Wizards at the Sorcerers' Den - Endgame

[Albert B. Rampage]

Pretty sure he's town

[Soben]

Strange. R and I both feel that the recent argument between us (specifically R) and implosion would very much help others see what we are seeing with regards to implosion.

"Soben you are interfering with my ability to scumhunt by defending gandalf" - lol wut? That makes no sense whatsoever tbh. Honestly, I feel that at times mafia argue for the sake of arguing. While the same could be said about R's involvement in this past argument, he is incredibly incredibly stubborn and also there was a purpose beyond it....to expose implosion's defensiveness and generally need for bad excuses for his play so far. At some point town-implosion would just say something along the lines of "Soben, you are wrong...I'm going to ignore you for now and move on to actually scumhunting". That is the sane and rational response as town have nothing to hide and eventually would say...meh is this really a fight worth fighting? Perhaps I can prove my towniness through my other actions...namely scumhunting other players. Maybe that will change Soben's mind on me.

I very much feel that when arguments last too long and are over such superficial things that it is quite often scum who just aren't willing to lose an argument. Any lost argument would be evidence they are scum and god forbid nothing is more frightening to scum than looking bad and conceding a few minor points in an argument. I wholeheartedly agree with R and think implosion is scum, but alas if that lynch doesn't happen I'd be willing to support another lynch.

ABR, I see you are voting Zdenek. That is a lynch I could see us getting behind. What do you think of lynching RBT? Also...what about implosion's play makes you pretty sure he's town?

[Albert B. Rampage]

I'm OK with lynching RBT if she continues to lurk.

The way implosion defends himself makes me think he's town.

[Soben]

ABR, I think you are wrong. The way he defends himself appears town, but if you look past his well-crafted words and delve into the content of what he is actually saying, I just can't agree with you. I'll have to consult with R with regards to Zdenek, but don't think he would be a terrible lynch either.

[Bunnylover]

Got a few pages to catch up on.
Will try to do so (will have it done by Wedensday at the latest.)

[Zdenek]

Don't believe I said that Amrun was an easier target than Beefster.
Those would be the reasons I gave when I voted him.

What makes you think that Amrun is an easier target than Beefster?
What were the good reasons for voting Pine?

Zdenek however, is making softly softly attacks on easy targets, which to me points at scum trying to not get too invested in a mis-lynch.
Beefster/Amrun for example.

I attacked Amrun out of that pair.

Here were your reasons for voting Pine:

Pine:

I'm thinking Icey has some kind of ability that can only function against people who have voted for them, or something like that.

Vig please.

reasonable assumption.

PE: Icey probably isn't a Wizard with a bunch of powers. They're probably either a weakly-powered, high HP goon supporting the Wizards or a Third Party with unusual goals. Hell, this is Theme Park, they might actually be some form of Jester, counting on our default "lolnojesters" reaction.

Ok, expanding the Icey theory into something that appears slightly more scummy.

I refuse to vote for Icey at this time, on caution that he may have an ability (or even wincon) that triggers if everyone votes for him in one day without lynch, or something crazy like that.

Ok, now expanded again to something alarmist.

Pine's case presentation here is kind of like the fortuneteller who keeps slipping the reading wider until it something clicks. Reasonable, to slightly scummy, to "My god it could cost us the game"

I don't think there's been any new informatuion about Icey's claim, except icey refusing to expand on it and claiming it's pro-town.

Actually, Pine is starting to sound like I did at the end of Stars Aligned when pushing Benmage.

Vote Pine

First of all, I don't think this is a good point. Also, who else has arguably been alarmist over IceyC's claim:

You really want to continue pushing this? I see the possibly of roles such as a cult-recruiter who is only allowed to recuit if he obtains x number of votes a day in the game thus there are indeed risks to voting him while no risks in not doing so.

but not a word from you, so I don't believe that you think this is such a good scum tell as you say it is.

OUT OF NECESSITY, EVERYONE NEEDS TO EITHER BE VOTING IMPLOSION, GANDALF, OR RBT. NOW.

This isn't necessary yet, but of your choices I support RBT the most because it's doubtful that I'll manage to get a read her while she's plays like this.

Here is what Soben has had to say about me:

Zdenek: Null.

Amrum, I can agree with your read on Zdenek

Null: SnakePlussken, inHimshallibe, Zdenek, BunnyLover.

Here are our top 5 scum reads:

1. implosion
2. bunnylover
3. zdenek
4. lmp
5. riceballtail
(alternate: dryfit)

I'll have to consult with R with regards to Zdenek, but don't think he would be a terrible lynch either.

So I end up as one of their preferred lynches for the day with them saying nothing about me. By the way, Bunnylover also moved from null to scum with the only comment them making about her being that they think she might be scum buddies with Implosion.

As far as their argument with Implosion goes. I think Implosion made one good point about Gandalf, the rest varied between fair and poor. Soben has spent along time arguing with Implosion over this. They have essentially ignored the good point that Implosion made, only saying that:

3. I need to re-read into this more and have a discussion with S about it, but it looks like a valid point.

The argument about Pine not posting after he was pressured is pointless because Pine didn't stop posting, but said he was removing the game from his bookmarks, so when Gandalf commented about that he was making a fair point, and Implosion's point that Pine didn't stop posting is reasonable too, but Soben has been focusing on this for awhile. I think that Soben is right about the changing of reads and not releasing information not being a scum tell and that vote hopping is not a scum-tell. However, being wrong is not a scum-tell. I think the best point against Implosion is his accusation of Soben chainsaw defending Gandalf, while having a town-read on Soben. However, this sort of mistake in logic, is something that I have seen townies guilty of in the past, so I'm hesitant to lynch because of it. I'm also not convinced that Implosion is scum pushing a bad case, because my impression is that he believes it.

[Soben]

So I end up as one of their preferred lynches for the day with them saying nothing about me. By the way, Bunnylover also moved from null to scum with the only comment them making about her being that they think she might be scum buddies with Implosion.

Most of our reasoning actually occurs when we discuss our reads together rather than stating it plainly in the thread which is something we will work towards doing. My read on BunnyLover changed from null to scum due to the massive amount of contradictions that S showed me in Post #426 whereas our scum-read on you was mostly because S believes your posts up until recently have been severely lacking in content.

As far as their argument with Implosion goes. I think Implosion made one good point about Gandalf, the rest varied between fair and poor. Soben has spent along time arguing with Implosion over this. They have essentially ignored the good point that Implosion made

I went back to read through it and noticed that Implosion had massively exaggerated the occurances of Gandalfs misreads, it had only happened once not multiple times as he was trying to make it out to be.

[Baby Spice]

Don't believe I said that Amrun was an easier target than Beefster.
Those would be the reasons I gave when I voted him.

What makes you think that Amrun is an easier target than Beefster?
What were the good reasons for voting Pine?

Zdenek however, is making softly softly attacks on easy targets, which to me points at scum trying to not get too invested in a mis-lynch.
Beefster/Amrun for example.

I attacked Amrun out of that pair.

So that would be you calling Amrun an easier target than Beefster, not me.
Whereas, in my opinion, your other easy target would be lurker Snake.

I'm at work now, so I'll put down a placeholder vote because I didn't like his most recent post, but I'll revisit this game later today.

Vote SnakePlissken

Here were your reasons for voting Pine:

Pine:

I'm thinking Icey has some kind of ability that can only function against people who have voted for them, or something like that.

Vig please.

reasonable assumption.

PE: Icey probably isn't a Wizard with a bunch of powers. They're probably either a weakly-powered, high HP goon supporting the Wizards or a Third Party with unusual goals. Hell, this is Theme Park, they might actually be some form of Jester, counting on our default "lolnojesters" reaction.

Ok, expanding the Icey theory into something that appears slightly more scummy.

I refuse to vote for Icey at this time, on caution that he may have an ability (or even wincon) that triggers if everyone votes for him in one day without lynch, or something crazy like that.

Ok, now expanded again to something alarmist.

Pine's case presentation here is kind of like the fortuneteller who keeps slipping the reading wider until it something clicks. Reasonable, to slightly scummy, to "My god it could cost us the game"

I don't think there's been any new informatuion about Icey's claim, except icey refusing to expand on it and claiming it's pro-town.

Actually, Pine is starting to sound like I did at the end of Stars Aligned when pushing Benmage.

Vote Pine

First of all, I don't think this is a good point. Also, who else has arguably been alarmist over IceyC's claim:

It's not that he was alarmist per se, but that he built up from a reasonable thing to an alarmist thing.
That he escalated his rhetoric with nothing from Icey that would have supported such an escalation.

[inHimshallibe]

Hey guys! How was the weekend.

[Beefster]

Baby Spice looks overconfident/cocky scum.

[Beefster]

EBWODP:

Baby Spice looks

like

overconfident/cocky scum.

[Riceballtail]

I'm OK with lynching RBT if she continues to lurk.

So you're saying that at least 35% of the player list is lurking?

[Albert B. Rampage]

Unvote, vote RBT

OK everyone vote RBT let's get this over with.

[Riceballtail]

Unvote, vote RBT

OK everyone vote RBT let's get this over with.

So you admit you have a scumbuddy who's lurking more than I am?

[Albert B. Rampage]

I admit that you have continued to lurk, whether I am your scumbuddy has yet to be determined.

[SGRaaize]

I kinda feel sorry for RBT, but fuck this shit, this is boring as fuck.

Unvote

RBT

[SGRaaize]

CHOO CHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
ALL ABOARD, NEXT STOP: RICEBALLTRAIL'S ASS

[chesskid3]

I'm catching up today or replacing out.

That being said i think RBT plays like this regardless of alignment

though he was scum in the first one >_>

[gandalf5166]

though he was scum in the first one >_>

I'm still pissed that I forgot about it and bussed him thinking it would earn me towncred..... >.>

[LimMePls]

I don't consider RBT's mention of Mages a slip of any sort, inclusion of a faction called mages could almost be assumed given the history and style of this theme however I strongly dislike the argument between Amrum and RBT it's not productive in any way.

/agree

It is not necessarily a scumslip, after mage inclusion in past games (didn't know), but it could be.

Nice doublethink. +major scumpoints to Amrun for this one.

Despite my one statement you take issue with, you think my push on rbt was contentless and did not push for content?

You do make one good point, though.

RBT, your scumreads with reasoning. Go.

I love how Soben basically just showed how Amrun's attacks on RBT were terrible, and Amrun just waves it aside and then says "oh ya, but you have a good point in your question" and then tries to take the question and use it as her own. Scummy as hell.

Ok, basically every post between Soben and Amrun on page 41 is +scumpoints for Amrun and -scumpoints for Soben.

What I'm talking about:
2 players wanted a longer RVS. You only mentioned one of them.
2 players kept their random vote, while calling a different player scummy. Only one of them got called out by you.
At least 3 players mentioned that they think that the claim plan won't work as town players won't claim. Rhetorical question: Did all of them get called out?
Get it now?

I see, so your suggestion is that I'm targeting some people and not others. Well, I don't see it that way at all. Don't know what else to tell you. If I attacked some people and not others it's because 1) I thought they were more egregious, 2) I missed the one but not the other, 3) I had a read/meta of the other that made questioning that person irrelevant.

If you think its scummy, then so be it.

Amrun, what evidence do you have that suggests NOT multiple scumteams? I came into this game assuming multiple scumteams. First off, it's a large, and more larges have multiple scumteams than not. Second, it's a large with a complex setup, which likewise almost always have multiple scumteams. So the burden of proof is on YOU.

This is the other reason someone speculating 2 scum teams isn't scummy. It's normal for large games to have 2 scum teams, I'd find someone suggesting only 1 scummier than someone suggesting 2. All of this will have much more meaning when we have more flips. Kills will suggest the number of scum teams.

On beefster: a lot of what he's done appears to have scum motivation, or well, to be illogical and in many cases just downright scummy. My read on him, however, at this point, after all of the pressure on him, is null leaning town.

This language reads like someone trying to keep a mislynch open. "Everything he's done is scummy, but after the presure I have him null". WTF is that shit?

Here we go again. This happened in the last game and by rights they all decided they controlled the game. I for one do not like a group of players having their own private clique.

Unvote, Vote Soben

This is such bad posting its not even funny.

Snake reeks of scared scum.

Weird. Snake looks town to me.

Our opinions couldn't be any more opposite.

I am not sold on Snakescum yet. It's hard to read lurkers, usually.

LOL.

RBT wagon is looks like a mislynch. I particularly dislike the "oh well, sucks to be him, but this is boring. Time for a lynch" votes.

TOWN
Soben
Feysal
Albert B. Rampage
chesskid3
Mana_Ku
IceyCupcake
CryMeARiver
BabySpice
Zdenek
Dry-fit
PeregrineV
Katy
Bunnylover
WrathChild
Riceballtail
inHimshallibe
gandalf5166
SGRaaize
SnakePlissken
Amrun
Beefster
implosion
SCUM

Unvote
Vote: implosion

[Mana_Ku]

I'm catching up today or replacing out.

You know what you need to do >.< I'll help you out afterwards~
Anyway, tomorrow my opinion on some players.

[SGRaaize]

Unvote

Vote: Implosion

I hear 80 dollars.
The cat with the computer has bid 80 dollars for an Implosion lynch.
Who gives more?

[CryMeARiver]

CHOO CHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
ALL ABOARD, NEXT STOP: RICEBALLTRAIL'S ASS

Unvote

Vote: Implosion

I hear 80 dollars.
The cat with the computer has bid 80 dollars for an Implosion lynch.
Who gives more?

[SGRaaize]

I'm fine with both, the quickest wins. I want this day to end as soon as possible.

[Amrun]

LMP, what doles "sold" mean to you? If I am sold on somebody being scum, I am 90% sure. I find snake scummy, much scummier than the other lurkers, but I'm not totally confident in him as scum. Neither are you. What's the issue?