Newbie 1104 -- Game over

[Otolia]

That's a nice tunelling there, TS. I'll cover your points as soon as possible.

[Twistedspoon]

ha

tunneling?

I'm responding to your case

[Twistedspoon]

tunneling is when you concentrate on one player

right now

1) I'm responding to your (pitiful) case so obviously you're important to reply to
2) you're a very confident scum read of mine so why not?

anyways your 'He's an IC' argument doesn't cut it for me

That's bascically your whole argument

you mention something about SEs too but you had no conclusion or point there. I'm not buddying to them if that's your point since I've been Espe's first and biggest suspector.

[chkflip]

Also, what is a null read? Neutral?

Yes.

I also think your "self preservation motivated" theory seems even more fitting here. Scum wants to live.

[Twistedspoon]

Also, what is a null read? Neutral?

Yes.

I also think your "self preservation motivated" theory seems even more fitting here. Scum wants to live.

hmm

I must admit i didn't read chao's post in the rage mood I was in after reading otolia's, but on the topic of self preservation I've already mentioned I'm willing to risk my life for the otolia flip

if by the offchance otolia is town then he should accept his own lynch with open arms since I've offered myself for the d2 lynch and he's sure I'm scum.

however I doubt otolia's town and I doubt he'll accept my proposal

[Otolia]

1. His threat towards the town

before anyone

even considers

hammering I want a list of reads from CC and Otolia and a juicy catchup post from espe

because they shall incur my

wrath

if they do

I'm telling the other townies not to hammer at this point and you're saying this is a bad thing?
This is awful from you.

But this is in

total contradiction

with another post from you :

Now we have to decide. Do we lynch a VT because we don't want to force more claims or do we target another player ?

no. this L-1'ing will just continue forever with everyone claiming VT

When you say, you don't want the outing to continue, I assumed you wanted to lynch him, but then you begged for a postpone. Before calling out people for telling so-called "nonsense", you should take a good look at yourself.

2. His focus on SEs

Excellent strawmanning here

1)

You're not an SE

. If you somehow are but aren't listed as one in the mod's first post then you can hardly use that as evidence against me. The first post say's you're not an SE so all of this evidence is null. Not that i even see anything wrong with asking about SEs. They're in here for a reason.
I like how you cherry-picked your Quotes too. You missed all the ones out where i wen't asking SEs to get a poor representation

Saying you didn't know I am not an SE is a lie. You can see my join-date, if after that you don't check if I had previous games on this website (one of which I mentioned in an earlier post) then you are not scumhunting. Getting infos on other players is key in a mafia game. You are ought to know that as an IC. And I didn't cherry-picked your quotes, I included

all of them

where you were for reads. Another lie to dust !

I'm putting my head on the line here. I have everything to lose if I'm scum.
This is my ultimatium. I honestly can't see why everyone else is so blind to this scuminess

And here is the cherry on the cake, you are blackmailing the town. How anti-town is that ?! I said I was against your obvious ways of manipulating the opinion in your favor but that's low. You have done too much in favor of my lynch and you can't back down now, so you are using a HUGE loudspeaker to make more noise that you were doing previously. And another lie to your account : "I have everything to lose if I'm scum". So far I know, there are two mafia players in newbie games. Even if one of them die, the other can still win the game. Saying you have everything to lose is something that reinforces my case of the wounded animal because you really do feel threatened by my answers.

Now, I purposefully let two strange things in my reads. The first is that I didn't change my vote and the second is that I put Noragar in my townish reads even though I am still voting him. Now that I am fairly convinced that TS is mafia, noragar can't be his scummate for the same reasons frostbite can't be scum with me. TS started a wagon on noragar and scums don't start wagons on each other in D1 mostly because it scares newbies to be bussed. Furthermore, I didn't vote you because you can get a lot of informations on the IC if he get past N1. Newbies fear the IC because he is supposed to be more experienced than them. Thus newbie-scum are more often than not tempted to NK the IC in N1. As much as I think he is scum, letting him live through N1 would have given us much more information on the scumteam than a lynch D1. Remember that lynching a scum D1 isn't as dangerous for the scumteam as it seems, because ties are really difficult to make when it comes down to LyLo situations.

You are tunelling me because you are obsessed with lynching me without being able to see the bigger pictures.

if by the offchance otolia is town then he should accept his own lynch with open arms since I've offered myself for the d2 lynch and he's sure I'm scum.
however I doubt otolia's town and I doubt he'll accept my proposal

Manipulating the town once again. It's not because I am a townie that I should resign. I've done it before and I felt so dumb for the rest of the game when the town decided me not to lynch me after all. Play to your win condition is the biggest rule of mafia. A member of the town may have real incentives to survive and the fact that you are ignoring this point is what makes your case a tunelling ones.

[Twistedspoon]

have this blown away in my head

can't post now though

have to be tommorow

[chkflip]

Right off the bat, Oto, I think you meant "A member of the mafia" with that last sentence, amirite?

[Otolia]

I haven't decided if I want to see him dead tonight. But noragar definitely can't be lynched today UNVOTE: noragar

have this blown away in my head

can't post now though

have to be tommorow

If I were the same kind of player as you are, I would say you are eluding the fight. But I'm not. Feel free to come after the town has expressed more point of views on your (and my) actions.

EDIT : After thinking about it a little bit, I think we could be in a marvelous case of town vs. town. Most of the townies haven't take position on this and so didn't Espeonage. That's really disturbing me.

Right off the bat, Oto, I think you meant "A member of the mafia" with that last sentence, amirite?

No. Take an hint.

[chkflip]

Actually, that was a loaded question. Your case would make even

less

sense if it said that.

A member of the town may have real incentives to survive and the fact that you are ignoring this point is what makes your case a tunelling ones.

Incorrect use of the word tunneling aside, a member of town (especially in a Newb game) has

less

actual incentive, if any at all, to live to the end of the game other than to have the ability to say, "Hey, I endgamed. Cool story eh bros?" That's moreso a mafia trait because you have to outnumber town, so him acting as a sacrificial lamb is more null-to-town than a scumtell.

[Twistedspoon]

can we please lynch this scum now?

Saying you didn't know I am not an SE is a lie. You can see my join-date, if after that you don't check if I had previous games on this website (one of which I mentioned in an earlier post) then you are not scumhunting. Getting infos on other players is key in a mafia game. You are ought to know that as an IC. And I didn't cherry-picked your quotes, I included

all of them

where you were for reads. Another lie to dust !

The first page didn't say you were an SE
It's also newbie game protocol to (usually) have 2 SEs per game

Those two reasons gave me no reason to believe you were an SE

expecting me to have checked your past games is a daft assumption. I might have done if
1) we weren't in a newbie game. Meta tells are less applicable in newbie games as the entire book of tells is turned on its head. Scummy things become newn-town etc.
20 I didn't need to metea you and don't know. I'm sure you're scum
3) what does it even matter that you're an SE?

as for the cherry picking, even If you did include all of the posts (which I doubt but don't have time to check lucky you) then you still disregarded the parts where I'm asking of frostbite and as I've already shown I had no reason to believe you were an SE
I'm still seeing no point to this SE argument. asking about Espe is the sensible thing to do since he's hardly been here and being suspicious of him is hardly buddying to him. I have no idea what your argument is. You look like confused scum grasping at straws
scraping the bottom of the barrel for ideas and you'll get splinters compadré

And here is the cherry on the cake, you are blackmailing the town. How anti-town is that ?! I said I was against your obvious ways of manipulating the opinion in your favor but that's low. You have done too much in favor of my lynch and you can't back down now, so you are using a HUGE loudspeaker to make more noise that you were doing previously. And another lie to your account : "I have everything to lose if I'm scum". So far I know, there are two mafia players in newbie games. Even if one of them die, the other can still win the game. Saying you have everything to lose is something that reinforces my case of the wounded animal because you really do feel threatened by my answers.

1) I'm not blackmailing the town. because i) They don't have to lynch me if they don't want to ii) you'll flip scum so no worries iii) The point of it is just to show how confident I am in your scumflip
2) even if I was blackmailing the town what's wrong with that? Scum lynches are how we win the game at the end of the day. We both think the other one of us is scum so that chances that one of us are are very high. So we're almost guaranteed to get one scum if we lynch you.
3) I could back down if i wanted to easy. I'd just cite the newb-town tell of IC paranoia and move onto some perfectly other good wagon If i wanted too. However thsi has gone so far I don't see why I'd want off your wagon. Obvscum
4) sure there are 2 mafia players. But their chances are strongly reduced if they lose one, and It doesn't help that they're all newbie's either. A gambit of losing an IC scum player to a scummy townie who would probably get lynched without the need for offering my head on the line should he flip scum would be madness (this is not the case though. You're the scum)

TS started a wagon on noragar and scums don't start wagons on each other in D1 mostly because it scares newbies to be bussed.

This is the daftest thing I've read so far. no explanation needed about how shoddy this is

You are tunelling me because you are obsessed with lynching me without being able to see the bigger pictures.

apologies, this is the daftest thing

1) I'm tunneling on you? I asked you for your reads mate and am still in that line of conversation of course;
2) even if i was tunneling on you, why not? Everyone else is a town read of mine apart from Espe who isn't ever here so I can't question him and noragar who we seem to have got all the information we can out of him after our pressure. That leaves you as the only person. So why not tunnel? It's not like you've not been scummy enough to not deserve it?

[Twistedspoon]

EDIT : After thinking about it a little bit, I think we could be in a marvelous case of town vs. town. Most of the townies haven't take position on this and so didn't Espeonage. That's really disturbing me.

Backpedal much? You said I was obvious scum last page?

Espeonage isn't here so your deflection onto him isn't working. How could have have taken a position if he hasn't shown up. He hasn't taken a position on anything :/

probably removes him as a likely buddy for you now though and makes noragar look more likely. thanks there

[chkflip]

I swear to God I'll cry myself to sleep for weeks straight if Spoon is scum. Weeks. Straight.

[chkflip]

EBWODP: Nah, I read it more like "oh, okay, well I'll just lynch the lurker / buss my buddy for town points."

[Twistedspoon]

EBWODP: Nah, I read it more like "oh, okay, well I'll just lynch the lurker / buss my buddy for town points."

maybe I guess

I think buses are less subtle though. Either way noragar is a more likely buddy at the moment as Otolia seems quite pro-noragar

[chkflip]

Otolia, in a hypothetical world where you're scum... who would be your partner?

[Otolia]

Otolia, in a hypothetical world where you're scum... who would be your partner?

Really ? I thought you had more respect for me.

[chkflip]

Only scum dodge questions.

I respect you, sure, but I'd still like to know who your hypothetical partner would be.

[Twistedspoon]

if he's scum he's not going to name his partner is he?
and if he's town his info will be of no help

it's a daft question. sorry to ruin it if it's some wifom gambit

anyways, no-one's saying we don't respect you here. I hold everyone here in the highest regard alignment whatever

[chkflip]

DUDE.

Meh, not a big deal, I just know that Otoscum (like most) would want to subconsciously say someone who

isn't

their partner.

So, for example, say he named Espe. I'd assume that person to be slightly less likely to be partners.

You're right about it being a silly question overall, though.

[Otolia]

Only scum dodge questions.

I respect you, sure, but I'd still like to know who your hypothetical partner would be.

You are really spouting out random affirmations without thinking about it, just like TS. This question is a true dilemma for every side (except Third Party maybe), and here is why.

Scum-side

: A mafia player don't name his partner at first because it too dangerous. But naming a townie will drew further suspicions on the people you didn't name including your partner. It becomes a game of WIFOM

Town-side

: Being a townie means you don't lie. Why would you cast suspicions on someone particularly when upon reveal, your fellow townies will take another look at your reads upon death ? Naming someone is creating WIFOM and townies don't want that.

VOTE: Chkflip I would like you to stop acting as if I were mentally challenged.

[chkflip]

Sorry I made you feel as if I thought you were mentally challenged. If it makes a difference, your answer is pretty solid.

Why you'd jump from "TScum" to "Hey maybe this is TvT" to "flipscum" within a single page is noteworthy.

Case?

[Twistedspoon]

it's an odd question but I'm not sure how it makes him scum or at least voteworthy

I'll consider flippy D2 if we don't get a scumflip today. I don't think we should be lynching him d1 if ever

did you notice I responded to your last case-on-me post or do you just not feel like commenting on it?

[Twistedspoon]

I shall admit this U-turn cycle of Twisted to Town.V.Town to Chklip is amusing

still very comfotable with an Otolia lynch though. I wouldn't want to let him live solely because he's off of my case for a bit

[Otolia]

My vote on chkflip was a rage vote , I stopped (OK, I am still trying ) insulting people (punk isn't an insult by the way, I do really love punk music ) I am blinded now, so hoping to distinguish a scum outside of the three of us is foolish. I can unvote you if you ask me to, but I don't think my vote has much significance right now. Maybe tomorrow, when people have taken stances.

Yes, I did notice you posted answers. But you have gotten more and more firm on your positions and even if I like my "wild beast" metaphor, I doubt I could be this lucky in D1. Your actions are overall too risky for scum even in D1 (when few links can be spotted for a LyLo win) But every reasoning I do is leading to more WIFOM. This is why I ignored your post. You have two long post, so do I. I think it's time to let the other members of the town to step up and propose more insight on the situation. Things that we may not (you, me and chkflip) be able to see because we are in the middle of the brawl. An outside point of view is what we need right now.