Return to Gambits (SK Win!)

[C-Worl]

(C-Worl): I think I saw what CMAR saw, but I'll keep it to myself. However, why do you think CMAR is townish? What has he done to make you think he's town? You just said you haven't seen him do anything scummy, but that doesn't make him town either.

I generally don't think his play has been scummy and since he has a wagon on him when he hasn't really done anything scummy it makes me feel he might be town even more unless other people are seeing something that I'm not.

[CryMeARiver]

It's been too long since I've posted in this game but I had to marshal the senior graduation and I've been gone all weekend with SAT Subject Tests and such.
Tomorrow shall have posting. Vor sure.

[Ironhead]

Post 153 (Ironhead):

What's RQS?

>_>

Random Question Stage.

I'm still satisfied with my vote on Earworm. Several others have cast suspicion on Earworm as well, and the way he bolded his protest in post #221 does not look townish to me -- particularly because it was a defense, and not scum-hunting. BUT, the only other player voting him is the guy enduring bandwagon momentum right now. I'm not sure how genuine this vote is -- is Cobblerfone voting Earworm because he thinks he is scummy, or because he sees Earworm as a patsy? And, if Earworm is as suspicious as others have noted, why does he only have two votes?

[Nocmen]

Post 107 (Nocmen): Horrible. That post you quoted wasn't WIFOM at all. Even if it were WIFOM, I don't like the way you tried to present it. "Not too important, but I need to point out the use of WIFOM this early." Okay, why? Do you think it's scummy? You're trying to spread suspicion around subtly.

Somethings aren't scummy on their own. However, when it's done repeatedly, or constantly, that's when it becomes suspicious.

Post 115 (Nocmen): Jil's interactions with Vezo are null at best, in my opinion.

Differing opinions

Post 174 (Nocmen): That's not a case, and even if it were, someone else already brought it up.

So this is a scum reason because I misattributed the person who had the case on C-worl? Because I asked a unrelated person who brought up the vote their opinion on it?

Post 220 (Nocmen): I feel like you're intentionally not understanding earworm. >_>

Am I the only one that sees the contradiction in earworm?

Okay, I'm done. I got the worst overall vibes from Nocmen, though several others are close behind. After a while, perhaps, I'll sum up my reads in a list (with reasoning, of course) and do a wagon analysis. The latter might have to wait until Day 2, though.

Why wait, when you seem to like and dislike some of the lists posted in the thread so far? What are your other main reads?

I'm not sure how genuine this vote is -- is Cobblerfone voting Earworm because he thinks he is scummy, or because he sees Earworm as a patsy? And, if Earworm is as suspicious as others have noted, why does he only have two votes?

I'm voting cobbler because I see him as scummier than earworm. I'd vote both if I could. Cobbler's reasons for voting earworm seem to be a slip about sk claiming, looking at the post where he voted earworm. What I want to know, is when Cobber started suspecting earworm. He ignores him at first, then puts him in an interest list.

Which leaves me to repeat a question to earworm, because he seems to have been distracted with the contradiction stuff:

Reasons why I voted Cobblerfone:

I don't particularly like this public rumination about CMAR's role.
I'm not liking

this

vote on Surye. Seems really reaching to me.
The fact that you said lynch cops gives my pause for concern also.

Answer to Cobblerfone's question:

The chances are with four scum and sixteen players that one scum was on the four person CMAR wagon. That's all.

Which one do you think is most likely then, from the 4 people on it?

[Empking]

Vote Count 10

Cobblerfone (4) - earworm, Nocmen, vezokprika, DeityKabuto
DeityKabuto
TheJakalope (1) - CryMeARiver
Nocmen (1) - sorasgoof
TheMask
Monk
Surye (1) - TheMask,
CryMeARiver (1) - Surye
jilynne1991 (1) - Sathoris
vezokprika
Sathoris
earworm (2) - Ironhead, Cobblerfone
C-Worl (1) - Wredfar
Wredfar (1) - Monk
Ironhead
sorasgoof

Note Voting: TheJakalope, C-Worl, jilynne1991

With 16 alive, its 9 to lynch.

[DeityKabuto]

I got sidetracked while catching up yesterday, so let me go ahead and start again. I'll post my thoughts as I read from post 80.

*Don't see anything of real interest on page 4

Post 103 (jilynne1991): ...what was that about?
Post 105 (Surye): The point is that you answered a question directed towards another player. Effectively, you ruined a decent reaction test. Don't answer questions for other players. Also, you call CMAR "not protown" for discouraging questioning, but that's not what he was doing at all.
Post 107 (Nocmen): Horrible. That post you quoted wasn't WIFOM at all. Even if it were WIFOM, I don't like the way you tried to present it. "Not too important, but I need to point out the use of WIFOM this early." Okay, why? Do you think it's scummy? You're trying to spread suspicion around subtly.
Post 108 (earworm): Ha. Earworm sees the fallacies of post 107.
Post 115 (Nocmen): Jil's interactions with Vezo are null at best, in my opinion.
Post 116 (vezokpiraka): >_>
Post 121 (Ironhead): I really like this post by Ironhead. Just got a strong town vibe here.
Post 125 (vezokpiraka): I lol'ed.
Post 131 (Surye): I also like this post. A list of reads with REASONS.
Post 136 (The Mask): Don't like the Surye vote.
Post 138 (C-Worl): I think I saw what CMAR saw, but I'll keep it to myself. However, why do you think CMAR is townish? What has he done to make you think he's town? You just said you haven't seen him do anything scummy, but that doesn't make him town either.
Post 141 (jilynne1991): I've already said I don't like this, with reasoning and questions.
Post 143 (jilynne1991): What is this? Nobody had cursed in quite a few posts. Also, did you forget your outburst in post 103?
Post 145 (Ironhead): Gladly.
Post 153 (Ironhead):

What's RQS?

>_>
Post 154 (Cobblerfone): Niiiice excuse for not placing a vote. You don't need to wait for other people to start placing votes.
Post 157 (wredfar): First I've seen of Wredfar. Already don't like the posting. You give no new reasoning whatsoever. You basically just copied Surye's reasoning.
Post 163 (DeityKabuto): Good, good. Somebody else saw what I see.
Post 164 (Cobblerfone): Cobbler also sees how bad post 157 was. However, I don't agree with any of your reads and you have no scum reads. Bad.
Post 167 (Surye): I agree.
*Arguments between Cobbler and Surye
Post 174 (Nocmen): That's not a case, and even if it were, someone else already brought it up.
Post 189 (Cobblerfone): Still don't like how you don't have any scum reads, even though you sort of explain why.
Post 190 (monk): Another bad list. No reasoning for anything
Post 199 (Sathoris): I agreed with most of your list until your vote. What about monk's list in post 190? Why did you vote for Jil when monk also posted a list with no reasoning? I realize I did this as well, but I hadn't read that far into the thread.
Post 207 (vezokpiraka): Okay, you saw enough through Cobbler's interactions with other players to vote him. However, ...
Post 208 (DeityKabuto): ...this is a horrible vote. Almost wipes out all town cred I had personally given Deity.
Post 220 (Nocmen): I feel like you're intentionally not understanding earworm. >_>

VOTE: Nocmen

Okay, I'm done. I got the worst overall vibes from Nocmen, though several others are close behind. After a while, perhaps, I'll sum up my reads in a list (with reasoning, of course) and do a wagon analysis. The latter might have to wait until Day 2, though.

I like how you put him on blast.

Unvote
Vote Nocmen

[Cobblerfone]

What I want to know, is when Cobber started suspecting earworm. He ignores him at first, then puts him in an interest list.

I first thought something was fishy with earworm when he said that it was likely that CMAR already had a scum vote. (I pulled a similiar stunt in Cthulhu Speed Mafia.)

Am I the only one that sees the contradiction in earworm?

No.

[Empking]

wredfar has been prodded.

[earworm]

Okay, so there are 2 cops. Both would claim cop if it was made today, which the MC isn't happening. However, you at first said the only way for a third claim(fake claim) would be the chance that the SK claims cop. And now you're saying that mafia would be more likely to claim than the sk? Which is it? That's the contradiction.

*facepalm*

did you even READ my post?

-1- we get a cop claim today. NO CC's. We lynch someone else and wait for tommorrow. ALL COPS SELF INVESTIGATE. We ask him his sanity. Ask if anybody wants to cc his sanity. If yes we keep our eyes on the two of them and continue to ask them for results. If the scum kills the cop, scum dies next day.

IF WE GET A COP CLAIM TODAY NOBODY SHOULD CC.

We wait for tomorrow and ask the claimed cop his sanity. THEN ask for CCs. That narrows down their role and anyone who wants to cc must claim

that specific role

. (because all cops

will

self investigate tonight)

[jilynne1991]

Earworm, something about what you say seems scummy and townie at the same time. Later today or tomorrow, expect a post from me trying to pin point exactly what it is, since I'm pretty busy right now.

[wredfar]

i'm here. I don't like Cworl's posts because all hes done is talk about scum hunting without actually doing it, and his early posts are all panicky defenses to a rvs wagon.

[jilynne1991]

You're right about his panicky defenses, but I've though about the fact that maybe he has been scum hunting, and it's just that he's not so sure...

[Cobblerfone]

IF WE GET A COP CLAIM TODAY NOBODY SHOULD CC. We wait for tomorrow and ask the claimed cop his sanity. THEN ask for CCs. That narrows down their role and anyone who wants to cc must claim that specific role. (because all cops will self investigate tonight)

Ah. You see, that's why you need to be more clear:

if

we get a cop claim today NO

one should

CC. We lynch someone else and wait for tommorrow. ALL

OF THE

COPS

SHOULD

SELF INVESTIGATE. We ask the

claimed cop

his sanity.

We then

ask if anybody wants to cc his sanity. If yes we keep our eyes on the two of them and continue to ask them for results. If the scum kills the cop, scum dies next day.

You still changed the hypothetical scenario but you get points for thinking outside the box I guess. The SK remark is weird but not incriminating by itself. It was that combined with the change of scenario. It seemed made up to make yourself look more town. But since you actually came up with a better plan to prevent that scenario, I think that's enough to warrant an unvote.

Though I have to ask: How does that last sentence work?

If the scum kills the cop, scum dies next day.

UNVOTE:

[vezokpiraka]

Oh God.

Cobblerfone is still scum.

I still think we should move on.

[Sathoris]

Post 199 (Sathoris): I agreed with most of your list until your vote. What about monk's list in post 190? Why did you vote for Jil when monk also posted a list with no reasoning? I realize I did this as well, but I hadn't read that far into the thread.

Monk didn't post his list under the pretense of explaining his reads. A simple town/scum list is fine by me, albeit pretty useless on day one. But a list with reasons that simply say "null" or "leaning that way" without any actual reference to posts or interactions are different.

Oh God.

Cobblerfone is still scum.

I still think we should move on.

You still think? You haven't mentioned anyone else except C-worl on the first page of RVS.

[Empking]

Surye has been prodded. The Jakalope will be replaced.

[Nocmen]

Okay, so there are 2 cops. Both would claim cop if it was made today, which the MC isn't happening. However, you at first said the only way for a third claim(fake claim) would be the chance that the SK claims cop. And now you're saying that mafia would be more likely to claim than the sk? Which is it? That's the contradiction.

*facepalm*

did you even READ my post?

-1- we get a cop claim today. NO CC's. We lynch someone else and wait for tommorrow. ALL COPS SELF INVESTIGATE. We ask him his sanity. Ask if anybody wants to cc his sanity. If yes we keep our eyes on the two of them and continue to ask them for results. If the scum kills the cop, scum dies next day.

IF WE GET A COP CLAIM TODAY NOBODY SHOULD CC.

We wait for tomorrow and ask the claimed cop his sanity. THEN ask for CCs. That narrows down their role and anyone who wants to cc must claim

that specific role

. (because all cops

will

self investigate tonight)

finally, you make sense. But you still were making too many assumptions and changing scenarios.

Oh God.

Cobblerfone is still scum.

I still think we should move on.

Move on to who? Why?

[Empking]

Ine replaces TheJakalope

[Pine]

Ine replaces TheJakalope

It's spelled "Pine".

I'm a VT. <--Gambit?

Anyone care to bring me up to speed?

[Surye]

Sorry for my inactivity, we got 2 kittens, and I've been the only one home, they kept me more busy than expected.

Okay, I've read up, and have a few things to say:
- Looking back over CMAR, I still have yet to see a protown post. From the claiming nonsense, to the "I called TheJakalope out as scum!!" while just throwing it there without explaination, to his "you're town, you're town" posts. This guy is still suspect #1 for me, and until he posts more, that won't change. I've got to look into how his wagon got derailed.
- I still don't like Cobbler as scum, and don't see the cases, he's been genuinely scumhunting.
- I still don't like C-worl's early reactions, but I'm not convinced yet.

[Pine]

C-Worl is always scummy as hell as Town, and Town-ish when scum. I've played a lot of games with him and hydra'd with him, and the fact that there's apparently a lot of suspicion on him is actually a few points in his favor.

Unvote

I'll read through this evening.

[jilynne1991]

Wait so he acts scummy when he's town, and he seems town when he's scum? Hmmm, but what if he suddenly switched this time or something? I honestly don't believe in meta's, but this is when my paranoia kicks in and makes me wonder if you guys might be scum buddies. . .

[Pine]

Odds are very unlikely that both I and someone I know so well would pull scum in the same game (~1/9). Plus, I wouldn't buddy so hard to a mate, and certainly not without reading the context.

[Sathoris]

Odds mean nothing, there's a 1/16 chance I got the SK role, would it deter you from suspecting me just because I mentioned the low odds? And you mentioned buddying so hard. I didn't see any buddying and the over defensness your're now showing makes me think there's more to it.

[Pine]

Think whatever you want. I haven't read past the first page yet, and my comment was purely about meta. Take the recently completed Call of Cthulhufish game. C-Worl's first finished scum game, and everyone's strongest townread. Elsewhere, he's always a scum pick and keeps flipping Town. I've learned not to trust my insticts where he's concerned.