Return to Gambits (SK Win!)

[Empking]

Vote Count 4

Cobblerfone
DeityKabuto
TheJakalope
Nocmen
TheMask (1) - CryMeARiver
Monk
Surye
CryMeARiver (3) - sorasgoof, Surye, Sathoris,
jilynne1991
vezokprika
Sathoris
earworm (1) - Ironhead
C-Worl (2) - vezokprika, earworm
Wredfar
Ironhead
sorasgoof

Note Voting: DeityKabuto, TheJakalope, Nocmen, TheMask, Monk, C-Worl, Wredfar, jilynne1991, Cobblerfone

With 16 alive, its 9 to lynch.

The Cops may self-investigate.

[monk]

Oh cool, that means that the cops can figure out their sanity. gogogo this must be done. So much noise and not enough scumhunting, VOTE: wredfar

[vezokpiraka]

I was going to say we should MC. But then I thought and no I'm not going to say.

[Ironhead]

Really.

You want justified bandwagons in RVs? If I had a justification it wouldn't be a RV.

I didn't say I want justified bandwagons. I don't want bandwagons at all, because their only justification is that they are a bandwagon. If you have a reason to suspect someone is scum, then you're voting that player not because you are "jumping on the bandwagon," but because you think the player might actually be scum.

Furthermore, RVS is random only for the town. Scum know who each other are, so for them the voting is not random. Therefore, they have a little bit of leverage (in their power of numbers, even if there are only a couple of them) to direct on whom the bandwagon falls. Occasionally, we might get lucky and see a bunch of townies randomly bandwagoning a scum; but it is much more likely that we end up with a townie getting bandwagoned, and that townie is more likely to be lynched than those who voted him -- because someone,

anyone

, can discern a "scum read" in the tea leaves of his reaction. If no one else does it, one of the scum can throw that first stone -- but usually there is a useful idiot in the town to do it first.

[Surye]

I was going to say we should MC. But then I thought and no I'm not going to say.

lolwut

Really.

You want justified bandwagons in RVs? If I had a justification it wouldn't be a RV.

I didn't say I want justified bandwagons. I don't want bandwagons at all, because their only justification is that they are a bandwagon. If you have a reason to suspect someone is scum, then you're voting that player not because you are "jumping on the bandwagon," but because you think the player might actually be scum.

Furthermore, RVS is random only for the town. Scum know who each other are, so for them the voting is not random. Therefore, they have a little bit of leverage (in their power of numbers, even if there are only a couple of them) to direct on whom the bandwagon falls. Occasionally, we might get lucky and see a bunch of townies randomly bandwagoning a scum; but it is much more likely that we end up with a townie getting bandwagoned, and that townie is more likely to be lynched than those who voted him -- because someone,

anyone

, can discern a "scum read" in the tea leaves of his reaction. If no one else does it, one of the scum can throw that first stone -- but usually there is a useful idiot in the town to do it first.

Bandwagons that start page 1 rarely lead to a lynch in my experience, but they get discussion going very nicely. Establishes early voting patterns and stances against players.

Like this cool wagon on CMAR.

[sorasgoof]

I've seen people play like CMAR is right now (Parama comes to mind), and you can't use that style of play as a read either way. Just sayin'.

@TheJackalope: What's questionable about it? You say it isn't scummy, so what's wrong with it?

@vezokpiraka: I've been on the site for over a year now, and I've never seen that abbreviation. What's MC?

I approve of RVS bandwagons, for anyone following that debate. However, RVS wagons rarely (as Surye said) lead to a lynch, and experienced players don't really react to them in my experience. New players might, I guess. They do provide points of discussion, which is why RVS wagons are useful. @Ironhead: Even if someone "discerns a 'scum read'" from a reaction due to an RVS wagon, it's up to the rest of the town to discuss it. Another point in favor of RVS wagons.

tl;dr: RVS wagons are more helpful than hurtful.

[vezokpiraka]

I've seen people play like CMAR is right now (Parama comes to mind), and you can't use that style of play as a read either way. Just sayin'.

@TheJackalope: What's questionable about it? You say it isn't scummy, so what's wrong with it?

@vezokpiraka: I've been on the site for over a year now, and I've never seen that abbreviation. What's MC?

I approve of RVS bandwagons, for anyone following that debate. However, RVS wagons rarely (as Surye said) lead to a lynch, and experienced players don't really react to them in my experience. New players might, I guess. They do provide points of discussion, which is why RVS wagons are useful. @Ironhead: Even if someone "discerns a 'scum read'" from a reaction due to an RVS wagon, it's up to the rest of the town to discuss it. Another point in favor of RVS wagons.

tl;dr: RVS wagons are more helpful than hurtful.

oh lol:)
Mc is mass claim. sorry for the confusion.

[C-Worl]

We seem to be arguing scum hunting theories in this thread more than we're actually scum hunting. Mafia is an ever evolving game. As we learn the things scum do the scum learn not to do them and you'll always see townies who do those things on accident. What may have been an accurate strategy last month could be outdated this month. Therefore if people vote each other for contrasting theories (the rvs wagon for example) then the best thing is to just let them bc we can eventually learn things just by seeing how they react to each other in a one on one situation.

We're not mass claiming Vezo. Not on D1.

[CryMeARiver]

HI SORA!! Hi, jilynne. I miss the days when I'd play in a cluster of games. And HI other people who don't know me. You should cool it with the buddying, CMAR. MOD: may the cops self investigate? I don't have an RV on deck but I'm wondering why vezok hasn't claimed yet. hehehehe. I'll wait for CMAR to unvote so I don't look omgusy..... what???

Damnit! I got so caught up at the beginning of the game, I completely forgot to suggest this -__- I definitely thought of this looking at the setup pregame. Good job @TheMask.
I'm not buddying. Me saying you're being protown/have a good post is not an attempt at buddying, it's simply me saying you have a good post. That's like saying if I keep saying someone is scummy that I'm tunneling.

This game certainly got started quickly. I skimmed the thread, nothing major jumps out, I'll try to get some reads later, but CMAR, who appointed you the man who decides who is town or not? Especially when you are making these judgements from very few posts. This isn't very scummy of you, just.. questionable.

Say whaaat? I'm not appointing people town. I'm telling people what my reads are. They can take them or leave them. I will use their reaction of my reads to judge them.

I actually don't see anything wrong with CMAR, but being able to make judgements that quickly make me think one of two things: 1) he might be really good at this game or 2) he's a loudmouth who should stop making assumptions so quickly.

Probably the 2nd one At least most of the time

@Jackalope: What's your reaction to a post like this?:

Earworm seems to be a smart played, but he's still a null read at the moment for me.

I was going to say we should MC. But then I thought and no I'm not going to say.

Also thought of this after that cop idea ^ The risk outweighs the reward by far. Maybe if the BG's could save and retaliate, but since they can only save, their is no use except having the BG's/other PR's die N1.

Bandwagons that start page 1 rarely lead to a lynch in my experience, but they get discussion going very nicely. Establishes early voting patterns and stances against players.

Like this cool wagon on CMAR.

Good posting. Very true.

Going to do a quick meta check on Iron and see if this is his general opinion on bandwagons. His opinion is not scummy in the least, just different from what I generally see.

[CryMeARiver]

We seem to be arguing scum hunting theories in this thread more than we're actually scum hunting. Mafia is an ever evolving game. As we learn the things scum do the scum learn not to do them and you'll always see townies who do those things on accident. What may have been an accurate strategy last month could be outdated this month. Therefore if people vote each other for contrasting theories (the rvs wagon for example) then the best thing is to just let them bc we can eventually learn things just by seeing how they react to each other in a one on one situation.

We're not mass claiming Vezo. Not on D1.

I'm very confused at to what point the bolded served at all...

[Surye]

We seem to be arguing scum hunting theories in this thread more than we're actually scum hunting. Mafia is an ever evolving game. As we learn the things scum do the scum learn not to do them and you'll always see townies who do those things on accident. What may have been an accurate strategy last month could be outdated this month. Therefore if people vote each other for contrasting theories (the rvs wagon for example) then the best thing is to just let them bc we can eventually learn things just by seeing how they react to each other in a one on one situation.

We're not mass claiming Vezo. Not on D1.

Vezo has permanently broken my scumdar for him by being consistently and constantly scummy. Frustrating as hell.

[Surye]

We seem to be arguing scum hunting theories in this thread more than we're actually scum hunting. Mafia is an ever evolving game. As we learn the things scum do the scum learn not to do them and you'll always see townies who do those things on accident. What may have been an accurate strategy last month could be outdated this month. Therefore if people vote each other for contrasting theories (the rvs wagon for example) then the best thing is to just let them bc we can eventually learn things just by seeing how they react to each other in a one on one situation.

We're not mass claiming Vezo. Not on D1.

I'm very confused at to what point the bolded served at all...

It's pretty clearly trying to derail the current conversation as calling it pointless. Even though it's not.

[CryMeARiver]

We seem to be arguing scum hunting theories in this thread more than we're actually scum hunting. Mafia is an ever evolving game. As we learn the things scum do the scum learn not to do them and you'll always see townies who do those things on accident. What may have been an accurate strategy last month could be outdated this month. Therefore if people vote each other for contrasting theories (the rvs wagon for example) then the best thing is to just let them bc we can eventually learn things just by seeing how they react to each other in a one on one situation.

We're not mass claiming Vezo. Not on D1.

I'm very confused at to what point the bolded served at all...

It's pretty clearly trying to derail the current conversation as calling it pointless. Even though it's not.

Good call.

@Cworl - Any conversation is good conversation.

[CryMeARiver]

Really.

You want justified bandwagons in RVs? If I had a justification it wouldn't be a RV.

I didn't say I want justified bandwagons. I don't want bandwagons at all, because their only justification is that they are a bandwagon. If you have a reason to suspect someone is scum, then you're voting that player not because you are "jumping on the bandwagon," but because you think the player might actually be scum.

Furthermore, RVS is random only for the town. Scum know who each other are, so for them the voting is not random. Therefore, they have a little bit of leverage (in their power of numbers, even if there are only a couple of them) to direct on whom the bandwagon falls. Occasionally, we might get lucky and see a bunch of townies randomly bandwagoning a scum; but it is much more likely that we end up with a townie getting bandwagoned, and that townie is more likely to be lynched than those who voted him -- because someone,

anyone

, can discern a "scum read" in the tea leaves of his reaction. If no one else does it, one of the scum can throw that first stone -- but usually there is a useful idiot in the town to do it first.

For the record, quick meta of Ironhead shows this is exactly how he usually feels.

[earworm]

Yeah that's the meta for iron. frustrating for people like me, but whatever

@cworl: instead of complaining about the lack of scumhunting, how about *gasp* do some scumhunting yourself?

[CryMeARiver]

Decided my vote could serve a better purpose elsewhere.

Unvote; Vote: TheJakalope

[The Mask]

Vote: ironhead

Don't care about meta. His attack on jil is too pushy for so little. I think C-Worl is town this time. I don't believe I've ever seen him be this calm out the gate. BUT yes, do scumhunt. CMAR comes across like a lone sk or traitor, to be frank. This is a "dont target me, buds" playstyle.

[CryMeARiver]

Vote: ironhead

Don't care about meta. His attack on jil is too pushy for so little. I think C-Worl is town this time. I don't believe I've ever seen him be this calm out the gate. BUT yes, do scumhunt. CMAR comes across like a lone sk or traitor, to be frank. This is a "dont target me, buds" playstyle.

If I was traitor, I'd want my buds to target me honestly. I really dislike being on my own.

To be honest, I didn't remember a traitor or SK in this game - thanks for the reminded. But no, my play can be explained, I just choose not to explain it at this point. And yes, CWorl is town me thinks.

[jilynne1991]

We seem to be arguing scum hunting theories in this thread more than we're actually scum hunting. Mafia is an ever evolving game. As we learn the things scum do the scum learn not to do them and you'll always see townies who do those things on accident. What may have been an accurate strategy last month could be outdated this month. Therefore if people vote each other for contrasting theories (the rvs wagon for example) then the best thing is to just let them bc we can eventually learn things just by seeing how they react to each other in a one on one situation.

We're not mass claiming Vezo. Not on D1.

Vezo has permanently broken my scumdar for him by being consistently and constantly scummy. Frustrating as hell.

That's exactly what I'm thinking. He makes me laugh because of his stupidity and oblivioun, but it makes me frustrated too!

[jilynne1991]

I was going to say we should MC. But then I thought and no I'm not going to say.

Please explain why you bother posting then? What you're doing is generally called active lurking.

[Cobblerfone]

That's exactly what I'm thinking. He makes me laugh because of his stupidity and oblivioun, but it makes me frustrated too!

Please explain why you bother posting then? What you're doing is generally called active lurking.

Um? Doesn't this second post strike anyone a bit odd when it seems jil is familiar with vezok?

[CryMeARiver]

That's exactly what I'm thinking. He makes me laugh because of his stupidity and oblivioun, but it makes me frustrated too!

Please explain why you bother posting then? What you're doing is generally called active lurking.

Um? Doesn't this second post strike anyone a bit odd when it seems jil is familiar with vezok?

Why do you care about others opinions so much?

[Surye]

She's just jumping on the sitewide bandwagon against Vezo.

[Surye]

That's exactly what I'm thinking. He makes me laugh because of his stupidity and oblivioun, but it makes me frustrated too!

Please explain why you bother posting then? What you're doing is generally called active lurking.

Um? Doesn't this second post strike anyone a bit odd when it seems jil is familiar with vezok?

Why do you care about others opinions so much?

Other's expressions of opinions are often great for scum hunting. Keeping note of D1 interactions can prove useful later. Why question and implicitly discourage questions, especially this early in the game?

[monk]

That's exactly what I'm thinking. He makes me laugh because of his stupidity and oblivioun, but it makes me frustrated too!

Please explain why you bother posting then? What you're doing is generally called active lurking.

Um? Doesn't this second post strike anyone a bit odd when it seems jil is familiar with vezok?

not really, I see it as jil trying to get vezok to be productive.

Also Vezo wagon is so much fun though, in my experience with him he doesn't actually contribute much and rarely tries to crawl out of rvs.