00s Band Mafia (Game Over!)

[Regfan]

I shall update myself with the recent occurances in the next hour or so, but first I want to suggest the idea of band-claiming.

In the rules it blatantly states that some mafia will have bands that aren't from the 00's meaning it's possible that they themselves will have to fake-claim giving us a chance to have instant counter claims.

[Regfan]

yes but this also could benefit scum, nameclaiming just causes flavor speculation and then people get off-task at the game at hand.

also, did i mention it could benefit scum?

As far as I can tell the benefits exceed the negatives greatly. I don't see much possible that scum can gain from band-claiming, if you have something you believe they would please share. The longer we delay name-claiming the more time we allow for scum to come up with their fake-claims.

[Regfan]

This isn't exactly a fast-paced game and it's not that hard to come up with a band and a song that refers to "powers everyone has." We're not gonna gain anything by rushing it.

Valid point. I'll refrain from stating my town-reads at the current moment.

Vote: Goath.

This is in no way random.

[Regfan]

Why does it seem that you think I'm being a little serious, or anyone else, about the name claims?

My suggestion to band-claim had nothing to do with your 'joke', it was something I was pondering pre-game. I still see no reason not to at the moment.

------------------------
Evilpacman, I'll enlighten in regards to how Gaoth is mafia in time, I want to see some more players thoughts of the game first.
------------------------
Scumhunter, any early reads?
------------------------
Nintendo, what's your thoughts on chesskid and Pine at the moment?

[Regfan]

Since we're asking what if questions, "What if I stuck my pecker in a toaster? What would happen then?"
Seriously, the discussion seems stupid right now.

You'll need to be more specific, which posts do you believe are 'what if' questions and do you find the people asking them to be scummy due to it? Also, if you believe the discussion was 'stupid' right now why not attempt to move conversation elsewhere?

[Regfan]

Likelihood is that I'll be V/LA for the next few days (Internet might be getting shut of), so I'm just going to post my anaylsis now.

Pages 1-3

Post #4 by Chesskid3 - Miller claim, reads as legitimate. Town-read from it.
Post #7 by Nintendo - Revenge vote, null-tell ultimately.
Post #11 by Talapus - Unsure whether to read this as over-eager scum or noob-town, leaning the latter barely at the moment.
Post #22 by DH - This was discussed pre-game before roles were handed out, bringing this up again reeks of scum.
Post #23 by Pine - Pines reaction reads as town.
Post #25 by Hiraki - Unsure what he means about Nintendo or it's relevance, null tell for now.
Post #30 by DH - Continues attacking Pine for something that's a known null-tell, random voting and asking for a lynch is essentially the definition of the RVS period.
Post #34 by Hiraki - Interesting comment, need to check and read into Hirakis meta a bit however I'd consider it to be a town-tell.
Post #35 by Gorilla - Sweet. Fairly sure G is town from this post.
Post #47 by Gaoth - Complete filler, avoids commenting on the PL suggestion.
Post #48 by Goath - Reads as buddying, brings up a past game which seems to have no relevance to this one.
Post #51 by Evilpacman18 - Setup discussion is a town-tell for Evil, him agreeing towards band-claiming reads as a town-tell.
Post #60 by C-Worl - Very slight town-tell from lack of notice towards the game.
Post #68 by C-Worl - Complaint about the direction of scumhunting being taken with a lack of alternative suggested, slight town-tell from it however.

Reads after 3 Pages

Town (From strongest to weakest):

Gorilla, Chesskid, Pine, Hiraki, C-Worl, Evilpacman18, Talapus.

Null:

Diddin, tarsonisocelot, Parabollocks, Nicodemus, Scumhunter, Nintendo.

Scum (From strongest to weakest):

Gaoth, DemonHybrid.

[Regfan]

3) Because by acknowledging that the convo is stupid you identify that it's an easy place for scum to hide.

If you believe such conversation is an easy spot for mafia to hide wouldn't allowing it to continue and then assesing who took part in it be optimal?

@Regfan: My vote was not random. More on that later, waiting on a response from the mod.

Yes, I know your vote wasn't random but it was still placed in a period of the game where votes didn't lead towards a lynch regardless of the intention behind them therefore I'm unsure how DH finds that to be a reasonable enough case to push towards you with.

[Regfan]

DH, ISO Pine and read all of his other posts, he's obvious town at the moment and drawing discussion around his first post isn't beneficial whatsoever. What's your thoughts on Parama and Gaoth at the moment?

Pine, I've never played with DH before though I've spectated a few of his games, arguing over semantics isn't something I've seen him do as town, however at the same time I don't believe I've ever witnessed any of his scum-games.

[Regfan]

Claiming is very situational based, in this particular situation five pages and less than 24 hours into the game claiming is idiotic though.

[Regfan]

Instead of RVS or RQS Scumhunter breaks the ice into the game via trolling regardless of allignment. It's a fact, just give him a few days and he'll start posting content.

Catching up with the thread now, explosion of posts overnight.

[Regfan]

His role claim shouldn't be enough to make you think he's "Obvious town" Scumhunter, especially since we had a conversation not too long ago discussing how mafia get safe claims in some games. Looking at this setup, I would say that it's entirely reasonable for them to recieve them in this game, thus a claim without a counter-claim isn't clearance material. With that said I'm leaning slight-town on Nintendo.

[Regfan]

Pages 4-7

Post #76 by Pine - Mafia generally avoid mentioning disucssions with the mod in-thread, slight town-tell.
Post #80 by C-Worl - Refrainment in outting of information, slight scum-tell.
Post #82 by DemonHybrid - Agreement with anaylsis however no movement of vote reads as odd [/Url]
Post #93 by Nintendo - Eh, I get a newbtown feel from his read on Pine.
Post #105 by Pine - Although I don't agree with all the points mentioned here it reaffirms my town-Pine read.
Post #106 by C-Worl - Ugh, this reads as opportunistic, why are you ruining my town-read on you C-Worl.
Post #112 by Evilpacman - Good logic, not exactly allignment related though but a slight town-tell from it.
Post #117 by Nintenedo - Claim. Unsure what to make of it for now.
Post #119 by Gorilla - Yeah, still think Gorilla is town, he'd have been fine shifting his vote to another scummy player as mafia.
Post #120 by Para -

Explain the Pine scum-read please.

Post #129 by Pine - Researching to check on Nintendos claim was the first thing I did as well, thus this is a town-tell.
Post #135 by Talapus - Reads as overly fencesitting.
Post #153 by Diddin - I always read forgetting the game started as a slight-town tell, mafia are generally over-eager not hesitant to have the game start.
Post #174 by Gaoth - What? If you did some research it would have been very clear they were big in the early 00's.
Post #175 by Chesskid -

Isn't Eninem an artist not a band.

Post #125 by Goath - Some things about this post:
1) If you didn't understand where the argument was coming from, why not ask in thread?
2) Attempting to work if Para is Parama or not doesn't mean you can't discuss game-relevant factors at the same time.
3)

You said you found and read the sign up page,

there it says that Pine is going to PL Ck regardless of what happens, NOT because CK was voting C-Worl.
4) What makes you believe this is multi-scum?

Town (From strongest to weakest):

Pine, Gorilla, Evilpacman18, Parabollocks, Diddin, Nintendo.

Null:

tarsonisocelot, Nicodemus, DemonHybrid, C-Worl, Hiraki, Scumhunter.

Scum (From strongest to weakest):

Gaoth, Talapus.

Unsure on:

Chesskid

[Regfan]

Scratch that. Move CK back to Town.

Just read "The term 00s "bands" include 00s groups, solo artists"

[Regfan]

flavor speculation is dumb.

You're forgetting it's openely stated in the OP that mafia can have bands that aren't 00's while town can't, meaning if it's impossible to compare this game to 90's.

[Regfan]

Pages 7-9

Post #184 by Gorilla - His nervousness of my town-read on him reads as a geninue town-tell.
Post #185 by Tarsoniscolet - I like the format of the reads, but no reasoning behind them reads as if you're not acutally reading the thread.
Post #194 by Scumhunter My town-read on Diddin is due to the fact he was late to post and stated that he forgot the game started, mafia tend to focus more towards their games than town do intially as well as meta.
Post #197 by Talapus - No reason not to vote you? How is that reasoning for a vote.
Post #204 by Gorilla - Couldn't agree with this more.
Post #206 by Talapus - Reads as overdefensive.
Post #207 by Talapus - I agree with the vote, however the reasoning behind it is awful.

Town (From strongest to weakest):

Pine, Chesskid, Gorilla, Diddin, Evilpacman18, Parabollocks, C-Worl.

Null:

Nicodemus, DemonHybrid, Scumhunter, Nintendo.

Scum (From strongest to weakest):

Gaoth, Talapus, tarsonisocelot, Hiraki.

Scumhunter. I want reads from you in your next post, no excuses.
Chesskid, elaborate on your case on EPM becuase I'm not seeing it at all right now.

[Regfan]

I'm incredibly time-challenged at the moment, have an exam on tommorow so I'll just respond to needed posts.

Regfan suggests name claiming first, but doesn't act as though he is willing/wants to. He then points out that the benefits outweigh the negatives, but from a town perspective, a VT's nameclaim is essentially worthless. the only people who stand to gain from this are scum.

This has to be one of the stupidest posts I have ever read, no offence. I suggested the possibility and willingness towards mass-claiming, this doesn't mean I instantly claim, it merely means I want to gather peoples opinions on the topic. On top of that it's quite clear from reading the OP that there is a gain from name-claiming, that being that it says mafia can have bands that aren't from the 00's while town can not.

Regfan: why ask us to name claim our bands if you are so quick to also point out mafia might have safe claims. Defeats the whole purpose doesn't it.

Simple. I see no real downside to name-claiming while I see potential benefits from it, the benefits don't include clearing players due to their claims (Due to the possibily of safeclaims) but the benefit does include someone claiming a band that isn't 00's or having a possible band counterclaim.

Your strong town tell on Gorilla worries me. You state it so early when his behavior was similar to mine and not serious whatsoever.

It's literally impossible to compare behavior of gorilla and yourself, your meta is to troll the beginning of each game regardless of allignment, thus your behavior up until now has been null.

Also you said you were going to refrain from giving town reads and then spew a whole bunch of them. I don't see how you could have so many reads so early on.

I was going to refrain from stating them because I wanted everyone to fully exit the RVS period before they were discussed. We've had conversations in the past, you're fully aware that I attain majority of my reads within the first five or so pages of the game and then work from there, therefore I'm unsure why you're questioning the number of reads I have.

[Regfan]

This may be the first time that gorilla has ever been right in his mafia career.

Unvote, Vote: Talapus

[Regfan]

I normally avoid doing these however I feel it's needed in this case.

Talapus ISO

Post #1 - RVS on Scumhunter. Fair enough - No issues here.
Post #2 - State you would do more if you had more time. Fair enough - No issues here.
Post #3 - State more conversation is needed while not adding any real conversation or discussion yourself - Contradiction here.
Post #4 - Fencesit on Nitendos allignment.
Post #5 - Corrects a previous error, now states suspicion on Nintendo.
Post #6 - Fluff post.
Post #7 - Vote C-Worl becuase his play is 'bad' not scummy.
Post #8 - Instant removal of the vote the second it was pointed out.
Post #9 - Defends his vote on C-Worl saying that it was reasonable.
Post #10 - Votes Gaoth despite earlier stating suspicion of Nintendo.
Post #11 - Defensiveness of 'Obvious scum/Obvious town' labels, no actual opinions on allignments or scumhunting.
Post #12 - Continuation of 'Obvious scum/Obvious town' argument.
Post #13 - Defensivesness over Gorillas assesment of your play.

So lets summarize:
- You contradicted yourself earlier by stating that more discussion was needed without adding any discussion yourself
- You posted several fluff posts while throwing a policy vote on C-Worl which you quickly retracted.
- You stated suspicion towards Nintendo for his early claim, however refrained from stating your read on him later.
- You put forward a shotty case against Gaoth in which you state you don't care if people agree with your reasoning or not.

[Regfan]

FUCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCK. Posted on the wrong account. This is my post:

1. It is indeed a contradiction, waiting for more people to talk would mean waiting for more discussion, something that is perfectly possible for you to add yourself.

2. Everyone claims potential town, does that mean you shouldn't pursue anyone at all?

3. Gorilla is voting you, if you believe he's potentially town then you should care what he thinks and if you believe he's scum you'd be voting him.

4. You're not at L-1, you're at L-2.

5. You should fully claim, including your song name(s) and anything else included with it.

6. Can you link me to the games you've played off site please.

[Regfan]

That's the hammer, were you scum Talapus? Slaxx will tell us in a few minutes.

[Regfan]

Way to ruin the ploy Tarson....

[Regfan]

Well, there's a decent likelihood I bite the bullet tonight, so here are my current reads.

Players I am absolutely certain are town:

Chesskid, Pine, Gorilla, Diddin.

Town (From strongest to weakest):

Parabollocks, Hiraki, Scumhunter, C-Worl, Evilpacman18.

Null:

Nicodemus, Nintendo.

Scum (From strongest to weakest):

Talapus, Gaoth, tarsonisocelot, DemonHybrid

I'm contempt if anyone wants to hammer now, Talapus is ignoring any questions directed at him.

[Regfan]

I just wrote up a big reply to Talapus and now I see that hammer has been dropped.

I was going to say tarsonis looks very bad for that vote, too. I hadn't followed Hiraki's reasoning initially but it's a good point, regardless of Talapus's flip I want to look at tarsonis tomorrow because that vote was flimsy.

There's no hammer yet, he's at L-1. Post the 'big reply'.

PEdit: I've asked you for games that you've played offsite.

[Regfan]

The playstyle here is really different.

Regardless what you flip here I recommend you go play some games in the Newbie queue before you sign up for alternate games.

[Regfan]

Witholding my thoughts for now, until I've had a proper re-read at least. I want everyone to state their thoughts on mass-claiming role-wise now as well. Given the one death I'm fairly sure this is one scum team only meaning that outing our power roles may allow us to organise them in an optimal fashion.

Secondly, we're mass-band name claim. We should have done it yesterday and I thought it out overnight, it's needed. I'll start and we can popcorn it from there. ie. The person who name-claims picks the next person to name claim.

I'm Radiohead and my main performance is Knives Out. DemonHybrid, you're next.

[Regfan]

We're not fullyclaiming Pine, just band-claiming Pine. I'm more interested in peoples reasoning behind who they choose to popcorn claim than their claims to be honest.

[Regfan]

I'll bandclaim, but not song claim. Remember, it's the song that's connected to the role, not the band name. I'm seeing this whole thing as a very clumsy rolefishing attempt from you.

I am Three Doors Down.

Incorrect. Everyone has a main performance. PR's have an encore performance on top of that, thus everyone can safely claim their band-name and main performance safely. And please stick to the popcorn system, don't claim out of turn.

[Regfan]

Spoiler: Day One, Page 9-13

Post #225 by Evilpacman18 - I'm curious as to why you didn't check if this was to my scum/town meta? It's neither actually, trying a new playstyle so I can follow when and why my FoS's change.
Post #227 by Nicodemus - Link to the game where you believed Pine played similarly to this please? He's not playing to the scum meta that I know of him.
Post #233 by Gaoth - As much as I hate to admit it, Gaoth is probably town. I don't see him claiming a band that's not orginally from the 00's as scum, especially when attention was towards him.
Post #236 by Gaoth - Uh. Yeah Gaoth is town, he wouldn't have stated that he didn't instant look up his band as scum.
Post #250 by Gorilla - Ugh. Again questioning my day one reads, not the sort of comment I've ever seen from Town-gorilla.
Post #305 by Gorilla - Need to read this when I'm not so tired, but this seems opportunistic.

Spoiler: Reasoning behind Pine being town

Diddin, sorry I thought I had explained the Pine town-read.
1. He's playing the opposite to how I've seen him play scum in the past.
2. Although I can admit he has done some questionable plays, his overall demeanor is of geninue scumhunting.
3. His defence of C-Worl reads as legitimate, I don't think Pinescum would defend C-Worltown and I don't see them as scum together leaving Pine to be town.
4. The fact he openely stated he wanted to discuss or was waiting for something from the mod reads as a town-tell, mafia very rarely admit to having side-discussions with the mod because they later become forced to out what it was about.
5. The fact he believed that your main performance song led towards if you were a town-power role or not, mafia would have had to have one power-role between them thus knowing that power roles are an encore song, not the main performance.

Spoiler: Day Two, Page 14-16

Post #334 by Pine - No it doesn't, you're saying there was no scum kill which I highly doubt.
Post #342 by Chesskid - Liking the defence of Tarson to be honest. People are jumping on him without considering other options.
Post #344 by Nintendo - How do you not realize the irony here? You're sheeping a lynch on someone because they sheeped the previous lynch.
Post #345 by Diddin - I can agree with this.
Post #350 by Gorilla [/B] - As much as I can understand this vote coming from you, surely you realize the harm that such a quick wagon puts on the town this early into a day.
Post #353 by Chesskid - Link to the game please?
Post #359 by Pine - As stated earlier, this reads as a town-slip.
Post #365 by DemonHybrid - Confusion over what's going on reads as a slight town-tell, scum are likely have discussed this scenario at some point last night.
Post #370 by Tarsonicelt - DemonHybrid has already gone into this. The biggest town-tell in this post is the fact that Tarsonisoclet is claiming a fairly unknown song. Sure he may have claimed 'An unknowish band so he couldn't be counter claimed' by what reasoning would their be for not picking their main song "Ain't no rest for the wicked" if he was faking?
Post #372 by DemonHybrid - Townpoints for him for pointing out the above logic.
Post #386 by Tarsoncielt - Oddly enough I agree with a lot of this.

Tarsoncielt, explain what part of name claiming is "bad".
C-Worl, you said that you attained results by watching what occured early on in day one, I want those results now.
Scumhunter, expecting some legitimate reads and reasons from you very soon.

Spoiler: Claims so far

Gaoth: Muse - Knights of Cydonia
Regfan: Radiohead - Knives Out
Pine: Three Doors Down - Be Like That
DemonHybrid: Green Day - 21 Guns
Scumhunter: Queens of the Stone Age - ?
Tarsoniocelt: Cage the Elephant - Free Love
Parabollocks: Avenged Sevenfold - "Blinded in chains
C-Worl: Audioslave - Doesn't Remind Me
Nintendo: Blink 182 - Roller Coaster
Chesskid: Eninem - ?

Players still to claim: Nicodemus, Diddin, evilpacman18, Chesskids Song, Scumhunters Song.

Town (From strongest to weakest):

Chesskid, Pine, Diddin, Tarsonisocelot, Goath, C-Worl, Evilpacman18, DemonHybrid.

Null:

Parabollocks, Scumhunter.

Scum (From strongest to weakest):

Nicodemus, Nintendo, Gorilla.

Vote: Nicodemus

[Regfan]

wait Regfan why does post #250 seem scummy to you now but yesterday it wasn't worth mentioning and you even sheeped me shortly afterwards

Near the end of yesterday I was time-challenged as I believe I stated that I didn't read too deeply into peoples posts that I had town-reads on, recently I attained a lot more spare time thus I did an entire read through and #250 reads as incredibly off from how I've seen you play.

hy is nicodemus your strongest scum read? because he...disagrees with you about Pine's scum meta? You're actually worrying me here because normally I expect you to be basing your reads on logic and most of what you've been posting is fairly weak, and the nicodemus vote looks like picking on a random lurker.

He's not 'some random lurker', he's quite an experienced player ie. He's in Team Mafia. His disagreement with Pines meta isn't why I suspect him at all, I suspect him due to his extreme avoidance over discussing relevant issues. He never once commented on Nintendos allignment when attention was revolving around him. The extent of his shared thoughts include a scum-read on Pine which he never attempted to push and a town-read on Chess/Gaoth/Evil which he never attempted to explain.

[Regfan]

he has 4 posts and hasn't posted on day 2. you're really stretching with that case

1. Numbers of posts has nothing to do with content involved in them, four posts or twenty he hasn't addressed any major issues in his posts nor has he shown intent to.

2. He has indeed posted far more in [Redacted], it's not as if he hasn't been online throughout day two, he just feels safe enough to lurk and voting him changes that.

[Regfan]

Page 16-19

Post #396 by Parabollocks - Mafia generally avoid locking themselves in with 'unchangable town-reads' as it severely reduces the msylynh pool thus this is a town-tell. The reasoning you provide for it in your next post however is extremely poor. Can you explain your town-reads individually please.
Post #401 by Scumhunter - Calling someone town isn't a slip. You know this really well.

I've said it before, saying it again I want serious reads from you.

C-Worl, stop fluff posting and answer the question I directed towards you - What did you gain from the occurances of day one?

Post #446 by Gaoth - Can you explain Nico-Town and Diddin-Scum in more depth please, the rest I can understand to some extent.
Post #447 by Pine - He changed his day one reads, that's not a contradiction nor is it a scum-tell.
Post #465 by Diddin - I can agree pressure votes lose their value if you state that they're a pressure-vote however I don't see how Para doing so is a scum-tell.
Post #466 by Scumhunter - No. You better be joking here, him stating he believes you're town is nowhere near valid enough reasoning for believing he's mafia, if you believe that's the case you'd be voting and pushing on DH.

I don't exactly agree with Post #471 by Evilpacman18, there's several flaws in it:

#0 - Coming into the game late isn't exactly a scum-tell nor is having similar reads to other people. Put yourself in her shoes for a second, can you understand those reads coming from town-Taron? Yes. Can, you understand them coming from scum-taron? Yes. Therefore it's a null-tell.
#1 - Not a blatant lie. She reviewed his early conclusion and realized it was incorrect.
#2 - Calling someone a "them" isn't a scum-tell.
#3 - The only thing about this that I agree with is that her being adamant that one of Pine/C-Worl are scum reads as overconfident.
#4, #5 - Factual information is a null-tell, there's town and scum motivation behind doing so.
#6 - Interesting, I'll re-read into this post later when I have time but first thought is that it's a null-tell.
#8 - This is a good point.

Tarson, I want your thoughts on ALL players in the game if that's not too much to ask

All up the case is weak, it revolves around you going into t he anaylsis already believing that Taron is mafia rather than judging her posts objectively. I'm interested in you explanding on your thoughts on Scumhunter and Nicodemus though.

[Regfan]

Pine and Diddin you're both town, stop tunneling each other and start looking elsewhere.

I need to take a better look at Nintendos posts but [Redacted] is making me feel uneasy about him.

[Regfan]

Explain your diddin Town-read.

1) Scum are less likely to forget about the game which he did here.
2) This post reads as a town-tell, scum are less likely to call a townie that has just been lynched 'obvscum'.
3) Annoyance that one of his town-reads is acting retarded here and here reads as geninue.
4) At this point in the game there were so many 'easy wagons' to jump on yet he votes Para here someone that no one has really stated suspicion on, I see no real scum motivation from doing so.
5) As he showed himself here he plays very differently as scum.

[Regfan]

1) This is a somewhat valid point, but hardly clears him.
2) BULLSHIT. This post reeks of feigning confidence just before being proven wrong. I've employed this tactic with some success as scum.
3) All it reads as is remaining true to his story. This is where you fall prey to confirmation bias.
4) Of course there is scum motivation. Jumping onto an easy wagon is actually VERY scummy, and early-game wagons get analyzed all to hell in the mid- to late-game. Avoiding them is actually a smart scum move.

1) Never stated that it 'clears' him just that it's a town-tell.
2) Mind providing the link to the game where you employed the tactic?
3) I can agree that I may be falling prey to confirmation-bias in regards to this point.
4) Jumping on THE easy wagon is indeed scummy, the thing is there are MULTIPLE easy wagons meaning scum have multiple places to vote without appearing scummy yet still pushing a lynch.

Regfan you are wrong about diddin. You being wrong = you being scum usually.

Alright, enough pussy-footing around, I don't want another repeat of our last game where we attacked each other when we both had town-reads on each other. I'm fairly confident you're town, infact I believe I even know your exact role. So if you honestly believe I'm scum put forward a case otherwise

I want reads from you in your next post.

[Regfan]

What I am saying about Nico is that the only time he is interested and fully participates in a game is when he is 1) Scum or 2) a PR. To me, his lack of posting on D1 and no posting so far on D2 to me proves he is neither of these things, and is just a super bored townie.

I decided to look into this, so I ISO'ed his posts in all of his other games apart from 90's mafia and attained the following results:

1. Mini 1050 - VT - Copious amounts of content.
2. Mafia 113 - Scum - Decent amount of content.
3. Stars Alligned II - Cultist - Fluff posting.
4. Mafia 107 - BG - Large amounts of content.
5. Pledge of Allegiance - VT - Decent amount of content.
6. Open 209 - Mafia - Decent amount of content.
7. Teleportation Mafia - VT - Large amounts of activity.
8. Newbie 889 - VT - Copious amounts of content.
9. Newbie 882 - VT - Copious amounts of content.
10. Mini 950 - Mafia - Decent amount of content.

This really says that his amount of posts have no real indication to his role or allignment. Your thoughts on this Gaoth?

[Regfan]

I don't exactly agree with Post #471 by Evilpacman18, there's several flaws in it:

#0 - Coming into the game late isn't exactly a scum-tell nor is having similar reads to other people. Put yourself in her shoes for a second, can you understand those reads coming from town-Taron? Yes. Can, you understand them coming from scum-taron? Yes. Therefore it's a null-tell.
#1 - Not a blatant lie. She reviewed his early conclusion and realized it was incorrect.
#2 - Calling someone a "them" isn't a scum-tell.
#3 - The only thing about this that I agree with is that her being adamant that one of Pine/C-Worl are scum reads as overconfident.
#4, #5 - Factual information is a null-tell, there's town and scum motivation behind doing so.
#6 - Interesting, I'll re-read into this post later when I have time but first thought is that it's a null-tell.
#8 - This is a good point.

Tarson, I want your thoughts on ALL players in the game if that's not too much to ask

All up the case is weak, it revolves around you going into t he anaylsis already believing that Taron is mafia rather than judging her posts objectively. I'm interested in you explanding on your thoughts on Scumhunter and Nicodemus though.

So can we lynch tarson today and then I give my Pine case tomorrow and we lynch him tomorrow or should I just drop it all now? It'd be made stronger by tarson flipping scum though it doesn't require it.

Unvote, Vote: EPM

You've avoided addressing the colossal amount of flaws in your case on Tarson as well as refrained from questioning why certain players have town-reads on the player you suspect the most yet you continue to push it.

[Regfan]

While I understand where you are coming from, even your analysis shows that when he is mafia, he still posts with greater consistency than he is in this game. Also, many of the games you ISOd are his really early games. Look at some his most recent games, particularly recent games where he flipped Scum. Completely different Nico. He's an experienced player. I'm positive he wouldn't be lurking to this extent if he was scum. Also, how many games is he in right now? Wouldn't you put a game where you are a VT on the back burner during early game if you had more involved games to deal with?

A vote for Nico at this point is a waste, since he hasn't done anything outside of lurking thats scum worthy. I don't get why you are pushing this so hard when there are scummier choices on the board. Hell, Pine thinks I'm scummier than Nico. I was his partner in the 90's game, and early on he was bussing me for reaction and he was very eager and excited in the quick topic. This is not the same Nico.

He's in one other game at the moment only, and he hasn't posted in that game for three days I believe, his absence isn't a town-tell in any right. I understand that you believe he would be posting more and more eager as scum but it's entirely possible that he's realized that he's viewed as town via not posting often. For example he hasn't posted once you stated lack of activity from him is a town-tell.

Regardless, I'm comfortable lynching EPM at the moment I see no town-motivation for pushing a case that's been proven as incorrect while not even attempting to restate why my thoughts on it are invalid.

[Regfan]

Nicodemus: Well, not much content, but I'm getting a bored VT read from this slot.

What do you use to differentiate between bored/lazy mafia and bored/lazy VT?

Regfan:
1: In his first post, he suggests band claiming, though, I think he just misunderstood the rule he was referring to. Although, this makes me think his band wasn't formed until '00 or later. You had to go and mess this up, though, in ISO #8. You say that claiming less than a day into the game is idiotic.

2: But the analysis of Talapus, who flipped Town, makes you look bad.

1. There's a difference between name/band claiming and role claiming.
2. Do you disagree with the anaysis on Talapus? Yes/No?

#0: I can see any posts coming from town and scum if I try hard enough. It's about what it seems more likely to come from.
#1: Where?
#3: I won't accept that I'm wrong here until Pine has been killed. It's one of the biggest things about my case on him.

0: If you can read their post from a town perspective and understand where they're coming from then it's not a scum-tell.
1: You quoted it yourself "Then I realised that you were probably better than to do something so obvious as scumbuddies and revised my read accordingly." which shows re-analysis and a change of opinion.
3: I don't understand. Tarson suspected that one of C-Worl/Pine were scum strongly, you believe Pine is scum strongly, so how is this a scum-tell for Tarson?

[Regfan]

I think generally someone as mafia would likely be at least active beyond five posts.

As much as I can understand where you're coming from here it's wrong, there are multiple players that lurk to no end as scum. Nobody Special comes to mind as a prime example.

[Regfan]

Yet, that does not eliminate the possibility that Nico slot is Town.

I'm not stating that it does, I'm stating lurking is not an indication of someone being town.

[Regfan]

Neither is being active.

You're missing the point completly. You're stating you lean town on him due to lack of activity while also stating that activity isn't allignment related. In other words, you just admitted to contradicting yourself and won my vote.

Unvote, Vote: Nintendo

[Regfan]

Can you be any stupider?

There are players that lurk as scum, there are players that lurk as town therefore lurking isn't a scum-tell or a town-tell. Lurking is a null-tell.

[Regfan]

Evilpacman, I suggest you read through the last page to attain the context then.

[Regfan]

Just read this from top to bottom.

Nicodemus: Well, not much content, but I'm getting a bored VT read from this slot.

What do you use to differentiate between bored/lazy mafia and bored/lazy VT?

I think generally someone as mafia would likely be at least active beyond five posts.

As much as I can understand where you're coming from here it's wrong, there are multiple players that lurk to no end as scum. Nobody Special comes to mind as a prime example.

Yet, that does not eliminate the possibility that Nico slot is Town.

I'm not stating that it does, I'm stating lurking is not an indication of someone being town.

Neither is being active.

You're missing the point completly. You're stating you lean town on him due to lack of activity while also stating that activity isn't allignment related. In other words, you just admitted to contradicting yourself and won my vote.

So, lurking doesn't mean someone is scum, but it doesn't mean they are Town?
Wow, who's contradicting here?

[Regfan]

No, I am saying two things, not one thing because of another thing. I am saying:

1. He hasn't posted much content.
2. I am getting a Town read.

2 is not because of 1.

You stated 2. was because you were reading him as a bored VT (1) , if that's not the reasoning for you vieweing him as town then what is?

[Regfan]

Blink-182 and the song is Roller Coaster. I don't have an Encore song.

This is a VT claim.

See the bolded word for emphasis. They are two separate points. And it has to do with my role.

This is stating you're not a VT.

Hi scum.

[Regfan]

Scumhunter, stop fucking trolling for once and learn to read.

[Regfan]

Thanks for replacing into one of my scumreads Magua.

Nintendo, any explanation or do you just want to self-vote?

[Regfan]

Unvote

Sweet lets focus on the other ones now.

[Regfan]

There's plenty to work with at the moment Magua, Nintendo was wagoned on D1 and the wagon jumped of him REALLY quickly the second he claimed VT, lets have a chance to anaylse that before we lynch Nintendo.

[Regfan]

magua you just got confrmed as town, also hi

This is true, this also means I can now lurk and let Magua take over.

[Regfan]

In this post.

Funnily enough, this post also clears gorilla, the claimed due to the pressure and scare of his lynch when gorilla placed a vote down.

[Regfan]

Question:

Are we not lynching NA tonight? Or are we just gathering more info, and then lynching him?

From what I can tell he's a stalker thus needs to be lynched today, I just rather gather some more information first.

[Regfan]

Nintendo ISO #2 - Nintendo tells Pine "Just calling yourself Town doesn't make it so, fyi.", wouldn't say that to his partner that early into the game. Pines town though I don't really need more proof to know that.

Gaoth ISO #9 He states "Decided to check on the "history" of Blink 182, aka wikipedia searched them...seems they were formed in the 90's and got popular in the latter half of that decade." Don't see him bringing this up against his partner. Gaoth is likely town.

Confirmed Town:

Magua

Town - Due to interactions:

Gorilla, Pine, Gaoth

Town - Alternate town-reads

: Diddin, Chesskid, Scumhunter

Confirmed Scum:

NintendoAddict1

Leaves:

Parabollocks, Demonhybrid, evilpacman18, c-worl, tarson.

Leaning towards scum being somewhere in C-Worl/EPM. Going to do a bit more reading into it, Magua, you are going to do a full re-read, right?

[Regfan]

Diddin, don't bother with Scumhunter.

Funfact: Evilpacman never mentioned, voted or addressed Nintendo until he scum-claimed.

[Regfan]

Diddin, don't bother with Scumhunter.

Funfact: Evilpacman never mentioned, voted or addressed Nintendo until he scum-claimed.

Funfact: Neither did Nico slot.

Well, that near confirms EPM as scum, if EPM was town Nintendo wouldn't care that there's odd interaction between them as it would lead towards a msylnch, his attempt to compare EMP with a town player is just to have us doubt EPM's interaction with him.

[Regfan]

Yeah, I'm comfortable to lynch now.

Vote: Nintendo

[Regfan]

Final reads for today.

Town (From strongest to weakest):

Magua, Gorilla, Pine, Diddin, Gaoth, Scumhunter, Chesskid, Parabollocks.

Null:

Tarsonisocelot, DemonHybrid.

Scum (From strongest to weakest):

Nintendo, Evilpacman18, C-Worl

[Regfan]

Is there anything we can get out of the rest of the day now or should someone hammer?

You can state your thoughts an alternate reads otherwise a hammer is quite fine.

[Regfan]

We lynch from this pool (evilpacman18, Parabollocks, tarsonisoceot, Demonhybrid, C-worl), if anyone has any information clearance of confirmation wise about more than one person in this pool they should claim instantly.

Magua, time for you to read the whole thread, I'll wait for you to finish.

[Regfan]

I'm failing to understand why mafia killed a claimed vanilla when there is most certaintly strong power-roles in the game.

[Regfan]

I approve of killing EPM, thus prolonging my not having to do anything.

If you really don't want to read the entire game can you at least ISO C-Worl, DH and EPM and then state your thoughts from them?

[Regfan]

I used my action today. You all will be seeing Pine again very soon. I claim 1-shot vanilla reviver. My encore song is "Jesus." I can revive during the day or at night.

Jesus from Brand New? That's genius. Well, we essentially have three complete clears now; Diddin, Pine and Magua.

[Regfan]

Scumhunter, no more trolling please for the love of god re-read the game and come back with some legitimate reads.

Welcome back Pine.

[Regfan]

Pine, you had better scumhunt your ass off today.

Also, this doesn't clear diddin. I hope that's clear.

Yes it does.

Mafia gain nothing in shooting at a claimed VT just to revive them, they would be much better of shooting elsewhere either hitting a PR and not reviving them or hitting a VT reviving them and knowing more people alives roles.

[Regfan]

Two comments: How is Magua cleared? Magua, my read of C-Worl is indeed likely to be much more accurate than yours. I still want to hear your thoughts.

Lol. Nintendo admitted that he role-checked Magua N1 and got VT.

[Regfan]

I'm sorry, MAFIA ROLECOP tells you something and you believed it?

Mafia rolecop told us he was mafia, fairly sure it's safe to say that he's not an experienced enough scum play to 'wifom' about who he checked or not, also read the interaction between him and Magua in twilight, it makes it obvious they're not partners.

[Regfan]

So you're saying. Scumnintendo decided hmm. I'm FoS'ed I"LL CLAIM MAFIA JUST TO WIFOM WHO MY PARTNER IS BY STATING I ROLECOPPED SOMEONE.

Look, we're not lynching Magua, that's that now start scumhunting.

[Regfan]

Vote: EPM

You can only use one power a night.

[Regfan]

This seriously *is* easy mode.

Though I should go into it more.

1) People stated throughout yesterday that Pines interactions with Nintendo made them unlikely to buddied, people also stated where good vig-shots are one of them being C-Worl, therefore if you believed that C-Worl was mafia and people were stating he should be vig-shot there's no reasoning to have shot Pine.

2) I believe you said earlier that you don't believe that Pine/C-Worl were partners together, therefore why vig one and rb the other? Isn't that counter-productiv.

3) Why would you not have used your rolecop ability when you know full well that there's suspicion cast against you therefore you need as much information as possible.

4) As I just said you can only use one power at a time, otherwise you could vig, rb and rolecop night one and break the setup.

[Regfan]

1. Pine's been on town lists all over the place. Obviously I take what other people say with a grain of salt.
2. If you'll take a look at my most recent scumlist I had Pine on there along with a selection of one the 4 impossible to read anti-town players. Chesskid is obvtown, Scumhunter is a claimed Town PR, and Nico slot was confirmed town, albeit by scum so not really.
3. Because when Pine flipped scum it was supposed to clear me. Obviously that backfired.
4. Where in the rules does it say this?

1. You take what people say with a grain of salt? Fair enough, however his interactions with Nintendo doesn't have to do with what people said, you can look it up yourself and see that it's unlikely for him to be scum.
2. K.
3. K. You suspected him strongly D1, why not vig him N1? Also, what's your reasoning behind not using your rolecop then either/
4. Waiting on Slaxx in regards to this but I have NEVER seen a mod allow a player to use more than one ability a night.

[Regfan]

I wouldn't get vigged because I wasn't that scummy.

You expected a vig to be in the game when you had a one-shot vig yourself?

[Regfan]

Actually

Unvote

, still think he's scum just don't want a possible self-hammer to occur before everyone posts today.

[Regfan]

But I don't see anything else of use coming out of this day. If you want to ask questions like, "Who's EPM's partner?" or whatnot, go ahead, but I'd recommend being more direct about it. Otherwise, no one's really got any incentive to do anything since EPM's going to get lynched anyways.

This is where I disagree, we still have two players that haven't said a single word today due to the fact it's only just started, it's entirely possible they have a guilty or confirm thus I see no reasoning behind hammering before everyone gets a chance to post.

[Regfan]

Chesskid, could you be any more stupid?

Vote: DemonHybrid

This is a good lynch. Going to do some re-reading later.

[Regfan]

Magua, do you think mass-claim might be optimal now?

[Regfan]

Definitely not. Scum don't have a rolecop. Make them take the risk between going for the confirmed innocent VTs and trying to shoot for a powerrole.

They do have a rolecop and a roleblocker.

Both are dead.

[Regfan]

Shall I refrase, the mafia already have strong power-roles dead therefore there's a good chance that we have a protective role allowing our investigative roles another guarenteed night if they claim and reveal results.

[Regfan]

1. You laughed at gorilla for suspecting me during day two saying that I'm obv-town, is the fact that I led on mafia really something that turns an obv-town read around, seriously?

2. Magua was clear, why would you check him N3?

3. How come you've failed to eliminate Diddin and Pine from the lynch pool, they're both clear as well.

[Regfan]

As "obvtown" as Regfan was coming out of nintendo's lynch, 1. nintendo ultimately went down because of his fakeclaim, and 2. there weren't any other flips on the table other than Hiraki and Talapus.

I just wanted to check if the most vocal behind the lynch was town before he could use the lynch to build a defense if he was scum.

So instead of uh, you know checking someone that might actually be scum, you check your biggest town-read. That makes sense.

How is Magua clear? And diddin is FAR from clear. Just because he has an ability that revives vanilla townies (and therefore would be REALLY EASY to clear him to town) doesn't make him confirmed town. You're a novice player if you believe that someone with a power like that is always town; there are roles that mods throw in to create WIFOM and lead people off. Godfather is one. Miller is another. If those exist, then diddin's role could be the same, correct?

Nintendos slip cleared Magua, he openely stated to his mafia partners that he copped Magua and found him as VT. Diddin is clear, there's already a two-shot cop and a RB on the scum-team how much power do you expect them to have, seriously?

[Regfan]

This is frustrating.

Now I have to decide if DH has played the worst cop game in the history of mafia, or his fake-claim is just this bad.

[Regfan]

And you think that this clears Magua?

You're insulting nintendo. He isn't that fucking dumb.

You have an innocent on Magua, so yes even you should think he is.

[Regfan]

Yeah, I'm not going to bother arguing, if you're town you really have played an incredibly shit game. I'm going to do some re-reading, Magua this is yours to drive.

[Regfan]

"Oh hey, an outed scum said plainly in the game thread that someone is a VT, and then flipped a scum rolecop! Yeah, that flipped scum is telling the truth!"

If you read it in context it's incredibly obvious that he did it to give his partners information not to wifom, on top of that Magua pushed strongly on EPM who also flipped scum, there literally is zilch reasoning for checking him last night.

""Oh hey, instead of investigating someone who has been vocal behind a scum lynch and might be carefully calculating a bus, investigate someone who is bound to get lynched! That way, you can sit back and watch a confirmed innocent get lynched OR out your role! Sounds good to me!"

Doesn't that sound dumb? Because it's you.

You stated you believed I was obvtown, the fact that there's a small chance I might be calculated bussing shouldn't make it optimal to check me, and no there's no way you would stand back and watch your confirmed innocent get lynched as you could easily claim and outting your role isn't that bad. There's multiple players in the pool of [Not obv town] and [Not getting lynched] which would have been good checks.

[Regfan]

A cops job is not to check the players that everyone reads as town, it's to check players that they believe everyone has no read on. When this game ends I suggest making a topic in the mafia discussion threads asking if you believe your checks were optimal or not, I'm sure you'll be told then.

[Regfan]

@Regfan: You obviously don't get the fucking point. Maybe if you go read a few games where "obvtown" players end up being scum, then you'd change your mind. I can link a few for you right now.

So let me get this right.

Because in the past there have been players that have been read incorrectly it's best to doubt your reads and use your cop check to make sure of them, rather than checking someone you know nothing about?

PEdit: Alright, lets assume you're right and in 10% of the games the person obvtown is scum, your check would help town 10% of the time, the other 90% of the time it's a useless check.

[Regfan]

A player is dangerous if he is scum and is viewed as obvtown by EVERYONE, but not confirmed.

I can agree that a player viewed as obvtown by everyone and is actually scum can be dangerous that's when you have to make a decision, re-read his posts, look at the information they have put foward evaluate what likelyhood you believe there is that he did indeed buss or not. You claim to have done all of this and believe I was town at the end of it yet still check me, that's the bit I can not understand.

And it's not even CLOSE to 10%. This happens ALL THE TIME. I personally pulled up 1/4 of the games that I lost (I have a 40% win rate). There are a ton of games, with doing some browsing, which I'm not going to do just to drive a point home that you should have understood a while ago, that can be found that have the same scenario. Someone looks obvtown from the start, or someone becomes obvtown near the end and they end up just being an awesome scum player.

Again, that's when you count on your reads, you reasses them. You could also check up their meta and you would have found I'm not a strong scum player.

The ones that people know nothing about, or don't have any feelings about WILL BE TRIALED. They will be questioned. And if they become obvtown to EVERYONE, they should be checked too.

Not many players have been questioned or trialled, you certaintly haven't trialled anyone yourself, if you have then state your reads on the remaining players.

Yes, technically there's a less chance to catch scum by a little bit, but it's by FAR more important if you do catch them.

This comes back to; Town believe X is Town. You check X because there's a small chance he's good scum. You find out X is indeed Town, you have no new information to offer Town.

[Regfan]

At least understand where the fuck I'm coming from instead of putting me down as a bad player. I like you, Regfan, but I'm fucking sick and tired of the elitist attitude from everyone on this site and you have to agree that I have a POINT, even if you don't agree with it.

I haven't stated that you're a bad player, I've observed previous games of yours and indeed do think you've performed well in them I just cannot understand the logic you're attempting to put forward to defend your checks.

[Regfan]

Regfan. Who cares? We have this game well in hand...There are better ways to get your point across. I would have probably checked you n1 if I were cop. I doubt I would have ever checked Magua, but whatever. Moving on...who is mafia?

>Mfw Regfan godfather

I care, I need to understand where he's coming from if I'm going to get a proper read on him, and you wouldn't have checked me N2 Scumhunter.

Magua, I want mass-claim so bad.

[Regfan]

Food for thought, what if mafia have daytalk and nintendo gave his partners the real rolecop in there and just tried to "clear" his partner Magua by claiming he is VT in thread.

1) There's a clear on Magua
2) Magua is obvtown without the clear or the comment by Nintendo
3) If there was daytalk Nintendo wouldn't have claimed mafia, he would have stalled until he got advice in the day-talk

[Regfan]

Magua, there's only 6 unclaimed players in the game, with only 3 powerrole claims already occured being DH (Cop), Chesskid (Miller) and Didding (1-Shot Reviver). I'm willing to bed that there's more than 4 power-roles in a 16 player game therefore if you believe DH (Cop) and Chesskid (Miller) are mafia we only have one claimed power-role with there being, multiple multiple in the below list, therefore if we don't get multiple claims in the below list I'm fairly sure it's safe to say that DH and CK are town. If we do get multiple claims in the below list and DH is town than we've locked mafia into a PR claim which is optimal for us.

Unclaimed players are:

1. tarsonisocelot
2. Gaoth
3. C-Worl
4. Scumhunter
5. Gorilla
6. Regfan

[Regfan]

I say we lynch Regfan, whose activity thus far suggests he's scum. If he flips GF, excellent. If he flips non-GF scum, DH is caught. If he flips Town, DH is semi-confirmed.

So. Lets just get this right you want to: 1) Lynch your previous town-read 2) Lynch the cop clear 3) Lynch the player who led on 2 scum because....he's active?

Remind me not to join a game with you after this one Pine.

[Regfan]

Seriously, grow up, put on your fucking big boy pants, and accept the support. You have 4 confirmed town in this game now. I'm NOT here to find out innocents on people who are getting lynched the day after and be an ineffective cop.

Look, I'm not going to continue discussing this create a thread in MD after the game attain peoples opinions then, for now what's your thoughts on mass-claiming?

[Regfan]

Bad, at least until I die. If there's a protective role, I don't want it outed.

If you're legit mass-claim should prove so due to the lack of power-role counterclaims and if there is a protective role you would be guarenteed one more investigation which is all that should be needed to win.

[Regfan]

Why not WAIT? If I don't die, I get more investigations. If I die, it's proven. It's a win-sorta win. Why do we need to out any other potential PRs

And just in case you ARE a godfather, or chesskid has balls and IS mafia (which I really highly doubt), or Pine came back as something DIFFERENT (again, I highly doubt it), I'd rather get as many investigations as possible.

Becuase right now, I don't think Magua is going to change his vote of you without it. Also, the fact that mafia have a 2-shot rolecop means that there's a big likelyhood that town have multiple power-roles which means a MC can GG it right now.

[Regfan]

When the HELL have I expressed a Town read on you, Regfan? I just did a full scan of my ISO, and I can't find it. I've only ever expressed null or scum reads on you, and until DH showed up and "cleared" you, you were at the top of many people's list. That reactionary reply makes me think I've hit a nerve.

If you never stated you had a town-read on me than my apologies I just remembered it differently, the only persons lynch list I was on was C-Worl and Chesskid, Scumhunter was just trolling.

Pine, explain to me what scum-motivation there is to bussing a rolecop and a roleblocker to just hit claimed VTs.

[Regfan]

Survival

Survival would infer that I was at risk of getting lynched early, which I was not.

[Regfan]

This is honestly getting stupid, we have enough clears that we should be able to end this in the next day or two. I'm putting my foot down, you can lynch me after its done for all I care.

We're massclaiming

I no longer care what Magua thinks about it, it is indeed optimal. Heck, I"ll even claim first.

I'm a VT.

Spoiler: Current claims:

1. Chesskid3 - Miller
2. Magua - VT
3. Diddin - 1-Shot VT Reviver
4. Demonhybrid - Cop
5. Pine - VT
6. Regfan - VT

That leaves the Unclaimed players to be: Gaoth, Gorilla, C-worl, tarsonisocelot and Scumhunter.

Claim order is going to be:

1. Tarson.
2. Gorilla.
3. Gaoth.
4. C-Worl.
5. Scumhunter.

[Regfan]

Magua, we have 6 guarenteed VT claims already, 3 dead, 3 alive therefore scum are unable to pile on the VT claims meaning they'll all have to fakeclaim giving us copious amounts of information and locking them into a claim that will prove damaging.

[Regfan]

Prediction: Of the 6, we'll get two PR claims and 4 VT claims. Now what?

There's 5, but lets say there's 2 PR claims and 3 VT claims that means overall there's only 5 PR claims which means the possiblty of Chesskid+DH scum-team would be ruled out which would lead to the argument that the fact there's a miller in the game means there's a cop, which means that DH would be town.

I'm talking about being called dumb constantly in every game of mafia that I play. It wasn't a game-relevant defense. It was me being fucking angry.

You just need to work on some aspects of your cop play. I'd recommend hydraing with someone after this, certaintly don't give up you have the ability to be a great player.

[Regfan]

No. What will convince me of DH being cop is a flip that says, "DemonHybrid, Town Cop, has died"

If you're that confident that he's mafia then you believe that at least 3 of the 5 unclaimed players are PR, at least one of them should have information to reveal by claiming and we can organise them. There's minimal loses and a lot to gain from mass-claiming and it's already been started, so please trust that I know what I'm doing and allow it to continue.

[Regfan]

lol lets not mass claim imo. Regfan. too many people and too much uncertainty in who is ACTUALLY clear to make it effective imo.

The positives behind it are massive. We can literally provide an automatic way to win the game if we do so. There shouldn't uncertaintly over who's town or not. Magua, Pine and Didin are town, end of. We can PoE this, we have three mslynches and a lylo lynch. 4 lynches to lynch scum out of a pool of 7.

Yeah... That's my post and frustrating as well.

[Regfan]

No one said anything about following the cop and mass-claim doesn't need to wait for fuck sakes we can end this shit today. If you believe I'm scum, mass-claim and I'll willingly take the lynch afterwards if you follow my directions. If you believe I'm town then actually trust me on this.

[Regfan]

Magua, the fact that chesskid claimed miller right out the gate means that there's an assumption that there's a cop in the setup meaning that DH can't claim cop with the intention of surviving merely outting the cop which would be a useless task given that there's likely a protective role.

This means without a counter-claim the only real way that DH would be scum, is if he was scum with Chesskid mass-claim either confirms or rules this out therefore if you honestly believe they're both mafia mass-claiming is needed.

[Regfan]

Who is Skyquiem? Some hydra?

Yes. Mine.

One more night. I don't want to out the actual protective role (aka not me).

Remember that conversation we were having a while back about how mass-claiming doesn't happen often enough on this site, well yeah this is one of the times its needed.

[Regfan]

Scum: tarson, one of chesskid/Scumhunter/C-Worl/Nicodemus (the fairly unreadable anti-town players), Pine, ???????? (

Gaoth/Nintendo or diddin maybe

).

Gaoth is town due to this. Diddin even more likely town.

Cleared/Confirmed Town:

Diddin, Magua, Pine

Town Reads:

Chesskid, DemonHybrid, Scumhunter, Gaoth

Scum Reads:

C-Worl, Tarson, Gorilla.

Evilpacman showed a massive avoidance of nintendo and there's a massive chance he did so to another scum partner as well, take a look how often EPM mentions C-Worl, note it's almost never.

Unvote, Vote C-Worl

I'm okay with either Tarson/Gorilla lynch as well, also we still need to mass-claim.

[Regfan]

Fuck this Pine, gloves are of.

1. You state that I'm pushing bad reads, I've led correctly on two mafia, what reads of mine are "bad"?
2. You state that I'm calling people conf town thus buddying up to them, if you believe I'm buddying them then you believe they're town.
3. You state that I believe I have a free pass, I've openely said if we mass-claim and people follow my directions I'd willingly take a lynch.

[Regfan]

Pine, lets play a little game it's called lets see how fucking shit you are at this game, we can judge it after the game.

You have a gun, you can shoot four people in this room with it, you have to shoot both scum otherwise we lose, who would you shoot. Go.

[Regfan]

Name a fourth person please so when 0/4 of those names are scum after the game you confess to being horrible.

[Regfan]

Alright, then after the game if you get 0/3 from that list will you admit to being awful?

[Regfan]

Yes Pine, very clearly striking a nerve, utter stupidity is something I find very hard to handle.

You're attempting to state you FoS:

1. The cop claim when there's no cop-counter claim and you have a town-read on the miller claim, meaning you're saying there's a miller and no cop in the setuo.
2. The guy who led on two mafia and is the cop innocent, becuase he has strong town-reads.
3. The guy who resurected you, because you think it's a scum power.

Thanks for being a breath of fresh air Gaoth. Alright, I believe the coupling of cop/doctor/miller in the setup against roleblocker/rolecop. I'm tempted to move from C-Worl to Tarson though.

[Regfan]

Spoiler: Current claims:

1. Chesskid3 - Miller
2. Magua - VT
3. Diddin - 1-Shot VT Reviver
4. Demonhybrid - Cop
5. Pine - VT
6. Regfan - VT
7. Gaoth - Doctor

People that need to claim in their next post:
1. Tarson.
2. Gorilla.
3. C-Worl.
4. Scumhunter.

And Tarson, I know you're lurking the thread because you have about 5-6 times in the past few hours I suggest you get in here and claim.

[Regfan]

1. Chesskid3 - Miller
2. Magua - VT
3. Diddin - 1-Shot VT Reviver
4. Demonhybrid - Cop
5. Pine - VT
6. Regfan - VT
7. Gaoth - Doctor
8. C-Worl - VT
9. Tarson - VT
10. Gorilla - VT
11. Scumhunter -

End this mass-claim SH.

[Regfan]

Ugh. Thinking it over at the moment. Scumhunters town without a doubt, just trying to work out what role could potentially be good to stay unclaimed. I think it's safe to say that DH is legit just due to the fact that there's no other investigative role and inclusion of RB and Rolecop only makes sense with a cop/tracker in the game, same goes for Gaoth.

People I feel comfortable never lynching: Scumhunter, Gaoth, Magua, DemonHybrid, Pine.
Players that I'm fairly confident are Town: Diddin, Chesskid

Leaving: Gorilla, Tarson, C-Worl

Lets go Gorilla before C-Worl actually.

Unvote, Vote Gorilla

[Regfan]

I actually detest players that claim VT as a power-role during mass-claim. Scumhunter, thinking about it I think we have this game won as long as everyone stays united and if you claiming means doing that then go ahead.

[Regfan]

I love it when the only thing in someone's post is a silent vote for me. Lmaoooooooo.

My role is so strange that I actually had to message Slaxx before the game just to understand the mechanics and while I've seen similar roles, I've never seen anything exactly like it. My desire to draw the night kill was mostly an attempt to troll as getting shot/lynched would be pretty bad for us tbh. I do welcome a cop check of me though.

The fact that you've openely stated that you dying is bad for us would lead to you getting shot meaning you might as well claim and make the day a lot more bearable.

[Regfan]

Pine, what reasoning would he have for refusing to claim as scum, it draws ultimate attention towards him as well as trapping him into a very specific claim region. Although he's frustrating to play with he's town. Pine, I want your reads and thoughts on Tarson/Gorilla/C-Worl.

Scumhunter, you claiming can't be so bad that we auto-lose and we have 3 msylnches surely the devastation of your role can't stop a win position such as this.

This thread really needs more Gaoth, Magua, Diddin and DemonHybrid everyone else is making me pull out my hair.

[Regfan]

Jesus christ I hate you so much Scumhunter.

[Regfan]

Everyone should agree right now that DH is town, the only pro-town PRs we have claimed are Doc/ 1-Shot Reviver and Cop, therefore at least Cop/Doc HAVE to be legitimate.

1. Today we lynch Gorilla.
2. Tonight Gaoth saves DH, DH checks C-Worl.
3. Tommorow you lynch C-Worl if he's guilty, otherwise you lynch Tarson.

This way, even if Gorilla is town and scum shoot SH only 4 townies die -> Means it goes down to 7 people being alive so there still would be a msylnch with the doctor+cop+report alive.

Edit: SH are you VT, yes or no.

[Regfan]

DH, Scumhunter is town, he picked Magua and me because we play on an alternate site with him and he enjoys trolling and pissing us of.

PLEASE
PLEASE

Don't piss me of right now.

[Regfan]

DemonHybrid and anyone else who has half a brain in this game, your vote needs to go to Gorilla today and check Tarson or C-Worl tonight your choice which. If Gorilla flips town and you get an innocent on one of them tonight I'd willingly sheep your thoughts and reads the rest of the game.

But for now, please fucking vote Gorilla.

[Regfan]

We don't need 3 townies dead from a mod-kill.

LYNCH TARSON/C-WORL/GORILLA FOR FUCK SAKES

[Regfan]

Unvote, Vote Tarson

[Regfan]

If he gets modkilled, Gaoth on DH tonight.

DH please please just check one of the the three.

[Regfan]

As much as I may detest certain players in this room and believe they are honestly terrible players I'm going to attempt to put my feelings to the side for the remainder of the game, I've put too much effort into this game to lose when we were in an auto-win position yesterday.

DemonyHybrid is the cop, he is also town, just look at the roles in the setup there has to be an investigative role or a role that roleblocker actually does something against for it to make sense. On top of that with a miller claim in the setup there would be an assumed cop meaning logically the only way DemonHybrid could be mafia is if he was mafia is if he was mafia with Chesskid and that would mean town only having three power-roles all being fairly weak. TOWN.

Magua is a VT, he is also town. I won't say the word clear because otherwise Pine will chuck a fit but read the context in which Nintendo outted Magua's role, then read Maguas interactions with EPM and to top that all the innocent on him makes him incredibly obvious town.

Diddin is a 1-shot reviver, he is also town. Think about it. There's a role in the setup that can kill 1 person with them, and then a 1-shot reviver, that makes sense to have on the town side wheras there's no scum incentive for the role, mafia gain nothing from having a VT cleared apart from that role appearing town, but why would there be a role that's only purpose is to use their power to look town in the game. Answer; there wouldn't.

Pine, VT is also town. He was revived and there makes no sense for a town player to be revived to turn scum. On top of that as aggravating as I find him he has been fairly obvious town-throught the game, his posts show signs of attempted scumhunting.

If you disagree with any of the four above I want to see detailed legitimate reasoning as to why. Moving on, that leaves:Chesskid, Gorilla, C-Worl and Tarson. Out of these four I would likely lynch them in the order Gorilla -> Tarson -> C-Worl -> Chesskid. Considering we have two msylnches we should have NO WAY of losing whatsoever if everyone agrees the top four are town.

[Regfan]

Vote: Tarson

Order changes Tarson -> Gorilla -> C-Worl -> Chesskid.

[Regfan]

You can wait of, I want to hear Magua's thoughts on the four.

[Regfan]

Regfan, you need to take a fucking chill pill. The personal attacks have moved beyond a mere irritant, especially as the basis for them is purely your butt-soreness that I might DARE suspect you. Your pettiness has now prevented me from getting into a game, producing a tangible negative effect on my enjoyment of this site.

It's actually due to the fact you refuse to acknowledge that DH and Diddin are town without providing any reasoning as to why you think they're scum. But can we just move that to the side and win this game for now and deal with it later.

[Regfan]

Yes, Chesskid isn't clear but I still have a minor-town read on him and I still want Gorilla or Tarson to get rope today. Also, I don't think the cop-check is going to matter too much given the mslynches and small suspect pool we have.

Just waiting on Pine and Diddin to post their thoughts and then I'm content to end the day.

[Regfan]

No. No. No.

We're lynching gorilla or Tarson. There's no need to deviate from the plan when we're already lined up scum.

Chesskid flipping miller changes nothing there'd still be a possible GF in the setup and we'd be done a msylnch

[Regfan]

Because if CK flips miller, we can expect no godfather and everyone that was investigated will be clear.

If CK flips godfather, we solved a shitload of problems.

If CK flips other scum, discount the fuck out of my reads and play with analysis to find the last scum. You'd be in a probable 7:1.

This isn't true at all, him flipping miller changes NOTHING in regards to there being a godfather or not in the setup. I would much rather lynch a key suspect that everyone suspects then chesskid on the wild chance he fake-claimed miller.

PLEASE, lets not fuck this up now.

[Regfan]

So DH, you want to lynch him incase he flips scum, you realize that's the exact same thing as lynching your FoS's in hope they're scum?

Yes, I saw the self-vote why would he do that there as scum.

[Regfan]

The only thing it reveals is if he's mafia or not.

That's the same fucking thing as any other lynch.

[Regfan]

Regfan seems the most likely person to be a GF.

This is an attempt to shift attention elsewhere and give them an alternate out when Chess flips miller.

Magua, disagree. She's scum. Read her post where she voted Gorilla it's essentially "I can't be scum with gorilla!"

Do you agree that chess COULD be scum fakeclaiming miller because he (low chance, as Magua stated) is the Godfather, or he is scum with his buddy as a godfather?

It really doesn't matter. Magua is town without the innocent on him, the innocent just adds that little bit on top. If Chesskid flips goon yes it means that everybody in the game is likely to appear innocent on reports but again that doesn't help us as we'd be done to that suspect pool again.

[Regfan]

Also, claiming miller as godfather is a surprisingly good play. This playerlist is competent and no competent cop would investigate someone who says they will turn up guilty regardless.

No, it's not. The entire point of the godfather is to make the cop investigations useless, meaning the godfather WANTS to get investigated therefore what would the point be of the godfather claiming miller.

[Regfan]

I honestly give up attempting to speak logically in this game. I really did try, I normally keep my patience well but this is just too much.

Sigh. Slaxx, can you message me in 24 hours if I haven't calmed down I'm likely to replace out.

[Regfan]

Slaxx isn't letting me replace out. Complete frustration right now. I'll give this one final attempt.

There's two possibilies that could occur upon lynching Chesskid:

1: Chesskid flips miller. What do we learn? Nothing at all. What do we lose? One of our msylnches.

2: Chesskid flips goon. What do we learn? That there's a godfather in the game, what does that mean? Our innocents aren't 100% clear. What does that also mean? It means that one of Magua/Regfan/C-Worl/Gorilla/Tarsons is scum. I already know Magua and myself are town without the innocents, meaning it teaches us what? That one of Tarson/Gorilla/C-Worl are scum, what we already know.

[Regfan]

Er. I agree that she can't be scum with gorilla.

Disagree. I can see Tarson being the planned town-cred considering how D1 ended (With Tarsons throwing horrible logic to her vote on Talapus)

What about the idea that gorilla's attacks this game have been on Talapus and tarsonis. Easy targets. You think that's town play for him?

No, certaintly not. I can see him as scum easily.

[Regfan]

This isn't important to you? You'd rather be in a blissful, fake world where innocents are innocents when you believe them? Have you ever read The Giver?

No, not to sound cruel at all. But I don't give two shits about your reports, any of them. Magua is town I don't need a report to prove that, it's something that was incredibly obvious before you even claimed the report on him and I don't completly buy the innocent on C-Worl (As in I can see him being GF).

Can we compromise Magua?

Unvote, Vote: Gorilla

[Regfan]

DH, I have a few questions for you. Answer yes or no to each one.

Do you believe Magua is mafia?

Do you believe I'm mafia?

Do you believe Gorilla is mafia?

Do you believe Tarson is mafia?

Do you believe Pine is mafia?

Do you believe Diddin is mafia?

Do you believe C-Worl is mafia?

[Regfan]

Do you believe Gorilla is mafia?

No if chesskid flips scum. Yes if he doesn't.

So this would work in reverse I assume. If Gorilla flips scum you wouldn't believe Chesskid is mafia and if Gorilla flips town you would believe Chesskid is mafia? Correct?

[Regfan]

And why didn't you ask me if I thought chesskid was scum? [/Quote[
The fact you're voting him makes your thoughts on him known already.

Please stop thinking about it as a logic puzzle and just identify who you think the scum are.

Amen.

PEdit: Yes DH, yes I will.

[Regfan]

I want everyone else to give me that promise too. Like, at least CONSIDER a CK lynch tomorrow. Consider it.

I promise to. Likewise if I die tonight I want you to take the following to the bank:

Magua, Diddin, Pine and DH are town no matter what.

[Regfan]

Eh. Pine didn't get to post today. Anyway, if I die tonight and anyone lynches Diddin/Pine/Magua/DH I will hunt you. Scum are still in [C-Worl, Tarson, Chesskid]

[Regfan]

Tarsonisocelot (3): Nintendoaddict1, Gorilla, evilpacman18

Scum don't pile on a town player that's likely to get lynched like this, this is town jumping on their partner they expected to get lynched for town-cred. End this today please and if by some slight chance this is wrong Chesskid tommorow and C-Worl the day after.

Vote: Tarson

Gogogogoogogo.

[Regfan]

Vote: Regfan

[Regfan]

Pine, lets make a compromise you vote tarson today so the game can end faster and if it doesn't end today you can lynch me tommorow, deal?

[Regfan]

Magua and Pine, just vote Tarson and end this god forsaken game, please.

[Regfan]

Do I *really* need to make a case on Tarsons to prove it to you because that seems like effort.

[Regfan]

Well, good game. Very well modded Slaxx and loved majority of the flavour on lynches and deaths, would be willing to join any game you host on this site. As much as Scumhunter might complain about the mod-kill I can understand how it could be viewed as fair, his self-vote led to an increased likelihood in him getting lynched which is playing against your win-condition and thank god he didn't get lynched, I'd have gone with him.

I have to apologise for some of the frustration I let out on some players in this game, I just felt that people were not playing to their proper potential. Some sections of this game were immensely frustrating while other parts extremely satisfying, mafia really needed to take a real stand at some point and try to cast more suspicion on the people considered town and not doing so really cost them. I also believe one of the scum needed to claim a power-role in the mass-claim not doing so let DH become essentially clear.

Pine, I think you need to work on your reasoning behind your FoS's in future, I think you put logic aside to follow your gut a little too much otherwise a great deal of your posts this game were good.

DH, I strongly dissaprove of your cop-play mainly because I dislike checking town-reads and it's something you need to work to move away from, with exception to that your early game play was quite amazing, you played in a manner that avoided the night kills perfectly.

Gaoth, you really kept me going in this game I was about to just replace out but your final post really forced me to reconsider and motivated me to continue playing.

[Regfan]

Is anyone willing to post the scum and dead QTs?

[Regfan]

On the other hand Magua does deserve the hate he gets.

[Regfan]

Regfan is just jelly that my mafia voting record in this game was so much better than his.

Lets just call us even, I call out the mafia you vote them?

[Regfan]

Para, you died a while back, but your play was great and you were a good kill for the mafia PR or not.

[Regfan]

I pick VT.

[Regfan]

CHESSKID was so damn protown this game, it wasn't even funny.

Yes, but lynching him confirms there's a godfather in the game so we can lynch Magua later.

Wait...

[Regfan]

GROUP HUG

You just want any excuse to fondle chesskid.

[Regfan]

Are you guys fine posting the mafia QT Tarson?