Mini 1185 - Artemis Fowl Mafia Game Over

[vollkan]

That's a logical fallacy. Just because you admit something doesn't mean that there isn't a scum intent behind doing it.

It just means you are freely admitting that you're scummy.

Which is fine by me.

You've missed the point.

The "scum intent" you were asserting was "opportunism". You think opportunism is proved by the fact that I was following AGM.

My point is that the following of AGM was not "opportunistic" in any scummy, exploitative sense - but was simply me announcing my agreement with AGM and following him alternatively. What are you suggesting that I do? Announce my agreement with AGM that the matter is worth applying pressure over, but then proceed to vote Katsuki for being a cupcake?

Unvote, Vote volkan

A live demonstration of my prior point. Will LLD and Katsuki call this scummy when it agrees with them?

Tonight at 11.

But that's different, because Ellibereth was agreeing

with LLD

. Agreeing with LLD isn't scummy or opportunistic. Because...well...LLD likes LLD

Elli, that's three votes you've placed so far this game, with no explanation. Why so CES/Jack?

AGM, not like my questioning Elli means anything at this point?

Kidgloves for Elli. See above.

[Ellibereth]

But seriously, volkan, first question post 39, something feels disingenuous and off mhmhm.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

You don't get my meaning, clearly.

AGM, you know what I mean by CES yes? You know how much I hate that god damn style of play?

[vollkan]

But seriously, volkan, first question post 39, something feels disingenuous and off mhmhm.

What I mean is it wasn't clear to me whether he is saying that he recently took six months off, or whether this is his FIRST GAME after taking six months off (the difference being the reasonableness of forgetting to confirm)

[Ellibereth]

Welp, I had a roughly 6-month hiatus from mafia, and the two games that have started since I came back both had in-thread confirms. I don't have a "reply with a /confirm" reflex.

Looks quite clear to me.
This is his third game post-hiatus. The previous two had in-thread confirms.
And fairly easy to verify too...

[Ellibereth]

Ok one was actually a replace-in but still.

[vollkan]

This is his third game post-hiatus. The previous two had in-thread confirms.
And fairly easy to verify too...

Well, in that case he's made a reasonable explanation so

Unvote

.

Ok one was actually a replace-in but still.

Which I assume wasn't reply by PM.

[Ellibereth]

yeahyeahyeah
what I don't get is why you had to ask him in the first place since it's already clear and even if not something you can look up.

[vollkan]

yeahyeahyeah
what I don't get is why you had to ask him in the first place since it's already clear and even if not something you can look up.

I read it differently (as saying something more like "two other games since I came back had thread confirmation"). As for why I didn't check, it's generally better for accountability purposes to make people declare meta facts about themselves, even if it can be easily checked.

[Katsuki]

Unvote, Vote volkan

A live demonstration of my prior point. Will LLD and Katsuki call this scummy when it agrees with them?

Tonight at 11.

We do not call obvtown players scummy.

[bobsnox]

Wait, vollkan? What about MPR? I kinda like AGM's little theory.

UNVOTE: LLD :ungrudge:

VOTE: MPR

(LLD will get it <_<)

[Katsuki]

So did you ever bother reading past page 1, bob?

[AlmasterGM]

AGM, you know what I mean by CES yes? You know how much I hate that god damn style of play?

I hate it too - it only works if the person is extremely effective. For example, Jack. For not example, Elli and bobsnox.

[Katsuki]

Hi PIKAscum.

[Kwanton]

Sorry for not getting here earlier! I was traveling and din't expect this to start until I arrived. Onto business now:
VOTE: volkan
For not spelling his name the way it should be spelled. And for not liking RVS. Why didn't you do something yourself to get us out of RVS?

This post does not smell good. Two people have called vollkan real-scum. You cannot walk in and RVS-vote him without commenting on that.

Acceptable lynches: MehPlusRawr, SleepyKrew.

I'd like sleepy to address this. Even if this wasn't just a weird random vote the case on volk wasn't strong enough to warrant more votes. He put the second vote on someone based on a logical reasoning (even though it means nothing day 1). Even though he was quick to jump on it, that doesn't stick out as too scummy to me. A second vote on someone just puts pressure on them to reply to an argument.

That being said AGM's case on MPR, although logical, is still pretty weak and I have no reason to suspect MPR either. That just leaves sleepy. I think him jumping on vollkan, random or not, is more questionable than what anyone else has done.

unvote vote sleepy

[Nexus]

Votecount 1.2:

vollkan (5): Lady Lambdadelta, Leiskyrie, Katsuki, Ellibereth, SleepyKrew
MehPlusRawr (2): AlamasterGM, bobsnox
SleepyKrew (2): kiwieagle, Kwanton
bobsnox (1): DeathNote
Ellibereth (1): Acosmist

Not voting: MehPlusRawr, vollkan

The deadline is at 8am GMT on the 20th June 2011. With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

[Leiskyrie]

Technically, I am part of the alignment-confirmed masonry too : <

MPR's late confirming to me is a null-tell. I posted before realizing we were supposed to confirm by PM.

[SleepyKrew]

[quote="AlmasterGM

Sorry for not getting here earlier! I was traveling and din't expect this to start until I arrived. Onto business now:
VOTE: volkan
For not spelling his name the way it should be spelled. And for not liking RVS. Why didn't you do something yourself to get us out of RVS?

This post does not smell good. Two people have called vollkan real-scum. You cannot walk in and RVS-vote him without commenting on that. [/quote]
I think he's real-scum too. Allow me to dissect my post.
1. Spelling:
RVS joke
2. Not liking RVS:
Leads into the next point
3. Not getting us out of RVS himself:
And here's the seriousness. If you dislike RVS so much, then DO something about it.

And something that happened after the post:
So, MPR has given a proper defense. It's been checked, verified, etc. Why didn't you check it yourself instead of saying "Bah! I'm the interrogator! Bah!"

This also answers the other question to me, correct?

[SleepyKrew]

Tag fail T_T

[MehPlusRawr]

VOTE: VOLLKAN

THE MUFFIN SCUM

WE GOTS SCUM ALREADY
ELLI GET OVER HERE, NEED YOU ON THIS ONE.

LEI IS TOWN BY VIRTUE OF BEING A CUPCAKE.

LLD IS MY ARTEMIS AND TOWN BEYOND BELIEF.
ALIGNMENT-CONFIRMED MASONS FTW.

MPR are you town? If so, vote vollkanmuffinscum.

OKAY KATS <3 (SRSBSNS VOTE BY THE WAY)

VOTE: VOLLKANMUFFINSCUM

So you tell people not to RVS but then you tell him he did a bad thing by not doing a random vote?

If his defense is going to be "it was a mistake" then he should just brush it off and keep playing. But he didn't, he halted normal play (no RVS) and just defended himself. This is a scumtell.

I will admit this is a good point, though, so kiwi is probably town.

vote kwanton

Ellibereth is avoiding me on purpose, confirm vote, time to win this game singlehandedly.

unvote vote ellibereth

?

Self vote with no content, then blatant sheeping next post still with no content? Not sure if noobtown or scum.

Scum? It's not scummy, it's just strange and silly. Not even the most awful scum would play this poorly as a result of being scum. Kwanton is null at worst. Maybe even a little town.

Sorry for not getting here earlier! I was traveling and din't expect this to start until I arrived. Onto business now:
VOTE: volkan
For not spelling his name the way it should be spelled. And for not liking RVS. Why didn't you do something yourself to get us out of RVS?

This post does not smell good. Two people have called vollkan real-scum. You cannot walk in and RVS-vote him without commenting on that.

Acceptable lynches: MehPlusRawr, SleepyKrew.

1. I prefer not to continue RVSing after something of interest has happened.
2. WIFOM.
3.

Actually, y'know, I just glanced at the pm, saw my role, and exited it. I then promptly forgot about the game until I just got a reminder that it started.

...and you've been playing mafia for how long? Since when do you NOT have to confirm your role PM, and since when do you not do it right away?

Welp, I had a roughly 6-month hiatus from mafia, and the two games that have started since I came back both had in-thread confirms. I don't have a "reply with a /confirm" reflex.

There's no random vote because it's really not RVS any more.

You haven't played any games for six months other than this one?

VOTE: VOLLKAN

THE MUFFIN SCUM

WE GOTS SCUM ALREADY
ELLI GET OVER HERE, NEED YOU ON THIS ONE.

LEI IS TOWN BY VIRTUE OF BEING A CUPCAKE.

LLD IS MY ARTEMIS AND TOWN BEYOND BELIEF.
ALIGNMENT-CONFIRMED MASONS FTW.

MPR are you town? If so, vote vollkanmuffinscum.

Someone's ingested waay too much frosting

For not spelling his name the way it should be spelled. And for not liking RVS. Why didn't you do something yourself to get us out of RVS?

My view (see here for a MD example) is that RVS and is generally useless. Every alternative that I've either personally tried (self-voting to draw out stupid reflexive players) or have seen (RQS) doesn't work much better (or worse) either. AGM came up with something genuinely novel, so I was willing to try it. No matter how you start the game things move eventually, so it isn't a big deal, but if there is a better way to do it I am interested in learning it.

(Also, the attitude that anybody who doesn't care about RVS but doesn't bend over backwards trying to find an alternative is scum is incredibly frustrating)

Let me put it in terms you'll find easier to understand then?

"HERP DERP I'M VOLKAN. HEY AGM, YOU'RE STARTING A SUPER SRS WAGON? AND I CAN JOIN WITH IMPUNITY? LET ME HOP ON THAT BITCH."

In other words, his joining you on your confirmation time crusade was the most opportunistic vote I've seen on Page 1. Ever.

It was totally trying to ride your coattails.

You realise that "OMG HE IS OPPORTUNISTIC SHEEPING" doesn't have much application when the voter freely admits that's what they're doing? You want it in bold:

I was totally riding AGM's coattails

(Though, the "impunity" thing is just BS. You're seriously suggesting that, having proclaimed my view that the line of argument was reasonable, I'd not come under scrutiny if it was: a) Proven to be crap; or b) Remained on the wagon in circumstances where it became scummy)

This is the third game I've joined since coming back.

Kats has ALWAYS ingested too much frosting.

Welp, I had a roughly 6-month hiatus from mafia, and the two games that have started since I came back both had in-thread confirms. I don't have a "reply with a /confirm" reflex.

Looks quite clear to me.
This is his third game post-hiatus. The previous two had in-thread confirms.
And fairly easy to verify too...

Exactalties.

Wait, vollkan? What about MPR? I kinda like AGM's little theory.

UNVOTE: LLD :ungrudge:

VOTE: MPR

(LLD will get it <_<)

Have you tried, you know, reading the thread?

[quote="AlmasterGM]

Sorry for not getting here earlier! I was traveling and din't expect this to start until I arrived. Onto business now:
VOTE: volkan
For not spelling his name the way it should be spelled. And for not liking RVS. Why didn't you do something yourself to get us out of RVS?

This post does not smell good. Two people have called vollkan real-scum. You cannot walk in and RVS-vote him without commenting on that.

I think he's real-scum too. Allow me to dissect my post.
1. Spelling:
RVS joke
2. Not liking RVS:
Leads into the next point
3. Not getting us out of RVS himself:
And here's the seriousness. If you dislike RVS so much, then DO something about it.

And something that happened after the post:
So, MPR has given a proper defense. It's been checked, verified, etc. Why didn't you check it yourself instead of saying "Bah! I'm the interrogator! Bah!"

This also answers the other question to me, correct?[/quote]
Bad. Bad, bad, bad. I'm okay with lynching you right now.

You do not vote at a point like that with your motivations unclear this way.

You know why? Because when people call you out, you can say "I was just RVSing," or, if they don't, then you can ride the wagon all the way to a lynch and say that it was a serious vote. This is not town.

[SleepyKrew]

UNVOTE: volkan
Well, I guss it's time for him to claim... already? L-2 now, with my vote in essence on him.

My motivations were plenty clear. It was a completely serious reason. I just felt sad for having missed RVS, so I threw some in there as well.

[kiwieagle]

L-1 so quickly?
what did he do? just make a meaningless vote on page 1 just cause he agreed with someone?

[bobsnox]

ahh I see my problem. I generally ignore Katsuki's posts because she has a history of pissing me off. BUT I obviously need to let that go.

UNVOTE: MPR

Vollkan is at L-1?

Time to ===[] ?

[SleepyKrew]

L-2 after my unvote. Bob, please read.

[DeathNote]

God I am so confused.