Open 302: JUNGLE REPUB nope game over! Party time!

[zMuffinMan]

@Regfan,

I believe he's an evil sheep mainly due to the interactions that occured between Cjdrum and himself however ignoring their interactions I can see his play being understandable for a werewolf - that being attempting to stay out of the limelight and slide through the game.

So do you think a mafia lynch today is a good thing?

@zMuffin, do you still believe there's a linkage between Wicked and Hez. Yes or no.

Ever since I originally pointed it out, Hez has done nothing but call me (and MoI) werewolves, and Wicked has done nothing but quote things from pages back and respond to them a week later. There's nothing to increase my suspicion that there is a link between them, but I kind of expected that to happen after I pointed it out.

I think Hez is a werewolf and I do think Wicked is likely his partner. I'm much less confident in my Wicked read, though - it's mostly based on his interaction with Hez D1.


@hf

Re: the VCA, to put it simply, your VCA doesn't "support" your suspicions, it just makes sense if you're right. And it would make sense with almost any other suspicions you have.

I disagree. I think it does support my suspicions. Yes...it could support other views. I do not think it is of value only if I am right (thought that would help) I think there are things that can be derived regardless of my opinion. One being the fact that Magna and DK were the only players on the Emp and Twisted wagons when they were at their peaks. Also...could you respond to this,

@zMM...<snip> What are your thoughts on the votecount as illustrated in post 601? Take away the unconfirmed red and greens I have coded red or green based on my "presupposed conclusions" and give me your take.

My first problem with you saying it "supports" your suspicions is that you just slotted 4 scum reads into it and made your suspicions fit the VCA (you didn't actually look at possible partners or who is more likely a werewolf or mafia before your VCA).

My second problem with you saying it "supports" your suspicions is that it really doesn't support your suspicions more than anyone else's.

As for your #601, what exactly are you asking here? Do you mean #600? I thought I'd given my thoughts on your VCA.

[zMuffinMan]

ebwop: quote fail

Re: the VCA, to put it simply, your VCA doesn't "support" your suspicions, it just makes sense if you're right. And it would make sense with almost any other suspicions you have.

I disagree. I think it does support my suspicions. Yes...it could support other views. I do not think it is of value only if I am right (thought that would help) I think there are things that can be derived regardless of my opinion. One being the fact that Magna and DK were the only players on the Emp and Twisted wagons when they were at their peaks. Also...could you respond to this,

@zMM...<snip> What are your thoughts on the votecount as illustrated in post 601? Take away the unconfirmed red and greens I have coded red or green based on my "presupposed conclusions" and give me your take.

[HezLucky]

I think Hez is a werewolf and I do think Wicked is likely his partner. I'm much less confident in my Wicked read, though - it's mostly based on his interaction with Hez D1.

Of course you do. It's the most convenient thing for you to think I'm a werewolf, because that's what we're lynching today.

Let me guess -- you killed my #1 town read, and want to frame it on me. It's garbage like this that makes it obvious that Magna/Muffin are DA WOLVES.

still just gonna sit here while the town finds a way to lose the game

[zMuffinMan]

Aww. You brought up NK WIFOM originally, and now you're sulking that you were framed. How cute.

[HezLucky]

enough chat with you. talking to scum won't get me anywhere.

oh remaining townies wherever you are.
we are few and far between
we must band together and rid ourselves
of dirty dirty scum
muffin and magna
and whoever the two others are

i could solve this game
but it would be meaningless
as my vote is only one

i need you all to band together
as half the remaining are scum
if the town does not play well
we stand no chance to get out alive

to vote or not to vote
that is the question
whether tis nobler in the mind to go after guaranteed scum
when you cannot convince anyone of your position
alas, poor horatio, i hardly knew ye

nevertheless, everyone has their reads
and it is pretty hard to be wrong
when half of the people in this game
have win cons that are town-non

despite this all
your scumdar is crap
take it from me
i can carry you on my back
but it requires some trust
and some potential sheep
if you want to win this game
you'd be advised to go without a peep

vote for magna or muffin
2011



--- the emo poet, who doesn't expect to be listened to at all today, and will be saying he told you so once the game is finished

[DeityKabuto]

enough chat with you. talking to scum won't get me anywhere.

oh remaining townies wherever you are.
we are few and far between
we must band together and rid ourselves
of dirty dirty scum
muffin and magna
and whoever the two others are

i could solve this game
but it would be meaningless
as my vote is only one

i need you all to band together
as half the remaining are scum
if the town does not play well
we stand no chance to get out alive

to vote or not to vote
that is the question
whether tis nobler in the mind to go after guaranteed scum
when you cannot convince anyone of your position
alas, poor horatio, i hardly knew ye

nevertheless, everyone has their reads
and it is pretty hard to be wrong
when half of the people in this game
have win cons that are town-non

despite this all
your scumdar is crap
take it from me
i can carry you on my back
but it requires some trust
and some potential sheep
if you want to win this game
you'd be advised to go without a peep

vote for magna or muffin
2011



--- the emo poet, who doesn't expect to be listened to at all today, and will be saying he told you so once the game is finished

I am one of the last few VT's and my vote goes on neil.

[Regfan]

My point was that you seem to be discrediting my VCA based the fact it incorporates my pre-VCA reads (which I can totally understand)...but you agree with 2/3rds of my town reads (or 1/2 if we take out the FMPOV confirmed town status). Do you see any scum indicators (ie top suspects) in the votecounts listed? Also, I don't usually give my town reads. I especially don't make a habit of making town cases for them. I focus on finding scum. The town read/view I have towards players is more a case of others being more suspect. And with only eight players remaining...giving my top four scum reads and excluding myself sort of explicitly reveals who my town reads are. The only way I would give reasoning on a town read was if it was a rock solid town tell/indicator.

If the point of the VCA is just to reaffirm your reads to yourself there is literally no point posting it, if you attempt to influence other plays in believing your conclusions it's key and crucial that you explain how you got to your conclusions, ie. Explaining your town-reads in detail even if you dislike doing so normally.

So do you think a mafia lynch today is a good thing?

Not what I said at all but if it had to come down to lynching someone I was sure was a scum faction and someone I thought was either town or werewolf I would pick the first one every time.

Hezlucky, the song and dance over lynching MoI and Muffin is pointless if you continue to refrain from posting any reasoning attached to it.

[zMuffinMan]

I know you didn't say you wanted a mafia lynch. It was just a general question because you seemed pretty unsure about what you think neil is.

Who are your town-or-werewolf reads?

[zMuffinMan]

Also what do you think of Wicked's reasoning for thinking neil is mafia?

[Regfan]

Who are your town-or-werewolf reads?

HavingFitz and Deity.

Also what do you think of Wicked's reasoning for thinking neil is mafia?

They're mostly a regurgitation of the reasons I stated earlier today.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Hezlucky’s latest serious of posts expands on a comment made by Regfan ( I think it was him ) regarding Hez’s play. 671, 672, 677 and 679 all basically are active lurking fodder where he basically repeats over and over that he’s right. Note in not one of these posts does he actually push his ‘suspects’. They all feel exceedingly like scum who is comfortable that Neil is going to be the lynch so he doesn’t want to rock the boat by being the driving force behind moving the lynch from someone he knows he is not aligned with. That's scum motivated play.

My VCA says that one of Hez and Neil is likely a Werewolf. At this juncture I’d be willing to vote Hez if Neil isn’t the lynch today. The only reason I didn’t want to push him earlier in the Day was the relational tells that said he was Evil Sheep. Now that the VC Analysis tells me he is unlikely to be Evil Sheep he's back on the table as a viable lynch for me.

UNVOTE: Neil

One of Neil or Hez will be getting my vote when I recast it.

I agree with Regfan and disagree with Wicked on the theory that successful scum-hunting doesn’t lead to an increased chance of being NKed – a single game does not disprove a generally strong relationship. Especially in games like this one where there are no Town PRs to hunt.

--

Unfortunately this doesn't work as well as five years ago, as I no longer have a meta. Or else you'd just FOLLOW THE HEZ and lynch some scum.

I was waiting to see this post. The “I joined in 2005 so I know I’m a better player than you Newbs” post.

He’s been calling it laughable all day that he has a Meta to rely on. Yet look at what he says here – that his Meta used to be ‘Super-Scum Hunter 9000’.

Let me guess -- you killed my #1 town read, and want to frame it on me. It's garbage like this that makes it obvious that Magna/Muffin are DA WOLVES.

Please elaborate – was LMP your Number 1 Town read? And how is it framing since you were one of LMP's scum reads?

[Wickedestjr]

Mod: Unfortunately, I'm going to be V/LA this weekend. Very limited access Friday, no access Saturday, and slightly limited access Sunday.

[Wickedestjr]

Two things:
1. I think I'm going to

Vote: havingfitz

. I suspect him almost as much as I suspect neil, but I think HF's more likely to be a Werewolf.
2. I'm starting to think Regfan is mafia.

More later...

[Wickedestjr]

There's nothing to defend there because your attack has no merit.

Okay... why not defend yourself by explaining why my attack has no merit?

Where is your argument for me being scum there, now that you've 'conceded' the original argument?

The reasons I still suspect you:
1. The 'links' you've pointed out connecting HezLucky and I revolve around very weak/invalid reasoning.
2. In response to several/most of my arguments you have dismissed them as false without explaining why.
3. On day 1, once I made it clear I was convinced in my points against you, you attacked me over something that I had said a while ago. Furthermore, you tried to, with invalid reasoning, make me look hypocritical for this attack instead of defending yourself.
4. You are guilty of a lot of IIoA and misrep.
5. You tried to use meta to support your case against a person when that player has never been scum.
6. You are guilty of several inconsistencies.

Talked about them here

In the game you linked, there weren't a lot of walls posted. Not a good choice for comparison. Strengthens my last point against you above.

Because there was a slight possibility that werewolves would gambit and keep him alive until D2 (if they thought Emp had a low chance of hitting a werewolf).

Then why the heck were you arguing with me? Earlier you said this:

It was perfectly logical, because only a VI-werewolf or a really-arrogant-werewolf would let the seer get a check off. Gambling like that isn't worth it just on the off-chance that you may be able to push a lynch on him the next day.

+Scumpoints for this blatant inconsistency.

@Everybody else- Thoughts on this inconsistency?

Because it's a lie that you were using to push a baseless point against me. The lie in itself wasn't scummy; the fact you were lying while trying to use it against me is.

This is BS and it makes no sense. I've caught you. This is inconsistent with what you said earlier:

What happened was you brought up a really old post and said you had a problem with it. I asked why you didn't mention it earlier. You said you did. I called bullshit because you didn't.

So no, I'm not attacking you for an old post,

I'm attacking you for lying about what you said you did.

[Wickedestjr]

Havingfitz’s reaction to the prod in 597 is suspect.

Explain.

Why should the real Seer counterclaim Day 2 if they don’t have a Guilty. If they do sure. Otherwise it’s outing themselves for no reason.

As I have addressed – you can’t provide a realistic scenario where a claimed Seer survives where they are not a Wolf. In fact in this game Empking, who played very scummy Day 1 and could have been a viable lynch had he not scanned a Wolf, was not left alive on the ‘off-chance’ he didn’t hit a Wolf or was fake-claiming Mafia.'

The real seer wouldn't have had to counterclaim day 2. They would counterclaim when it was massclaim time or if they caught both werewolves. Also, the seer might not have ever had to claim. Their death would have confirmed Empking was lying. Also, you are ignoring the game I linked. I'm not saying it's likely Empking would survive, but my point is that it wasn't 100% guaranteed that the werewolves would see him as the best option for a kill.

I wanted to see DK’s reaction to further direct pressure. His backing off to my questioning and vote aligns with my ‘DK is probably scum’ theory.

Then why did you switch your vote?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Explain.

Because there is no reason to have any sort of violent reaction to being prodded as Town. Add in the “Why didn’t you prod Regfan” bit (which I find a mild scum-tell) and bingo – there you go.

The real seer wouldn't have had to counterclaim day 2. They would counterclaim when it was massclaim time or if they caught both werewolves. Also, the seer might not have ever had to claim. Their death would have confirmed Empking was lying. Also, you are ignoring the game I linked. I'm not saying it's likely Empking would survive, but my point is that it wasn't 100% guaranteed that the werewolves would see him as the best option for a kill.

We are going to have a difference of opinion here that is not going to change. I believe with 100% certainty that any Seer who survives the Night is going to be fake-claiming scum and the best course of Town action is to lynch said scum. You don’t.

We’ve come to what is effectively a MD discussion and I think that signals the end of the usefulness of it here.

Then why did you switch your vote?

Because CJdrum was ‘certified scum’ (as I stated in 466) and was a better lynch for that reason (the switch came in 473).

[DeityKabuto]

Moi, you questioned me?

[Umbrage]

Vote Count:

neil1113 (2) - Regfan, DeityKabuto
HezLucky (1) - zMuffinMan
MagnaofIllusion (1) - HezLucky
DeityKabuto (1) - havingfitz
havingfitz (1) - Wickedestjr

Not Voting: neil1113, MagnaofIllusion

Unless another strong wagon is formed soon and we're heading toward a lynch, I'll be setting a deadline.

[zMuffinMan]

@Wicked,

Arguing with you is funny. You say that I'm scummy for not explaining something, but you call everything a misrepresentation, an inconsistency or IIoA without explaining how it actually is one of those things and why it's scummy.

1. The 'links' you've pointed out connecting HezLucky and I revolve around very weak/invalid reasoning.
2. In response to several/most of my arguments you have dismissed them as false without explaining why.
3. On day 1, once I made it clear I was convinced in my points against you, you attacked me over something that I had said a while ago. Furthermore, you tried to, with invalid reasoning, make me look hypocritical for this attack instead of defending yourself.
4. You are guilty of a lot of IIoA and misrep.
5. You tried to use meta to support your case against a person when that player has never been scum.
6. You are guilty of several inconsistencies.

1. No. None of the links I pointed out are invalid or weak. I don't care how much 'reasoning' you think you had behind any of the votes that looked like possible chainsaws, they're still links.
2. lol
3. lol
4. no
5. Oh, got me. I must be scum.
6. no

In the game you linked, there weren't a lot of walls posted. Not a good choice for comparison. Strengthens my last point against you above.

Oh, right. All the differences in his meta are negated because there weren't a lot of spam walls. Damn.

+Scumpoints for this blatant inconsistency.

This is inconsistent with what you said earlier

lol

[HezLucky]

Because there is no reason to have any sort of violent reaction to being prodded as Town. Add in the “Why didn’t you prod Regfan” bit (which I find a mild scum-tell) and bingo – there you go.

Fix your meta MoI. It's awful. This is more for after the game, but I was extremely mad when I got prodded by the mod because I've spent the last however many months playing this game and developing my reads, and I would be very upset if I had to leave it for a non-game related reason. And I am town. (This is for after the game when you can revisit this point)

Arguing with you is funny. You say that I'm scummy for not explaining something, but you call everything a misrepresentation, an inconsistency or IIoA without explaining how it actually is one of those things and why it's scummy.

Wicked wrote:
1. The 'links' you've pointed out connecting HezLucky and I revolve around very weak/invalid reasoning.
2. In response to several/most of my arguments you have dismissed them as false without explaining why.
3. On day 1, once I made it clear I was convinced in my points against you, you attacked me over something that I had said a while ago. Furthermore, you tried to, with invalid reasoning, make me look hypocritical for this attack instead of defending yourself.
4. You are guilty of a lot of IIoA and misrep.
5. You tried to use meta to support your case against a person when that player has never been scum.
6. You are guilty of several inconsistencies.

1. No. None of the links I pointed out are invalid or weak. I don't care how much 'reasoning' you think you had behind any of the votes that looked like possible chainsaws, they're still links.
2. lol
3. lol
4. no
5. Oh, got me. I must be scum.
6. no

More like.

1. They were all invalid, weak and garbage. You were reaching so much that I could just as easily come up with links on any two players (though why I would want to is beyond me - it's scum motivated) by stretching as much as you did.
2. You don't appreciate irony, do you?
3. See #2
4. Yes. You are incredibly guilty of it.
5. So you admit that your meta argument on me is crap?
6. "Where?" would have been a better and more credible response to this.

[havingfitz]

Regfan's aggressive pushing of havingfitz is noted. Havingfitz's townreads are very, very solid. Don't lose the game for everyone, regfan.

1. Appealing to Fear. Scumtastic.
2. Buddying to havingfitz noted.
3. Underlying assumption that Reg if Town from Hez noted.

I agree with all the points above.

Like I’ve said…I have examples where someone ignoring one thread while being active in another was a town. In fact…I think most of the times I have encountered this situation it HAS been town.

And I have examples of Scum doing it FAR more than Town. I find it a strong scum-tell personally.

FAR more…wow…that’s impressive. I have a hard enough time keeping up in the games I’m playing so I’ll pass on dragging this point out any further. That plus I don’t think it proves anything to drag out as it only takes one case of it not being the case…which I have seen more than once.

I would argue that you DO need statistical analysis when making over the top assertions to support your suspicions on someone.

Well where is the strong statistical analysis support for all your ‘strong’ personal tells then? Those are just as ‘over the top’ as anything I’ve said.

I don’t need strong statistical support for saying I’ve seen something occur before. I do think quantifying a statement with “OVERWHELMING” like you have does deserve proof. It’s just exaggeration without it.

Anyone who elects to bail on a game based on your ISO 46 above has no business playing mafia. If you really think your ISO 46 scared Sloth away I can only shake my head in disbelief. Your comment is hardly a damning indictment on Sloth.

Your ISO 49 came AFTER Sloth has went AWOL.

You can not accuse someone of being AWOL for something you say is a RESULT of him going AWOL. You are really reaching with the (and I paraphrase) “Sloth bailed because he was under so much pressure” theory.

The bolded is an ABSOLUTE LIE!

Sloth requested replacement at post 496. My ISO 49 came at post 444. This is before his request for replacement.

It’s not a lie. Exaggeration again by you. And I like how you call it a lie and then proceed to prove that you suspected him before he left. Why would you consider Sloth’s post 496 as his going AWOL? It was his stretch of not posting in here prior to requesting replacement that constitutes his AWOL and which started your suspicion of him. His last post prior to requesting replacement was Post 416. You start calling him out on his absence in Post 473. THIS equates to you putting pressure on Sloth for not posting in the game. He was not avoiding the game BECAUSE of pressure…the pressure was coming AFTER he stopped posting. I do not see any suspicions of Sloth on your part prior to Post 473 other than to indicate (in Post 319) Sloth, along with confirmed town Caboose and probtown Wicked, would most likely be scum IF Emp flipped scum. Way to MISREP a situation.

I’ve never asserted that I ‘caused’ Sloth to not post in thread and then replace out. You are fabricating that in an attempt to straw-man my position. He was under suspicion by more than just me.

Fact – Sloth had some suspicion in this game Day 2.
Fact – Sloth actively posted in other threads while avoiding this thread and eventually replaced out while staying active in other threads.

I never said you ‘caused’ Sloth to not post and then replace out. MISREP. Anyone interested in this misrep by you can read my Post 582 for the truth. And here are some of your comments regarding Sloth suspicion…

The suspicion isn’t that he was lurking. Let’s be clear. It’s that he was actively posting in other games while not posting here.

I do know it doesn’t preclude them from being Town.

However it is OVERWHELMINGLY more likely to come from Scum than Town when said player is under suspicion (which Sloth was from LMP).

Spinning it as ‘bored Townie’ is WIFOM.

I disagree that Sloth wasn’t under suspicion. You ignore the fact that before the shift to CJdrum I had particularly pointed out the Sloth’s behavior was suspect.

As for your Facts…the first one is weak and applies mostly to suspicions raised AFTER Sloth’s last post before asking to replace out. As for your second Fact…it is true. So? We have established that both town and scum are likely to do this. And you say 'avoid'...I say 'ignored.' They have different connotations with you choosing the more suspect choice of words.

And yes…when people vote someone out of the blue without any reasoning (or without reasons I can perceive in the context of other posts/conversations) I find it suspicious. I just finished a game with Faraday where I attacked him for this very reason, ended up backing off, and lost to Faraday scum. So that is two personal tells I have fell victim to that you are waving off.

So you significant personal tell is based of a single game? Hardly a statistically valid tell then. Have you ever played with Faraday as Town?

You seem more than happy to wave off my ‘personal tells’ as Null. Why shouldn’t I be able to do the same with yours?

MISREP! I did not call it a significant tell. Referencing specific examples do not require statistics. Saying something OVERWHELMINGLY indicates something (ie scum alignment) does. Got it?

IMO you're sidestepping the fact that you were lining up the next day’s lynch. Here is a reminder:

Actually I’m directly telling you that’s not lining up lynches and you have no idea what you are talking about. Vastly different than sidestepping.

OK…you and I will have to disagree. I’m directly telling you you did line up the next day’s lynch. I provided the quote where you agree to lynch Sloth after cj gets lynched.

Suspicions change. Over the course of a two full days catch up….suspicions or comments made early in the read may very well change later in the read through. Why is that so hard to comprehend? I mentioned four suspects…why do I have to build a case on you for an initial gut suspicion?

1. Your presentation was hardly a little ‘gut suspicion’ post. You presented it as a very comprehensive look at the game with comments on a number of things you found suspicious.
2.

INCONSISTENCY DETECTED

!!! You’ve been hammering (falsely, I might add) about my ‘sudden’ suspicion and vote for you yet you are trying to use the ‘suspicions change’ defense yourself.

1. We’re like on the 3rd or 4th iteration of this debate. What point are you trying to prove here? If this is a point you feel is worth continuing with, please detail where my inconsistency is. I assume you think I made a statement or sentiment towards you (?) and have changed my mind? Please detail it.
2. No inconsistency here…I find it suspicious that you suspected DK so much Day 2 and are now focusing (or at least were when you voted me) on my slot for lesser or invalid reasons.

I can’t distance myself from Sloth because I took over his role.

Actually you absolutely can. As I’ve said it is a pretty common scum tactic to use. Replacements always have their own point of view but scum have more motivation to effectively say “Hey, I’m replacing a moron!”.

Great…I haven’t noticed this tell and more importantly…I never said Sloth was a moron.

First off…I bolded the comments in my quote. Are you even paying attention to what you write?

Yes. I copy / paste and don’t take original formatting with me. The bolded is the part of your comment that makes NO sense form the perspective you are arguing.

Nice use of further dismissive language.

You took credit for a comment I had made. You said you bolded something I had bolded. Is that a scum tell? I would say not. I was just pointing out the non-truth/inaccuracy. How is it dismissive to point this out to you. You who are so adept at using dismissive language.

I realize it would not make sense for the wolves to leave an actual seer alive. But why not agree with the logic that IF Emp HAD made it to D2…continuing to not vote him would be the best move for town?

Because this isn’t Fantasyland? Seriously … go find me a single Jungle Republic game where a claimed Seer survived the Night after claiming and wasn’t the killing faction. If you know of one please do because I have never seen it myself.

You can’t come up with a SINGLE scenario where it makes sense for the Werewolves to leave a non-Wolf claimed Seer alive overnight. Not a single one that isn’t a WIFOM fest that revolves around gambling with bad percentages on the Wolf team’s part.

Actually this is Fantasyland. Or are you really in a town that has evil sheep and werewolves?

---

Still catching up a bit. Should be able to finsh tomorrow and over the weekend.

Wicked…can you elaborate on why you are voting me and why you find my player slot suspicious?

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz 'goodnight

[zMuffinMan]

1. They were all invalid, weak and garbage. You were reaching so much that I could just as easily come up with links on any two players (though why I would want to is beyond me - it's scum motivated) by stretching as much as you did.
2. You don't appreciate irony, do you?
3. See #2
4. Yes. You are incredibly guilty of it.
5. So you admit that your meta argument on me is crap?
6. "Where?" would have been a better and more credible response to this.

1. Weak, maybe. Invalid, no. Go ahead and try to find links between me and anyone else; do me and MoI first. Gogo, interested in seeing the muffin-MoI relationship you found. It's not like you're doing anything else. You're certainly not making a case on anyone. What's stopping you?
2. lol
3. lol
4. lol
5. no
6. no

[zMuffinMan]

ebwop: I'm not going to argue about whether my links were weak btw, you can call them weak if you want, I don't really care about arguing the strength of the links anymore. They weren't invalid, though.

[MagnaofIllusion]

@MOD – I’ll be V/LA from today at 3pm EST until next Wednesday for an actual vacation. I’ll very likely only have limited access from my cell phone for limited hours during that time.

--

Fix your meta MoI. It's awful.

Ok, I get it. You are the 2005 version of Fate. Wildly unimpressive play, a penchant for rhetoric over actually using your brain, a love for being pointlessly insulting, and an ego that is very disproportionate for your actual game skills.

That makes your posts make more sense. Fate is totally shit at reading me also.

--

Once I get back from V/LA I’m definatly going to have to look at Muffin strongly in ISO. Reading his last two pages really makes me think he’s not scum-hunting and purposefully locked into this “Death Spiral” with Wicked as a means of active lurking.

--

Having

– I’m going to keep this as short as I can. Most of 695 is first, second or Nth iterations of your opinion clashing with mine. I’m not going to continue to waste time debating these issues because you aren’t going to change your mind. On the other issues –

I agree with all the points above.

So you agree that that post by Hez is chock full of scumminess. Is he now a scum-suspect for you or is he still Town?

Referencing specific examples do not require statistics. Saying something OVERWHELMINGLY indicates something (ie scum alignment) does. Got it?

I get what you are saying. It’s wrong. A specific example isn’t generally very relevant due to the low sample size. So giving one isolated example of Faraday as scum doing something isn’t relevant.

I am reminded you dodged my question regarding Faraday –

Have you ever played with Faraday as Town? If so did he vote with no reasoning there?

Answer it in your next post please!

It’s not a lie. Exaggeration again by you. And I like how you call it a lie and then proceed to prove that you suspected him before he left. Why would you consider Sloth’s post 496 as his going AWOL? It was his stretch of not posting in here prior to requesting replacement that constitutes his AWOL and which started your suspicion of him. His last post prior to requesting replacement was Post 416. You start calling him out on his absence in Post 473. THIS equates to you putting pressure on Sloth for not posting in the game. He was not avoiding the game BECAUSE of pressure…the pressure was coming AFTER he stopped posting.

Your definition of AWOL is pointless to the discussion. He was suspicious for posting IN OTHER GAMES while not posting here. That was and has always been part of my suspicion on your slot. Note that after all the ‘pressure’ that was being applied Sloth’s NEXT post requested replacement.

I don’t think Sloth was avoiding the game due to pressure. I think he was avoiding the game because he was scum and wanted to keep a low profile after his Day 1 play. His reaction to pressure being applied for that was to replace out and continue to play actively in other games.

You are asserting that it is because he was a bored Townie. I assert it was because he was scum and his best course of action was to get a ‘replacement halo’.

2. No inconsistency here…I find it suspicious that you suspected DK so much Day 2 and are now focusing (or at least were when you voted me) on my slot for lesser or invalid reasons.

This is laughable. You dismiss it as not being inconsistent but don’t explain how your statement of “Suspicions change” doesn’t equally apply to myself as well as you. As for my reasons being lesser or invalid ... nah baby nah. Your slot was scummy with Sloth's avoidance of thread and your play here has been scummy.

Yeah, you are Inconsistent as Hell about this issue. Scumtastic.

You took credit for a comment I had made. You said you bolded something I had bolded.

Um, whut? I don’t care if you originally bolded it or not. I bolded it

SPECIFICALLY

to draw attention to the fact that the bolded portion of your statement undercut your point completely.

You are completely straw-manning the argument by going off on some unrelated tangent about whether you originally bolded it or not. That’s irrelevant. You ignore the actual point of the argument in favor of straw-manning.

Actually this is Fantasyland. Or are you really in a town that has evil sheep and werewolves?

DODGE DODGE DODGE

with another straw-man.

You can’t come up with a credible scenario why a non-Wolf claimed Seer would survive the Night so instead you post this fluff. Scummy as all get out.

--

Since my thread read of Wicked and my VC analysis both make him a very unlikely scum I’m going to place my vote with his. Especially after Having’s latest round of scumtastic replies.

VOTE: Havingfitz

I’m also open to lynching either Hez or Neil today as they are my other top Wolf suspects.

[HezLucky]

So wait you've run out of reasons to vote having, who has looked town today (unlike his replacement -- sucks that your planning his lynch didn't go the way you wanted), and so you are going to buddy on someone else rather than vote for either "Neil or Hez" because

a) the Neil wagon has lost steam
b) you want to seem reasonable to the only person who wants you lynched?

Very strategic, MoI.