Open 302: JUNGLE REPUB nope game over! Party time!

[zMuffinMan]

Re: the VCA, to put it simply, your VCA doesn't "support" your suspicions, it just makes sense if you're right. And it would make sense with almost any other suspicions you have.

[Regfan]

Regfan's aggressive pushing of havingfitz is noted. Havingfitz's townreads are very, very solid. Don't lose the game for everyone, regfan.

Apart from sharing the same suspicions as HavingFitz what makes you believe Sloths slot is town?

You don't have to accept my VCA thoughts if you don't want. Tell me this...what are your reads on Hez, Wicked, and yourself? If at least two of them are town reads...then you are basically in agreemenet with me...if all three of them are town or leaning town, then WTH are you busting my balls for? Was there anything in my post 610 that you did agree with or that might have been made apparent to you? Even something that might have eluded me?

I have a strong town-read on Wicked, leaning scum on Hez and what's the point of asking me for my read on myself? #610 was meaningless, it really was it's attempting to validify your FoS's by showing how your PoE works.

I'll make it clearer. You're saying, I have town-reads on Wicked, Hez and Regfan. Hmm. I'll put them in the VCA. Muffin, Magna, DK and Neil came out mafia.
See, you're really not showing us your actual reasoning behind your town-reads, and that's what you need to do.

A. Maybe I'm misreading this, but you haven't answered my question. I understand how you would find pushing strongly for a lynch to 'scream town'. However, you said my post where I gave my reads 'screamed town'. Why is that?

Perhaps I misphrased it, it's not soley the inclusion of reads that 'screamed town' it was your entire attitude with how you used those reads.

B. I am concerned with your reasons for believing that a Werewolf wouldn't strongly push for a lynch. Reason 1 is kind of weak and basically WIFOM, right? Reason 2 doesn't make any sense to me- can you explain it in more detail?

1 isn't wifom at all, there's minimal for a sheep to gain out of an act like that whereas a lot to lose, reason two Muffin brought up earlier and I stated I don't see werewolfs attempting to attract that much attention however I do realize how weak that is.

So, just to be clear, you want to know my town reads so we can protect them from getting lynched?

Right now it's much easier to scumhunt via using PoE and explaining your town-reads, therefore understanding what your town-reads are better helps me understand who you suspect.

By opportunistic do you mean 'going for the easy target'? ...because he was only the second vote on the Sloth bandwagon.

It was done at a period where multiple other players had stated intention to vote Sloth and when no other lynch was being pushed by multiple players therefore his vote on Sloth increased the chances it would go through massively.

@MoI, Regfan & havingfitz- What do you guys think of this point from zMM? Also, notice how, rather than convince me of his PoV, he simply tries to justify it by saying 'a link is a link'. What do you think of that?

To be honest, I need to do a lot more reading into it because the context is vague, first impression is the defence of 'a link is a link' is extremely weak reasoning and doesn't help explain anything.

[DeityKabuto]

Re: the VCA, to put it simply, your VCA doesn't "support" your suspicions, it just makes sense if you're right. And it would make sense with almost any other suspicions you have.

I agree, reasoning > VCA.

[Wickedestjr]

1. I will be looking back but why don't you disagree with the havingfitz vote? I know you aren't voting for him yourself ... did you find sloth scummy?
2. Please outline why you disagree with my 542 statements. I'd love to see what in it you have issues with.

1. Yes, I found Sloth suspicious. havingfitz hasn't really done much to change that read (he hasn't strengthened the suspicion, but, at the same time, he hasn't done/said anything to change my mind about the slot, but I still need to read the last page).
2. a.) The points you bring up against DK in that post seem really weak.
b.) While I also suspect Sloth, I completely disagree that the LynchMePls death is indicative of Sloth being scum. I also have issue with your reasoning:

But in this set-up (known roles) there is one strong reason for the Werewolves to kill anyone after the Seer is dead – they are the greatest threat them. With that in mind I would guess that the bottom of LMP’s scum list is very likely to contain a Wolf.

First of all, as you even acknowledged, this is WIFOM. Secondly, (considering the possibility where Sloth is werewolf) then suspecting Slothscum doesn't necessarily make LynchMePls the biggest threat to Slothscum and his partner. There

are

other options for nightkills: the most pro-town players or players that haven't attracted a lot of suspicion and the mafia (who, from the werewolves' perspective, act as a mason group). Question: Would this point against Sloth be valid in any other mafia game? Or do you think it is especially valid because this is a Jungle Republic?

[Wickedestjr]

EBWOP: Just to be clear, when I say mason group I mean two players that know each other to not be werewolves.

[Wickedestjr]

Spoiler: zMuffinMan

a.) It wasn't something I had realized you were guilty of until you made a post in which you commented on a point against Empking without giving your read on him.
b.) There is a difference between the point I'm using against you and the point you're using against me. You could easily notice my reasons for believing neil vs. Empking was town vs. town just by reading the thread. Not noticing that you hadn't given your opinion on either of them was something that required an iso read.
c.) My point against you was stronger the later it was brought up.

a) It wasn't something I was guilty of full-stop. I was null on that argument, and I explained why.
b) Convenient excuse.
c) No.

a.) Irrelevant (Hint: I've already conceded that point). I'm no longer trying to prove that the point is valid. I'm explaining why it took me so long to notice it in the first place.
b.) It's not a convenient excuse. Once again you have avoided addressing my argument and have, instead, insisted that you are right. The point against me was something you could have easily noticed simply from reading the thread. The point against you was something that required me to do an iso read. Otherwise, you can't expect me to remember what everybody's stances are off the top of my head.
c.)

Once again you have avoided addressing my argument and have, instead, insisted that you are right.

I don't see how you could possibly disagree with this point.

Your defense (or lack thereof) only strengthens my opinion that my argument against you is valid. If it wasn't then you would be capable of defending yourself. You are scum and you're not good at hiding it.

I brought up meta after making a case on him because I decided to look into his meta to see if I could find anything that would help. The only two games I found at the time were one completed game he flipped town and another ongoing game he flipped town. I looked at them, his playstyle was vastly different to these games, so I mentioned it.

It was never a part of my case against him, but I do think the fact he is playing differently to his town meta, on top of my case, is good circumstantial evidence.

Can you link me to the two games please?

Do you actually have a problem with this, or are you just trying way too hard to discredit anything you can about my case on Hez?

Yes, I have a problem with it. I don't see how you can consider meta 'good circumstantial evidence' when you don't have any scum meta for comparison.

Well, that way the real seer wouldn't have to out himself without a result (had Empking not been the real seer). I'm not saying I agree with MoI's plan (I didn't), but there was no scum motivation in his suggestion, and you calling it suspicious is a joke.

For the record, we didn't need the real seer to claim immediately. They could have claimed at a designated massclaim time or we could've lynched Empkingscum when the seer died. I do believe that MoI's suggestion was suspicious and I've explained why. But tell me. Why do YOU disagree with the plan?

Also, by 'a joke' do you mean suspicious?

Another quote I don't want to go unnoticed:

The scum motivation isn't in you lying

, although there's no town motivation there either. The scum motivation is in you pushing a baseless point against me.

This is a blatant lie. Here you say:

What happened was you brought up a really old post and said you had a problem with it. I asked why you didn't mention it earlier. You said you did. I called bullshit because you didn't.

So no, I'm not attacking you for an old post,

I'm attacking you for lying about what you said you did.

Why have you been attacking me for lying if you don't think there is any scum motivation for it?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Sloth / Havingfitz ISO Review

–

Sloth

RVS votes me.

ISO 3 - Votes DK for his bad early play right after Hez votes for him Day 1.

ISO 4 – Say DK is scum no matter which way Empking flips due to his tunnelling.

ISO 6 – Calls DK noob-scum. Says he’d also lynch Empking (who was only mentioned in ISO before thirdhand) or Twisted (who he threw a simple question at)

Lots of softball questions that are never followed up on (ISO 2,5,8)

ISO 9 – Drops L-1 vote on Empking causing his claim.

ISO 12/13 – Unvotes Empking (after two others) and then votes Twisted (at the time Twisted had 3 votes and Neil had 2)

This ends Day 1 and effectively all of Sloth’s input.

I’ve already pointed out in my back and forth with Having elements of his posting that I find scummy.

In summary – Sloth’s Day 1 contributions lacked any significant scum-hunting and would be best classified as active-lurking (which he took to new levels Day 2). His suspicions revolved mostly around those players under the most general suspicion (DK, Empking, Twisted) with ‘suspicion aimed at Neil but never acted upon via vote or pressure.

Having has continued keeping this vote profile at a minimum. I notice Neil still is in his list of ‘suspects’ but once again the slot has zero interaction with him. Look at his ISO. Neil only appears in his catch-up post and his ‘VC Analysis’. No questions or direct quotes of Neil posts.

Finally Having’s DK vote Day 3 comes at a time when the following a wagons are established –

neil1113 (3) - Regfan, Wickedestjr, DK
HezLucky (1) - zMuffinMan
havingfitz (1) - MagnaofIllusion
MagnaofIllusion (1) – HezLucky

If Neil was a real scum read for havingfitz I would assume he would be more likely to support an active wagon on Neil than trying to start a new one on DK.

Possible link between Neil and the slot noted.

--

Neil ISO Review

–

Neil’s pre-game continual ‘Oops’ postings still sit as a Null tell for me.

ISO 5 – Votes Empking to pressure him for better content.

The whole head to head with Empking is also a Null Tell for me. Empking was clearly not playing a very logical and solid game so the push back and forth could be EmpkingTown agains Neil of any alignment.

His first significant interaction with anyone other than Empking comes at ISO 29 –

1. He says Diety would be a good ISO target (aka likely scummy) except there would be nothing to review other than Empking interactions.
2. Doesn’t see the logic behind ‘cases’ on Sloth or Hez.
3. Thinks Twisted is second scummiest player.

Has some back and forth with Muffin and Regfan around ISO 30 to 40 but that section contains mostly 1-liner responses.

ISO 45 – votes Hezlucky for being the scum on Empking’s L-1 wagon.

Around ISO 47 he starts some back and forth with Wicked.

ISO 50 – “Alright well considering the deadline is gone, does everyone agree that a Twistedspoon flip would really be the most beneficial thing for us?” – He states this while his vote is on Hez and Twisted is at L-1. Reads as fishing for support for a hammer vote.

Day 1 ends here.

Starts the day with some fluff and pointlessly arguing with Regfan about Regfan’s projection of MYLO / LYLO.

ISO 53 – Calls Wicked scum for ‘scum Paranoia’, continues to call Hez scummy.

ISO 54 – Asks DK why he doesn’t trust Neil.

ISO 55 – Votes DK. For not scum-hunting and having ‘no case’ on Neil.

ISO 56 – Says DK is a VI and “At least, not worthy of my attention to lynch more then HezLucky.”. Yet he is still voting for DK as of this post.

ISO 58 –“I actually strongly agree with the CJ case, though I don't see why people would be willing to lynch Sloth over CJ when Sloth is wanting to replace out?

I'm willing to hammer, but I'm not going to lie, the LynchMePls vote on CJ looks a lot like a bus vote...”

Quoted for Sloth interactioin (he continues to ignore the slot).

Day 3 he has stated suspicions of Hez, Deity, Sloth and DK as possible CJ Partners.

“However, I'm not so much concerned with trying to find his partners, as I am trying to find the werewolves. Considering Mafia are just useless, and it's the Wolves that do the killing, it'd be nice to try and lynch one of them. Considering the circumstances, I'll eliminate VI Deity, and easy wagon'd Sloth from my main suspects and focus in on Hez and DK. I'll be ISOing each of them individually, and posting what I find (or don't find) in these ISO's.”

Note he disregards Sloth as an ‘easy wagon’ as someone not to focus on.

ISO 63 begins his “make a case” responses to the votes on him.

[zMuffinMan]

Your defense (or lack thereof) only strengthens my opinion that my argument against you is valid. If it wasn't then you would be capable of defending yourself. You are scum and you're not good at hiding it.

There's nothing to defend there because your attack has no merit.

Where is your argument for me being scum there, now that you've 'conceded' the original argument?

Can you link me to the two games please?

Talked about them here

Why do YOU disagree with the plan?

Because there was a slight possibility that werewolves would gambit and keep him alive until D2 (if they thought Emp had a low chance of hitting a werewolf).

Also, by 'a joke' do you mean suspicious?

No, I mean it's a terrible argument. Although the amount of terrible arguments you've made is suspicious.

Why have you been attacking me for lying if you don't think there is any scum motivation for it?

Because it's a lie that you were using to push a baseless point against me. The lie in itself wasn't scummy; the fact you were lying while trying to use it against me is.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Havingfitz’s reaction to the prod in 597 is suspect.

1. How are 48 hour deadlines bad?
2. Why didn’t you V/LA (as many of us did) for the holiday weekend?
3. Resorting to the “Why doesn’t X also get a prod” response?

I agree with Muffin and Regfan regarding having’s ‘VC Analysis’ at 600. It’s not an actual VC analysis. An actual VC analysis uses all vote-counts and draws conclusions

FROM

the voting patterns. Having has just shoe-horned his ‘reads’ into a handful of VC’s to support them.

--

@MoI, Regfan & havingfitz- What do you guys think of this point from zMM? Also, notice how, rather than convince me of his PoV, he simply tries to justify it by saying 'a link is a link'. What do you think of that?

I have a Town read on Muffin at this stage for Two reasons.

1. His posts haven’t really dinged my scum-dar.
2. POE. I have some solid scum reads and some tentative scum reads. He’s not in them and I’ve run out of scum slots.

I personally think you are over-blowing the ‘link is a link’ comment. I tend to agree with your assessment but understand how you can see links as he is. Hell, I’m beginning to doubt my DK – Hezlucky Evil Sheep link based on the Vote-counts but I see it plain as day in their posting.

--

Claim: Vanilla Town

havingfitz, and everyone else who votes me after this is scum.

Insert face-palm pic here.

--

Why are half of the people in this game scum? You guys really suck. Someone bus Muffin/Magna already.

Clear evidence Hez has nothing but ranting and rhetoric in his ‘arsenol’. He’s called Muffin and I Werewolf partners. The other Evil Sheep would have no reason not to vote us (like Hez is voting me) if they truly though we were scum. That’s not bussing

Note he continues to refuse to make reads on who might be Evil Sheep. Scumtastic.

Regfan's aggressive pushing of havingfitz is noted. Havingfitz's townreads are very, very solid. Don't lose the game for everyone, regfan.

1. Appealing to Fear. Scumtastic.
2. Buddying to havingfitz noted.
3. Underlying assumption that Reg if Town from Hez noted.

Magna has spent the entire game planning lynches, and I don't think he would do this without the ability to kill (too much uncertainty -- it would be futile to try).

Lulz. I’m the scum faction who can determine with absolute certainty who dies at Night. Hez’s theory is that I’d plan out lynches as opposed to just staying in the background.

Luzl.

--

I still find it odd that you would've considered lynching Empking to be the best way to determine his allignment as opposed to the real seer counterclaiming him.

Why should the real Seer counterclaim Day 2 if they don’t have a Guilty. If they do sure. Otherwise it’s outing themselves for no reason.

As I have addressed – you can’t provide a realistic scenario where a claimed Seer survives where they are not a Wolf. In fact in this game Empking, who played very scummy Day 1 and could have been a viable lynch had he not scanned a Wolf, was not left alive on the ‘off-chance’ he didn’t hit a Wolf or was fake-claiming Mafia.

Both quotes were from post 473.

Ok, looking at the post in question -

I have something I’m keeping my eye on but I want to see more posts from him today.

This was in regards to Hez. I wanted to see how his posts Day 3 developed in context of the CJ Evil Sheep lynch and how that affected his reads. The result – his reads more or less didn’t budge other than his buddying up to now active Having.

Never the less my pressure on you has yielded what I was interested in seeing from you currently.

I wanted to see DK’s reaction to further direct pressure. His backing off to my questioning and vote aligns with my ‘DK is probably scum’ theory.

--

Like I’ve said…I have examples where someone ignoring one thread while being active in another was a town. In fact…I think most of the times I have encountered this situation it HAS been town.

And I have examples of Scum doing it FAR more than Town. I find it a strong scum-tell personally.

I would argue that you DO need statistical analysis when making over the top assertions to support your suspicions on someone.

Well where is the strong statistical analysis support for all your ‘strong’ personal tells then? Those are just as ‘over the top’ as anything I’ve said.

Anyone who elects to bail on a game based on your ISO 46 above has no business playing mafia. If you really think your ISO 46 scared Sloth away I can only shake my head in disbelief. Your comment is hardly a damning indictment on Sloth.

Your ISO 49 came AFTER Sloth has went AWOL.

You can not accuse someone of being AWOL for something you say is a RESULT of him going AWOL. You are really reaching with the (and I paraphrase) “Sloth bailed because he was under so much pressure” theory.

The bolded is an ABSOLUTE LIE!

Sloth requested replacement at post 496. My ISO 49 came at post 444. This is before his request for replacement.

I’ve never asserted that I ‘caused’ Sloth to not post in thread and then replace out. You are fabricating that in an attempt to straw-man my position. He was under suspicion by more than just me.

Fact – Sloth had some suspicion in this game Day 2.
Fact – Sloth actively posted in other threads while avoiding this thread and eventually replaced out while staying active in other threads.

And yes…when people vote someone out of the blue without any reasoning (or without reasons I can perceive in the context of other posts/conversations) I find it suspicious. I just finished a game with Faraday where I attacked him for this very reason, ended up backing off, and lost to Faraday scum. So that is two personal tells I have fell victim to that you are waving off.

So you significant personal tell is based of a single game? Hardly a statistically valid tell then. Have you ever played with Faraday as Town?

You seem more than happy to wave off my ‘personal tells’ as Null. Why shouldn’t I be able to do the same with yours?

IMO you're sidestepping the fact that you were lining up the next day’s lynch. Here is a reminder:

Actually I’m directly telling you that’s not lining up lynches and you have no idea what you are talking about. Vastly different than sidestepping.

Suspicions change. Over the course of a two full days catch up….suspicions or comments made early in the read may very well change later in the read through. Why is that so hard to comprehend? I mentioned four suspects…why do I have to build a case on you for an initial gut suspicion?

1. Your presentation was hardly a little ‘gut suspicion’ post. You presented it as a very comprehensive look at the game with comments on a number of things you found suspicious.
2.

INCONSISTENCY DETECTED

!!! You’ve been hammering (falsely, I might add) about my ‘sudden’ suspicion and vote for you yet you are trying to use the ‘suspicions change’ defense yourself.

I can’t distance myself from Sloth because I took over his role.

Actually you absolutely can. As I’ve said it is a pretty common scum tactic to use. Replacements always have their own point of view but scum have more motivation to effectively say “Hey, I’m replacing a moron!”.

First off…I bolded the comments in my quote. Are you even paying attention to what you write?

Yes. I copy / paste and don’t take original formatting with me. The bolded is the part of your comment that makes NO sense form the perspective you are arguing.

Nice use of further dismissive language.

I realize it would not make sense for the wolves to leave an actual seer alive. But why not agree with the logic that IF Emp HAD made it to D2…continuing to not vote him would be the best move for town?

Because this isn’t Fantasyland? Seriously … go find me a single Jungle Republic game where a claimed Seer survived the Night after claiming and wasn’t the killing faction. If you know of one please do because I have never seen it myself.

You can’t come up with a SINGLE scenario where it makes sense for the Werewolves to leave a non-Wolf claimed Seer alive overnight. Not a single one that isn’t a WIFOM fest that revolves around gambling with bad percentages on the Wolf team’s part.

[Wickedestjr]

Claim: Vanilla Town

I did

NOT

see that coming.

@Wicked -

3.

The comments in line 263 were my summary of Magna's post 263. I was not calling DK a policy lynch, Magna was.
1. I didn't think it needed comment. Looking back on it I don't see the posts you compare being equal. DK appears to be leading town away from looking for scum on a cj wagon while I am essentially saying that I could be wrong in my top four scum suspects. Which I think is a perfectly normal rationale for anyone who does not possess ESP or a cheat sheet from the mod.
2. I don't know. I haven't considered whether it is in their best interests to find mafia or not. I hope they pursue and hit mafia.

1. What did you mean when you said 'way to commit', then?
2. -
3. I understand that. I still think it seems odd how you would discredit MoI's suspicion of DK despite you voting/suspecting him.

[Wickedestjr]

Also, havingfitz, why do you think DK and neil are werewolves and not mafia?

[MagnaofIllusion]

I'm putting this in a seperate post -

UNVOTE: havingfitz
VOTE: Neil

That should put Neil at L-1.

After reviewing neil's ISO I think Regs' summary of the case on Neil is pretty accurate.

His activity has dropped WAY off after the day one blow-up with Empking. He's not committed to any strong reads or even voted Day 3. I don't see a strong push towards Havingfitz Scum developing so I'd rather have my vote somewhere effective.

[DeityKabuto]

Someone hammer neil.

[Umbrage]

Vote Count:

neil1113 (4) - Regfan, Wickedestjr, DeityKabuto, MagnaofIllusion (One vote away from lynch!)
HezLucky (1) - zMuffinMan
MagnaofIllusion (1) - HezLucky
DeityKabuto (1) - havingfitz

Not Voting: neil1113

[MagnaofIllusion]

Vote Count:

neil1113 (4) - Regfan, Wickedestjr, DeityKabuto, MagnaofIllusion (One vote away from lynch!)
HezLucky (1) - zMuffinMan
MagnaofIllusion (1) - HezLucky
DeityKabuto (1) - havingfitz

Not Voting: neil1113

Isolating the following for future relational purposes.

Note that both Having and Hez have both said "Neil is in my scum pool". Let's see what happens from here.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Vote Count:

neil1113 (4) - Regfan, Wickedestjr, DeityKabuto, MagnaofIllusion (One vote away from lynch!)
HezLucky (1) - zMuffinMan
MagnaofIllusion (1) - HezLucky
DeityKabuto (1) - havingfitz

Not Voting: neil1113

Isolating the following for future relational purposes.

Note that

Having has said

"Neil is in my scum pool". Let's see what happens from here.

EWBOP of the above ... bolded for changed text.

[DeityKabuto]

Also, I think MangaofIllusion is town, or if not, at least helping the town, good to keep him around for a while.

[neil1113]

I can't be around to post, since I'm on V/LA. So thanks for giving me a chance. I'm town, so go ahead and hammer if you'd like. I can't post an accurate defense against anything right now, as I barely had time to get to a computer. If you think I'm lying, hammer me and see for yourselves. DK is most definitely not town though, see why he wants to quick lynch me? Yep. Anyways, I'm not going to self-hammer, as that will help the scum. I'll be back around the 4th, or 5th. I think.

[HezLucky]

^^^ ugh, that above post is not helpful.

I've stated repeatedly that I'm only going to be voting for Magna or Muffin, so don't expect a hammer from me.

Neil, if you want to live, I suggest you get something started on one of those two.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I can't be around to post, since I'm on V/LA. So thanks for giving me a chance. I'm town, so go ahead and hammer if you'd like. I can't post an accurate defense against anything right now, as I barely had time to get to a computer. If you think I'm lying, hammer me and see for yourselves. DK is most definitely not town though, see why he wants to quick lynch me? Yep. Anyways, I'm not going to self-hammer, as that will help the scum. I'll be back around the 4th, or 5th. I think.

@Neil

- we have no set date for deadline that I can see.

Why didn't you actually vote DK in this post (would not take any time) if you are sure he is scum as opposed to leaving your vote idle. I eagerly await the explanation for this.

--

Is there anyone (outside of Hez himself and Havingfitz) who has any sort of Town read on Hez?

[HezLucky]

Is there anyone (outside of Hez himself and Havingfitz) who has any sort of Town read on Hez?

So let me get this straight: you're trying to intimidate/scare me into voting neil so that I can "look better" to the town? Screw that. I already told you I don't play to a meta. And you are EXTREMELY scum. (Appeal to fear noted. Hah.)

When are we going to lynch this guy? Anyone who loses has only themselves to blame.

[HezLucky]

Also, quite consistent with Magna trying to set up lynches this entire game. How is this guy not lynched yet?

[havingfitz]

Not sure how much posting I'll get to tonight. The Magna post 633 alone will take forever to reply to. WTF with all the walls.....? As for your [Magna] pathetic attempt to coerce me into hammering neil, I like my read on DK more than I do neil. Plus neil's last post had a town feel to it that has me questioning my view on him. No need to rush the day's end and I still want to look things over (aside from the VCA). neil may still get my vote but it won't be until I'm ready...not when Magna or DK are.

[havingfitz]

OK...another quick look at neil's post and maybe it's not that townish. Regardless of neil's alignment I'm not too worried about him self hammering as I doubt a werewolf would self hammer (even with two in the game) and I doubt scum would as well to bring their total to one. I still want to catch up and make a few replies before I consider ending the day.

[zMuffinMan]

Need to clarify something:

@Regfan, Wicked, DK, MoI,

Do you think neil is a werewolf or mafia? And why?