Newbie 1104 -- Game over

[chkflip]

I dig the level head, no doubt, but this doesn't exactly play to your town meta from our previous encounter.

Nothing to see here, move along... ~~NS

[Twistedspoon]

fine.
I'll be happy that I can end the wall sequence as the last poster.

I've made some good points in my opinion and am still very much liking your lynch

however you could argue It's more to the townieness of others. I don't know

I'm rather confident the scum lie in {Otolia, Noragar, Espe}. I think it might be possible for CC to be scum yet look very newb town and Choas could be really clever scum but I'm not considering them at the moment. I'm more confident in Otolia
Outside of that group I'll be very surprised if someone is scum.

[Nobody Special]

chkflip, this is an OFFICIAL WARNING:

DO NOT link to ongoing games. Do NOT do this again.

Rescinded due to Moderator error. (Not saying which Moderator.) My apologies.

[chkflip]

That wasn't an ongoing game. That ended in a town win shared by yours truly and Otolia.

Thanks, though. I appreciate the warning.

[chkflip]

Aah, I see. Nacho didn't update the thread title.

This guy.

[Nobody Special]

Votecount 1.10

chkflip - 2 - noragar, Otolia
Otolia - 2 - Twistedspoon, chkflip
CaptainCuddles - 1 - 198Frostbite

Not Voting: Espeonage, CaptainCuddles, forest_air, gbevilchaos

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline: June 3.

V/LA: CaptainCuddles, through Monday, May 30

198Frostbite has requested replacement.

[Otolia]

I dig the level head, no doubt, but this doesn't exactly play to your town meta from our previous encounter.

What is my town meta in D1 based on that game ?

1. Say something not so smart
2. Say firm on your positions and pledge not guilty
3. Fumble with a stupid claim.

So far, only the third step has to happen. But I really don't want to be "that" guy. You know the VI, even though I won that game \o/

[chkflip]

By your own system you've proven number two wrong in the last page.

[gbevilchaos]

Sorry for my lack of comment for the past day or so. My internet has been out. It's looking better now, though.

Otolia, you have back tracked so many times that I consider you to be scum (probably a 95% chance). A townie wouldn't need to try deflecting onto TS, chkflip, and Espe, all within a page or two. A townie would state his reads and accept the lynch.

Vote Otolia

Also,

FoS Chkflip

. He's jumped on several early bandwagons without posting reasoning, and he hasn't started really pushing against Otolia until it was rather obvious that he was going to be lynched. I have details written down, but I'm not going to share them until tomorrow. I don't want to make us go on a wild tangent when we have an easy scum target right in front of us in Otolia.

Having said that, if I die during Night 1, chkflip is almost definitely scum trying to stop me from posting my case.

[noragar]

I also suspect Chkflip (obviously, since my vote has been on him). My theory up to this point was that of the two scum, one would be from the group of active, aggressive posters (Chkflip, TS, Otolia) and the other would be one of the lurkers (Espe, Frostbite, CC). I've been getting a town read from gbevil and forest. I really don't see a TS/Chkflip partnership unless they're using the most blatant WIFOM strategy imaginable.

In this back and forth over the last couple days, I buy into TS's points more than Otolia's, and I'd be willing to go along with an Otolia lynch for D1. I'm going to go back and re-read the thread to make sure I didn't miss anything the first time through. If I don't find any new insights, I'll likely be changing my vote to Otolia later tonight.

[Otolia]

By your own system you've proven number two wrong in the last page.

No. I still maintain that I had valid town reasons not to write my reads at the point I refused to (which is how the thing started) You are trying too hard !

[Twistedspoon]

Also,

FoS Chkflip

. He's jumped on several early bandwagons without posting reasoning, and he hasn't started really pushing against Otolia until it was rather obvious that he was going to be lynched. I have details written down, but I'm not going to share them until tomorrow. I don't want to make us go on a wild tangent when we have an easy scum target right in front of us in Otolia.

I can agree with this,

I still think scum lies in {Otolia, Noragar, Espe} and possibly CC for now though. A flip and NK could change my reads

If we get a lynch done soon we can have the whole night phase for Espe and frosty's replacement to catch up in. I'll expect a serious post from espe at the start of D2 if we don't get one before the night phase

[Twistedspoon]

Having said that, if I die during Night 1, chkflip is almost definitely scum trying to stop me from posting my case.

scum could just kill you now you've said that to incriminate flippy

I really don't see a TS/Chkflip partnership unless they're using the most blatant WIFOM strategy imaginable.

what do you mean?

[gbevilchaos]

Having said that, if I die during Night 1, chkflip is almost definitely scum trying to stop me from posting my case.

scum could just kill you now you've said that to incriminate flippy

Hmmm.. hadn't considered that. Now that it's out in the open, it would become so WIFOMy that my death wouldn't allow you to draw many conclusions. That sucks.

[noragar]

what do you mean?

Just this sequence:

#177

hey flippy, wagon noragar with me

#185

You mean return to my original hunch?

UNVOTE: gbevilchaos
VOTE: noragar

Sure, why not. My avenue seems deadish right now anyway.

#250

Espe or Otolia?
who needs my vote more?

VOTE: Otolia

easy. Hate to let noragar walk off but he's not today's lynch. I prefer Lord of Graves- I mean Otolia

#251

Yes, yes.

VOTE: Otoalia

with chkflip following your vote around like a lapdog.

[Twistedspoon]

yeah that is a bit odd

as flattered as I am It makes me wonder. I have no idea if that's a scumtell though.
Maybe I'll consider flippy D2. Probably not. I have a strongish town read on him now.

[gbevilchaos]

That was more or less what I had noragar. That and his odd pattern of voting early for Otolia (i.e. looking like he isn't bandwagoning), but waiting until there was a strong case against Otolia to start talking about Otolia's actual scumtells.

[noragar]

Well, I didn't pick up anything new in my re-read, so

Unvote,

Vote: Otolia

[noragar]

Yeah, I'm not sure that this vote pattern is necessarily a scum-tell either, just that if Twisted and Chkflip are partners, they're being pretty blatant about not trying to hide it.

[Twistedspoon]

sooo...

that's L-1

Unusually I'm fine with ending the day whenever. Otolia can claim if he wants to. I suppose it's polite to let him claim I guess.
I'd like to hear a juicy summary post from CC, Frostbite's replacement and Espe if and when they turn up. I can wait a night phase though if I have to. I don't want a day to drag on waiting for 1 or 2 people who could catch up whilst the night phase is running

[gbevilchaos]

CC won't be back til Monday, so we'll have to wait to hear his take on what's been going on.

@Noragar: TS seems to be a town read to me. If Otolia turns up as scum, then we can pretty much rule out TS as a possibility. He wouldn't actively try to start a bandwagon on his scum partner on Day 1. It just wouldn't make sense. I think that flip could possibly be trying to take advantage of TS's IC status. I doubt most noobs would question the IC's judgement on scum tells (we're encouraged to learn from them), so it's possible that noobs also wouldn't question his associates. And flip has clearly been trying to associate himself with TS.

This is a conversation best suited to be held after we lynch Otolia, though. If he flips scum, we can pretty much assume TS is town and continue the discussion about the motivation behind flip's heavy association with TS. If he flips town, then we should start pressuring TS himself.

[forest_air]

Woah, so many pages to catch up on >W>

Okay, from what I can tell, I think TS and Otolia are both town. Although I think some of Otolia's points are questionable, on the other hand, some of the things that TS seem odd. A thought occured that they could be making an act to make the town think that one of them is scum and one is not, to protect the one who gets lynched. Think about it, there are quite a few people who are away(CC, Espe, Frostbite) so it would be hard to acquire enough votes to lynch someone unless gbevil or myself decided to make a vote.

And TS's willingness to give himself up for D2 is really bothering me. Rather eerie thing to say. Striked me as irrationable, and since this is only day 1, and nobody has died yet. If the other people had made an analysis like Otolia, I believe TS would have reacted in a similar way. Picking out points of interest to ridicule and using that as evidence to vote for Otolia. Rather suspicious that a TS would make an OMGUS vote. You know, since not a lot of very large posts have been made with a lot of potential for nitpicking.

As for Otolia, he seems more town to me than TS, but I could be wrong. He has been posting more after making his argument, and now that he has made a decision I will have more of a means to get a better read of him.

Of course, chkflip also strikes me as suspicious, because he seems to keep following TS without much time passing by. I would really like to know his motivation for that, but I don't think it has to do with TS being an IC. Strange as that sounds, as chkflip is willing to vote for a seemingly random person each time as he just agrees with little meat to back up his vote. I'm considering voting for him as of this point in the game.

Other than that, I don't really have anything to contribute.

[gbevilchaos]

Woah, so many pages to catch up on >W>

Okay, from what I can tell, I think TS and Otolia are both town. Although I think some of Otolia's points are questionable, on the other hand, some of the things that TS seem odd. A thought occured that they could be making an act to make the town think that one of them is scum and one is not, to protect the one who gets lynched. Think about it, there are quite a few people who are away(CC, Espe, Frostbite) so it would be hard to acquire enough votes to lynch someone unless gbevil or myself decided to make a vote.

And TS's willingness to give himself up for D2 is really bothering me. Rather eerie thing to say. Striked me as irrationable, and since this is only day 1, and nobody has died yet. If the other people had made an analysis like Otolia, I believe TS would have reacted in a similar way. Picking out points of interest to ridicule and using that as evidence to vote for Otolia. Rather suspicious that a TS would make an OMGUS vote. You know, since not a lot of very large posts have been made with a lot of potential for nitpicking.

As for Otolia, he seems more town to me than TS, but I could be wrong. He has been posting more after making his argument, and now that he has made a decision I will have more of a means to get a better read of him.

Of course, chkflip also strikes me as suspicious, because he seems to keep following TS without much time passing by. I would really like to know his motivation for that, but I don't think it has to do with TS being an IC. Strange as that sounds, as chkflip is willing to vote for a seemingly random person each time as he just agrees with little meat to back up his vote. I'm considering voting for him as of this point in the game.

Other than that, I don't really have anything to contribute.

Unvote vote Forest

Can you address the arguments against Otolia? There is some pretty good evidence that he is scum.

[forest_air]

^It's generally not good to trust vibes, but I just have a feeling that neither of TS or Otolia are scum. As I said, I could be wrong, but I've been in a game somewhere else where there was this three-way group of people FOSing and voting for each other. They kept on picking at the little things in each others' posts and caused a lot of bandwagoning and opportunities for scums to manipulate the town. In this particular game, they all ended up getting NKed/lynched and each one was a completely innocent vanilla townie. I think the same thing may be happening here.

And okay, I looked back and I take back what I said about Otolia. He seems more on the scum side than TS now, because some of TS's in the middle pages seemed pro-town and I'm just as unsure as almost everyone here who is scum and who is not. And after re-reading, some of the things that Otolia said seem less townish to me.

Again, I had a lot of pages to read. I think I skipped a post or two by accident. But, I still think it's just a TT thing happening here.

And note how I didn't vote for anyone. I'm still suspicious of chkflip, because he was just following TS around. Honestly, if I wanted side with Otolia's, I would have actually voted for chkflip. Even though I had suspicions of TS earlier on in the game, I chose not to vote for him. Even though I do partially agree with some of the things Otolia said, I also find some things about what TS to be true.

And thus, I am not convinced enough to vote for anyone just yet. We still have quite a few IRL days left in this game, so I don't want to bandwagon as it'll 1)cause people to accuse me of voting for a townie(if the one lynched

is

a townie or 2)we still have to wait for Espeonage.

I am also anticipating that Frostbite's replacement will arrive before the day ends.

My experience is the people who lurk or make very short posts(not neccessarily fluff) are more likely to be scum. I could be saying the same thing about CC but since he hasn't posted for a while, and it will be even longer before he comes back. If TS and Otolia are posting so much, I'd rather have them be alive to see who will be analyzing tomorrow's deaths than some people who continuely bandwagon or post with insufficient evidence. If a person posts enough, basically anything they say can be a scumtell, and whatever an IC says can be convincing to everyone since he has played for a long time and this is a newbie game...full of newbies(including myself ._.)

Just out of curiousity, are you voting for me out of pressure, or because you seriously suspect me?

[gbevilchaos]

^It's generally not good to trust vibes, but I just have a feeling that neither of TS or Otolia are scum. As I said, I could be wrong, but I've been in a game somewhere else where there was this three-way group of people FOSing and voting for each other. They kept on picking at the little things in each others' posts and caused a lot of bandwagoning and opportunities for scums to manipulate the town. In this particular game, they all ended up getting NKed/lynched and each one was a completely innocent vanilla townie. I think the same thing may be happening here.

And okay, I looked back and I take back what I said about Otolia. He seems more on the scum side than TS now, because some of TS's in the middle pages seemed pro-town and I'm just as unsure as almost everyone here who is scum and who is not. And after re-reading, some of the things that Otolia said seem less townish to me.

Again, I had a lot of pages to read. I think I skipped a post or two by accident. But, I still think it's just a TT thing happening here.

And note how I didn't vote for anyone. I'm still suspicious of chkflip, because he was just following TS around. Honestly, if I wanted side with Otolia's, I would have actually voted for chkflip. Even though I had suspicions of TS earlier on in the game, I chose not to vote for him. Even though I do partially agree with some of the things Otolia said, I also find some things about what TS to be true.

And thus, I am not convinced enough to vote for anyone just yet. We still have quite a few IRL days left in this game, so I don't want to bandwagon as it'll 1)cause people to accuse me of voting for a townie(if the one lynched

is

a townie or 2)we still have to wait for Espeonage.

I am also anticipating that Frostbite's replacement will arrive before the day ends.

My experience is the people who lurk or make very short posts(not neccessarily fluff) are more likely to be scum. I could be saying the same thing about CC but since he hasn't posted for a while, and it will be even longer before he comes back. If TS and Otolia are posting so much, I'd rather have them be alive to see who will be analyzing tomorrow's deaths than some people who continuely bandwagon or post with insufficient evidence. If a person posts enough, basically anything they say can be a scumtell, and whatever an IC says can be convincing to everyone since he has played for a long time and this is a newbie game...full of newbies(including myself ._.)

Just out of curiousity, are you voting for me out of pressure, or because you seriously suspect me?

That's what I was looking for. Before Day 1 ended, I needed a better read on you. I'm not sure if anyone realized it, but my vote on you was the first time any vote has been placed on you in the entire game. Now everyone can see how you respond under random pressure, at least to some degree.

Your response basically confirms in my mind that you're town, which is supported by how you've acted the entire game. My reads are now as follows:

Town: TS, Forest
Leaning Town: Noragar, Frost
Null: CC
Leaning Scum: Espe, Flip (if I was forced to construct a top 2, he would be in it)
Scum: Otolia

Unvote vote Otolia

I'm placing my vote back on Otolia. Now that I have a decent read on everyone (as well as I can hope to get on Day 1 anyway), I'm content to go for the lynch whenever someone is willing to hammer.