Wizards at the Sorcerers' Den - Endgame

[SGRaaize]

No. Not really. I argue that reading meticulously is something that scum tends to do more than town. Remember that it's much harder to lie consistently than to simply tell the truth- and thus scum needs to be more careful about reads and ensure that they're consistently lying.

Even though that has its logic, its 100% absurd to use that logic to somehow consider this:

Wraith has already given his reads on me and Beefster, Icey. Try reading.

Even slightly scummy

[SGRaaize]

Actually, that is a little scummy in context, as it looks like another piece of the aforementioned "mudslinging"

[Amrun]

How is that mudslinging? It isn't at all. It isn't even an accusation.

[gandalf5166]

Re: Multiple scum factions: It also EXPLICITLY states that there may be other factions. Notice the "at least". Now, the second scumteams may be less damaging than a normal scum faction, like in the last game, where the mageslayers just had to kill a certain number of people(scum were valid targets). But I would bet CASH MONEY that there is more than one scumteam in this game.

[CryMeARiver]

43 pages for a D1 lynch is beyond overkill for a swingy game like this.

[Albert B. Rampage]

43 pages for a D1 lynch is beyond overkill for a swingy game like this.

[Amrun]

SGR, what you listed as my "points" against Beefster do not even remotely resemble my points. You clearly don't understand my case on Beefster, and I've explained it pretty clearly, so I am not sure whether pursuing this conversation is worthwhile, but the choice is yours.

And for people complaining that I'm "tunneling" on Beefster, that is clearly not the case. I have and have maintained several different scumreads, including but not limited to Beefster. I spent a fair amount of time questioning him when he was (but no longer is) my top scumread, and I really don't care if you think that's anti-town because it is not. However, much MORE time was spent on the issue than should have been because other people keep dragging the issue up, so I am obliged to respond.

I no longer have Beefster as a significant scumread and all talk of Beefster is in response to others questioning me, so any further accusations of tunneling will be ignored.

(Another protip: tunneling isn't a scumtell anyway.)

P-edit: My point is that scumhunting in that manner on day 1 is a terrible idea. It's like pissing in the wind.

P-edit 2 and 3: Agreed, but I won't roll over and be lynched, either. Let's just lynch implosion or RBT and be done with it.

[SGRaaize]

I have been putting this vote on Implosion for years. You guys are the slow ones.

[Beefster]

43 pages for a D1 lynch is beyond overkill for a swingy game like this.

Clearly you haven't seen OoT mafia.
But yes, I mostly agree.

[Bunnylover]

And thx 4 the scumslip. Nice to know there are two scumteams. I'm assuming you're a mage.

Okay, then I'm right in thinking that was a slip.

HEY GUYS! SHUT THE FUCK UP WITH YOUR WALLS AND VOTE!

Vote: RBT

Unvote, Vote CMAR

You of all people would know in the last game their was magekillers. RBT was in the last game. Therefore assuming the game has magekiller would be logical from a past player.

[Soben]

Bunnylover + Implosion for scum buddies.

[Soben]

I'm too lazy to read back. We are currently voting implosion, correct?

Implosion's annoyance at having to explain himself early on reads as scum motivation to me. Town players don't usually give the whole "I already explained it" pov in the early game especially when they haven't taken a lot of heat. Town generally are willing to explain themselves further to help foster good communication and reiterate their towniness. Anti town players generally are annoyed that they are being asked to explain themselves particularly when they feel they have already given good reason for their actions.

[Dry-fit]

Feysal, I voted for the wrong person

Unvote

I was looking to vote VOTE: Dry-Fit but I was reading Feysal last post comment
at the time. The reason being they are far more lurky than me and providing less content.

Interesting. What do you think of RBT? Peregrine?

[CryMeARiver]

And thx 4 the scumslip. Nice to know there are two scumteams. I'm assuming you're a mage.

Okay, then I'm right in thinking that was a slip.

HEY GUYS! SHUT THE FUCK UP WITH YOUR WALLS AND VOTE!

Vote: RBT

Unvote, Vote CMAR

You of all people would know in the last game their was magekillers. RBT was in the last game. Therefore assuming the game has magekiller would be logical from a past player.

Whew wow. This is bad.

1) Of course after he said that I remembered there were magekillers. But there is no way in hell I was thinking about that throughout the first 40 pages of the game. Why the hell would I reference the last game? There is no way he was thinking of that in my opinion.
2) Welcome back. How was lurking?
3) 43 pages and you lay your vote a) on me b) for that reason? You're either a fucking terrible player or scum. Or both.

[CryMeARiver]

Note to people:
If you fill HP or grant more HP, I would greatly appreciate it and put it to great use (a use besides the obvious having more health)

Also:

On the ABR question topic (the relevant thing):
I personally don't think coordinating our damage is necessary. Besides completely ridiculous people, everyone that is town with damaging spells would use it on players they find scummy. No matter if that player is scum it will either a) Damage/Kill scum b) Damage/Kill 3rd Party or c) Damage/Kill town that is ripe for a mislynch (like SGR).
However, if we were to make a list of the top 3 people to damage that night to coordinate it, I'd propose we also do it for investigating abilities (not protection because that'd let mafia know who we're protecting).

Since everyone's unnecessarily extending the day, might as well start this.

Top 3 list to damage. Top 3 list to investigate. Shall we begin?

[SGRaaize]

Assuming Implosion gets lynched

Damage:

1) Amrun
2) RiceBallTrail
3) Beefster

Investigate:

1) SGRaaize
2) PeregrineV
3) Dry-Fit

[gandalf5166]

I think the possibility of a framer or a similar role in this game is too high to give mafia that much info on investigations.

[SGRaaize]

Hmm... Actually... I changed my mind on that

Damage:

1) Amrun
2) RiceBallTrail
3) Beefster

Investigate:

1) SGRaaize
2) RiceBallTrail
3) Beefster

[SGRaaize]

I think the possibility of a framer or a similar role in this game is too high to give mafia that much info on investigations.

That's a fair point, another fair point is hider and protector.
If we manage to put a Top 3 List with two of the three names being Mafia, though, I think we can damage and protect Mafia.

Plus, if we manage to damage someone that is for some reason not damaged at all tomorrow, we can always suspect him.

[CryMeARiver]

I think the possibility of a framer or a similar role in this game is too high to give mafia that much info on investigations.

Good call. Only damage then.

[Katy]

WHOOPS. That was my hydra account. This is actually me saying this:

Yessss ... implosion.

I dunno, I kind of think if we all give three names the lists will be different enough that mafia would have to be pretty clever to second guess exactly which target something was going to land on. There's no guarantee an investigator is going to simply pick the number one choice, nor that damagers will all focus on the number one choice. Plus, it amuses me to think of scum sorting through all these lists trying to WIFOM their way into guessing targets.

Damagers and investigators still have agency to pick whoever they like so I don't think we're leaving an explicit roadmap for scum, but scum will have to give out some pretty interesting info and I have had lists like these pay off big time in end games before when scum had to make them. That said, I will stick with damage only for now, since that seems to be the new plan and I don't think the investigate list is really necessary, any more than in any other game.

My pix (assuming imposion lynch):

Damage:
1) Dry-fit
2) Snake Plissken
3) Beefster

[Albert B. Rampage]

As DGB says, is this a tea party gathering or an angry lynching mob?

[Amrun]

Damage:

1 RiceBallTail
2 Implosion
3 Zdenek

I keep changing my mind about the third.

[Dry-fit]

Damage:

1. Riceballtail
2. Katy (omgus)
3. Gandalf

[implosion]

I'm going to post this in increments to prevent it looking like SGR's mile-long walls of death.

On the pine kill; it could be a modkill, but it was probably either a scum kill or a third party kill. Either way, it isn't necessarily true that the scum/third party would have to activate the ability every time someone nameclaims. And even if they do, there could be other negative effects other than just a town member dying every time it happens. I doubt it was a modkill. I doubt that pine would be modkilled for nameclaiming. It was probably a mechanic of the game, an ability like "target any player, if you know their rolename, they will die." Essentially, we don't know enough about the mechanic to merit a plan like SGR's. Besides, SB would probably take steps against allowing the game to be broken.

^: Forgot to justify:

1) Voting Soben at the start of D1 before he even posted to Hydra-hunt (What?)

2) Changing his town-tell on Gandalf to a scum-tell for, basically, very mediocre reasoning (viewtopic.php?p=3064825#p3064825)

The first one, I've explained. The second one, iirc, I never even explained the town-tell on gandalf, it was just a minor gut thing.

Katy, why did you do the vote unvote icey thing twice?

The plan about claiming was flawed from the beginning because it is an attempt to outguess the mod, and it ignores the fact that this is a complex setup.

Hmm, how about we have the next serious wagon that's going to be the lynch (I don't mean L-1, I mean intent to hammer and everything) claim and see what happens? If he instantly dies, we may be on to something, if he doesn't and he's scum, we may be on to something, if we don't and he's town, we're probably wrong.

Stop trying to outguess the mod. It's entirely possible that (WARNING: SPECULATION):
-there is a third-party role that gets more powerful every time it kills someone that nameclaims
-there is a third-party role that wins if it kills enough people through nameclaims/kills related to names
-the mafia get more powerful every time they kill someone through nameclaims
-every nameclaim gives scum/thirdparty a kill that they can use on anyone
etc. We don't know how the mechanic works. A plan like this (or any plan related to the mechanism) is bound to fail. Nobody is nameclaiming. Ever.

I am not outguessing Snow_Bunny when Snow_Bunny is basically making sure everyone knows CLAIMING MEANS DEATH.

You are outguessing Snow_Bunny when you speculate that the cause of this death has no other negative effects towards the killed, and that Snow_Bunny wouldn't have thought of something like this being possible when making the game.

Nice town reads. You got any scum reads?

People (like Amrun) that attacked this are right. It's ridiculous to attack someone for not posting scumreads in one post when they have posted scumreads in other posts, especially since it was a request to post reads on those players.

tl;dr most (not all) of this post: stop trying to use game mechanics that we do not know the details of as a basis for a plan that would shape the entire game. It's stupid and foolhardy, and S_B probably has something in place to stop it, and S_B even warned us SPECIFICALLY not to try to break the game.