Dynasty Warriors Mafia (Shu Victorious)

[Vi]

Man you just hate me this game don't you Vi.

rawr
I'll certainly vouch some part of it comes with you being a Double Day Duelist

and

Roleblocker (which is a whole lot better than everyone else's role seems to be, including mine).

That and I'm becoming progressively more annoyed at how I seem to be working a lot harder at this than everyone else. My concern is that the duel will end before the claims finish because of various completely preventable reasons.

And I see 1472 as asking your opinion on what just happened.

[Gammagooey]

Probably? DUM got irritated at the number of duels that he had no say in and thinks he can help out by trying to force his biggest scumread dead and getting a cop for himself.
Maybe a 15% chance of him-scum really thinking he needs whatever his actual D. ability to avoid getting caught by other stuff or thinks he can just push it through and get much closer to a win but I don't think scum would take that chance instead of just hoping for another town vs. town duel.

Also I feel like I should add that RC is a douchebag to give +1 to my hypocritism skill since I just pulled a dumb myself as well as to state the obvious.

[Vi]

The problem is that dueling Maxous instead of mykonian is even less rational than ReaperCharlie's norm.

The problem I'm having is that with the exception of mykonian, Maxous, and probably C-worl the Town reads are starting to pile up.
But when people I have Town reads on do nonTown things I start getting twitchy.

Actually that leads to a good question in itself. What to do with C-worl?

[Vi]

Actually I don't quite know what to do with RayFrost either.

[Gammagooey]

Real-life strangulation?
If you think that myk has a serious chance of being scum that botched his ability pickup d1 then he should be your shot today since he's a liability as either alignment because of said duel, if DUM wins we could just have him investigate C-Worl.

I still wanna know why you think Katsuki is town by the way >.>

Ray is eh. I should probably reread him but I still do think he would have made the kill last night if scum and permanently roleblock/maybe other action immune scum is very very nasty. Although it might be balanced given all the other stuff in-game. Yeaah I'll go reread him.

[Vi]

Real-life strangulation?
If you think that myk has a serious chance of being scum that botched his ability pickup d1 then he should be your shot today since he's a liability as either alignment because of said duel, if DUM wins we could just have him investigate C-Worl.

...
I'm not sure if I want to shoot Today because it'll put us in 6P LyLo Tomorrow (at least I think it's LyLo). At the same time, not shooting myko and making you policy-duel him arrives at the same result, but minus one duel Tomorrow... Or perhaps worse if one D) ability is an extra kill :\

Then shooting mykonian is the better move. I just suspect that DUM is going to do something DUMb with that investigation. v.v

I still wanna know why you think Katsuki is town by the way >.>

Ray is eh. I should probably reread him but I still do think he would have made the kill last night if scum and permanently roleblock/maybe other action immune scum is very very nasty. Although it might be balanced given all the other stuff in-game. Yeaah I'll go reread him.

Hopefully all will be made clear as soon as RayFrost gets his sorry snowman butt in this thread.

[Gammagooey]

That...wasn't very helpful.

The T-bone vote wasn't GOOD but it would be fairly as ballsy as scum, and his calling out of Iec+Ludi looks pretty decent- Still a town lean.

Is it bad that I'm hoping I'm even more terrible at this game than I think I am so that Max will flip scum?

[Vi]

That...wasn't very helpful.

Unfortunately, I have my own reason for wanting RayFrost (and Katsuki) (and Maxous and C-worl) to claim at the next opportunity, claim order be darned.

[Gammagooey]

I meant the reread wasn't helpful.

And that's fine. Getting on with it since we're on a short deadline now is admittedly kind of important.

[RayFrost]

Except I've yet to come to a full conclusion on the ludi flip. When I'm still processing something like this, I hardly feel it's necessary to post "wellp, I can't really say anything useful about it right now because I'm still thinking, but yeah... I noticed it." You clearly feel otherwise. Too bad.

Zhong Hui is my name, these abilities are my game:

D) Superiority - During the day, select a player. All actions, except for votes, that target you will target them instead until the following daybreak. This does include duels.
P) Paranoia - All actions, except votes, that target you will target a random living player instead. This does include duels.

Clarified with the mod on how the duel stuff works: basically it comes to person A targets me and the duel that

actually

happens is to person R.

I've no idea on how I'd ever get my D), but I guess there's the possibility of someone having a redirect-penetration or randomized targets hitting me or something. I asked the mod and he wasn't very helpful. Basically said "you'll know when you know" :/ Might even be that if the person that duels get redirected to wins that I'd get my D) instead or something.

[Iecerint]

I'm back.

I see someone (DUM)'s already dueled out of order, and on someone who had not yet claimed, in spite of my explicit instructions to the contrary. This is suboptimal and very annoying, but still manageable if I'm not mistaken.

@ myko/Vi re: claims -- thank you.

Vi, I think the same ideal kill subset remains. DUM has complicated things by unnecessarily dueling out of order, but I still think he's very likely to be scum.

I think Maxous and C-Worl still need to claim.

Once claims have completed and Vi has used his shot, I'd like to point something out before the duel ends.

[Gammagooey]

That's amazingly ridiculous. That is the most ridiculous role I've ever, ever seen.

I mean it doesn't make sense to put on scum because you could just not claim that duels are redirected and instant mislynches if you would ever get dueled but you're basically invincible to nightkills and everything else if you don't claim and you become obvtown as town and just wow.

Ray why didn't you claim that actions wouldn't work as intended on you earlier in the game?

[Gammagooey]

and ray couldn't you start a duel on someone to get your D. ability?

[C-Worl]

Cao Hong of the Eight Tiger Generals of Wei.

D.)Protector General - You may select a player each night. They will perform no actions.

I don't have any other ability. Yes I'm aware that makes me a Roleblocker. Yes I'm aware we have a claimed RB among us. No, I don't think he's scum. No, I'm not scum. That leaves Max to claim.

[mykonian]

This is from a theoretical standpoint, and something I have thought about earlier.

If you want a scum dayvig in a game, you have a problem. The biggest problem is that scum could "outshoot" town and take out enough towny looking players making lynching in endgame a tough job. There are two roles capable of stopping this, if you don't want to give away the problem with a day-doc or day-blocker. The simplest solution is the bulletproof. However, if you think about it, this is very little defense against a very powerful scum. Then the next role is more odd: the Nexus. The person which makes sure that all actions directed at him will target some random other. This one also can't get shot. From this viewpoint, Rayfrosts claim points to Vi possibly being, with or without a team. (Day-SK's aren't unheard of, but we'll leave that to the mafia).

Then, the last solution to the problem isn't an actual solution. It is giving the town more shots so that they won't be outshot: Gamma.

This all breaks down if you notice that RF can't also be targeted by duels. It's odd right from the start as the duelmechanic is Spyrex's baby, and this is forcing a RF lynch. It would be a defense against both Gamma and Vi, and seen the problems Vi alone would give as scum, both are quite out of the question. Ray's role, taking that into account, points to gamma being town and Vi being not part of the mafia (though day-sk is possible, which can be left for endgame) and RF being scum.

Rayfrost with that suddenly shot down my townread on him.

unvote vote Rayfrost

[Iecerint]

DUM dueled Max on the previous page.

[mykonian]

sigh. It's early. And I made a decent analysis. But yeah, not too sharp yet.

Do I need to explain why we want both dead? I think we really want a no winner here. Though I'm not going to vote yet, because I should first see what happened again with kills and deaths. And I should read some claims as to find out why the hell DUM is the one starting a duel.

[Iecerint]

Please don't move on the duel until claims are finished and I've said my piece. Day ends when the duel ends.

I mean, you are welcome to try figuring it out, but ye know.

[RayFrost]

That's amazingly ridiculous. That is the most ridiculous role I've ever, ever seen.

I mean it doesn't make sense to put on scum because you could just not claim that duels are redirected and instant mislynches if you would ever get dueled but you're basically invincible to nightkills and everything else if you don't claim and you become obvtown as town and just wow.

Ray why didn't you claim that actions wouldn't work as intended on you earlier in the game?

Erm, I wasn't sure about the benefit of drawing nightkills to (possibly) kill scum vs claiming to prevent madness. It didn't seem like anybody was going to come for me initially, so I didn't bring it up. When it seemed like people intended for it to happen, I spoke up on it.

And yeah, I hadn't really thought about initiating a duel. Can't believe I overlooked that.

[RayFrost]

I don't understand what myko said at all. Can someone give the "for stupid people" version? All I got was "ray's role claim makes me think he is scum"

[SpyreX]

Duel in Progress.

Duel ends: Tuesday, June 7th 10:30 PM PST

[mykonian]

you aren't stupid.

Try to tell me what you think I was saying. I'll tell you you were right.

[RayFrost]

If you want a scum dayvig in a game, you have a problem. The biggest problem is that scum could "outshoot" town and take out enough towny looking players making lynching in endgame a tough job. There are two roles capable of stopping this, if you don't want to give away the problem with a day-doc or day-blocker. The simplest solution is the bulletproof. However, if you think about it, this is very little defense against a very powerful scum. Then the next role is more odd: the Nexus. The person which makes sure that all actions directed at him will target some random other. This one also can't get shot. From this viewpoint, Rayfrosts claim points to Vi possibly being, with or without a team. (Day-SK's aren't unheard of, but we'll leave that to the mafia).

"Ray's claim means it's possible for Vi-scum"

Then, the last solution to the problem isn't an actual solution. It is giving the town more shots so that they won't be outshot: Gamma.

This all breaks down if you notice that RF can't also be targeted by duels. It's odd right from the start as the duelmechanic is Spyrex's baby, and this is forcing a RF lynch. It would be a defense against both Gamma and Vi, and seen the problems Vi alone would give as scum, both are quite out of the question. Ray's role, taking that into account, points to gamma being town and Vi being not part of the mafia (though day-sk is possible, which can be left for endgame) and RF being scum.

Rayfrost with that suddenly shot down my townread on him.

unvote vote Rayfrost

"But it doesn't really"

"And Ray's ability is antithetical to the duel mechanic"

"So ray is scum because his role indicates Vi-notmaf and gamma-town"

[RayFrost]

I don't follow the logic you use for all that, but that's what I got out of what you said.

[mykonian]

I skipped a few logical steps. Because they are boring and confusing.

Vi-maf and Gamma maf together isn't possible.
Rayfrost is the antithesis of their powers, can't be killed, can't be dueled.
it makes no sense protecting someone that heavily, and with such an ugly role (the nexus) if there aren't balance considerations involved.

Vi-maf, gamma town and RF gives something where RF's dueldefense makes no sense.
Gamma-maf, Vi-town is a plain nexus while there are better solutions against Gamma scum (one is simply voting against him)
Leaving Rayfrost maf. Because there is no way a nexus was introduced into the town. MS hates the role, and in hindsight, a good way to soften this would be to introduce it on the scum-side.

Or it is a fakeclaim to avoid being dueled or targeted by Vi. Which isn't entirely improbably. And in which case you are scum too.