tonight Amrun? Just another in a long line of dumb mistakes by you this game. First the quickhammer, then the awful VIG kill. Now your gonna use your last shot on me. LMAO.

What exactly is your case on me? That I'm a "lurker". I play the game with the free time I have. I work full time, have kids, a wife, a house...these things take priorty over Mafia. Is it that I led the case on DK yesterday? He was scummy as shit, what can I say.

I think we have this thing nailed here. RC, toffee and either SSSS or Don. Lynch/VIG the first two today, then regardless of the order of the last 2 lynches, we got the game in our hands.

For the record (if Amrun does something stupid before I come back on) I'm leaning towards SSSS over Don at the moment.

[Amrun]

When did I ever say you are a lurker? You're not.

You did, however, buddy DH day 1. More importantly, all of your reactions today have come off as horrendously fake.

[DarthYoshi]

Day Two, Votecount the Fourth

Amrun (1): Scott Brosius
RedCoyote (2): toffee, HellloooNewman
toffee (4): RedCoyote, Amrun, zMuffinMan, don_johnson
don_johnson (1): Smashbro_of_the_SSS

The deadline is 7:30 am PDT, Saturday, June 4. With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch, and 4 to no-lynch.

As ever, any issues, please let me know.

[smashbro_of_the_SSS]

that would be nice if what you were saying was the truth, smash. check the thread. brosius revoted amrun. did not unvote. i left the wagon at L-1.

scott not unvoting is true, that point is my bad. I went back through the thread, cause it did look weird that he still was voting her, and I thought I saw an unvote. point still stands that it was the only townish thing to do, unvoting, especially if your scumbuddies weren't on.

you've been voting the same exact suspects.

yes. but I've agreed with cases and added to them. you only vote. End of Day 1 you say you wouldn't believe Amrun is scum. Amrun is not on you list of four choices in your first post of Day 2. Then you vote Amrun. How is that justified?

defense from what? noones made a solid accusation. scott voted me for being amruns partner, rc still hasn't stated "why" he thinks i am scum, only that i "am the slickest", whatever that means. amrun voted for my "vote hopping", where again, the places i hopped strongly suggest that i am town as opposed to scum. she still seems to have me pegged on the scum end, but whatever.

the places you've put your vote is the popular wagons. doesn't mean you're town.

scott never left the wagon. you are the player who did just what you are accusing me of. you jumped off the wagon at L-2. waayyyy scummier than leaving the wagon at L-1. if amrun is vig and i am scum, i passed a chance at a win. if you read, you will see that my posts revolve around the posts brosius was making at the time. i unvoted right after he conceded my point. i didn't lurk, didn't leave it hanging for a few days. i unvoted because i had an uncounterclaimed vig at L-1. hours later, you unvote.

I wasn't able to unvote because I didn't look at this game. in my first post I unvoted also. I'll give you that it's not as strong a point because I was wrong about scott, but it was the only townish thing to do in that situation.

bolded is me being honest. not really a scum trait. italicized is just bullshit. you've voted players for less and you know it.

I'm sorry, but I'm not just accepting your words as honest. In other games, maybe. But I've been changing that as I've played. If I do vote someone on little info, I ask them questions to get a better read.

had gut on nameloc. coming back and asking what the general consensus is? how is that scummy? have you ever achieved a lynch in the game of mafia without appealing to the general consensus? can you lynch someone without a majority? the question also serves as a blanket inquiry as to who everyone is voting and why. reversed the read on nameloc due to mufins play. that is documented in thread.

I would be ok with that quote if you actually followed up on it. all you did was vote DK right after. You did not comment on any of the wagons that have happened, aside from one line to justify your DK vote. In mafia, yes, you need to get a majority on your side for a lynch to go through. I know that. But you shouldn't just agree with everyone without putting forth much effort to justify yourself. That's scummy.

Yes, you did talk about muffin. But on Day 2. On day 1, you should have come back and at least mentioned you still found nameloc scummy. but you didn't. Why not mention nameloc anymore if you still thought he was scummy? To me, it looked like you just gave up the nameloc wagon cause it fizzled out and joined DK cause it was strong.

unpopular wagons don't result in lynches. town has as much, if not more incentive to lynch someone. mafia have an nk which they can discuss as a team. only vig can nk for town, and they have to make the decision alone and with much less information. lynching is towns greatest power in the fight against scum. where were you at the end of the day? who were you voting?

No one. I had talked to RC, saw him as town. I was going to join up with the DK wagon when I went to check out the vote count. and what do ya know? It was alraedy a lynch.

and? its not okay to have suspects? is it not okay for your suspect list to change? are you reading my posts in iso? or are you putting them in context with other things going on in thread at the time?

you give little to no reasons for your change of suspects. I understand changing suspects, but you need to do more than voting, or it looks like you're just voting to vote with everyone else.

yup. mafia is a dynamic game. focusing on one suspect above all others is termed "tunneling". do your reads never change throughout the thread?

yeah, they do. but I say when they do, and why. you drop suspects without reason until much later.

as scum, if amrun is vig, i had the win. if amrun is vig, then my read on her was correct. also, if you read the above post it is entirely consistent with my explanation of the vote to others who have inquired.

yeah, if you were scum (which I believe you are) you had the win. which means you would want to vote amrun, even though you act as though you thought amrun was town. which is scummy, voting someone you have a town read on.

you could have at least mentioned who else you had things to say about. but oh well. by not identifying your reads, you can always lurk the day and use the old "well i didn't get a chance," excuse.

sorry, but I was late picking up my brother, so I needed to go. I planned on coming back. hi.

[smashbro_of_the_SSS]

alright, so, in other news. scott. why have you not unvoted yet?

also, what exactly is the case on toffee? I've been throwing toffee in as my number 2 to hopefully add some pressure, but I feel like i can say this now cause she's at L-1 anyway. I agree that toffee has been incredibly anti-town, but aside from that feeling, I don't remember the exact points of the case. can someone outline it for me?

only other thing I was gonna say was that RC looked townish to me from his repsonses, so I'm not on board with that.

[don_johnson]

that would be nice if what you were saying was the truth, smash. check the thread. brosius revoted amrun. did not unvote. i left the wagon at L-1.

scott not unvoting is true, that point is my bad. I went back through the thread, cause it did look weird that he still was voting her, and I thought I saw an unvote. point still stands that it was the only townish thing to do, unvoting,

especially if your scumbuddies weren't on

.

italicized the lolz part. if my scumbuddies weren't on the wagon, then unvoting would be the dumbest thing to do in the entire world. vig lynch = scum win. we've been over this.

you've been voting the same exact suspects.

yes. but I've agreed with cases and added to them. you only vote. End of Day 1 you say you wouldn't believe Amrun is scum. Amrun is not on you list of four choices in your first post of Day 2. Then you vote Amrun. How is that justified?

vote was out of frustration. please read it in context with my conversation with scott brosius. in iso it looks like an unjustified vote hop. in thread, it looks like what it is. me getting fed up with brosius and his "amrun must be lynched" policy. as soon as brosius conceded the point that i had made earlier(you know, that amrun didn't need to be lynched even if he was scum), i unvoted. town move unless i am scum with two other players already on the wagon, or amrun.

defense from what? noones made a solid accusation. scott voted me for being amruns partner, rc still hasn't stated "why" he thinks i am scum, only that i "am the slickest", whatever that means. amrun voted for my "vote hopping", where again, the places i hopped strongly suggest that i am town as opposed to scum. she still seems to have me pegged on the scum end, but whatever.

the places you've put your vote is the popular wagons. doesn't mean you're town.

doesn't mean i'm scum.

scott never left the wagon. you are the player who did just what you are accusing me of. you jumped off the wagon at L-2. waayyyy scummier than leaving the wagon at L-1. if amrun is vig and i am scum, i passed a chance at a win. if you read, you will see that my posts revolve around the posts brosius was making at the time. i unvoted right after he conceded my point. i didn't lurk, didn't leave it hanging for a few days. i unvoted because i had an uncounterclaimed vig at L-1. hours later, you unvote.

I wasn't able to unvote because I didn't look at this game. in my first post I unvoted also. I'll give you that it's not as strong a point because I was wrong about scott, but it was the only townish thing to do in that situation.

of course you were unable to vote. you didn't look at this game. so why on earth would scum don unvote when he could give a lame ass excuse like "sorry, i just didn't look at this game" and ride the vote to a sure fire scum win? seriously. at some point you have to concede this point. and considering it is the point which appears to be the lynch-pin of tha case against me, i will have to say that this case is ridiculous. again: why the hell would scum don worry about being "townish" if he has one or two scumbuddies floating around to hammer the vig? the glove don't fit.

bolded is me being honest. not really a scum trait. italicized is just bullshit. you've voted players for less and you know it.

I'm sorry, but I'm not just accepting your words as honest. In other games, maybe. But I've been changing that as I've played. If I do vote someone on little info, I ask them questions to get a better read.

where are my questions? you are voting me for very little, but your post at me contains little to respond directly to.

had gut on nameloc. coming back and asking what the general consensus is? how is that scummy? have you ever achieved a lynch in the game of mafia without appealing to the general consensus? can you lynch someone without a majority? the question also serves as a blanket inquiry as to who everyone is voting and why. reversed the read on nameloc due to mufins play. that is documented in thread.

I would be ok with that quote if you actually followed up on it. all you did was vote DK right after. You did not comment on any of the wagons that have happened, aside from one line to justify your DK vote. In mafia, yes, you need to get a majority on your side for a lynch to go through. I know that. But you shouldn't just agree with everyone without putting forth much effort to justify yourself. That's scummy.

which wagons happened? this sounds funny coming from the guy who later admits that he simply missed the end of the day, but also admits that he was going to join the same wagon he's criticizing me for joining.

Yes, you did talk about muffin. But on Day 2. On day 1, you should have come back and at least mentioned you still found nameloc scummy. but you didn't. Why not mention nameloc anymore if you still thought he was scummy? To me, it looked like you just gave up the nameloc wagon cause it fizzled out and joined DK cause it was strong.

again. you lurked the end of the day away. i believe nameloc did as well. and at the start of day 2, i talked about nameloc again. muffin posted well and helped change my mind. its all clearly documented in the thread. basically, you are saying that i did do all the things i should have done, but i should have done them sooner? like the way you waited until amrun was at L-2 to unvote him? shouldn't you have done that sooner? go ahead and blame rl. its the scummy thing to do. in fact, scumdon could have floated the L-1 on amrun for quite some time and then blamed rl. that would have been scummy.

No one. I had talked to RC, saw him as town. I was going to join up with the DK wagon when I went to check out the vote count. and what do ya know? It was alraedy a lynch.

in other words, you're criticizing me for leaving my top suspect for the same suspect you yourself were planning on voting for. brilliant.

and? its not okay to have suspects? is it not okay for your suspect list to change? are you reading my posts in iso? or are you putting them in context with other things going on in thread at the time?

you give little to no reasons for your change of suspects. I understand changing suspects, but you need to do more than voting, or it looks like you're just voting to vote with everyone else.

i am voting to vote with everyone else most of the time. other times i am voting for pressure. some times i vote out of frustration. i'm voting. unlike you, who seem content to coast through the game and avoid accountability. voting is pro-town. moving your vote around is pro-town. regardless of your own alignment, your vote pattern is one of the only tangible forms of evidence in the game of mafia. who you voted for, when you voted for them, and why. its evidence. townies aren't afraid to leave evidence because they have nothing to hide. scum have to be much more careful with their votes.

yup. mafia is a dynamic game. focusing on one suspect above all others is termed "tunneling". do your reads never change throughout the thread?

yeah, they do. but I say when they do, and why. you drop suspects without reason until much later.

looks like a difference in playstyle to me.

as scum, if amrun is vig, i had the win. if amrun is vig, then my read on her was correct. also, if you read the above post it is entirely consistent with my explanation of the vote to others who have inquired.

yeah, if you were scum (which I believe you are) you had the win. which means you would want to vote amrun, even though you act as though you thought amrun was town. which is scummy, voting someone you have a town read on.

read it in context. the amrun vote comes as a direct result of my conversation with scott brosius and is removed when said conversation is resolved to my satisfaction.

you could have at least mentioned who else you had things to say about. but oh well. by not identifying your reads, you can always lurk the day and use the old "well i didn't get a chance," excuse.

sorry, but I was late picking up my brother, so I needed to go. I planned on coming back. hi.

[/quote]

nice excuse. sounds like something scumdon could have said after he let that L-1 amrun vote ride for 24 hours. oh. that's right. he only let it ride for three.

[don_johnson]

and i love that you like the toffee wagon but won't hammer it. just lilke toffee liked the rc wagon, but wouldn't join it. second thoughts on the newman shot after this poor display. but whatever. its not my shot.

[zMuffinMan]

the first post imo, implies that you know rc is town.(this obviously conflicted with my read on him, so i didn't make much of it.) when i read the second statement i thought you were referring to the surye kill. if amrun is scum, then he might not be telling the truth, so the only player who knows who the actual vig kill is, is the vig. get it? your response is ok, because you state that you were referring to the kill, and not either player specifically. so really, its nothing.

I knew after I said the first one that someone would make an issue out of it, because I read it after it was posted and noticed it myself. In my defense though, I was tired and I was talking in context of the previous post (where RC was saying either Amrun-vig or RC-town getting lynched didn't make a difference).

[RedCoyote]

Yeah, SSSS, I don't get why you didn't hammer just now. Is there something specific you are waiting for?

[RedCoyote]

I'm kind of pissed off at myself because I should've known better than to vote don a couple days ago. There really is no sense trying for anyone's lynch besides toffee here since the scum team has thrown her overboard (understandably) and the town knows she's scum.

SSSS, as scum, it doesn't make sense for him to not hammer toffee here. Wouldn't he have known he was just going to get more flak for not doing it? Maybe I'm trying to out WIFOM myself, but I'm pretty sure toffee and HN are scum, but now I'm really torn on the third. I want to say don because I know he backed off from his word, saying that he'd be absolutely willing to lynch toffee and then hesitating to do so while he kept trying to sell everyone on my wagon, but I also don't like how SSSS is acting like toffee isn't the most practical lynch here.

Ugh, I just keep thinking about D3. It's going to be a hell of a lot of walls.

[HellloooNewman]

Oh hell, I may as well do it.

Unvote/Vote - Toffee

I can only hope that Amrun makes her first good decision of the game tonight.

[smashbro_of_the_SSS]

ugh. i said i liked the wagon. I wanted to see how toffee was reacting to it, and then decide if she was scum or not, because my read isn't definite yet.

I WAS WAITING FOR A CONCISE SET OF POINTS OF WHY TOFFEE WAS SCUMMY. I SAID THAT WHILE I THOUGHT TOFFEE WAS ANTI-TOWN, I WASN'T SURE IF SHE WAS ACTUALLY SCUM OR JUST AN INACTIVE TOWNIE.

I'm not hammering a wagon until I'm sure of it. Sorry for not doing what all of you wanted, but I wasn't ready for a lynch.

[zMuffinMan]

Well

Now the pressure is on Amrun to redeem herself.

If you fail, you lose town the game, Amrun. Get it right.

No pressure though.

[Amrun]

:/

We can totally vote and do majority on my shot >.>

But with 3 scum alive, not sure if it is a good idea.

People can express preference, though. I'll take it all under advisement.

[DarthYoshi]

Day Two, Votecount the Fifth

A lynch has been reached.

Amrun (1): Scott Brosius
RedCoyote (1): toffee

toffee (5): RedCoyote, Amrun, zMuffinMan, don_johnson, HellloooNewman

don_johnson (1): Smashbro_of_the_SSS

The deadline is 7:30 am PDT, Saturday, June 4. With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch, and 4 to no-lynch.

As ever, any issues, please let me know.

Stay tuned for deathscene and toffee's flip.

[DarthYoshi]

Accusations flew back and forth all day. At first, it looked like the town was going nowhere--I was about to step up and suggest that maybe they hire this pair of consultants I've had some dealings with. They're great at

saving money for evil, soulless corporations

catching scumz, and hey, if they have giant mancrushes on Michael Bolton, dealwithit. At least the guy was funny on Saturday Night Live.

But just as I was about to address the crowd, people began to point at toffee and scream, "Scum!" She looked around, and told everyone they had jumped to that conclusion way too fast--they should have used her "Jump to Conclusions" mat instead to make a more sound decision.

I don't think I need to tell you how persuasive the lynch mob found that defense.

After the town had strung toffee up, I was actually at a loss. There was no note from the mafia to be had, so I reluctantly turned back to my super-deluxe motel 6 room (ironically enough, I am writing this from a motel 6 room IRL) to watch some cheesy kung fu and maybe look up the word "money laundering" in the dictionary for shits n' giggles.

When I arrived, though, I found what I had been waiting for--slid under my door was another note. It read:

Today, you may have been on the right path
But now prepare to face the final two's wrath
We shall turn this town yet into an epic bloodbath
So that we might finally have the last laugh

toffee,

Mafia Goon,

was lynched Day Two.

It is now Night Two. Any and all night actions are due to me via PM by 7:00 am PDT, Monday, May 30.

[DarthYoshi]

I tried to sleep soundly tonight with the knowledge that a third of the mafia faction had been dispatched, but deep down, I knew it would only make them more bloodthirsty for revenge. In the middle of my sleepless night, I could hear a couple of voices from the parking lot outside of my super-deluxe motel 6 room (where I am not writing from ATM IRL, thank G-d). I couldn’t be sure, but this is what the conversation sounded like…

“Hello, HelloNewman.”
“Amrun.”
“Fancy seeing you here at this hour.”
“Yes, well, I’ve had a lot on my mind.”
“Really, like what?”
“Oh, the usual stuff. My choice in careers, mostly.”
“What…do you mean?”
“Well, my high school guidance counselor used to ask us what you'd do if you had a million dollars and you didn't have to work. And invariably what you'd say was supposed to be your career. So, if you wanted to fix old cars then you're supposed to be an auto mechanic.”
“So what did you say?”
“I never had an answer. I guess that’s why I’m working for

Initech

the mafia.”
“I KNEW IT!!!!!!”
“What, how do you mean, you knew it?!”
“Because I came here tonight to kill you. For the good of the town”
“Fancy that…I came here to kill YOU. But for the good of, well, myself.”
“That’s horrible!”
“How dare you judge me? I mean, what are you? You think you’re some kind of angel here? No, you’re just this

penny-stealing

townie-shooting…man. Er, woman.”
“Well, that may be. But at least I never

slept with Lumberg

worked for the mafia!”
“Oh yeah? Well, say hello to—“

And then I heard gunshots. Two of them. I rushed out, and just like I had thought, there lay the bodies of both Amrun and HellloooNewman, both with gunshot wounds to the heart.

I hurried back to my room to call the police, but by the time I arrived, there was yet another note taped to my door. Damn, those scum are quick…

No matter how great your might
Against me you cannot fight
Amrun was killed for doing right
For it was Newman who was in her gun’s sight
But still this town’s demise will be my delight
Though I am now alone, I shall yet complete my plight
And beware my revenge, my rage that you now ignite
For Hard Boiled: Day Three is facing the dawning light

Amrun,

Town-Aligned Vigilante,

was shot Night Two.

HellloooNewman

,

Mafia Goon,

was shot Night Two.

It is now Day Three. With 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch, and 3 to no-lynch. The deadline is 6:00 am PDT, Monday, June 13 (I realize that is 14 days and not 12. Consider it a gift.)

[zMuffinMan]

So anyway, D2/N2 made up for the horrible start to the game. I'm going to go back and look through the thread again for toffee/newman links before I do anything, but I'm still suspicious of RC. Scott is obvtown and don is a town read of mine so at this point I'm thinking one of smash or RC, and since it's 4:1 this doesn't seem like too big an issue. Will see what I find after re-reading.

[zMuffinMan]

Actually, I really need to think through D2 properly. There were two scum on the RC wagon with me at one point.

[don_johnson]

agreed. smash or rc. at 4:1 i think we can lynch both safely. would like to get it right the first time though. should be a challenge since they both read scummy as hell imo. i'd like some brosius...

does anyone think muffin could still be scum? the original nameloc slot was rough, but i'd like opinions. i'll get some vca when i get a chance. today is a holiday.