00s Band Mafia (Game Over!)

[DemonHybrid]

I get fucking annoyed when people are so blind that they can't see their stupid arguments and instead resort to insulting the other player for doing the right thing. So congratulations, you pissed me off.

[Magua]

Since the cat is out of the bag I should get this out there so my affiliate(s) can get this info. Don't bother with Magua/Nicodemus slot, it is VT.

And you think that this clears Magua?

You're insulting nintendo. He isn't that fucking dumb.

So do you think I am or am not a VT? Yes or no, please, that's all I ask.

[DemonHybrid]

Since the cat is out of the bag I should get this out there so my affiliate(s) can get this info. Don't bother with Magua/Nicodemus slot, it is VT.

And you think that this clears Magua?

You're insulting nintendo. He isn't that fucking dumb.

So do you think I am or am not a VT? Yes or no, please, that's all I ask.

YES, you're a VT, but I'm saying that NINTENDO'S STATEMENT didn't clear you in the least.

[Regfan]

"Oh hey, an outed scum said plainly in the game thread that someone is a VT, and then flipped a scum rolecop! Yeah, that flipped scum is telling the truth!"

If you read it in context it's incredibly obvious that he did it to give his partners information not to wifom, on top of that Magua pushed strongly on EPM who also flipped scum, there literally is zilch reasoning for checking him last night.

""Oh hey, instead of investigating someone who has been vocal behind a scum lynch and might be carefully calculating a bus, investigate someone who is bound to get lynched! That way, you can sit back and watch a confirmed innocent get lynched OR out your role! Sounds good to me!"

Doesn't that sound dumb? Because it's you.

You stated you believed I was obvtown, the fact that there's a small chance I might be calculated bussing shouldn't make it optimal to check me, and no there's no way you would stand back and watch your confirmed innocent get lynched as you could easily claim and outting your role isn't that bad. There's multiple players in the pool of [Not obv town] and [Not getting lynched] which would have been good checks.

[Magua]

Since the cat is out of the bag I should get this out there so my affiliate(s) can get this info. Don't bother with Magua/Nicodemus slot, it is VT.

And you think that this clears Magua?

You're insulting nintendo. He isn't that fucking dumb.

So do you think I am or am not a VT? Yes or no, please, that's all I ask.

YES, you're a VT, but I'm saying that NINTENDO'S STATEMENT didn't clear you in the least.

So, then, you *do* think that nintendo is, and I quote, "that fucking dumb"?

[DemonHybrid]

If you read it in context it's incredibly obvious that he did it to give his partners information not to wifom, on top of that Magua pushed strongly on EPM who also flipped scum, there literally is zilch reasoning for checking him last night.

I can't believe that you can't see how wrong this statement is.

You stated you believed I was obvtown, the fact that there's a small chance I might be calculated bussing shouldn't make it optimal to check me, and no there's no way you would stand back and watch your confirmed innocent get lynched as you could easily claim and outting your role isn't that bad. There's multiple players in the pool of [Not obv town] and [Not getting lynched] which would have been good checks.

Someone who looks extremely town to everyone IS optimal for an investigate. If they end up turning up scum, then it's the most IMPORTANT action anyone could take! Jesus christ. Everyone else who is not obvtown and not getting lynched will be trialed in the future and therefore would waste an investigate.

@Magua: I'm confused at nintendo's actions, because I didn't think he is that dumb (and I expected everyone to think the same), and I still don't, but it was a stupid move. He's not a bad player and I didn't think he would plainly state your role and alignment for real.

[Regfan]

A cops job is not to check the players that everyone reads as town, it's to check players that they believe everyone has no read on. When this game ends I suggest making a topic in the mafia discussion threads asking if you believe your checks were optimal or not, I'm sure you'll be told then.

[Magua]

@Magua: I'm confused at nintendo's actions, because I didn't think he is that dumb (and I expected everyone to think the same), and I still don't, but it was a stupid move. He's not a bad player and I didn't think he would plainly state your role and alignment for real.

What about claiming VT, and then claiming non-VT?

What about, upon being told about his role mixup, claiming mafia instead of the obvious "I did that to avoid getting NK'ed"?

[DemonHybrid]

@Magua: I'm confused at nintendo's actions, because I didn't think he is that dumb (and I expected everyone to think the same), and I still don't, but it was a stupid move. He's not a bad player and I didn't think he would plainly state your role and alignment for real.

What about claiming VT, and then claiming non-VT?

What about, upon being told about his role mixup, claiming mafia instead of the obvious "I did that to avoid getting NK'ed"?

A mistake, and a way to cut losses. If he was cutting losses, I saw no reason for him to do what he did. I thought it was WIFOM at the time and I was more focused on Regfan's position, but your push on EPM allowed me to explore it further.

@Regfan: You obviously don't get the fucking point. Maybe if you go read a few games where "obvtown" players end up being scum, then you'd change your mind. I can link a few for you right now.

[Scumhunter]

Regfan, who cares who he checked...what is the purpose of your line of thought here. He has 2 living innocents. Why insult his play, look at the bright side?

[Scumhunter]

Regfan, who cares who he checked...what is the purpose of your line of thought here. He has 2 living innocents. Why insult his play, look at the bright side?

[DemonHybrid]

Here, Regfan, do some fucking research.

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=16260

Read xRECK's spot.

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=16537

Read Bub's spot.

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=15614

Read LMP's spot.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... =1&t=15121

Read Lewarcher's spot.

IT HAPPENS ALL THE TIME. A COP IS MORE USEFUL IF HE MAKES SURE THE TOWNIE-LOOKING ONES ARE IN FACT TOWN.

[Regfan]

@Regfan: You obviously don't get the fucking point. Maybe if you go read a few games where "obvtown" players end up being scum, then you'd change your mind. I can link a few for you right now.

So let me get this right.

Because in the past there have been players that have been read incorrectly it's best to doubt your reads and use your cop check to make sure of them, rather than checking someone you know nothing about?

PEdit: Alright, lets assume you're right and in 10% of the games the person obvtown is scum, your check would help town 10% of the time, the other 90% of the time it's a useless check.

[DemonHybrid]

A player is dangerous if he is scum and is viewed as obvtown by EVERYONE, but not confirmed.

And it's not even CLOSE to 10%. This happens ALL THE TIME. I personally pulled up 1/4 of the games that I lost (I have a 40% win rate).

There are a ton of games, with doing some browsing, which I'm not going to do just to drive a point home that you should have understood a while ago, that can be found that have the same scenario. Someone looks obvtown from the start, or someone becomes obvtown near the end and they end up just being an awesome scum player. The ones that people know nothing about, or don't have any feelings about WILL BE TRIALED. They will be questioned. And if they become obvtown to EVERYONE, they should be checked too. Yes, technically there's a less chance to catch scum by a little bit, but it's by FAR more important if you do catch them.

[DemonHybrid]

At least understand where the fuck I'm coming from instead of putting me down as a bad player. I like you, Regfan, but I'm fucking sick and tired of the elitist attitude from everyone on this site and you have to agree that I have a POINT, even if you don't agree with it.

[Regfan]

A player is dangerous if he is scum and is viewed as obvtown by EVERYONE, but not confirmed.

I can agree that a player viewed as obvtown by everyone and is actually scum can be dangerous that's when you have to make a decision, re-read his posts, look at the information they have put foward evaluate what likelyhood you believe there is that he did indeed buss or not. You claim to have done all of this and believe I was town at the end of it yet still check me, that's the bit I can not understand.

And it's not even CLOSE to 10%. This happens ALL THE TIME. I personally pulled up 1/4 of the games that I lost (I have a 40% win rate). There are a ton of games, with doing some browsing, which I'm not going to do just to drive a point home that you should have understood a while ago, that can be found that have the same scenario. Someone looks obvtown from the start, or someone becomes obvtown near the end and they end up just being an awesome scum player.

Again, that's when you count on your reads, you reasses them. You could also check up their meta and you would have found I'm not a strong scum player.

The ones that people know nothing about, or don't have any feelings about WILL BE TRIALED. They will be questioned. And if they become obvtown to EVERYONE, they should be checked too.

Not many players have been questioned or trialled, you certaintly haven't trialled anyone yourself, if you have then state your reads on the remaining players.

Yes, technically there's a less chance to catch scum by a little bit, but it's by FAR more important if you do catch them.

This comes back to; Town believe X is Town. You check X because there's a small chance he's good scum. You find out X is indeed Town, you have no new information to offer Town.

[Regfan]

At least understand where the fuck I'm coming from instead of putting me down as a bad player. I like you, Regfan, but I'm fucking sick and tired of the elitist attitude from everyone on this site and you have to agree that I have a POINT, even if you don't agree with it.

I haven't stated that you're a bad player, I've observed previous games of yours and indeed do think you've performed well in them I just cannot understand the logic you're attempting to put forward to defend your checks.

[Scumhunter]

Regfan. Who cares? We have this game well in hand...There are better ways to get your point across. I would have probably checked you n1 if I were cop. I doubt I would have ever checked Magua, but whatever. Moving on...who is mafia?

>Mfw Regfan godfather

[Scumhunter]

WHY DID IT DO THAT?

[Magua]

DemonHybrid believes in the argument he's selling.

I still think he's scum. I still want to lynch him.

C-worl is town. Rereading EPM, EPM is self-admittedly capable of bussing, but I believe that he was trying to stick as much truth into his story as he could. To that end, I think he really did roleblock C-worl and really was the one who submitted the kill on Pine. Maybe he was doing it in case he was tracked or watched. Dunno. But I believe that he was allowed to submit both a kill and a roleblock and that that was the foundation for him making that JOAT claim.

Fun fact: Goath has not been on site since before D3 ended. Doubtful he's scum. Scum, even if they submitted the kill via QT, would be reading the thread to try to identify a PR.

tarsonisocelot is probably town, given lynching attempts by both nintendo and EPM at the same time D2.

Gorilla: For Gorilla to be scum would require Nintendo, Gorilla, and EPM to all be on tarsonis at the same time with no town on. Not buying it.

diddin I have a null read on, but his role usage is strongly town. Pine had expressed suspicion of diddin's role usage, but the last thing that scum needs after shooting two VTs and having a scumlynch D2 with a strong leaning towards another scumlynch D3 is to resurrect one of those VTs. I'm totally willing to give him a pass here.

Chesskid is probably still scum.

Scumhunter is PoE scum if it's not DemonHybrid + Chesskid.

PEdit:

MOTHERFUCKING POSTS. HOW DO THEY WORK?

[DemonHybrid]

I can agree that a player viewed as obvtown by everyone and is actually scum can be dangerous that's when you have to make a decision, re-read his posts, look at the information they have put foward evaluate what likelyhood you believe there is that he did indeed buss or not. You claim to have done all of this and believe I was town at the end of it yet still check me, that's the bit I can not understand.

What I felt doesn't matter. Everyone pretty much cleared you by logic by the end of Day 2 and I wanted to make sure.

Again, that's when you count on your reads, you reasses them. You could also check up their meta and you would have found I'm not a strong scum player.

You can't rely on meta. You can cite site statistics, but focusing a case on meta is a dangerous thing to do.

Not many players have been questioned or trialled, you certaintly haven't trialled anyone yourself, if you have then state your reads on the remaining players.

Because I'm sitting here arguing this bullshit with you. Though I will state my reads. There's more than enough information with two scumflips to do some analysis and come to an informed decision. We're big boys and I'd rather not use my PR to hold everyone's hand, but check the nook and crannies. Let me do some ISOing.

This comes back to; Town believe X is Town. You check X because there's a small chance he's good scum. You find out X is indeed Town, you have no new information to offer Town.

And if I find out X is scum?

HURRAY! Game loss avoided. Wouldn't that just be fucking awesome?

Preview edit: Then don't imply it. I've never played cop before, but I've seen games where the cop has been played. You guys are grown-ups and can do some analysis and weed out the rest of the scum, ESPECIALLY now that everyone KNOWS your clear and the doubt is gone.

Preview edit to Magua:



This is a fucking tunnel. It's what you're doing, and I know, because you started your post off with the words "selling an argument".

You don't look on both sides of the argument, and therefore you are failing at assessing motivation.

Also, you suspecting chesskid is absolute fucking fail. Start thinking.

[Regfan]

Regfan. Who cares? We have this game well in hand...There are better ways to get your point across. I would have probably checked you n1 if I were cop. I doubt I would have ever checked Magua, but whatever. Moving on...who is mafia?

>Mfw Regfan godfather

I care, I need to understand where he's coming from if I'm going to get a proper read on him, and you wouldn't have checked me N2 Scumhunter.

Magua, I want mass-claim so bad.

[DemonHybrid]

2. Gaoth
4. Gorilla
8. Diddin
13. c-worl
14. tarsonisocelot
16. scumhunter

Redoing that list I had earlier since I forgot to take out Pine, my lynch pool is from these 6. I will be assessing interactions with both EPM and Nintendo, though from what I've seen of Gaoth's interactions, it's going to be hard to sway me from his death.

Be back soon.

[Scumhunter]

I would have checked you n1 Regfan. I don't agree with Demon's thought process on his checks, but I definitely believe that he believes his thought process which is what is more important at this stage.

Magua, chesskid claimed miller on day 1. If there is a miller it almost always implies a cop I'd say. If there are no cc's to town cop, I think we have to take his claim at face value and give Demon like 90% clear status.

Food for thought, what if mafia have daytalk and nintendo gave his partners the real rolecop in there and just tried to "clear" his partner Magua by claiming he is VT in thread.

[Regfan]

Food for thought, what if mafia have daytalk and nintendo gave his partners the real rolecop in there and just tried to "clear" his partner Magua by claiming he is VT in thread.

1) There's a clear on Magua
2) Magua is obvtown without the clear or the comment by Nintendo
3) If there was daytalk Nintendo wouldn't have claimed mafia, he would have stalled until he got advice in the day-talk