Return to Gambits (SK Win!)

[DeityKabuto]

I don't like a single one of C-worl's posts. None. Especially his reaction to votes in RVS.

VOTE: C-worl

Start a case on him, or else this is not a good vote.

He did start it, with the reaction to RVS votes. What do you think of that case?

My concern with the Surye posts is not MC strategy, but the fact that he didn't know one of hte main factors of the game (NKs aren't revealed publicly), as I worry what else he may not read later on.

I believe that C-worl is more of an easy-lynch based on Meta and his playstyle so far.

[Surye]

My concern with the Surye posts is not MC strategy, but the fact that he didn't know one of hte main factors of the game (NKs aren't revealed publicly), as I worry what else he may not read later on.

When did I say I didn't know that? I knew that before this game started, what did I say that lead you to believe otherwise?

[earworm]

@Surye: Sathoris's vote wasn't an RV. Look at it again. That's a "I think this playerslot has a high chance of being scum" vote.

@People not voting: VOTE. It helps us get a read on you. Please do it.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Cobblerfone

explanation for this vote will come in my next post. But first dinner.

[Cobblerfone]

No, I don't need to, I think it's a bad idea. Why are you pushing me so hard? On what? That I didn't want an MC? And now that YOU'VE decided we're not MC, what does it matter? You have not addressed any of my reads of comments on the game other than that I did not want MC.

What matters is that you gave a very odd reason to not MC. If you don't want to reveal your reasoning because the scum could do it without a MC, we'll just lynch the first person to claim who isn't at L-1.

You're tunneling so hard I think you're lost

The reason it sounds like I'm tunneling is because

you

keep wanting to avoid this explanation. And

I

keep asking you for an explanation. Nocmen however isn't paying attention. He's no longer leaning town.

[Surye]

I just think it's not a good idea to talk about pro scum strategies at length. I know you are insisting, but do you not understand why I would think that's a bad idea?

[Empking]

Vote Count 8

Cobblerfone (1) - earworm
DeityKabuto
TheJakalope (1) - CryMeARiver
Nocmen
TheMask
Monk
Surye (2) - TheMask, Cobblerfone
CryMeARiver (4) - sorasgoof, Surye, Sathoris, Nocmen
jilynne1991
vezokprika
Sathoris
earworm (1) - Ironhead
C-Worl (2) - vezokprika, Wredfar
Wredfar (1) - Monk
Ironhead
sorasgoof

Note Voting: DeityKabuto, TheJakalope, C-Worl, jilynne1991

With 16 alive, its 9 to lynch.

[Cobblerfone]

I understand why it might be if there is absolutely no way to close the loopholes. Do you understand why I find it suspicious? If you can answer that question satisfactorily, I'll let you off about the other one.

[Surye]

I understand why it might be if there is absolutely no way to close the loopholes. Do you understand why I find it suspicious? If you can answer that question satisfactorily, I'll let you off about the other one.

Of course, in fact, in this exchange I've never fingered you as scum, I still have you as town leaning, as I did in my lineup. Town not answering questions is always work suspicion, and that's why I am trying to show why I am doing it in this case. There may be something I am missing, and maybe all loopholes can be closed, but I see no town benefit to discussing it and giving scum possible angles or ideas they don't already have when it would not help town in either case today (all risk, no reward).

Doing a reread now to get my scumhunting back on track.

[Cobblerfone]

Town not answering questions is always work suspicion, and that's why I am trying to show why I am doing it in this case.

Thanks for humoring me here. That is one of the reasons I continued to suspect you. (The other and more original reason was that as scum you would be more likely to think about these more as opposed to the more obvious "It'll reveal PRs." Plus bringing it up without elaborating was kind of pointless.)

UNVOTE: Surye

Well. Guess it's on to Nocmen and wredfar. wredfar, I still want the other reasons for voting C-Worl. Nocmen, I actually can't think of any questions for you at the moment. (At least none that Surye wouldn't be more suited to.) I'll reread you both tomorrow or soon.

[Nocmen]

Just came back to say I just realized that Surye has been posting a lot but apparently didn't catch the mod confirming that lynches flip. And thus he's not paying attention.

VOTE: Surye
again.

You didn't technically ninja me this time deitykabuto. But, eh. I feel no shame.

Why does this matter?

I know the mod confirms lynches. I never said they didn't. My concern was night kills.

Why does this differentiation mean a vote/non-vote for me? Looks like you're trying hard to justify a vote on me..

That is why I beleived that, Surye.

[jilynne1991]

I will be unable to reach a computer until maybe the 5th or possibly sixth, because of a math competition, I will catch up as quickly as possible.

[Cobblerfone]

With Nocmen's explanation I don't have anything to question him. wredfar doesn't have enough posts.
I looked through some ISOs and found this though:

I think at this point there should be one scum on the CMAR wagon.

What makes you think so?

[vezokpiraka]

Cobblerfone: I want you to state your opinion on everyone so far.

[Empking]

TheJakalope has been prodded.

[Cobblerfone]

Town

jil (outburst was bad, but no way is it coming from scum.)
Ironhead (I've really liked his posts)

Leaning Town

Mask (He came up with the self-investigating idea.)
Surye (For now)

Town vibe

monk (I feel a kindred spirit with the way he posts.)
DeityKabuto
Sathoris
vezokpiraka

Interests of pursuit

Earworm
wredfar
Surye (Yes he's in two catergories.)

Null

CMAR (I've explained this.)
C-Worl (C-Worl is just plain null)
Nocmen (Went from leaning town to interest to unable to question. Will evaluate further.)

Everyone not mentioned hasn't really stuck out to me or doesn't have many posts.

I don't have a scum catergory. I'm an ex-vibe-style-hunter but that didn't go well. Plus, I'm mostly inconfident in my scumreads so if I did go after anyone on the first day it'd be halfheartedly. I have to wait for voting/lynch data before I'm truly confident in anything after my experience in my newbie-game. So unless something interesting comes up, it'll be hard for me to think anyone is really scum today.

[monk]

coolies, I've caught up with all my games now, yay!
Now for my reads:

Town:
Cobblerfone
Deitykabuto
CMAR
Sathoris
jilynne
earworm
Surye
Ironhead

Scum:
Vezok
wredfar
TheMask

null:
CWorl
sorasgoof
TheJackalope

[vezokpiraka]

Town

jil (outburst was bad, but no way is it coming from scum.)
Ironhead (I've really liked his posts)

Leaning Town

Mask (He came up with the self-investigating idea.)
Surye (For now)

Town vibe

monk (I feel a kindred spirit with the way he posts.)
DeityKabuto
Sathoris
vezokpiraka

Interests of pursuit

Earworm
wredfar
Surye (Yes he's in two catergories.)

Null

CMAR (I've explained this.)
C-Worl (C-Worl is just plain null)
Nocmen (Went from leaning town to interest to unable to question. Will evaluate further.)

Everyone not mentioned hasn't really stuck out to me or doesn't have many posts.

I don't have a scum catergory. I'm an ex-vibe-style-hunter but that didn't go well. Plus, I'm mostly inconfident in my scumreads so if I did go after anyone on the first day it'd be halfheartedly. I have to wait for voting/lynch data before I'm truly confident in anything after my experience in my newbie-game. So unless something interesting comes up, it'll be hard for me to think anyone is really scum today.

Interesting. Do you fell like you're playing the same as in the last empking game where you were scum?

[Cobblerfone]

Interesting. Do you fell like you're playing the same as in the last empking game where you were scum?

My play this game feels like a new step in a continuing evolution from all four of my previous games.

Out of my two completed games this one feels closer to Cthulhu Speed Mafia because almost no one has me as a suspect. As opposed to when I was a vanilla townie in my newbie game and got to L-1 on D-1. It definitely has a significantly different feel from both though. But that might be because it's open.

What are your thoughts on C-Worl's, yours, and my play compared to CSM? What are your thoughts on the play of any others you have played with?

[earworm]

Reasons why I voted Cobblerfone:

I don't particularly like this public rumination about CMAR's role.
I'm not liking

this

vote on Surye. Seems really reaching to me.
The fact that you said lynch cops gives my pause for concern also.

Answer to Cobblerfone's question:

The chances are with four scum and sixteen players that one scum was on the four person CMAR wagon. That's all.

Question to monk:

Reasons on your scum reads, please. I also would like the three people you are most convinced are town.

[Nocmen]

Reasons why I voted Cobblerfone:

I don't particularly like this public rumination about CMAR's role.
I'm not liking

this

vote on Surye. Seems really reaching to me.
The fact that you said lynch cops gives my pause for concern also.

Answer to Cobblerfone's question:

The chances are with four scum and sixteen players that one scum was on the four person CMAR wagon. That's all.

Which one do you think is most likely then, from the 4 people on it?

coolies, I've caught up with all my games now, yay!
Now for my reads:

Town:
Cobblerfone
Deitykabuto
CMAR
Sathoris
jilynne
earworm
Surye
Ironhead

Scum:
Vezok
wredfar
TheMask

null:
CWorl
sorasgoof
TheJackalope

I'm the one person missing from that.

Unvote, Vote: Cobblerfone

Your list is too wishy-washy, as I think not having any scum reads at all, why do you have your vote on someone who you have as leaning both town and scum? I do not like this attitude. You seem too afraid and cautious to go be wrong on someone you call scum, when it's day 1, and cases on people have to start somewhere. I will have to read this previous game that vezok mentioned though, and compare to your actions so far, as much as I hate basing cases on meta.

[earworm]

Answer to Cobblerfone's question:

The chances are with four scum and sixteen players that one scum was on the four person CMAR wagon. That's all.

Which one do you think is most likely then, from the 4 people on it?

It's still Sathoris.

[sorasgoof]

I'm just going to post reads on people. Since I don't have that much time, I'll explain them later if I remember/you guys ask.

Surye: thinks is town, but my paranoia is killing me
C-Worl: null to town
The Mask: null
Nocmen: leaning town
Vezo: null and thinks he is a very useless player\
Cobbler: leaning town
Iron: leaning town
CMAR: null to leaning a little bit scum
Monk: null
earworm: null to a little bit scum (this means nothing though, since it's just a gut feeling.)


I just named those on the top of my mind at the moment, and if you guys aren't on, it *might* be a sign you guys aren't active enough.

I love reading read lists like these, because they say so much. I see a "thinks is town," six "nulls," and three "leaning towns." (S)he has no strong scum reads yet? Nothing stronger than "null to leaning a little bit scum." All of these (scum) reads are incredibly weak. I see you said you had no time to explain, but I'd like explanations on your scum reads (I don't really care about your town reads at this point). Also, what about the rest of the playerlist? Through experience, I've found that players who post lists like these and DON'T have any somewhat strong leads one way or another are often scum. Until I get a good explanation,

Vote: jilynne1991

[sorasgoof]

^ I'm posting as I read/catch up, by the way.

[Cobblerfone]

The chances are with four scum and sixteen players that one scum was on the four person CMAR wagon. That's all.

...That's not how statistics work, though.

leaning both town and scum?

It's "interest of pursuit". I have him as leaning town for now. But I'm watching him in particular to either solidfy the read or change it.

You seem too afraid and cautious to go be wrong on someone you call scum, when it's day 1, and cases on people have to start somewhere. I will have to read this previous game that vezok mentioned though, and compare to your actions so far, as much as I hate basing cases on meta.

Please read the newbie game as well. I think it'll explain my "afraid to outright call people scum relentlessly on D-1" mindset I have now. Plus I'm not exactly sure how that might work as evidence since there's two scum-factions that are also hunting each other. At least, I think they would.

[Sathoris]

Sorry for my absence. UNVOTE: I'm finding all these lists with people under town or scum a bit transparant as they hardly give any reasons and just make you appear as if you're reading people. So I'll just give some opinions on what I found.

Jil's weird attack makes me think she doesn't care what others think so I don't think that outburts should give her any town points, which if I remember correctly some people did. Readslist with about 6 nulls and the rest leaning one way or the other really aren't any reads.
C-Worl has dropped of the radar after getting a bit of heat. Perhaps trying to avoid changing his play to quickly to discourage people thinking he changed because he's scum.
I'm unvoting CMAR because at the time it was right, but he can be dealt with later and shouldn't be today's lynch.
Surye gave solid reads with his list and has been pro-town in my eyes. He tried to cut the MC conversation short for obvious reasons and defended his view on it. Main town player in my eyes.
Cobbler's side of the MC conversation didn't seem scum orientated. The information wouldn't be worthwile to keep pressing the topic as he did. Nonetheless it's unsettling. Reposting his town list way to soon to show worthwhile change of reads. Seems overeager.
Earworm's reasoning for scum on CMAR's wagon was simple statistics, which isn't voteworthy I think. Shifted to Cobbler which I liked so I'm not any further.

The rest I can't find anything worthwhile mentioning on. As its only day one there's not a lot to go on yet. Because I always like to keep my vote on someone I'll go for VOTE: Jilynne List of reads was weak and no real attempt to find any reasons or give us a read on her.

I have one question to Cobbler: Do you still think an MC would be a good strategy today?