ASOIAF: Test of Faith Mafia (Game Over!)

[ooba]

Vote Count

LynchMePls (2)

- Nexus, Locke Lamora

MagnaofIllusion (6)

- DrippingGoofball, LynchMePls, Hinduragi, SpyreX, Kast, Bilbo Baggins

DrippingGoofball (2)

- MagnaofIllusion, Magua

SaintKerrigan (6)

- Empking, Lost Butterfly, AlmasterGM, vezokpiraka, Benmage, Maemuki

Lost Butterfly (3)

- hasdgfas, SaintKerrigan, Thor665

Maemuki (1)

- Setael

Not Voting (0)

-

Nil

With 20 alive, it takes 11 to lynch!

[LimMePls]

When I said "caught" I meant "I've seen you do this before" not "I got him lynched as scum". I think context makes this perfectly plain.

Second point – It’s a poor meta attack as you are taking a single instance and trying to position it as a easy Scum-tell indicator. Do you have any other instances of said “scum tell”?

So if I've only seen you do something once as scum, and I've never seen you do it as town, I'm not allowed to draw a conclusion from it? If your argument is that its a small sample size, then I disagree as I've played plenty of games with town-MOI and never seen you do this. Thus I've only seen you make statements like this when you are scum. If your argument is that it only happened once as either town or scum and thus isn't enough data to make it a conclusive scum-tell, then you may have an argument there. But note that you are only making this argument now after I've pushed you on it. Your natural response was "HAHA YOU NEVER VOTED ME IN THAT GAME", which was an attempt to discredit my argument by means other than countering the logic it was based on.

This is a clear misrepresentation. Please indicate where I took a “belittling shot” at you. Again, how is demonstrating (in a way that you don’t approve of) that you are making a faulty or / and scummy attach on me undermining?

I've already done this. The belittling shot was the "oh ya, if you caught me then why did I live to LYLO and you never voted me once". Your implication is that I shouldn't be listened to because I didn't get you lynched in that game. The issue is not how long you lived after doing that behavior, the issue is that I've seen you do this behavior before in the past as scum. Your attempt to make it about whether or not I ever voted you in Liten instead of about the comparisons between the two games is what I'm talking about.

First of all this falls right into the Captain Obvious ridiculous statement category that you derided in Return To Liten.

Of course it’s nasty for Town to leave a competent scum player alive. That’s Mafia 101.

You don’t mention that is also very beneficial for Town to leave a Town player alive.

The whole premise of your reaction is “MoI MUST BE SCUM”. You may claim it is your read but the ‘case’ on me is pretty fucking laughable. I’ll get to that in my catch-up post.

They aren't even remotely the same things since my observation was in response to Thors suggestion that MOI-scum shouldn't be lynched today. So clearly it isn't obvious to some. Your statements on the other hand are ridiculously obvious and not a counter to someone else challenging the idea. Your comparison is bunk.

[Lost Butterfly]

The last page or two reinforces why I'm happy with an LB vote. Absolutely ludicrous behavior(from both involved, but instigated by LB)

yeah i instigated it by telling him to die in a fire and fuck off. get out. seriously. you really SHOULD NOT be happy with your original vote anyway since your case is completely off the wall wrong.

[Lost Butterfly]

In other words, if this:

And yes, an L-3 large wagon has credibillity or momentum or whatever the fuck you want to call it, SK completely ruined that.

is true, why didn't you say that when I asked?

because the answer is self evident and it's more fun for me to make you guess

[MagnaofIllusion]

@MOD – I’ll be V/LA from today at 3pm EST until Wedensday for an actual Vacation. I will likely only have very limited Internet access via Phone during that time.

--

In regards to the ‘case’ on me I’m going to address it in this post as opposed to breaking it up into mutlple responses as it keeps this post short.

The ‘case’ on me started with DGB’s rhetoric heavy post where she lays out that I can’t be possibly believe the following premise –

“If Vezok is scum the initial LMP wagon is likely to have a higher than normal concentration of scum”. Yes, that’s the premise I made. It wasn’t in those words but that is the core of what I was trying to communicate.

DGB also threw on some weak other elements that I was

A. Pre-bussing Vezok my partner before he even posted.
B. Scum for responding in any way shape or form to her tired and boring usual fake-Vig claim.

I refuted those points and DGB has chosen not to respond.

If you want to take a crack at saying the statement above is clearly a scum statement and is far more likely to come from scum than Town have at it. I know it’s not true as I know what my Role-pm says.

Most of the rest of the points being made revolve around ‘things’ I people think I should believe based on the first point. Plum and Spyrex are the two doing this that come to my mind.

Pro-Tip Kids – I’m not you. If you want to claim that not thinking like you is a scum-tell have at it. It’s a stupid argument but go ahead.

In any regard whatever the outcome of today I think this questionable wagon on me is going to pay dividends for Town down the road. We have a great chuck of VC Analysis and behavioral analysis data to mine from the thread.

--

Hi again all. LMP is scum for the bolded. Please vote accordingly.

Well since DGB is obviously not getting traction I’ll sheep this until I see Saint K’s response.

UNVOTE: DGB
VOTE: LMP

--

How many fucking scum reads does MOI have?

Lulz this makes me laugh. I’m sorry, am I not allowed to form the opinion that there are possibly multiple scum players in a Large Theme Game?

--

But the focus on connections which are vague enough now and dependent on something happening in the future which MoI did not support with his vote even as he insinuated that it would be useful is a lot of hypothetical talk and no initiative taken, nor responsibility.

So I make an observation that I think will pay dividends if a certain condition is met. And then, since I have at that point no evidence that said condition is likely (Vezok hasn’t even posted) I’m scum for having an observation. Yeah, that’s crap.

Guess what's also a classic Wiki Tell for scum to use? It's the old classic 'that guy's using a Wiki Tell that scumbag!'. That's not a rebuttal.

It doesn’t have to be a fucking rebuttal because the premise that I was lining up lynches is absurd. And yeah, it's as tired as the '3rd Scum on the Wagon' tell. This isn't 2006.

Magna: Hinduragi can't be cult because they can't recruit until N2, as per the rules. I suddenly see what you're saying. What if they started out with more than one member?

If you think you see me calling Hind (or anyone) Cult then you aren’t seeing it correctly. I’ll respond if you wish to elaborate on what you think you see.

--

I'm saying if you believed what you said as an additive part you would have clearly stated the connection you yourself were drawing through:

1.) If vezok is scum, the LMP wagon is filled with scum protecting vezok.
2.) DGB is scum because of lol, reactions.
3.) DGB was one that made the LMP wagon.
4.) Therefore, 1 & 2 support each other.

There's no 4. Not even a pretend 4.

You are damn right there isn’t a 4 in my train of thought. Because 1 and 2 are completely independent lines of thinking. DGB can be scum in absolute without it having any direct correlation to Vezok’s alignment.

You are floating links 3 spots down the line before there is even confirmation of DGB or Vezok’s alignment. Sorry, not part of your “Moonbeam Patrol”.

We get a DGB flip of scum or a Vezok flip as scum and it strengthens the possibility. But since I don’t know for certain their alignments I’m not going to go down the Crazy Brick Road.

I asked for the word all. ALL.

So pretty sure there is a whole lineup of townies there. Unless we're arguing the word whole means all but only means butterflies when you say it.

Good for fucking you. I showed you a quote from DGB that asserted that wagon was full of Townies. Your stubborn insistent on DGB not using a specific word doesn’t mean it can’t be inferred. Way to avoid the point I was making to be Captain Grammar!

So again how many scum are there? Its a cult game afterall.

Depending on Town Power, the number of UnCultable players of all alignments and looking at the 20 person starting group I say 5 to 6 scum.

So, lets rap. SK is a nice easy read filled with waffling and the stuff that bullets are made for. MoI has a much harder shell but is filled with creamy, creamy nugat.

Classic stupid argument. LULZ, PLAYER X IS AN EASY SCUM READ JUST LOOK SO LET’S LYNCH SOMEONE ELSE VIGS ARE MEANT FOR EASY SCUM READS.

Why wouldn’t I be just as useful a Vig shot? Explain it Captain Moonbeams!

And I'll enter into V/LA with this little humdinger:

Check MoI's activity onsite. Its pretty awesome.

ABSOLUTE CRAP OF THE HIGHEST ORDER. FUCKING BULLSHIT THAT I WILL NOT FUCKING STAND FOR!!

ELABORATE MOTEHRFUCKER! SAY WHAT YOU MEAN.

I WANT TO SEE WHAT BULLSHIT YOU ARE COMING UP WITH BASED ON MY ACTIVITY HISTORY.

NEXT FUCKING POST!!!

--

@MoI - I have a question, mostly I just skim over your walls anyway so maybe I'm missing something, but here;

1. You believe that if Vezok is scum, that the LMP wagon has a disproportionate amount of scum on it.
2. DGB calls you out for lining up a bunch of town mislynches.
3. You vote DGB and she is scummy because she's aware that there is a lot of town on the LMP wagon.

3 isn’t correct, or more correctly complete. I’m voting DGB for her virulent reaction to my post and the outsided “LULZ OBV-SCUMCLAIM” of it in full.

Her attempting to say I was scum for taking her obv-fake Vig comment.

Her attempting to say I was lining up lynches (which is false and a classic scummy attack).

The whole kit and caboodle.

[AlmasterGM]

Oh ho ho. Talk about me all you want. The problem is, you're not talking about me. I asked you straight up if you thought Maemuki was bussing or if SK was just a stronger scumread; instead of answering it, you got sarcastically defensive. So I pushed for an answer on that again. Each time, your scumread on me increased, apparently for the sole reason that I'm asking you what you think of more than one person and asking you to compare the scumminess of this person to that person. That's terribad.

Because it was a stupid question. Answer this - It's been less than 5 pages and Maemuki has made one post. Do you really think that is enough content to generate an opinion on whether she is or is not bussing? Moreover, why does it even matter? If they're both acting scummy, why can't I just call them both scum?

And yes, that is why my scumread on you is increasing. Because you are getting really hung up on this one particular interaction when, in reality, it shouldn't be a big deal at all. Which makes me think you have a vested interest in seeing it go a particular direction.

Other scummy stuff:

Thor - I cannot discern who is suspects are or what his advocacy actually is. He seems to just be saying random stuff.

LMP - does he normally rage and/or yell this much? I can't remember, but it seems really forced.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Outstanding Important Issues

–

I am still waiting to hear SaintKerrigan’s reasons for voting for me as asked at 83.

I desperately want to see what the Mina half of Lost Butterfly has to say about me being Town or Scum.

[SaintKerrigan]

"Attention: SaintKerrigan is currently in the process of catching up to what's been said and trying to figure things out. We ask for your continued patience as he continues to collate data and type up a response.

"Thank you for your cooperation."

[Lost Butterfly]

I desperately want to see what the Mina half of Lost Butterfly has to say about me being Town or Scum.

I'm pretty sure I can read you better than Mina can. But maybe that's me being arrogant.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I'm pretty sure I can read you better than Mina can. But maybe that's me being arrogant.

That may be true but I still want to see Mina's take on the issue.

[Lost Butterfly]

Me too >_>

[Magua]

Because it was a stupid question. Answer this - It's been less than 5 pages and Maemuki has made one post. Do you really think that is enough content to generate an opinion on whether she is or is not bussing? Moreover, why does it even matter? If they're both acting scummy, why can't I just call them both scum?

It didn't matter until you started calling me scum because I wanted you to answer the question.

I mean, if you're the type who's willing to call Maemuki scum for one post, which, according to this thread, both you and I are, then why is it such a goddamn hurdle to come up with an opinion as to whether she's bussing or not? Or you could've just brushed the question away with "SK is scummier." But you did neither, you went defensive and you went sarcastic.

And yes, that is why my scumread on you is increasing. Because you are getting really hung up on this one particular interaction when, in reality, it shouldn't be a big deal at all. Which makes me think you have a vested interest in seeing it go a particular direction.

So how much more does it need to increase before you vote me?

The MoI/LMP/LB Ménage à trois is disturbing to read, and kind of pointless as well. I've already gotten to the point where LMP's and MoI's posts are too long and too point-by-point for me to care about reading them. LB's are equally disturbing/pointless, but at least mercifully shorter.

[MagnaofIllusion]

The MoI/LMP/LB Ménage à trois is disturbing to read, and kind of pointless as well. I've already gotten to the point where LMP's and MoI's posts are too long and too point-by-point for me to care about reading them. LB's are equally disturbing/pointless, but at least mercifully shorter.

Why is it pointless? Have you absolutely determined our aligment? Do tell.

Also … you didn’t answer this. Please do so –

Roll that forward one iteration

1. You agree with AGM that Maemuki is scum.
2. Why are you still voting DGB? Do you have a stronger scum-read on DGB than Mae?

--

@LMP – You’ve continued to not directly answer this question. Stop dodging and answer it –

Question – Are you asserting that I am wrong in saying that there is likely to be a higher concentration of scum on YOUR wagon if Vezok is scum than if he is Town?

On to other replies …

When I said "caught" I meant "I've seen you do this before" not "I got him lynched as scum". I think context makes this perfectly plain.

Of course you do. But as shown in thread others seem to be taking my posts in all sorts of creative directions that I didn’t intend.

So if I've only seen you do something once as scum, and I've never seen you do it as town, I'm not allowed to draw a conclusion from it?

Not if you want it to be a credible conclusion. You are basically saying “Hey this one time out of his 50+ games MoI did something that tangentially resembles something he did when he was scum”.

If your argument is that its a small sample size, then I disagree as I've played plenty of games with town-MOI and never seen you do this. Thus I've only seen you make statements like this when you are scum. If your argument is that it only happened once as either town or scum and thus isn't enough data to make it a conclusive scum-tell, then you may have an argument there.

Yeah, that’s it in a nutshell.

But indulge me … list all the games where you have directly experienced MoI Town. I can only come up with 3 off the top of my head and don’t want to Wiki stalk. In two of those games I died N1.

But note that you are only making this argument now after I've pushed you on it. Your natural response was "HAHA YOU NEVER VOTED ME IN THAT GAME", which was an attempt to discredit my argument by means other than countering the logic it was based on.

This is so circular logic it hurts.

1. You specifically asked me to respond in a meanful manner. I do and now you try to assert it’s scummy. Way to establish a damned if you do, damned if you don't
2. My ‘natural’ response while being bombarded by crap attacks from all sides is scummy? Sorry I didn’t have 45 minutes to an hour to sit down and properly respond to your one point that wasn’t strong to being with. You aren't a special snowflake who deserves extra attention.

I've already done this. The belittling shot was the "oh ya, if you caught me then why did I live to LYLO and you never voted me once".

You are absolutely stretching with this. If I had called your moronic for brining up that invalid point I could see you making this argument. But I didn’t.

Your implication is that I shouldn't be listened to because I didn't get you lynched in that game.

Hold the horse Tex. My implication? You were the one just dismissing my point that your were originally implying something with a wave of the “in context it is plain” flag. My implication was that your assertion was crappy and invalid. Which it is.

Sorry, can’t have it both ways.

[SaintKerrigan]

Also SK's post where he re-votes us based on our 'new posts' seems disisgenous as there's no sheeping between the time he leaves and come back.

(The following are paraphrases of the posts LB made between my #43 and my #75, to save a quote wall and some peoples' sanity.)

#47: FOS LMP (Actually, this wasn't a paraphrase.)
#48: I PARAPHRASED LMP'S POST. Let's kill him after SK.
#50: Guess. (Ok, this wasn't a paraphrase, either.)
#52: I disagree with Emp's logic, but I dun care cuz he's voting SK.
#65: #61 is such an amazing post. (You know, this also isn't a paraphrase.)
#68: I make sarcastic remark about walls of text presence.

An overwhelming amount of content, I know. Also, you sheeped the LMP wagon and my wagon. The only wagon I sheeped on was MoI's.

AGM!

AGM, I don't know what you're talking about. The "yay I haz votes" gig was in reference to the people voting me, not the vote I had just made. What's up, man?

Still waiting on the answer to this, man.

Also, with all due respect, the latter half of your #160 is ridiculous. That entire section hangs on the premise that I'm scum and that MoI is town. Why am I scum? Because you misinterpreted one post of mine and think it's black gold. Why is MoI town? (Actually, I'm not sure I see why you think that. Clarify?) The point being, you're throwing in tons of buddy speculation and using my so-called buddies as more reason to have me lynched. C'mon, man.

I’d like to know what exactly makes me a viable vote in your own words. Please oblige.

You know...for the original reason, I honestly don't remember. There was some bad gut feeling I had based on your first two posts, and then I decided to sheep DGB's vote. Your #44 looked like massive overkill to what DGB said, though, and that was why I stayed leaning towards you over her. (In case you didn't notice, though, I moved the vote off of you.) You continue to overreact and harp on little things like phrasing (i.e. the "whole line-up of townies" issue). I still like other prospects (i.e. LB, Maemuki) over you, but you haven't made it off the list.

*reads Locke Lamora's LMP case*

FoS: Locke Lamora

Get a better case plz.

the only town read I have that isn't on SK is DGB

...this reads like you think I'm town, but that's not the stance I've seen from you. Clarify?

The last page or two reinforces why I'm happy with an LB vote. Absolutely ludicrous behavior(from both involved, but instigated by LB)

/agrees

Conclusions:
- I still like my LB vote.
- Maemuki and MoI are still on my list.
- Locke is on the fringe of that list.
- Shrimp is awesome.

Can I have more votes now, plz?

[Empking]

the only town read I have that isn't on SK is DGB

...this reads like you think I'm town, but that's not the stance I've seen from you. Clarify?

You're my biggest scum read. DGB is a town read. She is also the only town read not voting for you.

[hasdgfas]

The last page or two reinforces why I'm happy with an LB vote. Absolutely ludicrous behavior(from both involved, but instigated by LB)

yeah i instigated it by telling him to die in a fire and fuck off. get out. seriously. you really SHOULD NOT be happy with your original vote anyway since your case is completely off the wall wrong.

Something really feels off about you in this game. I'd love to hear from Mina, maybe she'll make me feel better about you, but right now it just feels like you're ding-dong ditching people.

[Lost Butterfly]

An overwhelming amount of content, I know. Also, you sheeped the LMP wagon and my wagon. The only wagon I sheeped on was MoI's.

'sheeping is only scummy when i say it is' thanks. i'm glad you linked to my content filled post, my fos on lmp was pretty impressive. still, the supposed sheeping came BEFORE these posts, so could you kindly admit to pulling shit out of your ass we can move on and lynch you.

hasdgfas: what does 'off' mean and off compared to where?? what games of mine are you referring to. we've never played together and you've modded me in one game. what games of mine have you read? you can feel free to keep waiting for mina, i'm sure she'll be much more pleasant but for the moment i'm posting and your case on me amounts to using rhetoric (which makes me think you don't have meta on me), me being difficult (once again, makes me think that your calling me 'off' is wrong) and...I don't remember the other point? sheeping? w/e.

hey hasdgfas and saintkerrigan, what do you think of LMP's 199 and then his #212 how well do they work together for you?

[DrippingGoofball]

MoI's post is one giant outrage at being caught for the wrong reasons.

[Lost Butterfly]

@Nexus: thoughts on the game, I know you've been around.

[SaintKerrigan]

still, the supposed sheeping came BEFORE these posts, so could you kindly admit to pulling shit out of your ass we can move on and lynch you.

When did I say that the sheeping occurred in those posts? As for the other question...they work well enough, I guess? What's your point?

[DrippingGoofball]

SK is town.

[AlmasterGM]

SK is town.

X

[DrippingGoofball]

SK is town.

X

Yeah, but he is.

In other news, a return to civility would be much appreciated.

[Lost Butterfly]

still, the supposed sheeping came BEFORE these posts, so could you kindly admit to pulling shit out of your ass we can move on and lynch you.

When did I say that the sheeping occurred in those posts? As for the other question...they work well enough, I guess? What's your point?

oh you 're-evaluated' based on the old information. gotcha. teehee.

as for my point, I don't know take a wild guess.

[DrippingGoofball]

Here's why.

Also, with all due respect, the latter half of your #160 is ridiculous. That entire section hangs on the premise that I'm scum and that MoI is town.

The above is a townie mindset. You can't fake that.

Also, he's spreading a wide net of [sikrit town tell], rather than a wide net of [sikrit scum tell].

He is town.