Succession Mafia II: OVER!

[Nobody Special]

Are you scum? Do you want to be?

I'm not scum. And I'd rather not be; I suck as scum.

I'd rather not see Ludi, in particular, pushed too hard, because he's a newbie and may look scummy even as a townie if he's pressured.

I don't like this. Not at all.

In other news, I'm fairly happy with the xvart case. If he starts acting less scummy and more townish, I'd be willing to flip to Yos.

VOTE: xvart


DGB: Hypothetically, if xvart were already dead, who would you vote for now? (I have my reasons for asking this. Trust me here.)

What don't you like, Nobody?

It looks like you're protecting Ludi. It just smacks of favoritism.

New question: Are you going to flake out?

Nope. Had a busy week, didn't occur to me to post V/LA until the day before I was going to catch up; all better now.

[Battousai]

^(concerning favoritism) That's what I thought too, but I don't see the point of it from scum. Why do you not like it?

[Mr. Flay]

This game is on a real-life timer, with each day of play being exactly equivalent to a day in the game world. In addition it will use bankable deadlines; Day 1 will last up to 21 days, but after that each Day will only add 14 days to the remaining time.

Sixth Vote Count of Day One:

xvart - 7 (DrippingGoofball, Cecily, Yosarian2, Seraphim, Fritzler, Nobody Special, ThAdmiral)
Cobblerfone - 6 (xvart, Flameaxe, Porochaz, Tanarin, ooba, bvoigt)
Magister Ludi - 2 (springlullaby, Battousai)
springlullaby - 2 (Herodotus, Zdenek)
Yosarian2 - 2 (Magister Ludi, populartajo)
Chronopie - 1 (RaudhrGarm)
Katsuki - 1 (Bunnylover)
ThAdmiral - 1 (Dry-fit)
ooba - 1 (Cobblerfone)

Not Voting: 2 (Chronopie, Katsuki)

With 25 voters, it will take 13 to lynch. Nightfall will occur no later than the end of June 13th, server time.

[populartajo]

WHY THE HELL ARE PEOPLE STILL VOTING COBBLERFONE?

[populartajo]

xvart, Flameaxe, Porochaz, Tanarin, ooba, bvoigt

In one phrase, why would ABR and Kinetic have picked Cobbler?

[Magister Ludi]

Battousai "I don't see how Ludi is, when all he is doing is trying to outguess the CR instead of trying to find people who are acting scummy."

think i've explained this before but I'll do it again, trying to predict the CR night zero move is half the battle here on day one. They need to pick someone hard to lynch but also someone that will help lead and define their cult in the subsequent days, and they would be more inclined to pick a powerful person in the beginning because no town roles can interact with them.

As for the second part, that is plainly false. It makes no sense to shoot of with a list of 7-8 scum reads when there are only 2 recruited people in this thread. I have actually detailed and outlined two very likely recruits whose play here does seem to conform to cult play, you, and Yos2.

Your play is similiar in many ways, both are laced with accusations of 'outguessing the CR' (wow, there happens to be a human being who is trying to make the optimal choice to win a game, and taking that into consideration is scummy? No.) and weak votes and reasoning I disagree with on several levels.

Casting a wide net of suspicion is pointless (as it helps town implode when It needs to be razor sharp), and is actually anti-town in and of itself. It also happens to be what you are doing.

[Battousai]

^
1) It is not, eliminating someone from being a suspect just because you don't think the CR would recruit them (which is why they would) is wrong.
2) "It makes no sense to shoot off with a list of 7-8 scum reads when there are only 2 recruited people in this thread" = "It makes no sense to shoot off with a list of 7-8 people who would be recruit candidates when there are only 2 recruited people in this thread" So the chances of getting scum today is low, so we should do nothing is basically what you are saying (though I know you don't mean it that way)

I'll say this one last time.... YOU CAN NOT OUTGUESS THE CR, IT IS CIRCULAR LOGIC. You say they would be more inclined to pick a powerful person who is hard to lynch and will help lead and define their cult. What if they thought you'd think that and went with a newish person or someone who gets lynched early a lot? Then you'd just eliminated the recruits and are now throwing your net on land instead of the small pond.

Please, can we lynch Ludi now???

[Yosarian2]

Really would like you to answer my question, Tajo. Why are you so keen on trying to get me to leave the confirmed scum alone?

As far as I can tell, there's nothing anti-town about me asking them questions. You attacking me and actually voting for that really seems odd, like you're either trying to fake a reason to suspect me, or else you're trying to prevent me from getting reactions from the cult recruiters.

[xvart]

I am leaving early tomorrow morning for Hawaii so I will be

V/LA tomorrow while traveling and possibly a day later depending on how we get settled and adjust to the time change

.

I plan to post again later tonight between packing.

[bvoigt]

xvart, Flameaxe, Porochaz, Tanarin, ooba, bvoigt

In one phrase, why would ABR and Kinetic have picked Cobbler?

WIFOM? I don't really know, but I'm going to trust scumhunting over setup speculation. And Cobbler has lied about his role, IMO.

[Tanarin]

UNvote

@Tajo: Easily overlooked

I originally had my vote on cobbler due to the whole him claiming unrecruitable out of nowhere. When he did that, I was thinking he may be scum trying to protect himself somehow. If he didn't claim that, I don't even think we would be talking about him at this point.

Question I have for the people who have played DGB before:

How hard is she to lynch?

I think ThAdmiral made a damn good point. Whoever is the one recruited would indeed be active, if not MORE active D1, Even if it draws them heat. Odds are we would be looking away from said person anyway. She already fits the active part by the way she is acting now, but if she also tends to get overlooked due to her mad ramblings D1, she could be a D1 recruit target. Personally, I think we should look at DGB at least a little before D1 is out.

[Albert B. Rampage]

OH NO HE DIDN'T

[Nobody Special]

^(concerning favoritism) That's what I thought too, but I don't see the point of it from scum. Why do you not like it?

I tend to not like anything too unusual. I'm rather reactionary.

[Dry-fit]

And I'd rather not see Ludi, in particular, pushed too hard, because he's a newbie and may look scummy even as a townie if he's pressured.

Okay, I think Yosarian might be the other recruit.

the

other

recruit.

Easy mode on?
UNVOTE: Spring
VOTE: Cobblerfone

yeah, easy mode on.

Vote: Herodotus

everyone, thoughts of this

recruiters, who of you picked hero and who of you picked yosa?

I thought Hero's vote was for a good enough reason. It is odd that he defends Ludi but not Cobbler even though Cobbler is obviously playing like a new player.

What were YOU hoping to accomplish with your question to the CRs tajo? I know it was tongue in cheek but Yos probably wasn't expecting a useful answer either.

NS, Dry-fit, Katsuki, RaudG are like delicious vig meat spilling lurking juice on the butcher's block.

NS first.

[Fritzler]

Are you scum? Do you want to be?

I'm not scum.

Let's look somewhere else, NS is clean guys.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Woah my sarcasm-o-meter is blowing up!

[Herodotus]

I'll say this one last time.... YOU CAN NOT OUTGUESS THE CR, IT IS CIRCULAR LOGIC. You say they would be more inclined to pick a powerful person who is hard to lynch and will help lead and define their cult. What if they thought you'd think that and went with a newish person or someone who gets lynched early a lot? Then you'd just eliminated the recruits and are now throwing your net on land instead of the small pond.

I still believe that would be an unnecessary risk. I don't know if I didn't explain it well before or you simply disagree, but I'll try once more.

If a CR chooses someone who plays very well as scum, that player has a chance of being able to talk their way out of being lynched, even if they take some attacks for being seen as a likely target.
If a CR chooses someone who doesn't play well as scum, that player may screw up and make a scumslip or be caught by people focusing on behavioural scumhunting.

So my position is still: If a newbie or known low-skilled player ends up being very, very scummy on day 1, then we lynch them, but the bar should be high.
And no one has been scummy enough to hit that bar so far.

Question I have for the people who have played DGB before:

How hard is she to lynch?

DrippingGoofball
Mafia Piñata

Incidentally, I said earlier that she and I have played together twice, but I wasn't counting the game in which she replaced in after I died. I've seen her lynched in 2 of those 3 games, though in the most recent, she was trying to be lynched.

I think ThAdmiral made a damn good point. Whoever is the one recruited would indeed be active, if not MORE active D1, Even if it draws them heat.

Lurking is not a town tell.

[springlullaby]

UNvote

@Tajo: Easily overlooked

I originally had my vote on cobbler due to the whole him claiming unrecruitable out of nowhere. When he did that, I was thinking he may be scum trying to protect himself somehow. If he didn't claim that, I don't even think we would be talking about him at this point.

Question I have for the people who have played DGB before:

How hard is she to lynch?

I think ThAdmiral made a damn good point. Whoever is the one recruited would indeed be active, if not MORE active D1, Even if it draws them heat. Odds are we would be looking away from said person anyway. She already fits the active part by the way she is acting now, but if she also tends to get overlooked due to her mad ramblings D1, she could be a D1 recruit target. Personally, I think we should look at DGB at least a little before D1 is out.

What is this post? It looks terribly like you are testing the waters to see whether a DGB lynch would be feasible while simultaneously trying to not wet your toes. If you want to "look at DGB", why not vote her?

FOS

@Magister Ludi

, do reply to my post addressed to you thank you.

@Herodotus

Why are you still voting me?

@Zdenek

Why are you voting me?

[Magister Ludi]

Is this them?

"My vote is on you because I think your speculations are pointless. Can you understand that I might think there are better way of finding scum? Do you think that I'm wrong?

Btw, I think your Battousai vote is OMGUS as hell."

Well, it's your opinion that speculation is pointless [which it really isn't. I think i've made my position on this clear enough, and people do agree with me]

I do agree with you that voting people doing anti-town actions is the usual probable way of finding scum. I've established that this is critical in conjecture with the first point.

And i'm not voting Batt, so I don't believe you can classify it as OMGUS. Regardless, if someone is doing anti-town actions or proposing logical arguments I find false or incorrect, I will call them out on it no matter where there vote happens to be. If it happens to be on me makes no bearing on whether my argument is correct and logically sound.

[springlullaby]

Btw, a comment on Kinetic's last post about DGB.

Kinetic is going to be a very dangerous tree stump - a far more threatening one than ABR so far who has been a little funny but mostly kinda meh (but I imagine ABR as Vincent Cassel and Kinetic as somekind of cheeseburger-american comix geek, so I do have a soft spot for ABR, anyway I digress).

What Kinetic did with his DGB post was to picture her as a poor player, and then creating the impression that she is leading the town.
What that kind of post may encourage is disdain for another player's playstyle.
This is very clever for cult to do because it is both bad for town morale, and good for generating non scum-hunting based antagonism.

1) Personal opinion of DGB's (or anyone's) playstyle (as opposed to play) should not be up to discussion, the only thing that is relevant to the game is whether you think someone is scum in this game, and whether you want to lynch them.
2) Everyone is responsible of their own vote.

Now I'm also, tempted to second guess DGB's alignment over Kinetic play here. But after consideration I don't think it's meaningful either way.

[Chronopie]

Limited Access

for the next couple weeks, study break leading to semester exams.

Just a heads up.

--

And the Cobber votes are precisely what I meant about we should be focusing on mid-tier players rather than vets or newbs. >.>

[Cobblerfone]

@

Ludi

:Please use the quote tags. Quotation marks don't make for easy reading especially if you leave out the player's name you're quoting.

Seraphim said he'd get to this on Saturday. What do we do? I'm going to wait for Ooba to respond to my vote before switching.

[DrippingGoofball]

If Cobbler was cruitscum, he'd be lurking harder right now.

[Zdenek]

@Zdenek Why are you voting me?

I think Cobbler is more scum than town at this moment, his claim does not make any sense as town, and I don't think anyone town, especially a newbie would claim that fast under very little pressure.

He is my default lynch today. I'm not in a hurry to remove my vote on Magister at this point though.

Spring 333: Question (to you or anyone else who may want to chime in on the whole thing): The cobble claim doesn't make sense from a town point of view, sure, but do you see any situation where it would make sense from a scum point of view any more than a town point of view?

I think it might be something I could have tried as an investigation proof scum. What with the lying low since the claim.
I need to look at his meta though.

Flameaxe's question was completely reasonable, but her answer completely dodged actually responding to the question, but instead posited a situation where Cobbler might have risked making a gambit with an unrecruitable claim.

[Katsuki]

WHY THE HELL ARE PEOPLE STILL VOTING COBBLERFONE?

THIS.

Neither ABR nor Kinetic are crazy enough to take cobbler D1.

Vig bait / no real tactical benefit for later days.