Wizards at the Sorcerers' Den - Endgame

[A Gaggle of Geese]

Okay, so I read Feysal's ISO and assumed he replaced in but he didn't this is ridiculous. The dude only has 6 bloody posts.

[Riceballtail]

Okay, so I read Feysal's ISO and assumed he replaced in but he didn't this is ridiculous. The dude only has 6 bloody posts.

Yeah, and they're accusing ME of lurking.

[A Gaggle of Geese]

Hey could summarise the case against RBT? I'm assuming it's not *just* low content like she implied in the above, haven't had a chance to discuss much on AIM with chess yet, so I'm hopping around trying to catch up in the best way I can, though I really only replaced in as a favour to chesskid anyway. Or just point me to a summary of the case, either will work.

[Riceballtail]

Boils down to "lurking" and "scumslip". The scumslip being that I predicted that there will be a (normal or modified) sk-type team, as there have been in the first two games.

[Zdenek]

Zdenek however, is making softly softly attacks on easy targets, which to me points at scum trying to not get too invested in a mis-lynch.
Beefster/Amrun for example.

I attacked Amrun out of that pair.

So that would be you calling Amrun an easier target than Beefster, not me.

No, it's not. I never thought that I was attacking weak targets. So that is pure B.S.

It's not that he was alarmist per se, but that he built up from a reasonable thing to an alarmist thing.
That he escalated his rhetoric with nothing from Icey that would have supported such an escalation.

Your reasoning here is garbage because you are trying to argue that Soben didn't build up from a reasonable statement to an alarmist one, which is patently false.

He went from: "Derp! Yeah! I don't have to read and can be lazy! Yeah! Screw actually reading anything carefully!" to a very in depth poster who has detailed theories and reads on different people. This was just over the course of about 4 RL days. It is a huge posting style flip and it bugs me. If we aren't going to lynch him, fine, but I don't like what I'm getting from him.

This is one of the worst reasons I have ever seen someone use to try to push a wagon (for the record, I have seen this argument used by scum in the past). Player plays badly, comes under pressure for it, improves, and scum not wanting to abandon their original case, uses this stupid reason to keep pushing their lynch.

Why does anyone have a town read on WC again?

[inHimshallibe]

WC's been town since the beginning of the game. That read won't change imo.

[inHimshallibe]

It is no coincidence that all three of the current competing wagons are on the ol' death list.

What do you mean by this? You think all 3 wagons are scum? That is incredibly unlikely.

Gotta get rid of the chaff before you find the good grain. If they're going to be a distraction, kill all the bastards and don't look back.

As for what I have against you.

[IceyCupcake]

Hey could summarise the case against RBT? I'm assuming it's not *just* low content like she implied in the above, haven't had a chance to discuss much on AIM with chess yet, so I'm hopping around trying to catch up in the best way I can, though I really only replaced in as a favour to chesskid anyway. Or just point me to a summary of the case, either will work.

Oh hai, yeah, she's wrong about my case on her. The case is specifically, that she's scum.

I'm going to assume you've played with RBT before. If you have, her MO is simple: She's abrasive as shit and lurks like hell. I'll grab a few games if you want. But she overwhelmingly takes no shit from no one and blatantly does not play the game. Both of these, fairly speaking, make her a general detriment to her team.

Unvote

Debating on which person gets it next, later after I do some isoing.

Survey says LMP is the winner for now. Soben still ranks high on my scumdar.

UNVOTE; VOTE:LMP

I will also always be on a wagon to lynch Chess. Always.

This is downright awful. Like more awful than average RBT.

She also generally has okay reads. But she's miserable at faking them. Soben, LMP, Amrun, and Gandalf? And she ONLY SHOWS UP TO VOTE HOP AND DEFEND HERSELF. Remember when I said lurking was a scum tell? Yeah. People who show up to randomly snipe every few days, vote hop, and defend themselves are NOT GOOD.

Then there's quotes:

Although if we are going to go after a lurker, I wouldn't pick RBT to go after. If memory calls correct, the last game with her she did the exact same thing (lurk hard) and still flipped town. I would at least let some kinda damage role take her out.
And I don't remember the other lurkers. Where is ABR by the way?

So we don't know what her alignment is, and you mention specifically it's really hard for you to determine her alignment, so we SHOULDN'T vig her?

Wut.

Wagons are savagely fast to get going around here. Except RBT which seems to languish.

Oh and Gandalf wagon is unacceptable. I'll reread Implosion, but offhand he has 38 content posts, many with content. RBT has 23 posts, which are all one or two liners. It's like the definition of scummy active lurking.

I'll ALWAYS lynch the person with shitty content over the person producing lots of content day 1 if it's at all close in scumminess. I WILL have a good idea of the content-filled poster's alignment on day 2 or 3. I will NOT have any idea of the active lurker's alignment, and RBT is scummy besides.

Will relook at the list of acceptable vig targets.

[LimMePls]

Null leaning town, I said. I later put him on my town list. How is that an attempt to keep a mislynch open? Also, you've been calling me town the entire game... now I say one thing and I'm at the very bottom of your list? How the hell does this one line warrant a change from your third-strongest town read to your strongest scum read? In fact, just 5 days ago (the last time before this post that you mentioned me) it was to ask Soben why he thought I was scum. If anything does, shouldn't this read as trying to keep a mislynch open? Turning literally on a dime on one of your apparently strong townreads, as a wagon is forming on him, to vote him and put him as your strongest scumread?

I called you town. Soben has pushed hard on that read, and I've conceded his points. Then I went V/LA and when I come back practically every post you make is scummy. And you wonder why you've gone to the bottom of the list? It's no great mystery.

[LimMePls]

@Icey: Were we supposed to vote you before voting someone else EACH TIME we vote, or only once per game day? In other words, should I unvote, vote you and revote?

[Amrun]

Faraday, about RBT:

RBT: Let me explain something to you. You are attacking me for "not reading the thread and not caring to fix my mistakes.". In reality, I made one small mistake and aplogized to you immediately after I realized.

You, on the other hand, have not read the thread closely enough to understand the following things: that the plan you "explained" to me was one that I originally proposed as an alternate to ABR's, and that other people are attacking me for reading the thread TOO carefully.

Furthermore, your other attack of me (OMGUS) is not at all a scumtell. And even if it were, you are more guilty of it than I am, just like you are obviously more guilty of not reading the thread and not caring to correct your mistakes. My vote is not on you, and I expressed suspicion of you before you ever expressed suspicion of me, further demonstrating that you are not reading the thread. I am also the largest wagon atm, so if expressing suspicion of someoene who suspects me is a scumtell, then I am in bigger trouble than is rational.

Your hypocrisy and feeble attempts at scumhunting until you hopped on the largest wagin for demonstrably poor reasons are what has earned you a spot in my top three. In fact, it has earned you number 1 spot.

Unvote; Vote Riceballtail

Call that OMGUS and see exactly how many shits I give. (Hint: none.)

Umad? Just tell us if you're wizard-scum or magekiller-scum now.

(PS - It is OMGUS. Also, it wasn't the largest wagon.)

Assuming it was OMGUS, even though it obviously wasn't as I mentioned you before you ever mentioned me, explain how that is a scumtell.

As for the largest wagon, I could have been clearer there, but you MADE it the largest wagon. It was a top contender and now it is in the place for first with a great number of people off the wagon who were once on or would go on, which the other 3-wagon does not have.

Nice job failing to address your own hypocrisies, thereby increasing them in number.

And thx 4 the scumslip. Nice to know there are two scumteams. I'm assuming you're a mage.

There are lots of smaller points besides these. Some have been mentioned by others, but here are some more:

-Someone asked her to elucidate her LMP scumread, and she referred them to a "brilliant" case already posted, which does not exist
-She attacked me in a really obviously opportunistic way
-Possible scumslip (at time of above post, I didn't know magekillers existed in previous games)
-When asked to give scumreads or expand on the 2 (count 'em) reads she has given in 50 pages, she downright refuses


In general, she arrives at her reads in a very fabricated manner and reads like scum bad at fake scumhunting.

[Soben]

I'll ALWAYS lynch the person with shitty content over the person producing lots of content day 1 if it's at all close in scumminess. I WILL have a good idea of the content-filled poster's alignment on day 2 or 3. I will NOT have any idea of the active lurker's alignment, and RBT is scummy besides.

Only difference is I can see RBT possibly flipping terribad town, but I can't see implosion flipping town.

[LimMePls]

^^This.

Plus, as I said earlier, the buildup to the RBT wagon doesn't sit right with me. The "zOMG how can you know 2 teams" stuff is phony as shit. Which basically makes it a policy lynch.

[Amrun]

That could have never happened and I'd still think RBT was scum.

[SGRaaize]

Plus, as I said earlier, the buildup to the RBT wagon doesn't sit right with me. The "zOMG how can you know 2 teams" stuff is phony as shit. Which basically makes it a policy lynch.

Alright, I promised myself I wouldn't talk anymore this day, but this is just bullshit.
Hear this: I am not gonna guess myself, here's what I know: 1) Beefster and Amrun don't seem partners. 2) They're both scummy. 3) I'm fine with lynching both of them, even though I would rather get Implosion. 4) This day has been taking way too long and I want to come to the juicy part where I get to fuck some shit up.

Not only that, but you are lacking reading comprehension, that logic was used towards Amrun and Beefster, not Implosion or RBT.

One more thing, to everyone saying "Its impossible for every single BW in here be Mafia". I don't give a shit, I'm gonna lynch everyone I think is scummy, I am not gonna make any guess about the setup.

I am Town -> I win when Mafia is dead -> I lynch Mafia -> I have no way to knowing who's Mafia for sure -> I try to scumhunt -> I come to my conclusions -> I hear everyone else's arguments -> I lynch and damage whoever I think is scum.

That's it, that's all I'm gonna do for now, and probably forever, considering claims are prohibited.

Deal with it.

[SGRaaize]

Ops, wait, nevermind, I got what you meant with "Two teams" now. Still, I noticed via ISO you FoS'd me before because I said "Well, I feel sorry for RBT, but I don't care", so the second half of my post still applies.

[IceyCupcake]

Really? His ISO says town to me.

#6, 12, 15 are town. 12 in particular where he lays out how beefster is scummy, but doesn't seem to have scum motivation, and therefore reads town is a VERY town chain of logic. Scum have no motivation to do that, especially if this is a multiscum game. It's also the same read I have on beefster, which makes me happy.

Whereas RBT is just screamingly dull and scummy to boot.

Vig targets I like so far:
Katy - 12 post ISO does not inspire confidence.
Bunnylover - meh, probably best of the lurkers
SnakePlissken - 13 post ISO is unacceptably short. Lots of fluff posts in those 13, which is hideous.
PeregrineV - WHO?!?
Feysal - NONONONONONONONONONONO

Other options: Mod is obviously a player, and probably who is killing who is claiming. Mod lynch not terrible idea.

[Amrun]

Mod as aplayer for that reason makes so much sense it's not even funny. :/

[Soben]

Mod as aplayer for that reason makes so much sense it's not even funny. :/

No, read:

""Leave it to me!" one of them said. "Me, Andrius the Vamp-" the poor featureless body hadn't even finished his speech when a gosthly hand appeared out of the jar and grabbed him and devoured in a matter of seconds.
"It seems we can't speak our names."
"Then, let's speak no more nonsense and start hunting those bastards!"
"Yeah" and so, the hunting game began.

Andrius, a vampire aligned with the sorcerers, was killed pregame."

Name claiming = Automatic death, it's the mechanics of the setup not mod as a player.

[SGRaaize]

I would feel safer if we also saw Bunnylover dying due to that

[Amrun]

But someone voted for the mod and it showed up in the vc.

Just sayin'.

[Soben]

Unvote, Vote: Magua

Lets test something.

[Amrun]

Good idea.

[A Gaggle of Geese]

I need to re-read RBT's play in context, I guess, cos most of the case just seems to be...she's bad, but I mean i've seen her as town lately in Magna's Ipod mafia...and she was pretty bad, so. Yeah.

Implo's early play looked decentish to me, guess I need to figure out what changed, I like inhim's town list for the most part though.

[Beefster]

Wow. I'm changing my mind on gandalf and RBT. They've pretty much switched places for me in just 2 pages.

gandalf looks pretty genuine to me due to some of his later posts.
RBT, even in just the last 2 pages, looks atypical and nervous.

unvote

I will hold off on my vote until after the vote count. I don't want to be hammering too early.
Should we coordinate some night lynches?

Call me an opportunist if you want, but that would be a wrong (yet valid) accusation. I legitimately just changed my mind. Like I said earlier, they're tough players to read. I made a mistake earlier.