Wizards at the Sorcerers' Den - Endgame

[CryMeARiver]

@MOD: I'm going to be V/LA over the weekend for holiday stuffs

Unvote

I'll catchup when I'm back.

@Mod: This for me too. I'm gonna be V/LA till Tuesday due to Memorial Day Weekend. I'll try to stay informed (read), but will have little to no time for significant posting.

Lay down a vote on your top scumspect until then. We need lynch.

[Beefster]

@CMAR- Did a read, then a re-read for overall interactions, then an ISO for specifics.

Also, I think the mod was just going with the flow and showing where the vote was instead of meaning anything greater.

@Soben- I initally thought about it, but in the interest of actually catching up and posting content,

decided to forgo

stuff like

"Ohhh- breadcrumb?"
and
"Does this mean you get 13 votes?"

And

I've addressed topical stuff, I think, in the respective person

. But, if you'd like

my specific opinion about something earlier in the (game) day, please ask

.
re:SRG- He was the first to gather votes, and they seemed justified at first, as did the ones that went to Pine. But, he seemed to respond to his voters enough to lose the wagon. Didn't like the meta-talk, liked the wall posts and reads, and like the activity level.

@WC- like the vote count analysis, but agree with Inhim about it not determining alignments at this point. But, I like having VCAs and referring to them later.

Ugh. This post is just awful. Focusing on the RVS? Try looking at the recent. It's generally more useful.

unvote

VOTE: IC

unvote

VOTE: Peregrine

I'm gonna give Amrun a little cooldown time and shift the perspective a bit. Amrun might be a better vig option, anyway. She's taking the game way too seriously.

Ugh. This post is just awful. Failing to read? Try reading. It's generally more useful.
Look, I've even bolded the confusing parts.

Honestly, it looks like you just threw that in at the last minute to make your post seem useful. The bolded parts are so incredibly general that they don't really have any meaning.

And I like the fact Amrun is taking it seriously. It's a game to

play

to

have fun

and to

win

.

Those 2 sentences have nothing to do with each other. Bus your scumbuddy already.

[Beefster]

Implo, Amrun, gandalf made the top 3. Choose who dies.

My order of preference:

CryMeARiver
implosion

Hey there. Provide your case on me asswipe.

Well, not voting you yet, so don't need a case. However, certain things I didn't like:

Not necessarily. You've soft-FoS'd him out of nowhere. Reasons generally help with that sort of thing.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... #p3064692- It is much more preferable to lynch scum than to mislynch.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... #p3065175- defending the above post

How is defending a post a scumtell?

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... #p3078599- resorting to name calling

That isn't a scumtell.

Which posts are you talking about? Linking to pages doesn't exactly help anyone see your point.
Please quote and/or link to posts.

[SGRaaize]

I have since decided you are a real person, but just do not choose to play one on the Internet.

What?

This is a lie. Quote my vote on you.

Heh. My bad. I could've sworn you shifted your vote to me. Either way, I'm second on your scum list.

^ Town-Tell

I don't think the claim-lynch strategy will work. I really doubt anyone else will claim now that we are sure it's a bad idea. It's just as easy for a townie to fakeclaim as scum. If it also happens to apply to fakeclaims, then we still won't get anywhere and we'll have mislynched way more than necessary.

It's still a cool idea nonetheless- it just doesn't work in practice.

What?

Post #530 by SGRaaize - I've explained my reasoning for not voting Icey multiple times, if you still don't know it just ISO me.

And I told you why its bullshit before

1) You think Icey isn't scum
2) You are aware Icey is either Third Party that doesn't fuck us in the butt by winning or Town which helps us if we vote him.
3) You still don't vote him because he might not be Town

*Shrugs*

Gandalf and ManaKu were both on both wagons. I think these wagons were a source of joy to scum. Especially given the caution against claiming it's in their interest to try to get get wagons rolling quickly at the beginning and see if they can get claims out of town players, and players who jumped on both of them are worth looking more closely at, to me. I took the votes mostly from vote counts, although I know my vote never showed up in the votecounts (I added it here) so it's possible I could have missed some. Am supposed to be working right now, so no time to go back and check all the votes.

Mana kept his vote on Pine even after he claimed and continued to push him despite numerous reasons to believe he was town. Gandalf on the other hand has changed his vote quite a bit and his play so far pretty typical Gandalf.

I agree with all of this, I know Mana_Ku claimed Mason partners with Chesskid3 before, but I still don't feel confident in calling him Town.

People that should not be lynched today: SGR, Chess, ABR, Icey, Soben, Beefster, LMP, Mana, CMAR, BunnyLover, Zdenek

lol'd at you putting your name in your list, but I agree.

I'm wondering if all the people who are like "OHHHH Chess is obv town!" really know or are they just following the crowd. Cause honestly having played with chess a couple times recently I don't notice anything that's not normal Chesskid behavior.

There hasn't been many people stating that Chesskid is obvtown rather the opposite, I'm failing to see him town-tell hardcore like he normally does early in the game.

This is interesting to note for further reference

WUT?

Unvote

VOTE: Bunnylover

Unvote

VOTE: IceyCupcake

Unvote

VOTE: Mana_Ku

FoSing BunnyLover for that post was derpy. Also, why do you think Icey is scum?

True fact: LMP and me aren't the same person. What applies to me, doesn't have to apply to him.

I still like how you basically argue I'm Mafia by saying I am not a joker and by saying I am a joker.
Make up your mind, you weirdo. Only you could look scummy even though you claimed mason with someone that confirms you.

What a pathetic, reaching attack.

You know perfectly well I have scumreads, since you're my top read.

You also know perfectly well that Soben asked for my opinoin on those three players individually.

Not sure why Soben did, since I'm supposedly a scumread of theirs that they agreed with my reads, but when someone asks me a direct question I answer it, unlike you.

OVER REACTION ALERT! OVER REACTION ALERT!
ABORT!!! ABORT!!!

Anyone that thinks both Beefster and I are scum seriously needs their head checked.

Interesting post.

Is no one really seeing what I am seeing with chesskid?

I'm not, but to be fair I haven't been making a particular effort to read into chesskids posts, I normally just judge him as obvtown or null.

Amrum, while you're online there's a few people I want your opinion on, they include Zdenek, Manu_Ku and Wrathchild.

This is post 45. Post 46 is my reads of those 3 players for Soben.
But that's not a response?

Beefster, reading the thread is not a scumtell and you're retarded and/or scummy for saying so.

All good town read the thread, looking for scum. It's something you ought to try emulating, even though you're scum.

Being town is not an excuse to not read the thread.

ITT I am called scum for reading the game. Smh

CAPTAIN, THE OVER-REACTION IS AT 400% AND RISING, GET THE FUCK OUT FROM THERE... I REPEAT...

GET THE FUCK OUT FROM THERE

@Beef #741: Wait, you are advocating townies that don't read carefully, even admitting to not reading carefully yourself? Heck, I've missed a few things things in this game and gone back and caught them on subsequent passes, but still would never suggest that not-reading carefully is a town-tell. It's your responsibility as town to read carefully. Just take my whole last debate about Pine's death and SGR's plan, I didn't read the vampire death scene carefully because I usually skim flavor and it lead to a huge distraction. Such a distraction is not helpful to town (maybe it will end up providing some sort of info later as a discussion point), I made a mistake. The bottom line is not-reading carefully = bad for town.

He's so town he hurts.
Also, I found it weird how CMAR was voting him around this stage.

UNVOTE

*applause* Bravo. Good choice. I am town, after all.

To quote InHim: I'm flip-flopping on you like a Magicarp. You constantly change between Townie and Scummy.

Don't like the rubbish/made up case on Amrun. Circular logic indded.

Circular logic, what?

CMAR, what were you trying to say? I still don't get it.

Beefster, I don't care if you're lazy town. All lazy people are not town, and twisting posts to mean something you want them to, and then saying you didn't read when your case falls apart because it makes no sense, is not a towntell.

NOT being lazy is not a scumtell.

Self-metaing does tend to be, though.

I can't put my finger on what's scummy in this post, but there's something here alright.

@Gandalf: I generally don't defend myself much against votes alone. It's a wasted effort IMO. I figure since I'm town, it will naturally resolve itself at some point.

HNGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

/facepalm. I won't confirm anything, but even a three years old baby would be able to get a reliable conclusion from what I've posted.

I am starting to doubt a little and have Beefster as possibly bad town.

Bingo.

STOP...
BEING...
SO...

HNGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Interesting.
Mod- Snow_Bunny [Healthy] (1) - Bunnylover
If their is an ability that is killing off people if they claim, it would obviously belong to the mod. Reason of this thinking is because in OoT mafia, the mods were able to auto hammer masons if they were put at L-1. I really think we should lynch Snow_Bunny and therefore have a chance at claiming. Although this is all

We're not Lynching the Mod

Read it in context.

Amrun et al: You are scummy for xyz
Beefster: You are wrong. I am town.
Others: What about abc
Beefster: I am town though.

Doesn't explain his thought process or nothing, expects us to take it at face value.

To clarify, I don't understand how you can both find me scummy and agree with me that Beefster is scummy. It seems incongruous.

This is another one of those really interesting posts. I am pretty sure Amrun and Beefcase aren't partners.

@Dry: Have you SEEN my case on LMP? It's amazing. Too bad you're all over one of my favorite tells too.

*Isos Riceballtail*

"Case", lol

I just read something that makes me think you're town.

Will you say what?

Seriously?

Still dodging all my questions, ABR?

I'm not sure you really know what it means to dodge a question. (Let alone ALL of them) Dodging questions =/= not answering them. ABR (and myself) have not been answering questions for one reason or another (perhaps he didn't see it, and thus, didn't know there was a question to answer). That's a null-tell in my book

This looks like buddying to my small idiotic mind.

Pretty sure gandalf is town though...

There's no one nullier in this game aside from lurkers.
I'd like to know your reasoning

Beef is bugging me so much.

His content is pretty much:

"I'm lazy"
"I'm Town"
"I'm gonna continue to be lazy town"
"You think I'm scum? YOU ARE!"
"You think I'm town? YEAH ME! TOLD YOU!"

Beef is bugging me so much.

His content is pretty much:

"I'm lazy"
"I'm Town"
"I'm gonna continue to be lazy town"
"You think I'm scum? YOU ARE!"
"You think I'm town? YEAH ME! TOLD YOU!"

But does that mean he is scummy? Or just exactly what he says he is?

He's being unhelpful to the discussion. Even if you don't consider him inherently scummy because of what he says (Which I do), you should be suspecting him for basically "unreadable" with his lazy answers.

Post #897 by Implosion - Really dislike the attack on Snake for something trivial, there's a difference between scummy and a scum-tell, selfvoting is scummy but it's not exactly a scum-tell so Snake is indeed correct here.

Didn't even vote this, but yeah, one more reason for me to suspect Implosion

What's interesting about these two wagons is that nobody hops from one to another, something I'd expect to see done by opportunistic scum. This suggests to me that most likely both or none of these players (Beef/Amrun) are town. Since I doubt (but I've seen it done before) that scum would push so hard on each other at this point, I suspect both are town.

Interesting conclusion, can't say its wrong or right, but I found it pretty interesting.

"Ohhh- breadcrumb?"

Gandalf has stated before he doesn't want to breadcrumb his role because its best if no one knows what it does

"Does this mean you get 13 votes?"

Your point is?

Town collecting together to kill scum = group vig. We pick like two people, and vig them. Those who are too cool for it get lynched or killed themselves.

The problem with this, as stated before, is that Mafia might have roles to either protect or hide people.

Implo, Amrun, gandalf made the top 3. Choose who dies.

Implo, Amrun and Beefster, as far as I'm concerned.

I'l go with Implo, though.

Zdenek however, is making softly softly attacks on easy targets, which to me points at scum trying to not get too invested in a mis-lynch.
Beefster/Amrun for example. Vote on lurker Snake for no real reason is bad. Weak reasons on Pine when there were good reasons for voting him

I can see it.

So much shit is happening right now.
Looking back, I think Amrun is over-agressive Town, not sure about Beefster, I can see Zdenek being Mafia. But honestly, I still want Implosion.

Restating after rereading better:
I think Amrun is over-reactive and over-agressive, not sure but leaning scum. I think Beefster is very anti-townie but can't tell if he's scum. I can see Zdenek being Mafia and I can't wait to get my hands on Implosion

What makes you think that Amrun is an easier target than Beefster?

This is a good point. I think Mafia would prefer to go against the very anti-townie person than the over-agressive person.

Implo, Amrun, gandalf made the top 3. Choose who dies.

My order of preference:

CryMeARiver
implosion

Hey there. Provide your case on me asswipe.

Well, not voting you yet, so don't need a case. However, certain things I didn't like:
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... #p3064692- It is much more preferable to lynch scum than to mislynch.
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... #p3065175- defending the above post
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... #p3078599- resorting to name calling

If you honestly reread the thread and the best thing you can come up with is CMAR being Scum, I suggest you to reread again

[SGRaaize]

This post is a breether between my Wall of Text and my post with my tells

[SGRaaize]

Here are my current reads:

100% Sure Town: SGRaaize, the great.

Fairly Positive Town: WrathChild; Katy; Chesskid3

Leaning Town: Mana_Ku (I know he claimed Mason with Chesskid3, but I just can't put Mana_Ku and Chesskid3 in the same category when Mana_Ku is so much scummier); Albert B. Rampage; Baby Spice; Zdenek; CryMeARiver

Don't matter cause he's Third Party or Town: Icey

Null: Bunnylover; Dry-fit; Feysal; inHimShallIBe; SnakePlissen; LynchMePly

Sweedish Null: Gandalf

Leaning Scum: PeregrineV; Soben; RiceBallTrail; Beefster; Amrun

Fairly Positive Scum: Implosion

[SGRaaize]

Its worth nothing Dry-Fit is in the line between Null and Leaning Scum while Snake is in the line between Null and Leaning Town

[Beefster]

[quote=SGR]Also, why do you think Icey is scum?[/quote]I don't. It's part of the give-Icey-votes-because-of-his-alleged-role plan.

[SGRaaize]

Oh right. I was just so used to your weird ass way of FoSing and completely forgot for a second about Icey's role.

[SGRaaize]

You still scummy, though >:(

[Beefster]

I'm not sure you really know what it means to dodge a question. (Let alone ALL of them) Dodging questions =/= not answering them. ABR (and myself) have not been answering questions for one reason or another (perhaps he didn't see it, and thus, didn't know there was a question to answer). That's a null-tell in my book

This looks like buddying to my small idiotic mind.

It really isn't. Amrun had been throwing around the term for quite some time. It just so happened that at that point, I got so annoyed with his stupid "scum tell" so I had to establish my stance regarding "dodging questions."

[Beefster]

You still scummy, though >:(

Well atm, at least. If your claimed pattern continues, I'll be town in a RL day or two.

[SGRaaize]

Hnghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

The way you answer to every accusation, its so townie and so scummy at the same time. It looks as if you're Townie who knows he is saying Townie stuff but on the other hand it sounds like you're Mafia who is just trying to act cool under pressure andAIGJAFDOGKAOFDASOFAKOGAKPDGALPGL

I have my eyes on you, mister

[Beefster]

*Checks out Implosion*
*Notices a question to answer*

What did you mean here by "get through other players?" Why would we push on other players to the extent where we could force them to claim just to go back to pine?

I like to investigate many players throughout the day (Mainly D1) to get their reactions to situations and get a good number of indicative posts out of them. I say it's a generally good idea to gather a good amount of information before going for a lynch- especially that early in the day. Once you've interrogated a good number of players, then you can go in for a lynch.

@CMAR: Obviously, I want Amrun dead in some way or another... If an Amrun lynch isn't going to happen, I would rather lynch gandalf than Implosion if it came down to it. I honestly think Implosion is town.

And an unrelated side comment...

Sweedish Null: Gandalf

I think you mean "Swiss null." Switzerland->Swiss, Sweden->Swedish

[Beefster]

The way you answer to every accusation, its so townie and so scummy at the same time. It looks as if you're Townie who knows he is saying Townie stuff but on the other hand it sounds like you're Mafia who is just trying to act cool under pressure andAIGJAFDOGKAOFDASOFAKOGAKPDGALPGL

That sure explains why I get mislynched a lot. Thanks for the insight.

[SGRaaize]

Ops, you're right, Swiss Null indeed.

[gandalf5166]

What does Swiss null even mean?

[Beefster]

I don't think the claim-lynch strategy will work. I really doubt anyone else will claim now that we are sure it's a bad idea. It's just as easy for a townie to fakeclaim as scum. If it also happens to apply to fakeclaims, then we still won't get anywhere and we'll have mislynched way more than necessary.

It's still a cool idea nonetheless- it just doesn't work in practice.

I think it's time to explain my thought process regarding this. (I keep forgetting that I have unorthodox thought processes, so I figured people would be able to fill in the blanks)

I had thought about this even before Pine was killed, BTW

What if the person at L-1 refuses to claim? You've hit a dead end. You either proceed to lynch him or you target someone else. You haven't accomplished anything by doing this.
Keep in mind that it is IMPOSSIBLE to truly force a claim. What can you use to enforce it? A day power you could've used earlier anyway?

Also consider the possibility that it either doesn't apply to fakeclaims or it's a role that doesn't have to kill claimers. You get that person to claim, but they don't die. In either case, it hasn't proven anything. FYI, Town can fakeclaim too.

There's no way to reliably use it to get infinite lynches. [D&D reference]It's not a brutal 3 vorpal dagger we're talking about here. It's more like a vorpal greataxe.[/D&D reference] (The first gives you a 4-sided die: you reroll anything 3 or lower and add another roll for each 4 rolled, ie infinite damage. The second gives you a 12-sided die that you only get to reroll and add the total when you get a 12)

[IceyCupcake]

@SGR: Gandalf is town due to the sheer number of times I have played with him in the past. I can read him like a book.

[IceyCupcake]

Also, let me know when D2 rolls around.

I hope GI has been keeping track of this game. He doesn't like to talk to me at all (in our QT).

[SGRaaize]

What does Swiss null even mean?

[Amrun]

RBT: Let me explain something to you. You are attacking me for "not reading the thread and not caring to fix my mistakes.". In reality, I made one small mistake and aplogized to you immediately after I realized.

You, on the other hand, have not read the thread closely enough to understand the following things: that the plan you "explained" to me was one that I originally proposed as an alternate to ABR's, and that other people are attacking me for reading the thread TOO carefully.

Furthermore, your other attack of me (OMGUS) is not at all a scumtell. And even if it were, you are more guilty of it than I am, just like you are obviously more guilty of not reading the thread and not caring to correct your mistakes. My vote is not on you, and I expressed suspicion of you before you ever expressed suspicion of me, further demonstrating that you are not reading the thread. I am also the largest wagon atm, so if expressing suspicion of someoene who suspects me is a scumtell, then I am in bigger trouble than is rational.

Your hypocrisy and feeble attempts at scumhunting until you hopped on the largest wagin for demonstrably poor reasons are what has earned you a spot in my top three. In fact, it has earned you number 1 spot.

Unvote; Vote Riceballtail

Call that OMGUS and see exactly how many shits I give. (Hint: none.)

[Amrun]

Gandalf: Switzerland is a tradiotannly politically even country, so I'm assumong within this context, "Swiss neutral" would mean not leaning either way (town or scum). Incidentally I have ISOed you again and decided to trust Katsuki's read on you for now.

SGR: I believe you are town, but you need to sit down and think carefully about your reads. You state thatG Beefster and I are not scum together, yet proceed to put us both in your top three based off of the cases we have made on each other. In addition, your top scumread is implosion, and I have been following my suspicion of implosion all game and in fact was one of the very first (maybe first, idk don't hold me to this) to express serious suspicion of implosion. Your reads need to reconcile all of these discrepencies.

[Riceballtail]

RBT: Let me explain something to you. You are attacking me for "not reading the thread and not caring to fix my mistakes.". In reality, I made one small mistake and aplogized to you immediately after I realized.

You, on the other hand, have not read the thread closely enough to understand the following things: that the plan you "explained" to me was one that I originally proposed as an alternate to ABR's, and that other people are attacking me for reading the thread TOO carefully.

Furthermore, your other attack of me (OMGUS) is not at all a scumtell. And even if it were, you are more guilty of it than I am, just like you are obviously more guilty of not reading the thread and not caring to correct your mistakes. My vote is not on you, and I expressed suspicion of you before you ever expressed suspicion of me, further demonstrating that you are not reading the thread. I am also the largest wagon atm, so if expressing suspicion of someoene who suspects me is a scumtell, then I am in bigger trouble than is rational.

Your hypocrisy and feeble attempts at scumhunting until you hopped on the largest wagin for demonstrably poor reasons are what has earned you a spot in my top three. In fact, it has earned you number 1 spot.

Unvote; Vote Riceballtail

Call that OMGUS and see exactly how many shits I give. (Hint: none.)

Umad? Just tell us if you're wizard-scum or magekiller-scum now.

(PS - It is OMGUS. Also, it wasn't the largest wagon.)

[CryMeARiver]

RBT: Let me explain something to you. You are attacking me for "not reading the thread and not caring to fix my mistakes.". In reality, I made one small mistake and aplogized to you immediately after I realized.

You, on the other hand, have not read the thread closely enough to understand the following things: that the plan you "explained" to me was one that I originally proposed as an alternate to ABR's, and that other people are attacking me for reading the thread TOO carefully.

Furthermore, your other attack of me (OMGUS) is not at all a scumtell. And even if it were, you are more guilty of it than I am, just like you are obviously more guilty of not reading the thread and not caring to correct your mistakes. My vote is not on you, and I expressed suspicion of you before you ever expressed suspicion of me, further demonstrating that you are not reading the thread. I am also the largest wagon atm, so if expressing suspicion of someoene who suspects me is a scumtell, then I am in bigger trouble than is rational.

Your hypocrisy and feeble attempts at scumhunting until you hopped on the largest wagin for demonstrably poor reasons are what has earned you a spot in my top three. In fact, it has earned you number 1 spot.

Unvote; Vote Riceballtail

Call that OMGUS and see exactly how many shits I give. (Hint: none.)

Umad? Just tell us if you're wizard-scum or magekiller-scum now.

(PS - It is OMGUS. Also, it wasn't the largest wagon.)

Whoever mentioned magekiller anything? It's not even in the flavor (though I haven't read the last 2 pages). Slip?

Add RBT to that list.