Newbie 1104 -- Game over

[Twistedspoon]

I srsly have 110?
and second is Gbevil with 70

I must be some posting machine

anyways, It's quality not quantity. I concede those points to chaos and Haylen

back on topic/

[gbevilchaos]

@Anyone, do you think there's a possibility of Hayscum?

The only winning move is not to play.

what do you mean by this?

It's a quote from the movie WarGames. A supercomputer is ready to launch nuclear missiles to destroy the world, but eventually is convinced to not do so after realizing the concept of Mutually Assured Destruction when a simulation of nuclear war scenarios is run.

/nerd

What he means is that there is no way for him to correctly answer the question "Are you scum?" because both a townie and scum would say "No." Since there are no specific questions regarding his actions directed at him, he didn't bother to give a response of why he isn't scum.

[Haylen]

Sorry, I can't take Twistedspoon seriously with his new avatar. I hope he changes it temporarily whilst I try and do my read of him <3

lol

I'm not a very serious person I must admit

but the irony is I always take Haylen too seriously or face the fear of going to hell <3

@Anyone, do you think there's a possibility of Hayscum?

The only winning move is not to play.

what do you mean by this?

I was thinking of a clever answer like I usually do. But then realised the town and scum motivations for answering it would lead to WIFOM. So the only way to correctly answer the question is not to answer at all.

[Haylen]

Spot on, Gbe

[Nobody Special]

CaptainCuddles has been prodded.

[Nobody Special]

noragar has been prodded.

[noragar]

Did I say that was a mistake? Clearly it couldn't have been since I responded to Otolia throughout. Nice deflection, though, I really appreciate the effort put forth in this post. It really proves that you're really trying to grasp at your best efforts to AtE here. You an English major, by chance?

Actually, a math major.

I don't think you ever said that it was a mistake. It's quite possible that it's not a mistake for you, but it would have been a mistake for me which is what I was saying. Some people interpreted the question to be a possible scum indicator. One of my strategies during Day 1 was to not do anything that would cause myself to appear scummy because it could possibly lead to my being incorrectly lynched by the town. Since asking a question that led others to view me as scummy would have gone against my strategy, I would have viewed it as a mistake.

What does AtE mean? Anti-town Eliminate? Yes, I'm making my best efforts to eliminate those that are anti-town.

[gbevilchaos]

Did I say that was a mistake? Clearly it couldn't have been since I responded to Otolia throughout. Nice deflection, though, I really appreciate the effort put forth in this post. It really proves that you're really trying to grasp at your best efforts to AtE here. You an English major, by chance?

Actually, a math major.

I don't think you ever said that it was a mistake. It's quite possible that it's not a mistake for you, but it would have been a mistake for me which is what I was saying. Some people interpreted the question to be a possible scum indicator. One of my strategies during Day 1 was to not do anything that would cause myself to appear scummy because it could possibly lead to my being incorrectly lynched by the town. Since asking a question that led others to view me as scummy would have gone against my strategy, I would have viewed it as a mistake.

What does AtE mean? Anti-town Eliminate? Yes, I'm making my best efforts to eliminate those that are anti-town.

The way this post is phrased is just downright odd. Townies worry about finding scum. They don't worry about making mistakes, because at the end of the game, whether they're lynched or not doesn't matter. What matters is whether or not the scum were found.

If your strategies involve making sure you don't seem scummy, then you're most likely scum. Only scum have to worry about blending in.

Asking questions, as long as they will help find scum, is never a mistake. Holding back cases and questions you have about other players is definitely something scum would do.

Vote noragar

I didn't get a scummy read from you on Day 1, but that post was a big "mistake" as you put it.

[noragar]

Yes, townies worry about finding scum. But how is it productive to look for scum in such a way that you appear to be scummier than the true scum are looking. What benefit is it to mislead the rest of the town into thinking you might be scum?

[forest_air]

Hey guys, I'm back.

@Haylen, excellent analysis, you caught many things I actually didn't notice myself or forgot about. I didn't think they mattered, but I appreciate how you've made such thorough posts on the people in the game.

I feel obliged to respond to your posts.

My first RV was out of pure randomness. The game hadn't even started yet, and I was excited to play the game. The reason I switched to Lord of Graves(now deceased Otolia) was because I didn't want people to think I was intent on voting for noragar. Don't think too much of that, because revoting for noragar could probably have been seen as scummy if I had actually done that.

But now my vote on noragar is serious because I have what I need to prove that noragar is scum and chkflip is town. I'll make a post on that next.

There are a lot of other things that you pointed out like me "lying about game experience." When this game started, the other game I was playing was still ongoing, but I had already been killed night 3 or something. I was actually referring to the same game whenever I talked about a past game, but thought of it in a different way since it ended pretty quickly after my first reference.

And just to be clear, if I do anything that seems noobish, I'm perfectly capable of taking responsibility instead of going "But I'm new!" So don't think otherwise

And yes of course I don't think just looking at posts is the only way to find scum. Just at that point in the game, I was more intent on focusing on the random votes. I should have explained myself more clearly. Not a lot of posts had been made at that point, so people looking for scumtells would only be able to find them in the players who had posted more.

My initial vote for chkflip was a joke. I was prepared to take it off once I had more evidence for someone else I was suspecting at that point. Don't think anything of it.

And I made my vote for Otolia after much consideration. I knew that it was risky, but someone had to take the hammer. Earlier I was being extremely cautious, but this game does involve making risks, and at the time of voting, I decided that that was the right moment to make one.

Think what you want, but I'm not guilty of anything. But thanks for your opinions.

[forest_air]

Warning: Super long post. Full of multi-quotes, probably some grammar mistakes, and I promise at least one piece of faulty logic. I stand by my opinions unless someone proves me horribly wrong.

Okay, why I'm suspicious of noragar. To sum up #188, at the beginning his posts were mostly explaining terminology and his posts were limited. I was beginning to suspect he was trying to remain unseen. TS asked chkflip to vote for noragar, which he did. Then, noragar said to chkflip :

If you're getting a town-tell from me, why are you so quick to jump on the bandwagon just because TwistedSpoon asked you to?

even though chkflip did say he had suspected noragar earlier on in 185.

Then in post 204, Otolia votes for noragar out of pressure. Obviously, since he was scum, he wasn't going to keep to his original vote, and I probably would have voted for my scum buddy first post if I were replacing into the game, too.

chkflip later makes some points about noragar deflecting scum in 208. He starts to post more as the game goes on, but I felt that was only because he was being BWed against. I vote for noragar then, and Otolia says to me:

It is to be expected that anyone who is being bandwagonned start to post more. I am not sure I like the way you are justifying your vote.

Early noragar defences from Otolia. Who continued to do that as the game went on. Noragar then directs this next quote at me:

The reasons I've seen for the votes against me are:

1. Answering an easy question to try to appear more town
2. Scum skimming because I skimmed over a post that hadn't been made yet when I answered that question.
3. Trying to blend in and not appear scummy. Isn't it good strategy to try to not appear scummy whether you're scum or town?
4. Not posting very much even though I've posted more than half the other people in the game.
5. Copying a vote without reason, even though I stated my reasons before the vote I "copied" was made.

I guess if I'm going out, I may as well have my vote on the person who tried hardest to orchestrate it.

Unvote
Vote: Chkflip

My initial read on the spot when there was nothing else to go on was that of Vanilla townie since I thought that when the original person disappeared immediately, I though it was more likely that someone would just walk away after getting dealt a VT role than either a scum or a power role. But since then, Chkflip's actions make no sense to me. First he tries to fabricate a very weak case against me. Then after that fails, he admits that my responses seem town, then immediately votes for me because someone asked him to. I tried to get more information about his justifications, but it looks like I may not have time to do that.

At that point I didn't like the logic he used to vote.
Then he attempts to give a shout out to gbevil, someone who is continually refered to as pro-town. I was thinking it could have been an attempt to appeal to the town and to convince them to change their votes.

Oh - and a shout out to gbevil. Thanks for the support.

You're either the one townie that has a clue, or doing a good job at distancing yourself from chkflip to help your scum partnership with him - either way, something my fellow townies should keep in mind further down the road.

I would have believed him at the time, but he made an OMGUS vote. Just trying to shift the blame in an attempt to get the BW off of him.
Then after some PR drama, TS switches his vote to Otolia, while pondering whether it would be better to vote for him or Espeonage. I unvote for noragar, make a comment that pisses off Otolia, and chaos ensues.

TS votes for Otolia. Chkflip follows, again. I think Chkflip was trying to play it safe since TS is the IC, but chkflip could have actually known what he was doing. Otolia was acting really irrationally then, I would have voted for him earlier if I weren't so cautious and afraid of a lynch too early.

Otolia accuses TS of tunneling. Chkflip says this which makes me think he's more town:

I also think your "self preservation motivated" theory seems even more fitting here. Scum wants to live.

Some more stuff happens. Otolia says noragar cannot be lynched today (reading this after Otolia turned out scum leads me to believe that Otolia was trying to prove to the town that noragar was town so he could survive to the end? Otolia was getting really close to a lynch then...just a thought. Anything to keep the mafia alive.

Otolia then makes a pedobear joke after being questioned who his partner was, then a few posts later:

You are really spouting out random affirmations without thinking about it, just like TS. This question is a true dilemma for every side (except Third Party maybe), and here is why.

Scum-side

: A mafia player don't name his partner at first because it too dangerous. But naming a townie will drew further suspicions on the people you didn't name including your partner. It becomes a game of WIFOM

Town-side

: Being a townie means you don't lie. Why would you cast suspicions on someone particularly when upon reveal, your fellow townies will take another look at your reads upon death ? Naming someone is creating WIFOM and townies don't want that.

VOTE: Chkflip I would like you to stop acting as if I were mentally challenged.

Then Otolia later admits he made a rage vote. Leading me to believe that chkflip is innocent, as Otolia's posts filled with rage seem to be scum directed at townie to me.
Later, noragar says he suspects chkflip.
Otolia seems to be attacking the people against him, but he ignored 334 when noragar said he'd likely change his vote to Otolia after his re-read. I find this rather odd.

Of course, as I had suspected, noragar comes back, with more evidence on chkflip. TS supports ragar's ideas, but considers voting for flip on D2.

Later gbevil votes for Otolia, then invites someone to take the hammer. Not soon after, I make the final vote. Day's over and Otolia reveals his role.

I'll break the deal for you : I'm scum.

Go partner, you can win this.

PS : I'll have A LOT to say about TS focus after game. See you there.

I'm almost certain TS is not scum after this post. Although it could be cover.

Post 364 directed towards me:

Curious as to why you think everybody who voted for Otolia is not scum (with that vote being the main or only reason provided), with one exception. I can see the reasoning behind saying that about TS starting the wagon, and to a lesser extent gbevil and forest for finishing the wagon. But it seems to me that chkflip and I were in basically equivalent positions on the wagon. Why do you say Chkflip would have jumped off the wagon if he were scum, but I wouldn't have?

TS makes some points about whether or not flip is town.
post 381 noragar takes the chance to vote for clip as scum regardless of what happened D1.

Yes, townies worry about finding scum. But how is it productive to look for scum in such a way that you appear to be scummier than the true scum are looking. What benefit is it to mislead the rest of the town into thinking you might be scum?

Anyone could make a post like that. Makes you look like you're trying to be pro-town.

My vote still stands. Sorry for being away.

@chkflip Hayscum is possible, since she may have made all of those posts to make people believe she was pro-town. She was giving both mafia reasoning and townie reasoning, so she could use either of the reasoning she supplied us with earlier to help her in the future. I think she's more likely to be town, though.

@TS: I don't care what you say, flip is town. With a mixture of vibes, and evidence from all of those posts I quoted, that's what I think. I'm keeping my vote.

P.S. I miss your old avatar XD

[noragar]

But now my vote on noragar is serious because I have what I need to prove that noragar is scum and chkflip is town. I'll make a post on that next.

Is this part still to come? If the proof that noragar is scum and chkflip is town is in that last post somewhere, please highlight it because I must have missed it.

Chkflip may be town, but I'm becoming more convinced that the second scum needs to be one of {chkflip, forest, or CC}.

[Twistedspoon]

fine chkflip's town

but I'm less uncertian about noragar being scum too

Espe?

[Twistedspoon]

P.S. I miss your old avatar XD

[Espeonage]

Vote: Haylen

Need to do some meta hunting. Can I have a scum newbie game link from you please. I think I might have caught something.

[Twistedspoon]

offtopic just for a second, but I doubt scum would do something as bold as Espe just did

seriously, that's a very bold move for scum, accusing Haylen

VOTE: CC

[Nobody Special]

Votecount 2.02

noragar - 2 - forest_air, gbevilchaos
CaptainCuddles - 1 - Twistedspoon
chkflip - 1 - noragar
Haylen - 1 - Espeonage

Not Voting: Haylen, CaptainCuddles, chkflip

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline: June 21

V/LA: ...

[gbevilchaos]

Yes, townies worry about finding scum. But how is it productive to look for scum in such a way that you appear to be scummier than the true scum are looking. What benefit is it to mislead the rest of the town into thinking you might be scum?

If you're scum hunting and trying to get a town win, then you don't have to worry about appearing like scum at all.

Can some other people give thoughts on this? I find it completely crazy that noragar literally said that he's playing with the goal of not making mistakes that would make him appear scummy. Isn't that the definition of how scum should try to play?

[Haylen]

Vote: Haylen

Need to do some meta hunting. Can I have a scum newbie game link from you please. I think I might have caught something.

Most recent newbie scum game. I'm changing my posting and playstyle, though. Out of interest, what do you think you've caught?

[chkflip]

Twisted, do you think Espe's move

[chkflip]

Wow, I didn't hit submit. Weird.

Twisted, do you think Espe's move was in fact to make him look more town?

All, who's comfortable with a noragar lynch today? I see many suspicions flying about but I don't know how strongly they're felt.

LOL'd Hayhay, am I really that hard to read? I'M A WILDCARD, A LOOSE CANNON. THREE STEPS AWAY FROM VI (some would say).

Espe, looking forward to your findings.

Cuddles, post plox. D=

Chaos, you and I feel the same way about noragar's playstyle. That's all I've got to say about that for now.

[forest_air]

But now my vote on noragar is serious because I have what I need to prove that noragar is scum and chkflip is town. I'll make a post on that next.

Is this part still to come? If the proof that noragar is scum and chkflip is town is in that last post somewhere, please highlight it because I must have missed it.

Chkflip may be town, but I'm becoming more convinced that the second scum needs to be one of {chkflip, forest, or CC}.

chkflip is town, a lot of the posts I quoted earlier seem pro-town.

A lot of the posts I made were to make you seem as scum. Often your votes corresponded with Otolia and even after he died they still remain the same. I kinda forgot to say that which made my post seem weak, right? I still find that very scummy.

Although I have forgotten about CC. How have you been? Any new suspicions?

[Espeonage]

I can't exactly put my finger on what it is. And there are a few periods of it in the game haylen linked to.

Read her iso keeping in mind that she is experienced with newbies and that she knows that newbies are impressionable. From my time playing as an SE (I have played many games as an SE) I often find that when the IC is scum they go out of their way to show wiki town tells or things that make them appear trustworthy while ignoring and more subtle scumtells they may be giving off. This feels like one of those times.

I'd like to see whta others think on the matter.

I kinda feel like this is really weak and in a way it is. I've just seen it quite a few times. In the case of Haylen, being an IC but not being an IC I just think she is attempting to come accross as a helpful townie but going completely overboard to the point where it is supposed to cement her as town and somewhat of a town leader. This is definantly a big scumtell if it is true as it is the perfect way to get newbies on side.

Opinions? Calls for clarification?

[Espeonage]

Also, fluff is a scumtell.

[forest_air]

Also, fluff is a scumtell.

What are you referring to by that?