ASOIAF: Test of Faith Mafia (Game Over!)

[SpyreX]

It's a bad baby then.

I dont understand the obstinate nature of it. Its not like SK is espoused as this magnificent town read. Its spit in the eye for.... not voting him?

[ooba]

Vote Count

LynchMePls (2)

- Nexus, Locke Lamora

MagnaofIllusion (6)

- DrippingGoofball, LynchMePls, Hinduragi, SpyreX, Kast, Bilbo Baggins

DrippingGoofball (2)

- MagnaofIllusion, Magua

SaintKerrigan (6)

- Empking, Lost Butterfly, AlmasterGM, vezokpiraka, Benmage, Maemuki

Lost Butterfly (3)

- hasdgfas, SaintKerrigan, Thor665

Maemuki (1)

- Setael

Not Voting (0)

-

Nil

With 20 alive, it takes 11 to lynch!

[hasdgfas]

LB's looking pretty good now after the lower half of page 6.

Do you mind pointing this out to a blind cow who has no idea what you're seeing?

[AlmasterGM]

Also: If you think I'm scummy, or my posts are scummy, vote for me.

Or explode. One of the two.

No.

But, this is definitely scum talking. The whole forced "either vote for me or stop talking about me" thing. I can call you scum just fine without the vote. And you should like being under the magnifying glass, no?

[Hinduragi]

LB's looking pretty good now after the lower half of page 6.

Do you mind pointing this out to a blind cow who has no idea what you're seeing?

141 and 147 if I had to be all specific. I liked his behavior throughout the bottom half as well and I agreed with the Thor comment. That whole post looked like a 30 second skim of the thread with thoughts added.

[Thor665]

If Vezok flips scum those that actively chose to not vote uber-VI Vezok and instead went with LMP have juicy, juicy scum waiting to be picked hiding in that list.

How is joining an RVS wagon in any way "actively choosing" LMP over Vezok? If Vezok flipped scum, I'd actually look at you as a likely buddy for trying to tie random voters to him.

Why is getting off an L-3 (I think) wagon a scum-tell when Saint K's vote was the first vote and clearly RVS? Should he be required to keep his RVS vote on a wagon if he doesn't see it as valid?

Why is it scummy to get on but we're not allowed to question anyone who gets off?

@Saetal - here is your vote on MoI.
Stated issues are disagreement with how he's calling the Vezok LMP wagon connection in the first quote.
Second issue is asking why it's scummy that SK fled from the wagon wailing and flinging hands in the air.
You then voted him - did I miss an angle of your case?

[Thor665]

So, I'm saying take that meta and throw it into the sun and if you're gonna tsk tsk it better be for better than what I'm getting.

Tsk Tsk.

All I'm saying is he's a good enough player that he's not worth lynching on this weak as sin wagon you guys are cobbling together. It's silly. Stop acting like you've caught obv. scum - the case isn't there, it's a collection of reads all agreeing someone is scummy for different things and is, in fact, multiple RVS quality votes that have conglomerated into a big wagon off of nothing. I doubt any of the current voters could explain a reason for the wagon that the others would concur with - that's why it's terrible.

And Day 2 is a better day to discuss MoI lynchings, straight up.

[SpyreX]

Tsk Tsk.

All I'm saying is he's a good enough player that he's not worth lynching on this weak as sin wagon you guys are cobbling together. It's silly. Stop acting like you've caught obv. scum - the case isn't there, it's a collection of reads all agreeing someone is scummy for different things and is, in fact, multiple RVS quality votes that have conglomerated into a big wagon off of nothing. I doubt any of the current voters could explain a reason for the wagon that the others would concur with - that's why it's terrible.

And Day 2 is a better day to discuss MoI lynchings, straight up.

I didn't realize being good meant you couldn't get a scum PM. Silly me.

It is true this wagon is much weaker than the opus of "LB is a little sheepy".

And... if this wagon is weak as sin and made from nothing why in the name of everything holy would it be open to debate tomorrow? Better be careful up there humpty dumpty that fence is awful high.

[SpyreX]

And I'll enter into V/LA with this little humdinger:

Check MoI's activity onsite. Its pretty awesome.

[vezokpiraka]

SK is scum. That last post isn't helping. AGM is towny town for the way he is pushing on SK.

MoI on the other hand is a scum driven wagon. DGB and LMP stand out as being the worse voters on MoI

[DrippingGoofball]

I actually like Maemuki as scum better than MoI at this point. Especially after votes like this one:

Vote: MoI

Vezok is his sacrificial scum-bus-buddy he was prepping for later.

unvote, vote: Maemuki

Actually, Maemuki is correct. vezok a the likely busbuddy.

=================

Dear SpyreX,

You are town. If for some reason I survive this night, or maybe even some other nights, I will become paranoid about you. Please point to this post and slap me if I do.

DGB

[DrippingGoofball]

But, seriously, there are a handful of players I just really don't consider solid Day 1 lynch options.

Have you looked at the player list? Solid day 1 options are a rarity. We're going to have to cut into the muscle.

[Empking]

I agree with vezok. The only possible scumbag I see on the SK wagon is Maemuki (a null read) other than that the only town read I have that isn't on SK is DGB (Or I suppose MOI because I think AGM might well be right with his wagon analysis.)

[DrippingGoofball]

DGB is on him for the fake counterclaim - to heck with that.

Whoa whoa whoa

I'm on MoI for a whole lot more than a fake counterclaim. Don't speak for me.

[DrippingGoofball]

LynchMePls (2) - Nexus, Locke Lamora
MagnaofIllusion (7) - Setael, DrippingGoofball, LynchMePls, Hinduragi, SpyreX, Kast, Bilbo Baggins
DrippingGoofball (2) - MagnaofIllusion,

Magua

SaintKerrigan (6) - Empking, Lost Butterfly, AlmasterGM, vezokpiraka, Benmage, Maemuki
Lost Butterfly (3) - hasdgfas,

SaintKerrigan, Thor665

Check out the people in bold. Notice the correlation - they are all sketchy people, and they are all avoiding the top two wagons. Why is this? I think it's because SaintKerrigan is scum, and MoI is town.

Arright, AGM, you're town. Scum doesn't so what you just did.

I have looked at sketchy people on wagons on an experimental basis in the past, and abandoned the practice because it failed. It's using speculation about things you don't know, in order to speculate about things you don't know.

[DrippingGoofball]

@Spyrex - IN THIS GAME how is he being scummy at all? I disagree with some of his apparent stated logic, but I don't see him as an optimal lynch.

What's this bizniss about optimal lynches? It's hard enough to organize a town to lynch scum... now we have to optimize for gawd-knows-what nebulous criteria? NO.

[Locke Lamora]

MOI is ABSOLUTELY playing his scum game right now. He takes little belittling shots like this at people when he's scum. Anything he can to try and undermine someone's credibility he will do.

Nope. Pointing out that you are trying to draw an bad link between me being scum there and me being scum here isn't belittling.

Nice deflection. The belittling is the "you never caught me in that game" bit, not the "pointing out a bad link". You try to undermine me with that throw away "oh you never voted me" buisness. You still haven't explained WTF that has to do with whether or not it's a fair comparison. Because it has dick all to do with it, but you're more interested in making a slick point than in showing my argument

to be false if it is.

You also did have not explained why the comparison is bad, you only call it a bad link. So double fail.

Hi again all. LMP is scum for the bolded. Please vote accordingly.

Thor: who else would you rather not lynch on D1? Do you think ANY of the points on MoI are good?

[Empking]

MOI is ABSOLUTELY playing his scum game right now. He takes little belittling shots like this at people when he's scum. Anything he can to try and undermine someone's credibility he will do.

Nope. Pointing out that you are trying to draw an bad link between me being scum there and me being scum here isn't belittling.

Nice deflection. The belittling is the "you never caught me in that game" bit, not the "pointing out a bad link". You try to undermine me with that throw away "oh you never voted me" buisness. You still haven't explained WTF that has to do with whether or not it's a fair comparison. Because it has dick all to do with it, but you're more interested in making a slick point than in showing my argument

to be false if it is.

You also did have not explained why the comparison is bad, you only call it a bad link. So double fail.

Hi again all. LMP is scum for the bolded. Please vote accordingly.

Why?

[DrippingGoofball]

SK is scum. That last post isn't helping. AGM is towny town for the way he is pushing on SK.

MoI on the other hand is a scum driven wagon. DGB and LMP stand out as being the worse voters on MoI

Woo-hoo!

The busbuddy has spoken.

I love how you say that SK is scum, but nothing about MoI's alignment. Explain how LMP and myself are the worse voters. IN DETAIL.

[Locke Lamora]

Because it implies he thinks his argument could be false. I think it's a hint that he's faking scumhunting because it contradicts the certainty of his MoI meta-assertion. You don't say someone's obviously playing to their scum meta and then change your mind. So had MoI brought examples indicating that he wasn't playing to his scum meta, what would LMP have done? Attacked him anyway by pointing out where MoI's play did match his scum meta.

[Magua]

Pedit: Magua, I'd like to hear what your meta is playstyle-wise.

Self metas suck and cannot be trusted. But, to answer your question: To play stupider than the last time someone played with me.

No.

But, this is definitely scum talking. The whole forced "either vote for me or stop talking about me" thing. I can call you scum just fine without the vote. And you should like being under the magnifying glass, no?

Oh ho ho. Talk about me all you want. The problem is, you're not talking about me. I asked you straight up if you thought Maemuki was bussing or if SK was just a stronger scumread; instead of answering it, you got sarcastically defensive. So I pushed for an answer on that again. Each time, your scumread on me increased, apparently for the sole reason that I'm asking you what you think of more than one person and asking you to compare the scumminess of this person to that person. That's terribad.

[vezokpiraka]

SK is scum. That last post isn't helping. AGM is towny town for the way he is pushing on SK.

MoI on the other hand is a scum driven wagon. DGB and LMP stand out as being the worse voters on MoI

Woo-hoo!

The busbuddy has spoken.

I love how you say that SK is scum, but nothing about MoI's alignment. Explain how LMP and myself are the worse voters. IN DETAIL.

So you say I didn't say anything about MoI's alignment? I said it's a scum driven wagon. Do you know scum that likes to bus their buddy instead of voting for the other big wagon on day 1? I don't.

[DrippingGoofball]

So you say I didn't say anything about MoI's alignment? I said it's a scum driven wagon. Do you know scum that likes to bus their buddy instead of voting for the other big wagon on day 1? I don't.

I know you say it's "scum-driven" but since you haven't shown your calculations, it's a conclusion you're making up, not evidence that we can judge.

And since you're making up the "scum-driven" part, inferences I might make about any implied comment about the guilt of the wagonee would be utterly meaningless.

[Thor665]

And... if this wagon is weak as sin and made from nothing why in the name of everything holy would it be open to debate tomorrow?

I wouldn't want it to be this wagon Day 2, but I bet on Day 2 it wouldn't be this wagon.

Have you looked at the player list? Solid day 1 options are a rarity. We're going to have to cut into the muscle.

I'm on MoI for a whole lot more than a fake counterclaim. Don't speak for me.

You also screamed that he was obvious scum for thinking vezok was scum which he never claimed, but I was trying to keep it simple. Could you give me your sentence in a sentence or two? I did request it a couple of times.

What's this bizniss about optimal lynches? It's hard enough to organize a town to lynch scum... now we have to optimize for gawd-knows-what nebulous criteria? NO.

I disagree with this on such a huge level.

Thor: who else would you rather not lynch on D1? Do you think ANY of the points on MoI are good?

I've outlined the MoI wagon as I see and understand it. So far I've had a couple people go "yeah, that's it...::shrug::" and a couple others go "No, that's not it at all, you don't understand ::act busy as opposed to clarify::"
I'm really thinking I'm dead on the money here.

Let's clarify to 'rather not lynch in this weak way' a bit, but - yes - there are other players in general on the site and specifically in this game I'd rather not see dead on Day 1 because I think it hurts town's chances. It's awkward to say, but basically the list as it specifically goes to this game is you, MoI, cow, and Lost Butterfly. Yes, I am well aware of where my vote is.

[LimMePls]

I don't believe hascow is scum at this point either, but his points against me to me seem to come down to me being difficult and not willing to answer LMP's stupid question (which he didn't even care to follow up, thus further showing it was a stupid question)

THIS IS A FUCKING LIE! I FOLLOWED UP AND YOU STILL REFUSED TO ANSWER.

What credibility did the wagon have?

HEY LOOK GUYS I'M SO STREAM OF CONSCIOUSNESS I UNVOTED AND VOTED IN THE SAME POST THEN ASKED LOST BUTTERFLY A STUPID QUESTION'

SK can die. You can die next. You're right this game is easy.

FOS: LMP

What credibility did the wagon have?

Guess.

DIAF LYING SCUM.

No. No no and no. If MoI is under heavy suspicion, and he is right now, we especially cannot buy into the hope that if we're wrong about him he'll end up dead by Day 2. Making assumptions about who's scum and trying to find buddies based off that Day 1 is a shot in the dark - seriously I would doubt that it's better than random, because without flips making connections is completely counterproductive, can be manipulated too much by scum in the mix to count on as stable ground for scumhunting, and worst of all can be used to manipulate and confuse scumhunting and lynch options into the rest of the game. It is not the cornerstone on which to base your Day 1 lynch. It is a bad idea. If you have one strong scum suspect on Day 1, you lynch him. You do not search around and hope to find his buddy and lynch the buddy instead and leave the one who garnered the suspicion alive on the assumption that he may be Town. If the suspect is lynched and does flip Town, there's information to be gleaned from Day 1. If a hypothetical buddy is lynched Day 1, we might be right back where we started Day 2 with the original suspect and have muddied and highly manipulable and downright useless Day 1 information.

Not to mention still breathing scum-Magna can be very nasty for town, as evidenced here.

Check out the people in bold. Notice the correlation - they are all sketchy people, and they are all avoiding the top two wagons. Why is this? I think it's because SaintKerrigan is scum, and MoI is town. Think about it. MoI is also one of those wagons where if you lynch him D1 and then he flips town, there will be a lot of finger pointing the next day about whose fault it was, ESPECIALLY given obvscum SaintKerrigan could have been lynched instead. Convinently, the MoI wagon is at the tipping point right now - one or two more votes and it will have that critical mass that's very hard to spot. That means sketchy people know if they vote MoI now and he flips town, they'll take the heat tomorrow. They don't want that. But they ALSO don't want to vote for their buddy, SaintKerrigan. So they park their votes in these useless places and say irrelevant things to function as destractors.

Then again: You think MagnaofIllusion is town. MagnaofIllusion thinks DGB is scum. (I happen to agree, self interest and all here.) Do you think Magna is wrong? Misinformed?

How many fucking scum reads does MOI have?

Dear SpyreX,

You are town. If for some reason I survive this night, or maybe even some other nights, I will become paranoid about you. Please point to this post and slap me if I do.

DGB

We. Have. A. Cult. If for some reason you get paranoid about him you should probably stay that way.

Just sayin.

Because it implies he thinks his argument could be false. I think it's a hint that he's faking scumhunting because it contradicts the certainty of his MoI meta-assertion. You don't say someone's obviously playing to their scum meta and then change your mind. So had MoI brought examples indicating that he wasn't playing to his scum meta, what would LMP have done? Attacked him anyway by pointing out where MoI's play did match his scum meta.

NO. What I'm saying is that if MOI had a problem with my statement, he could have attacked the merits of the argument. Instead he strawmanned it to "YOU DIDN'T CATCH ME THAT GAME, EVERYONE GO LOOK AND SEE HE NEVER VOTED ME THAT GAME". The thrust of my argument is "I've seen MOI play these 'This wagon has scum on it' bullshit as scum before". I used the word "caught" to mean "I've caught him doing this", not "caught him and got him lynched". But he tried to tar me by going "YOU DIDN'T CATCH ME, I LIVED TO LYLO!" while never responding to the merits of my actual argument.