Open 302: JUNGLE REPUB nope game over! Party time!

[havingfitz]

Mod...you've had three people on significant v/LAs in the past week.

With half the players still alive occupying scum slots do you really think it is fair to town to reduce the time available to flush out/ID scum?

[havingfitz]

EBWOP...nevermind, I just noticed a week from now almost coincides with a normal three day deadline anyway. v/LAs not helping things out.

BTW mod

...I looked at the countdown and it was not very clear on when the deadline is. It just shows how long the day has been going...not when it ends.

Link now fixed.

[Umbrage]

Vote Count:

neil1113 (2) - Regfan, DeityKabuto
havingfitz (2) - Wickedestjr, MagnaofIllusion
DeityKabuto (2) - havingfitz, neil1113
HezLucky (1) - zMuffinMan
MagnaofIllusion (1) - HezLucky

I realize the V/LAs may be a problem, however seeing as how every player in the game made at least one post on the last page, they should've seen my deadline warning earlier in the thread and raised concerns then. Nobody appears to have forgotten about the game or lost track of it. I don't see much point in keeping the thread open indefinitely as long as all the players continue pushing for their ideal lynch.

Currently 8 votes are spread out between 3 major wagons and 2 minor ones. A week ago there was only 1 major wagon and 3 minor ones. This is a significant step backwards. I don't think the problem is inactivity, I think it's the refusal of the players to compromise. A time limit should solve this. Vote not for the person you find scummy, but that the entire town finds scummy and we'll be fine.

I will grant an extension if there are still V/LA players at that point AND there has been some real progress made towards deciding a lynch.

Again, in case someone missed it on the last page, this is the current deadline.

[Wickedestjr]

I haven't gotten much time to spend on this game, but I completely agree with Umbrage that we aren't going anywhere.

So, I'm going to

Unvote. Vote: neil1113

. There seems to be a lot more interest in lynching him than there is in lynching havingfitz and I think DK is town. While I beleive that neil1113 is more likely to be mafia than werewolf, this is still a good lynch because I believe he's most likely to not be town and I think we get more information from this lynch.

[DeityKabuto]

havingfitz, I am not scum, you are heading in the wrong direction, sir.

[HezLucky]

With 8 alive and only one kill per night, I'm not proposing no lynch or anything, but I could really care less if we hit deadline without a lynch. (that brings us to 7, which is statistically better for the town. Am I wrong?)

I would be playing against my win condition if I were to vote for anyone other than Magna or Muffin at this point.

Accidental no lynch makes 7. Then we're in the same situation as before. I'd rather lynch scum, but it seems you guys don't want to do that.

[zMuffinMan]

Plan of action: lynch Hez.

He flips werewolf, yay.

He flips town/mafia, well, we can go from there.

Hez has been at best a weak town read if not a scum read for everyone in this game, right? Yet people are willing to delay his lynch until mylo or lylo? How does that make sense?

[HezLucky]

He flips town/mafia, well, we can go from there.

elaborate on this please.

[HezLucky]

What, exactly, do you plan on doing when I flip town besides winning the game for your scumfaction?

[zMuffinMan]

In you did flip town/mafia, I'd look closely at MoI and hf.

But you're a werewolf, so why does that matter?

[HezLucky]

Why hf? He's not pushing me at all.

[zMuffinMan]

What does that have to do with anything?

PoE, VCA and NK WIFOM. If you're not a werewolf, at least one of MoI or hf is a werewolf.

[HezLucky]

What does that have to do with anything?

PoE, VCA and NK WIFOM. If you're not a werewolf, at least one of MoI or hf is a werewolf.

In the interests of having something to pin you to later

If I understand you correctly:

There is at least one werewolf in {Hez, MoI, HF}

Is there anyone in this game who you feel very confident is NOT a werewolf?

[HezLucky]

And you understand why we're having this discussion, right Muffin?

[zMuffinMan]

If I understand you correctly:

There is at least one werewolf in {Hez, MoI, HF}

Yes.

Is there anyone in this game who you feel very confident is NOT a werewolf?

No. I don't think DK is a werewolf, I think neil is more likely to be mafia than a werewolf, I think Regfan is more likely mafia than a werewolf (although he would fit as a werewolf partner to either MoI or hf). I'm not going to bet money on being right.

And you understand why we're having this discussion, right Muffin?

I thought I did before you asked this question. Now I don't. Why are we having this discussion, Hez?

[HezLucky]

Thank you for that. We got what I needed.

The reason we were having this discussion was because your entire Day today has consisted of nothing but pushing that "Hez is a werewolf and Wicked is his partner". I'm not sure you have posted a single other read all day, so if the time comes and I am lynched and pop up as anything but werewolf, you will go "Oh shucks I was wrong" and, having not posted any other reads, will lynch whoever you please.

Thankfully, now you are accountable for your actions. Although, I am uncomfortable with you lynching me, bussing MoI tomorrow and riding the bus to victory. Something needs to be done about that.

[zMuffinMan]

Well, that would require you not being a werewolf and me being MoI's partner.

So no, there's nothing that needs to be done about that.

[HezLucky]

Tomorrow's going to suck for you.

Unless this town is as stupid as I think it is.

[HezLucky]

VCAing today, since it's clear nobody will listen to a damn thing I say about Magna and Muffin.

(yo I've, like, never done a VCA before. So if this is totally off let me know)

Neil's wagon hit 4.

neil1113 (4) - Regfan, Wickedestjr, DeityKabuto, MagnaofIllusion (One vote away from lynch!)
HezLucky (1) - zMuffinMan
MagnaofIllusion (1) - HezLucky
DeityKabuto (1) - havingfitz

Not Voting: neil1113

And I'm thinking -- what if Neil is scum? and what if his buddy, seeing that I didn't want to hammer Neil, thought
the chances of Neil's lynch were very small and thus stayed off it rather than bus? This would make either Muffin or
Having as Neil's buddy.

Then the wagon got smaller:

Vote Count:

neil1113 (3) - Regfan, DeityKabuto, MagnaofIllusion
HezLucky (1) - zMuffinMan
MagnaofIllusion (1) - HezLucky
DeityKabuto (1) - havingfitz

Not Voting: neil1113, Wickedestjr

Maybe Wicked is scum? and thought "Hez won't lynch Neil, and it's highly unlikely the other two can agree, so if I unvote Neil now
I can save him completely".

Vote Count:

neil1113 (2) - Regfan, DeityKabuto
HezLucky (1) - zMuffinMan
MagnaofIllusion (1) - HezLucky
DeityKabuto (1) - havingfitz
havingfitz (1) - Wickedestjr

Not Voting: neil1113, MagnaofIllusion

What's changed? Magna is no longer voting. And wicked is voting for havingfitz. I really can't gather any information from this. Note
that a counterwagon has not yet formed though.

Vote Count:

neil1113 (2) - Regfan, DeityKabuto
havingfitz (2) - Wickedestjr, MagnaofIllusion
HezLucky (1) - zMuffinMan
MagnaofIllusion (1) - HezLucky
DeityKabuto (1) - havingfitz

Not Voting: neil1113

Now Magna has started a counterwagon on havingfitz. What if, Magna, as the third vote on the Neil wagon, was bussing HIS buddy, and is now
building a counterwagon that has a shot of getting going?

Vote Count:

neil1113 (2) - Regfan, DeityKabuto
havingfitz (2) - Wickedestjr, MagnaofIllusion
DeityKabuto (2) - havingfitz, neil1113
HezLucky (1) - zMuffinMan
MagnaofIllusion (1) - HezLucky

This is the most recent votecount. Now Neil has voted DK. Maybe as a potential lynch target, Neil does not want to vote having because he is not
confident in his ability to close out the game?

Are Neil and havingfitz scum together? (Surely Magna and Muffin are the other scum)

I'm going to look at the rest of the game.

Neil/havingfitz being scum together would be consistent with the following:

Twistedspoon (7) - zMuffinMan, Wickedestjr, Caboose, Sloth, MagnaofIllusion, Regfan, DeityKabuto (HAMMER!)
Empking (1) - cjdrum
DeityKabuto (1) - Twistedspoon
neil1113 (1) - Empking
HezLucky (1) - neil1113
MagnaofIllusion (1) - HezLucky

This is the Day One lynchwagon. Notice Havingfitz (Sloth) is on the TS mislynch, while cjdrum and Neil are both off it. Don't want to be linked
early?

Here's a Day Two count:

Vote Count:

HezLucky (2) - LynchMePls, zMuffinMan
cjdrum (1) - Regfan
MagnaofIllusion (1) - HezLucky
neil1118 (1) - DeityKabuto
DeityKabuto (1) - MagnaofIllusion

Not Voting: cjdrum, neil1113, Sloth, Wickedestjr.

okay. So I'm the leading wagon. It's LMP, whose reads sucked but is dead confirmed twon, and Muffin, who has proudly tunneled me all game long.

Here's the next vote count:

Vote Count:

HezLucky (3) - LynchMePls, zMuffinMan, Regfan
DeityKabuto (2) - MagnaofIllusion, neil1113
MagnaofIllusion (1) - HezLucky
neil1113 (1) - DeityKabuto

Not Voting: cjdrum, Sloth, Wickedestjr.

I looked at the order. DK got his second vote BEFORE I got my third vote. And I don't think Regfan has voted me at all for the rest of this game.
Perhaps Regfan was building a counterwagon against DeityKabuto on me?

cjdrum (5) - MagnaofIllusion, Wickedestjr, DeityKabuto, LynchMePls, neil1113 (One vote away from lynch!)
HezLucky (2) - zMuffinMan, Regfan
Sloth (2) - LynchMePls, cjdrum
DeityKabuto (1) - neil1113
neil1113 (1) - DeityKabuto
zMuffinMan (1) - HezLucky

This is interesting. The one before this has Magna as the ONLY vote. I'm not sure Magna is mafia, but I am sure he is scum, which is why I want
Magna, the werewolf, lynched today. As I said before, first time doing a VCA, but Magna as the only vote on cjdrum --> Magna as the first vote on
a lynchwagon. Does that make sense as a mafia? I think Magna is a wolf.

CJDrum would then hammer himself. Why is this significant?
The two pairings I've looked at above, which are {Having/Sloth, Neil} and {Regfan, Deity} ... not a single one of them is on the cjdrum lynchwagon.
Does that make sense? Surely you'd bus cjdrum for street cred, yes? Does this mean my pairings are wrong?




So I have never done a VCA before. Please tell me which parts of this are valid, so that I can learn from them.

Basically I'm at the situation:
Possible Mafia pair: {Havingfitz, Neil}
Possible Mafia pair: {Regfan, DeityKabuto}
*Werewolf pair: {MagnaofIllusion, MuffinMan}

* I have linked these two all game. They refuse to talk to each other, vote for each other, find each other suspciious. Hell, they rarely question
each other. Muffin has largely stayed out of Magna's way by tunneling me, while Magna does his thing and sway the town to lynch whomever he wants.

This was a semi-useful exercise, that I can use in future days if I am alive, but we are lynching wolves today: it'll be Magna or Muffin.

[HezLucky]

Further proof that Magna of Illusion is scum comes in his ISO #82.

Magna votes for havingfitz, with possible additional werewolf suspects as "Hez or Neil"

Clearly Magna must've noticed the same connection between Neil and havingfitz that I did (he also tacked me on because I am an easy lynch). However, he ignored the connection between {Neil, havingfitz} and cjdrum, because that would make them mafia and reduce his lynch targets. Magna is scumhunting in search of who the mafia are, because he ultimately needs to find and kill them. However, when he thought he found the mafia ("Neil and havingfitz"), he threw in my name as an easy lynch target, and branded us all as werewolves to get us lynched today.

I am completley confident Magna is a wolf. It's unfortunate this is all falling on deaf ears.

[DeityKabuto]

Unvote
Vote HezLucky

L-1 if HezLucky hammers himself now.

[HezLucky]

Actually your vote puts me at a grand total of a whopping TWO votes.

Care to explain your vote? Or how your read of me has directly correlated throughout the game with whether or not I've been accusing you?

[DeityKabuto]

Actually your vote puts me at a grand total of a whopping TWO votes.

Care to explain your vote? Or how your read of me has directly correlated throughout the game with whether or not I've been accusing you?

Well for one, you say that you are starting a case on me when I'm a Vanilla Town o_0

And if you don't believe my claim, and you somehow convince everyone to lynch me and I do indeed flip VT, you will be their next target, so I suggest you give up now. You are either Mafia or Werewolf.

[HezLucky]

Actually, there are AT LEAST two people I would lynch before you (Magna & Muffin - I have said this _all day_). Make that three. The person I have you paired with, Regfan, is super sketch now.

[HezLucky]

Holy crap Regfan has the same reads as MoI.

I'm unsure what to make of this.