Wizards at the Sorcerers' Den - Endgame

[IceyCupcake]

Other instructions:

Protective abilities ]should STRONGLY CONSIDER protecting one of the two claimed masons. As confirmed town, they have bullseyes painted on them, and scum are going to shoot eventually. WIFOM means you don't have to especially if the abilities function anything like "Prevent X damage" but it's a good idea to consider it. Living masons = good things.

Other than that, obviously do as you will.

PS: IPod Mafia was a Fate-scum show. Days took less than 48 hours. Keep this in mind.

[Riceballtail]

@Icey: Would you rather I bore you with page after page of wall posts? Concise is protown.

@Amrun: Caught scum is caught (being you). You also, for someone who "is having fun" in some posts and is "super serious" in others, seem to find the exact behavior in my posts scummy.

You decided that you didn't need to pay attention to who you were conversing with, and then go "oops I thought you were someone else" when you were making several horrible misrepresentations of my views.

The "scumslip" is using knowledge from past games. There's no reason to not expect it in this one.

I also never give scum report cards to tell them how they're doing. That's always true.

[SGRaaize]

There's a difference between being Conside and not saying anything

[Amrun]

I see no behavior in you that resembles my behavior. None.

And of course I was misrepresenting your views: I thought you were Beefster! It's not the same thing. When I post on my phone, it cuts off avatars usually and I made a mistake. I apologized for it.

I realized soon after that what I thought was a scumslip wasn't, really, but it doesn't matter, because I find you independently scummy. I was obviously accusing you of being scum before that for other reasons.

Refusing to give reads is not being pro-town.

RBT, is English your second language?

[Katy]

All right, catching up after the long weekend, which kind of swept me away.

Katy, why did you do the vote unvote icey thing twice?

Because from what they said, it seemed to me like they were asking for it to be done before every vote.

I'd like to give it a bit more time. I have a more neutral read on RBT atm. I'd like to see everyone's top scumpicks before compromising that far.

This is weird ... from your posting it seems you want Amrun dead, yet this reads as if you intend on just seeing who everyone else likes and picking a popular bandwagon to join.

Not reading imp's case against me. It's long, I'm town, and I have better things to do. I did see something about retroactive justification because I was looking for the part that Amrun referenced. I figured it was fairly obvious why I was voting for him. His posts were bad. When somebody is that obviously scummy, I usually don't bother justifying my votes.

Wow, this post sets off all sorts of alarm bells in my head.

- "I'm not going to respond to this because I have better things to do." [proceeds to not do anything]
- "Oh wait but I am going to respond to this one part because I can actually think of a response to it. I have no defense for the rest."
- "I voted for HIM because HE was so obvious scum."
-"Who?"
- "Oh um ... all of them"

I need to point out as I have just realised I haven't done yet. I will be V/LA Every weekend it is also a bank holiday in the UK which means I won't be around much today either. I can't believe we still don't have a lynch yet?!

Unvote, vote Katsuki

SERIOUSLY? You can't be scum and be this completely clueless ... can you?

Katy - 12 post ISO does not inspire confidence.

It was a holiday weekend, I haven't posted in a couple of days because I've been having a fun holiday - it's the first time I've gotten two days in a row off of work for months. Not to mention that unlike some players, I only post when I have actual content to provide. I would prefer if someone judged not by the number of posts I have but the content of them. I love mafia and can't ever stay away for long, but I am also an adult with both career and home responsibilities. I generally set aside time to post once a day, and can't really guarantee more, but I devote more time when I am able. I think my posts are pretty substantial though, enough for you to judge whether you actually think I'm town or scum. The kind of vigging you suggest is for people so lurky there's no way to tell.

The way implosion defends himself makes me think he's town.

Lastly, I am actually in agreement with this. I have a long way to go to make it all the way through this thread but I'm suddenly not as thrilled with an implo lynch as I was before. Especially considering some of the alternatives. In particular this one:

UNVOTE: unvote
VOTE: vote Icey
UNVOTE: unvote
VOTE: vote gandalf

I agree that Gandalf doesn't strike me as quite as vocal as he normally does, plus when he responds to a case against him, he picks out one point he thinks he has a response to and then has some excuse for not responding to anything else. I am used to a much more aggressive, vocal and prominent Gandalf as town.

I have a hard time reading RBT on day one as they seem to always read scummy. I am unsure enough that if the lynch swings that way I will join it, but I am also unsure enough not to just jump right on.

Also, I thought Beefster/Amrun was a town fight, but Beefster's latest posting is making me uneasy. I'm starting to get a gut scum read there.

I'm still not expecting the mod lynch to pan out. As far as I know, the advice against claiming has been in every game, and it seemed to me that Snow_Bunny was just enforcing it more strongly this time. Still, testing it out is a good way to go, otherwise speculation will continue popping up. Especially from scum players looking for a distraction to give the town. If we're going to explore this avenue, might as well do it now and put it to rest one way or the other.

[gandalf5166]

Re: Katy: I was originally talking about Beefster(I think). I was just being irritating when I said all of them.

And this game is boring me, so hence me not being as vocal. Back to the implosion case......

[gandalf5166]

Re: 22-29: For the last fucking time: I'm not making an assumption. IM LOOKING AT THE FUCKING RULES
Re: 30-31:I voted for Pine for not posting 33 minutes after he posted, yes. What did he say in that post? OH RIGHT, THAT HE WASNT GOING TO POST ANYMORE. I don't see how waiting a couple of hours would have made any more sense. And the fact that he started posting again doesn't change the fact that he tried to get away with not posting. And in fact, the fact that he posted again makes it all the worse. It smacks of scum realizing that it's not going to work and trying to minimize the damage.
Re: 33: He had. He had since given up on it, but like I said, that only strengthened my case. And I already explained why it's scummy.
Re: 35: Are you really trying to act like adding "as normal" onto the end of a sentence is scummy? And yes, it was without justification. I'm not about to tell you why, either. It's my business, not yours.
Re: 54: For the umpteenth time: get over it. I almost never justify my votes, and if I do, I do in fact usually do it when people ask.
Re: 56-58: "null leaning scum" is not a scumread. The only one of those three that applies is the IC point, and I guess I got you confused with someone else or something. I don't know. And adding "as normal" onto the end does NOT qualify as misrepping S_B's rules.

And I just want to ask one thing: Why is retroactive justification scummy? Looking at the followup now.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I'm really bored with this game.

[SGRaaize]

Are we there yet?

[SGRaaize]

Are we there yet?

[SGRaaize]

Are we there yet?

[SGRaaize]

Are we there yet?

[SGRaaize]

1'm s0 1337

[LimMePls]

Really? His ISO says town to me.

#6, 12, 15 are town. 12 in particular where he lays out how beefster is scummy, but doesn't seem to have scum motivation, and therefore reads town is a VERY town chain of logic. Scum have no motivation to do that, especially if this is a multiscum game. It's also the same read I have on beefster, which makes me happy.

Whereas RBT is just screamingly dull and scummy to boot.

Vig targets I like so far:
Katy - 12 post ISO does not inspire confidence.
Bunnylover - meh, probably best of the lurkers
SnakePlissken - 13 post ISO is unacceptably short. Lots of fluff posts in those 13, which is hideous.
PeregrineV - WHO?!?
Feysal - NONONONONONONONONONONO

Other options: Mod is obviously a player, and probably who is killing who is claiming. Mod lynch not terrible idea.

ICE ANSWER MY FUCKING QUESTION PLEASE!

[WrathChild]

@zdnek: So I was trying to push the beefster wagon and vote someone else in the process? I said it was something that bothered me about beefster and I wanted to note it and probably would have voted if we didn't need to narrow our focus as we are doing. I think beef has been going back and forth to the playstyle that he feels will be best received by the masses. I am not pushing the wagon on him yet, just made an observation. Your misrep is noted.

[implosion]

Implosion: Voting Soben (LOL)

Early RVSish vote that I forgot to unvote when i voted gandalf. I thought I had been voting gandalf.

All these show that;

1. Implosion doesn't like setup speculation however is perfectly fine trying something to "See what happens" even if it leads to town-looking town players dying at night.
2. He understands that redirection mean that we're less likely to hit scum yet still wants to create a mass-target system.
3. He understands and states that lurking is a null-tell however still wants to push for lurkers to get targetted rather then his actual reads.

1. It will also tell us a lot about the setup if it does so. Again, it's a moot point, and I think the best move is to try it and see what happens. If it fails miserably, we don't do it again.
2. There's no guarantee of redirection, and even if there is redirection, it could be limited-use or a redirecter type redirection, as opposed to a bus driver type.
3. I have not pushed for lurkers to be targeted. I stated at one point that I thought it might be a good idea. I have since become ambivalent about the best plan of action with regards to who to target.
Basically, I'm okay with doing the plan tonight and seeing what happens in the morning.

[Katy]

People I would vote for (besides my present vote) in order of preference: Beefster, Dry-fit, RBT.

RBT is my last choice to switch to, especially considering two of my top lynch choices are already voting for her. Still, I am willing to vote for any of these, even RBT who I give at worst 50/50 odds of being scum, to get on with the day because we are coming to a standstill and people are getting bored, understandably. Our early leads didn't pan out, we are all being pretty boring, and presumably we are all excited for sorcerous powers to start flying back and forth. We need to move to a consensus somehow, so people who are on one-off wagons should probably move to a bigger one if we want to progress.

Top three as of last vote count are Gandalf, RBT and implosion.

[Snow_Bunny]

Votecount

1- CryMeARiver

[Healthy]

(1) - Bunnylover
2- gandalf5166

[Healthy]

(3) - implosion, Riceballtail, Katy
3- A Gaggle of Geese

[Healthy]

(0) -
4- Albert B. Rampage

[Healthy]

(0) -
5- Riceballtail

[Healthy]

(9) - Dryfit, gandalf5166, Amrun, ABR, PeregrineV, SGRaaize, WrathChild, inHimshallibe, AGOG
6- Katy

[Healthy]

(0)
7- Bunnylover

[Healthy]

(0) -
8- IceyCupcake

[Healthy]

(0)
9- Amrun

[Healthy]

(0) -
10- Dry-fit

[Healthy]

(0) -
11- SnakePlissken

[Healthy]

(0) -
12- WrathChild

[Healthy]

(0) - ,
13- Soben

[Healthy]

(1) - SnakePlissken
14- Beefster

[Healthy]

(1) - ManaKu
15- PeregrineV

[Healthy]

(0) -
16- BabySpice

[Healthy]

(1) - Zdenek,
17- LynchMePls

[Healthy]

(0) -
18- Zdenek

[Healthy]

(1) - BabySpice
19- Mana_Ku

[Healthy]

(0) -
20- inHimshallibe

[Healthy]

(1) - Feysal
21- SGRaaize

[Healthy]

(0) -
22- implosion

[Healthy]

(2) - CryMeARiver, LynchMePls,
23- Feysal

[Healthy]

(0) -

Not voting (3): IceyCupcake, Soben, Beefster

With 23 alive, it takes 12 to lynch.

Deadline is on June 9th at midnight (GMT -5)

Note: I swear, one of you hydras post again with any of your heads' account and blood will be spilled. /rant. But, honestly, please be more careful before posting.

Note2: A Gaggle of Geese or whatever their name is replace chesskid immediately.

[CryMeARiver]

@MOD

Feysal 2011-05-25 18:55:58 7 days 2 hours 6

Feysal 2011-05-25 18:55:58 7 days 2 hours 6

Feysal 2011-05-25 18:55:58 7 days 2 hours 6

Feysal 2011-05-25 18:55:58 7 days 2 hours 6

Feysal 2011-05-25 18:55:58 7 days 2 hours 6

Feysal 2011-05-25 18:55:58 7 days 2 hours 6

Feysal 2011-05-25 18:55:58 7 days 2 hours 6

Feysal 2011-05-25 18:55:58 7 days 2 hours 6

Feysal 2011-05-25 18:55:58 7 days 2 hours 6

[Feysal]

Feysal's avoiding the game? He's fuckin' scum then, he HATES being scum and gets no enjoyment from it. /haven't read the thread but a quick glance shows me he's been around.

I indeed don't get enjoyment out of being scum, however my absence has been for different reasons. I spent last week in catchup hell in a game I replaced into, considerably longer than I thought it would take, and found myself unable to keep up here. Something similar happened with the recently ended Cold War Mafia, and you can check for yourself how well my lynch in that game turned out. It happened there, it happened again here, I'm not proud of it but that's what it is.

I suppose I should've replaced out when I started getting into trouble, but knowing that my other games were small and likely to be slow, I expected I'd be able to pick up my game here when I was done. That, and a replacement player would have even more to read up on than me.

Anyway, I've received my prod, I'm reading what I've missed, and I don't foresee any complications that could cause me to flake out like that again.

No need to spam the thread any more with how long I was inactive, the prod was sent a while ago.

[Riceballtail]

Possible scumslip (at time of above post, I didn't know magekillers existed in previous games)

I realized soon after that what I thought was a scumslip wasn't, really

So which one is it?

Waffling.

Scum.

Can't keep their story straight.

Lynch.

[Snow_Bunny]

@MOD

Feysal 2011-05-25 18:55:58 7 days 2 hours 6

Feysal 2011-05-25 18:55:58 7 days 2 hours 6

Feysal 2011-05-25 18:55:58 7 days 2 hours 6

Feysal 2011-05-25 18:55:58 7 days 2 hours 6

Feysal 2011-05-25 18:55:58 7 days 2 hours 6

Feysal 2011-05-25 18:55:58 7 days 2 hours 6

Feysal 2011-05-25 18:55:58 7 days 2 hours 6

Feysal 2011-05-25 18:55:58 7 days 2 hours 6

Feysal 2011-05-25 18:55:58 7 days 2 hours 6

I've already prodded Feysal!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yesterday, in fact. If he doesn't answer by tomorrow, I'll have him replaced. Now, please, chill.

[CryMeARiver]

@MOD

Feysal 2011-05-25 18:55:58 7 days 2 hours 6

Feysal 2011-05-25 18:55:58 7 days 2 hours 6

Feysal 2011-05-25 18:55:58 7 days 2 hours 6

Feysal 2011-05-25 18:55:58 7 days 2 hours 6

Feysal 2011-05-25 18:55:58 7 days 2 hours 6

Feysal 2011-05-25 18:55:58 7 days 2 hours 6

Feysal 2011-05-25 18:55:58 7 days 2 hours 6

Feysal 2011-05-25 18:55:58 7 days 2 hours 6

Feysal 2011-05-25 18:55:58 7 days 2 hours 6

I've already prodded Feysal!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yesterday, in fact. If he doesn't answer by tomorrow, I'll have him replaced. Now, please, chill.

He answered the very next post haha, you're losin yo mind S_B! Stay classy (San Diego).

[CryMeARiver]

Possible scumslip (at time of above post, I didn't know magekillers existed in previous games)

I realized soon after that what I thought was a scumslip wasn't, really

So which one is it?

Waffling.

Scum.

Can't keep their story straight.

Lynch.

He literally said in the second post "what I thought was a scumslip". I'm not particularly fond of Amrun this game, but seriously? Weak.

[Riceballtail]

Not as weak as your reason to vote me CMAR.