Dynasty Warriors Mafia (Shu Victorious)

[Gammagooey]

Official Vote Count

Players needed to lynch: 11

Amrun

- 4 - elvis_knits, GreyICE, RedCoyote, Vi - (L-7)

DietyKabuto

- 1 - Amrun - (L-10)

Drunken Unicorn Master

- 4 - InHimshallibe, Maxous, ToastyToast, Bastard Bros - (L-7)

GreyICE

- 1 - C-Worl - (L-10)

Iecerint

- 2 - Magister Ludi, RayFrost - (L-9)

Katsuki

- 2 - Juls, DietyKabuto - (L-9)

Magister Ludi

- 2 - Iecerint, Drunken Unicorn Master - (L-9)

ToastyToast

- 3 - Katsuki, Gammagooey, AlmasterGM - (L-8)

Players not voting: mykonian

He's not anywhere close to a lynch. Like L-6 or 7 right now.

[Drunken Unicorn Master]

Toasty: I never said you had bad reads, so nice misrep. I did, however, say you were pushing bad cases. Newsflash: you are. It is true that you pushed DUM more than Katsuki, but I dislike your "case" on Katsuki more than your case on DUM, though I dislike them both. Though while we're at it, if you reach the correct conclusion with incorrect logic, your conclusion is still incorrect: therefore, even if you are town and DUM and Katsuki are scum, your reads would still be bad. Those are the rules of logic, sir.

I sense that this is a "caught for the wrong reasons" temper tantrum from Toasty.

I need to check the vote count before voting.

HEH HEH HEH HEH HEH.

The bolded above could not be more correct.

Lynch away! <3

[RedCoyote]

Gamma voting Toast? Me likey.
Amrun giving us a solid argument? Me likey a lot.

Unvote

;

vote: ToastyToast

Sorry, Toast. I really liked how you stuck it to Kat, but I saw something really ugly in your unwillingness to choose whether you preferred either AGM or elvis' plan. You may think it's an incredibly dumb reason to advocate your lynch, but I happen to think it tells me something important about your unwillingness to take a stand for what your truly think is the correct way to go (perhaps because your alignment leaves you conflicted in this regard).

[Amrun]

He's not anywhere close to a lynch. Like L-6 or 7 right now.

Excellent. Thank you.

Unvote; Vote: ToastyToast

[Gammagooey]

DUM You're not even voting Toast, get back in here and WORDS for a bit.

[Drunken Unicorn Master]

RC forgot to do it in his last post, so...

Unvote; Vote: ToastyToast

~CSL

Also, due to internet issues, this head is LA until the internet gets stabilized.

[Drunken Unicorn Master]

IECERINT, GET IN HERE AND VOTE TOAST!

~CSL

[Iecerint]

I'M DOING MY READTHROUGH. I'M ONLY ON PAGE 8. <_<

~~Iecerint's Re-readthrough~~

1. Elvis's pre-game duel strategy talk is weird. She proposes a situation where scum would never get D abilities, but includes little cautions about it as a "possible downside" of her plan. Sounds made-up. EDIT: Subsequent "should we just lynch" bit is also weird, because using duelling as a double-lynch is unambiguously better than that.

2. Vote for myko still doesn't make sense to me. I guess it evolves into a serious vote later? Will see soon.

3. Oh. That wasn't cleared up yet. RF explains things as above. In light of this, elvis's plan was just awful rather than poorly-reasoned out. <_<

4. AGM proposes alternate, closer-to-obv plan.

5. RC says that obvtown is a myth because the fairy scummonster will mess with things, then he basically proposes the same plan with different rhetoric.

It would not surprise me if RC was on the opposite scumteam relative to Ludi. His behavior toward me more recently (e.g. asking the same question of me like 3-4 times, then saying I was scummy for focusing on it through he understands, etc) could be designed to strengthen a Ludi wagon by proxy. Still think Ludi's legit, though.

6. BB makes the same silly type of argument as did RC ("BEWARE! SCUMS IN GAME!"). Possible RCscumfriend if BB is a new player.

EDIT: Actually, I take that back. BB is just scummy. He's somewhat LESS likely to be scum with RC UNLESS he's a new player.

7. Amrun gets scumhunter points for #50, but calls out BB without calling out RC.

8. Elvis cross-supplies RC's silly strawman-destroying rhetoric. AGM obviously was not proposing that he personally choose the town dueler.

9. Oh. Well. Nevermind. AGM is apparently living in a crazy world. <_<

<_<

10. Gamma's RVS is +.

11. Toasty's RVS is -.

12. Elvis goes into crazy world, too, or she didn't see AGM's votepost. EDIT: She sees it afterwards. I'm surprised she didn't edit her plan after RF pointed out that she didn't know how the duels worked... O_o

13. Toasty asked DK if his vote was random, even though a large number of the RVS-y votes weren't random and a totally random vote after so much pre-game talk would appear a bit silly.

14. Maxous shifts Toasty's words around a little in 75 (1-1 /=>/ a dispute between parties).

15. Oh, nevermind. Toasty indeed meant something dumb.

What's with people making dumb claims about ideal play this game? You can't give anyone the benefit of the doubt... <_<

16. Ludi does he first laser-guided /outguess in #89. I'd missed before the possible significance of his referring to Wu as the "Quan"* family. Since Sun Quan wasn't even included in the series until DW4 (in spite of being the technical founder of Wu -- I think it's because Sun Jiang and Sun Ce are portrayed as heroic figures in the novel whereas Sun Quan is portrayed as cowardly/weak/deceitful), this is totally not a default way of looking at the Wu nation. I'd assumed Ludi was Shu s/p the 3-brothers-and-only-them thing, but it looks like he makes weird assumptions about Wu, too.

(* This is an error/slip on his part...the family is the Sun family; Quan is the given/"first" name of Sun Quan, the guy who ultimately founds Wu.)

17. RF calls out Ludi on attacking Toasty via /outguess, etc. and Ludi claims he was just making an idle observation.

18. I never really noticed how in-her-own-world Katsuki has been, probably because I didn't start posting until around the same time as her and we had some back-and-forth.

19. I disagree even more with Gamma's PoV re-4/4 now that I reread. In the simplest implementation, the duels basically give double lynches, or lets scum out themselves by duelling differently than instructed. They're a pro-town mechanic so long as they're used appropriately. Saying they "could" doublelynch town is like saying "you can lynch town by mistake; ergo, lynches are anti-town." Just sayin. I think this might be too nuanced to be part of evaluating the degree to which townLudi would infer a normative set-up, anyway.

20. I'm surprised that myko thought to vote elvis in 141. Lots of scummy things had happened in the meantime. EDIT: But he expresses feelings-type support for Ludiwagon.

21. RC's wallpost isn't really as substantive as I remembered it being. (Probably partially because I didn't really bother with most of them that didn't apply to me before tbh.) But I mean it's pretty much a list of I AGREE WITH THIS SENTENCE I QUOTED over and over. Sometimes he makes mini-quotes out of context. And he asks me to re-explain Ludislip for the first (1) time. <_<

EDIT: Well, I suppose he does give a nice summary. Surprised that he thinks Katsuki and Elvis seem town. I don't get C-Worl as scummy -- he's a non-entity AFAICT. Toasty as scum makes some sense, though.

22. I don't remember Ludi saying that RF was scummy re: elvis 154...

23. GreyICE...well...I agree with AGM's evaluation of his first posts, but I think AGM is indeed a weird player on elvis's scumlist. I don't recall her saying anything about him before this, either. Maybe it's from the pre-game yelling? EDIT: It is. I guess. But you never can tell with this playerlist. <_<

24. RC's entry into the game is worse than GreyICE's, albeit qualitatively the same.

25. BB does this lame "OMG GUYZ B CAREFUL LOL L-5 IS SRSBZBZ" thing that has to be made-up. Scummy.

26. No idea why C-Worl thinks GreyICE and AGM are scum together. EDIT: UNLESS he just doesn't know GreyICE.

27. CSL is making something up about C-Worl. I hope... <_<

EDIT: Yay! (Finally...) <_<

28. I think it's weird that inHim enters targeting CSL, of all people, his having making shit up notwithstanding.

Really, Ludi has been such obvscum so far, even more than I remembered him being, and I can't understand why everyone hasn't already lynched him by page 7 or whatever this is.

29. <3CSL<3 Though he doesn't really comment on the existing case.

30. I'm still not seeing why people thought Amrun was scum. I guess it's still coming? Trendy wagons in this game have made no sense to me at all (Ludi notwithstanding).

31.

Please don't kill him until I'm done thanks.

[Drunken Unicorn Master]

@ SpyreX: Can you please prod Bastard Bros? They need to post more.

[Vi]

On another computer, on vacation, and too tired/annoyed with most of you to bother with the robot spiel ATM.

AlmasterGM - Unless my memory is GREATLY mistaken you asked if I wanted GreyICE lynched

Today

. Not Tomorrow. After checking, why look! I'm right. If you're going to provoke me, at least do me a favor and get your own facts straight.
I don't think GreyICE is the best lynch Today simply because there are other people I'm more interested in lynching. However, as mentioned before I doubt GreyICE will be lynched regardless of his alignment. Frustration ensues, because I believe his play indicates scum.

GreyICE - At least I

have

reads I'm willing to share. While I will freely acknowledge that I'm not some omniscient Mafia deity I would also suggest that the underlying cause of most of my scumreads are the fault of the people in question being scummy.

inHimshallibe - Your play in OR&C except for that it was respectable but absent at times. I remember in MoCO you were opportunistic and took whatever potshots you could because you were never called on it. Like 536, which as mentioned above isn't factually correct and seems to serve no purpose except to needle me.

Gammagooey - Probably. About twenty minutes into my road trip I decided to follow my intuition (a rare day) and let Amrun go. I'll even release Iecerint in a two-for-the-price-of-one deal for the reread he's doing in the posts directly above this one, even though that's not entirely rational either.

Somewhere along the four minutes I spent reading up I missed exactly why ToastyToast is getting ganged up on aside from the usual. I think the charges against him are being trumped up and don't expect a scum flip at all, but not enough of value would be lost if he died so... whatever. I'm on vacation and will continue to be on vacation at Gammagooey's deadline, people are acting like/being mental invalids, if and when he flips Town I will question the appropriate parties' alignment and {call for their immediate execution, insult their intelligence} accordingly.

Along those lines, I've been trying hard not to personally insult DeityKabuto for the last few posts. I'm done with that. The phrase I would use to describe to DeityKabuto's aptitude for finding scum ends with "wet paper bag", and the thought that he's guaranteed to be alive in LyLo is actually rather disturbing.

---

inHim 539 is BS. Of my scum reads, he's now at the top. Kill him.

RedCoyote 577 is a major wagon jump. "Solid argument" from Amrun (the "scum getting caught for wrong reasons temper tantrum")? Please. Kill him.

DeityKabuto is still alive. Kill him.

We'll go from there.

[Amrun]

Vi, Do you think DK is scum?

Also, why purposefully fake a post restriction? I always thought it was fake but that didn't bother me too much. I stilk want to know, though.

[ToastyToast]

P-Edit: Ninja'ed on the last point by Gamma. Still Toast what is your opinion of the post? Do you still find Vi scummy?

The post was a good one. I still don't like the whole post restriction thing, but her responses have sufficed for now, whereas nothing has changed my suspicions on DUM, C-worl, Amrun. Katsuki's rage is just annoying to deal with, doesn't change my read.

I'm catching up the last few pages, but since I'm probably going to get lynched I will say that in the situation a duel comes about, I would much rather give the win to Juls than to Gamma

[Iecerint]

CLOSER, YOUR MIND'S FLYIN BLIND WITH YOUR HEAD AND YOUR FACE...

~~Iecerint's Re-readthrough~~

31. Not sure I agree with Gamma re: elvis in 194. IIRC, everyone who has tried to strawman someone this game (except once!) was actually correctly arguing whatever absurd thing appeared like a strawman s/p being simplistic or making no sense. I mean I don't blame him for not realizing that people are insane, though.

32. Oh. Well, the ZOMG LET'S BE CAREFUL-tell is totally legit re: elvis, though RedC and I think someone else (BB?) did the same thing soo....ye...

33. I wish I knew anything about DK re: Amrun 196.

34. OK, now we're starting to enter NO U territory at the following elvis post.

35. RC calls out a NEW ZLBC-tell on elvis. But he didn't really push his old one. And I don't remember him personally getting going with this one. CSL->STFU's.

36. DK calls elvis townie, claims he requested explained reads for that very reason (207). This was totally not the sense I got when he requested it, especially because someone else had already attacked the list, albeit more specifically, with a similar theme ("where iz frum?").

37. EK having possible vibes toward DK in 208...makes sense given the stated town read, but it departs from the earlier attitude...

38. Not sure why BB thinks Toasty and I are scumspots on the Ludi wagon.

39. @ Gamma

There's also the small thing about elvis responding to an invisible ghost that takes AGM's words and changes them into saying that AGM is king and decider of obvtown, lynches, and all things, but it's mostly the not caring thing.

IIRC, this is one of the anti-strawmen where you assume elvis is making it up but the other person's claims really were that absurd.

40. Juls finally gives me an inkling of why people might think Amrun is scum ("doesn't want to kill DK aggressively enough"). Which, ye know. It still isn't THAT bad. <_<

41.

1. I thought Vi was having a sincere restriction here because she doesn't tend to be deliberately annoying but... "idiot input" is my hobby and job. For serious. C-worl was quite obviously fake so I said as much. It's more a neutral thing. I don't see much point to them alignment-wise.

I'd missed this. Really? What character in the DW Universe would have that kind of PR? I guess she might be an arbalest or something, though I dunno who that'd be associated with...I guess if some Shu characters are town/Neutral, maybe Yue Ying, but I doubt she'd make the game otherwise given the implicit set-up...

42. Not sure why RF has a town read on GreyICE rE: 247. Null, sure. Town, idk.

43. I don't understand why people (other than Amrun, who explaind it) get a townvibe from Ludi's comeback post (254). Well, I mean, I DO, but I think they're missing context.

Ludi says RF isn't scum (which I think 1-2 players use as evidence that Ludi is town -- namely Amrun, IIRC), but RF had already moved on to other targets and discounted his read on Ludi, so olive-branching him is an obvious, low-risk move. I'm not sure why he singles-out Katsuki as the other "scum" on his wagon -- he says that it's a weak vote, even though that's the same as what CSL did, and then he says that Katsuki is scum for saying that CSL is doing it, which is enough POV-fails to make my head spin.

44. Not sure why inHIM votes DUM. All DUM did is say like I EXIST.

EDIT: Oh. So it's because that's all that happened. Fair enough, though WHY ARE PEOPLE NOT KILLING LUDI WITH FIRE GOD.

45. RedC attacks Toast. Also, RC asks me about Ludislip for the second (2) time.

46. I wish DUM had made his replace-in post more readable. I suppose it gives us some reads, but it's impossible to find the specific arguments being referenced without lots of legwork. Not unlike the RedC bits.

47. Don't like the Amrun attacks, probably, though I can't really tell what DUM is disliking, so ye.

48. DUM I THINK YOU ARE IGNORING LUDI ENTIRELY? WTF. (Is it just later?)

49. I have never played with RCtown before AFAICR. Just RCscumfriend in Square Enix II. He seemed perfectly capable there sooooo idk where all the hate for his town meta derives from.

50. GreyICE has weird reads.

51. GreyICE is suspicious of Amrun for going back to her old wagon after she grew disaffected from Ludi (and will explain it well enough when I pester her about it in a few pages). This is probably just an error BUT please take note @ GreyICE.

EDIT: But it looks like he also cross-supplies "usual suspects."

52. EK's vote for Amrun feels random again, though I recall from the iso that it's sorta weakly telegraphed.

53. If this is "improvedDK," I would hate to say "normalDK."

54. Amrun's explanation on leaving Ludi is still fine. I'd like her to reflect on RF's having already left him rhetorically + Ludi loving this flavor + Ludi mainly just flavor talking and then attacking those rhetoricing against him.

55. Not sure why it's scummy for Amrun to go back to her original suspect after losing interest in her second one re: GreyICE. Seems pretty basic to me.

56. Amrun is towntown. I mean she just is. Ima look at her wagon whenever I finally reach the end of this thread with extreme scrutiny.

57. Ludi does MOAR really confusing set-up /outguess, appealing to Gamma, in 365. Then he separates his post in two nicely with -------s and continues to call me scum for continuing to call him scum.

58. Did GreyICE ever answer what was wrong about Ludi's post as alluded to in 366? Cuz idk. Is it just a joke about wanting AGM votes?

59. Vi, if you've read any of my town games (and I know you've read AT LEAST 1), you know that I waffle like hell if asked specific questions that I don't think have a clear answer (re: 371).

60. RC asks me to explain Ludislip for the THIRD (3) time. Also, I missed your other thing -- I never ignore meta, and meta was the only thing making me somewhat iffy on Amrun way back when sooooo ye.

Also, not sure why he decides to vote Amrun over Toast or BB, even giving the content in the same wallpost. Hell, some of his Amrun-related wallposts sound apologetic ("Maybe you're in too many games").

61. EK 380 re: Amrun is scummy. It wouldn't make any sense for scumAmrun to deliberately subvert her advantage, unless scumAmrun DOESN'T fake townAmrun -- which I doubt, because Amrun said somewhere that she's never been lynched as mafia IIRC. And she already explained why she changed her strategy when I asked her about it. <_<

62.

You didn't answer my question: you brought up meta, not me, but my meta doesn't support your statement. I have, so far, scumhunted a lot as scum. You say it's not all meta-based, but why bring up meta when it does not support your argument at all and contradicts it?

Amrun, are you claiming a meta-contrast between your old playstyles, or just commenting that you are good at being scum?

63. Toast's townread on RedC MAKES NO SENSE. AT ALL. NONE. ZERO. NONE. AT ALL. WHOA.

Ugh, and his other reads aren't much better, but I already talked about some of those.

64.

It's more than a little weird that scumhunterRedC gives you good feelings, but you didn't read him carefully enough to recognize that he's asked me about Ludi over and over. O_o

QFT

65.

JUST A FEW PAGES LEFT. I THINK I'M ON UHH 16 OR SO IDK.

[Vi]

Vi, Do you think DK is scum?

Inasmuch as I can read his posts, yes. Or at least enough to where I would recommend his death whenever a convenient opportunity arises.

Also, why purposefully fake a post restriction? I always thought it was fake but that didn't bother me too much. I stilk want to know, though.

Question of the day, is it not?
1) I wanted to do it before the game started. Why not? It's fun (for me), the high points of what I want to say should be quite clear, and it gives me a chance to troll weak-minded people who use it as a flashpoint issue.
2) hitogoroshi touched on it after the fact with his recent MD thread, but I wanted to experiment with being less transparent for a change.

Let's elaborate on that second point by looking at my last two games.
**Cowboy Bebop Remix: Scum. Lynched embarrassingly.
*Neruzian Era Mafia: Scum. Lynched embarrassingly.
One would think that if I drew scum in this game, even if I wanted to do the post restriction pregame, I would have stopped as soon as it started putting me at the top of scumlists. If I have a hard time being scum normally, maintaining a fake post restriction (especially after being reminded of Cow in ASoS) would be fairly suicidal. Granted that's WIFOM and I've stopped temporarily now, but if my previous post was not EXTREMELY TRANSPARENT TOWN (the kind of thing I'm trying

not

to do) you are in denial; probably induced by holding a scum Role PM, being incompetent at Mafia, or just being a jerkwad in general.

---

Toasto, you've lost sight of why Gammagooey is dueling in the first place.

[Iecerint]

I was pretty sure it was fake due to the flavor, but I thought it was just Vi being Vi. ^^~

OK BACK TO WERK.

[Magister Ludi]

Unvote

Vote: Toasty

This is a good wagon not just because of his play but also because I have town reads on most people on it.

[ToastyToast]

Toasty: I never said you had bad reads, so nice misrep. I did, however, say you were pushing bad cases. Newsflash: you are. It is true that you pushed DUM more than Katsuki, but I dislike your "case" on Katsuki more than your case on DUM, though I dislike them both. Though while we're at it, if you reach the correct conclusion with incorrect logic, your conclusion is still incorrect: therefore, even if you are town and DUM and Katsuki are scum, your reads would still be bad. Those are the rules of logic, sir.

I sense that this is a "caught for the wrong reasons" temper tantrum from Toasty.

I need to check the vote count before voting.

Oh, please. 1)My "case" on Katsuki (which I never made, I just pointed out that her lurking was coming off as scummy and as such she made it at the lowest part of my scum-list). OF COURSE U DONT LIKE MY CASE. IT DOESNT EXIST BECAUSE I WAS SIMPLY VOICING A SUSPICION. I DONT WANT TO LYNCH HER. Putting someone as your fifth-most-likely scum is essentially an FOS.

2)Oh, I'm sorry. I find using someone else's playing style habits as reason to vote me to be INCREDIBLY suspect. Its also obnoxious.

3)Whats logical to one person can be illogical to another. I am connecting things that I FIND SCUMMY with players that I FIND SCUMMY. Its basic deduction. Also, I could go on and on about YOUR idiotic conclusions with regards to the little "incorrect" thing. Give me one thing that ensures someone is scum. Oh, thats right, nothing does. So, if I find actions that

I think

indicate scum, I WILL FUCKING FOLLOW THEM.

4) No this is a legitimate rage session about how annoyed I am with everyone in this game. I have never felt so unappreciated in a game. I WORKED MY ASS OFF. I read, and re-read, and tried my best to find scum--to find things that other people were missing. But what does it get me? All it does is push me from my usual area of null and into the area of "OLOOKHESUCKSLYNCH"

Seriously, I feel like the people on my lynch are just bored and want to get to night phase. Do me a favor and make sure Amrun gets lynched after me.

[ToastyToast]

Toasto, you've lost sight of why Gammagooey is dueling in the first place.

I get it, but odds are he has some other power that he'll achieve after a duel, and I don't consider him townie enough to grant him that, as you all seem to.

[ToastyToast]

Also, I'm ready to claim whenever

[ToastyToast]

Somewhere along the four minutes I spent reading up I missed exactly why ToastyToast is getting ganged up on aside from the usual.

I think the charges against him are being trumped up and don't expect a scum flip at all, but not enough of value would be lost if he died so... whatever.

I'm on vacation and will continue to be on vacation at Gammagooey's deadline, people are acting like/being mental invalids, if and when he flips Town I will question the appropriate parties' alignment and {call for their immediate execution, insult their intelligence} accordingly.

btw, this is scummy. lol Vi back on scumlist again

[Vi]

Toasto, you've lost sight of why Gammagooey is dueling in the first place.

I get it, but odds are he has some other power that he'll achieve after a duel, and I don't consider him townie enough to grant him that, as you all seem to.

The claim he made is not likely to come from scum. Regardless, he's going to get held so accountable for the duel

because

of his claim.

Why does inHim have no votes.

Unvote: Amrun
Vote: inHimshallibe

(L-10)

Cut: Magister Ludi is not incorrect that the Toastwagon has ~Town reads on it mostly. I don't think your death or claim is necessary, but if six other people of good repute think otherwise, if it's actually going to help them so be it. Much to my chagrin, the odds don't seem that great that anyone's going to do a favor for my reads, so etc.

[Vi]

six other people of good repute think otherwise

^^^^Statement made without actually counting people on the vote count. Not an implication that the six people on the wagon are of good repute.

[ToastyToast]

Cut: Magister Ludi is not incorrect that the Toastwagon has ~Town reads on it mostly. I don't think your death or claim is necessary, but if six other people of good repute think otherwise, if it's actually going to help them so be it. Much to my chagrin, the odds don't seem that great that anyone's going to do a favor for my reads, so etc.

But look at the people who voiced a strong suspicion in me before the wagon formed. Quite a few scumreads there, eh? That way when i flip town they can say they weren't on the wagon/that I wasn't their #1 suspect.

Also, Amrun? DUM? Katsuki? Ludi? You think those people are town-reads? Last time I checked all were on my scum-list/leaning-scum. RedCayote and Gamma are the exceptions from my PoV.

[Magister Ludi]

Actually toasty, I am leaning town on everybody on your wagon.

(kat, amrun, dum, myself, Gama, Alamaster {maybe less so alamaster})

Helping influence this is People of bad standing on these reads (inhim, you, bastard on DUM, diety on kat. elvis greyice on Amrun)

Also, do you still believe in this
"sigh...your misunderstanding me. People are going to want to duel, regardless of what the town is thinking. In a situation i which a person is ABSOLUTELY convinced that another is scum, and they believe they have enough evidence to convince the town (which must be done regardless of the duel mechanic), then I feel they have enough reason to start said duel. A duel implies that its not town-vs-suspect--it, at its root, is still one player versus another. Dueling a person forces everyone to pay attention."

Would you be willing to duel inhim?

A INHIM vote! Gold.

[ToastyToast]

I'm not absolutely convinced that inhim is scum. So no way. I am shocked by your reads.