Return to Gambits (SK Win!)

[C-Worl]

i love you too Pineykins.

This reminds me of the last game we were in together with you as scum.

But this:

I have played against Pine when he was scum, been on the same scum team with him, been town in the same game as him, am hydra'd with him in another game. So, if anyone would know about my meta, my way of thinking, or my tells, it would be him.

Seems like a townish explanation. Can you tell though, what tone you were trying to express with this post:

Pine's in this game? Oh boy...

Because depending on how you read them, it seems to clash with the above. Without sarcasm, how do you feel about Pine being in the game?

Pine... He's a brilliant Mafia player but he seems to always have one flaw... me. And like wise I have the same flaw with him. When we're not partners or hydra'd together we always think the other is scum. For some reason that's how our relationship has evolved. Therefore this game gets harder for me with Pine playing bc I will inevitably drop all other reads and tunnel on him. I'm not sure when it'll happen but knowing our previous games it will happen eventually. Yes, he would know my meta better than anyone, yes I would have a firm grip on his. Problem is that'll only add to our cross tunneling that is bound to eventually happen.

So basically... am I happy Pine's in the game? If he's town then yes, he is a great scumhunter and my chances of winning just improved greatly. If he's scum... this should be a game that will piss me off greatly. In the end I feel that Pine being in this game made the game a lot easier and a lot harder at the same time.

[Empking]

Vote Count 12

Cobblerfone (3) - earworm, Nocmen, vezokprika,
DeityKabuto
Pine (3) - CryMeARiver, Sathoris, DeityKabuto
Nocmen (1) - sorasgoof
TheMask
Monk
Surye (1) - TheMask,
CryMeARiver (1) - Surye
jilynne1991
vezokprika
Sathoris
earworm (1) - Ironhead
C-Worl (1) - Wredfar
Wredfar (1) - Monk
Ironhead
sorasgoof

Not Voting: Pine, C-Worl, jilynne1991, Cobblerfone

With 16 alive, its 9 to lynch.

[Nocmen]

i love you too Pineykins.

This reminds me of the last game we were in together with you as scum.

But this:

I have played against Pine when he was scum, been on the same scum team with him, been town in the same game as him, am hydra'd with him in another game. So, if anyone would know about my meta, my way of thinking, or my tells, it would be him.

Seems like a townish explanation. Can you tell though, what tone you were trying to express with this post:

Pine's in this game? Oh boy...

Because depending on how you read them, it seems to clash with the above. Without sarcasm, how do you feel about Pine being in the game?

Pine... He's a brilliant Mafia player but he seems to always have one flaw... me. And like wise I have the same flaw with him. When we're not partners or hydra'd together we always think the other is scum. For some reason that's how our relationship has evolved. Therefore this game gets harder for me with Pine playing bc I will inevitably drop all other reads and tunnel on him. I'm not sure when it'll happen but knowing our previous games it will happen eventually. Yes, he would know my meta better than anyone, yes I would have a firm grip on his. Problem is that'll only add to our cross tunneling that is bound to eventually happen.

So basically... am I happy Pine's in the game? If he's town then yes, he is a great scumhunter and my chances of winning just improved greatly. If he's scum... this should be a game that will piss me off greatly. In the end I feel that Pine being in this game made the game a lot easier and a lot harder at the same time.

That just sounds like an excuse for you to go and tunnel on Pine, and if say, you find he's town and mislynch, use his meta as an excuse?

[Cobblerfone]

@C-Worl: Interesting response.

I actually don't find anything that scummy about it, (a bit theatrical I guess. Or maybe that's just my own imagination.) If you want to continue on this trail Nocmen, fine by me. As for myself, I'll try to find yet another player to question in my next post.

[C-Worl]

i love you too Pineykins.

This reminds me of the last game we were in together with you as scum.

But this:

I have played against Pine when he was scum, been on the same scum team with him, been town in the same game as him, am hydra'd with him in another game. So, if anyone would know about my meta, my way of thinking, or my tells, it would be him.

Seems like a townish explanation. Can you tell though, what tone you were trying to express with this post:

Pine's in this game? Oh boy...

Because depending on how you read them, it seems to clash with the above. Without sarcasm, how do you feel about Pine being in the game?

Pine... He's a brilliant Mafia player but he seems to always have one flaw... me. And like wise I have the same flaw with him. When we're not partners or hydra'd together we always think the other is scum. For some reason that's how our relationship has evolved. Therefore this game gets harder for me with Pine playing bc I will inevitably drop all other reads and tunnel on him. I'm not sure when it'll happen but knowing our previous games it will happen eventually. Yes, he would know my meta better than anyone, yes I would have a firm grip on his. Problem is that'll only add to our cross tunneling that is bound to eventually happen.

So basically... am I happy Pine's in the game? If he's town then yes, he is a great scumhunter and my chances of winning just improved greatly. If he's scum... this should be a game that will piss me off greatly. In the end I feel that Pine being in this game made the game a lot easier and a lot harder at the same time.

That just sounds like an excuse for you to go and tunnel on Pine, and if say, you find he's town and mislynch, use his meta as an excuse?

No that's literally how our games turn out. We even agreed to ignore each other bc of it in 00s Band Mafia and he still ended up coming after me.

[Pine]

Actually, what we're both more or less saying is simply that we don't trust our reads of each other.

It's you folks that keep reading more into that simple statement.

[Cobblerfone]

Found several people:

DeityKabuto: How would you describe your posting style?

wredfar, Mask, Vezok: Who else do you think is scummy besides the people you've voted for respectively?

[CryMeARiver]

Posting has been rough for me lately. Advanced Calculus and College Physics exams tomorrow and then I'm done with junior year of high school. I'll roam free among mafiascum.net. Post will come, I promise

[Empking]

sorasgoof, The Mask and monk have been prodded

[The Mask]

I was just coming on to tell you guys I haven't been home much, and haven't been reading. Ungh.
I'm not going anywhere tomorrow so this game has been prioritized for then.

[Empking]

Ironhead has been prodded

[Ironhead]

I'm here and have been following the cases on C-worl and Pine. I'm as yet unconvinced that either are scum, but I am still looking -- I'm not bound to my current vote and will change it if a better candidate appears.

[Sathoris]

Thing is, there isn't really much else to go on. Cobbler's been acting more cautious ever since amassing some votes. Could be that he's trying to avoid that situation from repeating because he scared about being caught for the wrong reasons. Though that's stretching it.

I still think Pine's post is lynchworthy. His defense of replacements seemed a tad too much aswell.

Replacements are one of the Town's biggest advantages, asshat. We look at things with new eyes and have the chance to provide new insight. Replacments are not burdened by confirmation bias, and often become game-changers.

Immediately attacking replacements to discredit them is one of the most self-serving and scummiest things one can do in this game. Especially when they're replacing into a slot that is a nearly clean slate.

Only we're on page 12 of day one, there are no confirmations and not a lot has happened in the way of damning or clearing anybody. Your predecossor has one post in which he said he didn't see anything. I wouldn't call that a nearly clean slate other than no slate upon which to measure.

This whole C-Worl/Pine conversation has been dragging on, but for what reason? It's hardly worth posting about. Scum C-worl would have better reasons of making his gameplay with Pine known than town C-Worl. I really don't buy you too can't play together without tunneling on each other while getting the wrong read. And with all due respect, if you can't play together without that sort of thing happening perhaps you need to look at your play again and change something.

There's also been a lot of lurking, as evident from the recent prods. Not a big fan of looking at the lurkers to find a mafia on day one. Only time will tell.

As things stand I remain on my vote untill something significant changes.

[Pine]

VOTE: Sathoris

I've heard enough. I don't take votes on me personally, but the moon logic Sathoris is pushing makes it an obviously fabricated do-nothing case designed to make it appear like he's doing something.

[Ironhead]

Looking at players in ISO; earworm's posting has been very townish lately. My vote on him is not well-placed. UNVOTE: Earworm

A lot of players have solid, townish posting when I review them in ISO. This is frustrating; as is the fact that a few players haven't posted a lot of substantial content to review.

One player whose posting sticks out at me is Nocmen -- he first drew my suspicion when he granted Surye a town-read for his odd questioning of Cobblerfone's question early in the day. But since then, his posting has not struck me as townish. His interaction with earworm in particular raises a red flag, as it appears to me now that earworm was satisfactorily addressing the points against him; but Nocmen would not concede this (for example, "finally, you make sense. But you still were making too many assumptions and changing scenarios" says Nocmen; but never argues his case for how earworm is making too many assumptions and changing scenarios).

VOTE: Nocmen

P-Edit: Pine, Sathoris was the first one I ISO'd because I thought he might be manipulating the town. But his ISO looks pretty townish to me; and while the case on you might be weak, but he has at least tried to construct some semblance of an argument -- many others around here cast votes with little or no justification at all.

[sorasgoof]

Sorry for not posting lately. I'm still here.

[Nocmen]

Actually, what we're both more or less saying is simply that we don't trust our reads of each other.

It's you folks that keep reading more into that simple statement.

You said that upfront, but I was more curious about C-worl's response initially to you joining the game. It was just now that he pretty much said the same that you did. However though, isn't that our goal to read into things? Go through and determine what has more meaning, with a personal agenda?

I'm not going to attack Pine right now, I have a slight town read on him from his meta and from how fast he let himself come into attention.

Thing is, there isn't really much else to go on. Cobbler's been acting more cautious ever since amassing some votes. Could be that he's trying to avoid that situation from repeating because he scared about being caught for the wrong reasons. Though that's stretching it.

I still think Pine's post is lynchworthy. His defense of replacements seemed a tad too much aswell.

Replacements are one of the Town's biggest advantages, asshat. We look at things with new eyes and have the chance to provide new insight. Replacments are not burdened by confirmation bias, and often become game-changers.

Immediately attacking replacements to discredit them is one of the most self-serving and scummiest things one can do in this game. Especially when they're replacing into a slot that is a nearly clean slate.

Only we're on page 12 of day one, there are no confirmations and not a lot has happened in the way of damning or clearing anybody. Your predecossor has one post in which he said he didn't see anything. I wouldn't call that a nearly clean slate other than no slate upon which to measure.

This whole C-Worl/Pine conversation has been dragging on, but for what reason? It's hardly worth posting about. Scum C-worl would have better reasons of making his gameplay with Pine known than town C-Worl. I really don't buy you too can't play together without tunneling on each other while getting the wrong read. And with all due respect, if you can't play together without that sort of thing happening perhaps you need to look at your play again and change something.

There's also been a lot of lurking, as evident from the recent prods. Not a big fan of looking at the lurkers to find a mafia on day one. Only time will tell.

As things stand I remain on my vote untill something significant changes.

First of all, I don't think the vote on Pine is worth it right now, especially when scum wants to go more under the radar, not burst and draw eyes to themself. From other games I've seen Pine in, he doesn't draw attention to himself, which is why I'm thinking he's town for now.

I do agree though with the Cobbler mention, he has made a lot of repeating, with little scum hunting, but his post frequency has definitely decreased in the past couple days.

What sticks out to me most from this post? Defending a lurker.

Unvote, Vote: Sathoris

[Cobblerfone]

I do agree though with the Cobbler mention, he has made a lot of repeating, with little scum hunting, but his post frequency has definitely decreased in the past couple days.

There's a reason for this. Either I'm waiting for people to answer questions or I can't think of any questions to ask. Still, maybe I do need to change it up now that we're closing in on the 13th page mark. I'm just not sure how to do that without accidentally tunneling.

I do disagree with Sathoris, but I don't think he's earned my vote yet.

Still waiting on my four questionees.

[DeityKabuto]

Sorry for not posting lately. I'm still here.

That's nice.

[earworm]

Wow. Deity Kabuto is a worse VI than Vezo. Can't get a read worth anything on him.

Anyway I like this post:

Looking at players in ISO; earworm's posting has been very townish lately. My vote on him is not well-placed. UNVOTE: Earworm

A lot of players have solid, townish posting when I review them in ISO. This is frustrating; as is the fact that a few players haven't posted a lot of substantial content to review.

One player whose posting sticks out at me is Nocmen -- he first drew my suspicion when he granted Surye a town-read for his odd questioning of Cobblerfone's question early in the day. But since then, his posting has not struck me as townish. His interaction with earworm in particular raises a red flag, as it appears to me now that earworm was satisfactorily addressing the points against him; but Nocmen would not concede this (for example, "finally, you make sense. But you still were making too many assumptions and changing scenarios" says Nocmen; but never argues his case for how earworm is making too many assumptions and changing scenarios).

VOTE: Nocmen

P-Edit: Pine, Sathoris was the first one I ISO'd because I thought he might be manipulating the town. But his ISO looks pretty townish to me; and while the case on you might be weak, but he has at least tried to construct some semblance of an argument -- many others around here cast votes with little or no justification at all.

And will sheep this argument.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Nocmen

I also don't like how Nocmen completely ignored this vote in his next post.

Actually, what we're both more or less saying is simply that we don't trust our reads of each other.

It's you folks that keep reading more into that simple statement.

You said that upfront, but I was more curious about C-worl's response initially to you joining the game. It was just now that he pretty much said the same that you did. However though, isn't that our goal to read into things? Go through and determine what has more meaning, with a personal agenda?

I'm not going to attack Pine right now, I have a slight town read on him from his meta and from how fast he let himself come into attention.

Thing is, there isn't really much else to go on. Cobbler's been acting more cautious ever since amassing some votes. Could be that he's trying to avoid that situation from repeating because he scared about being caught for the wrong reasons. Though that's stretching it.

I still think Pine's post is lynchworthy. His defense of replacements seemed a tad too much aswell.

Replacements are one of the Town's biggest advantages, asshat. We look at things with new eyes and have the chance to provide new insight. Replacments are not burdened by confirmation bias, and often become game-changers.

Immediately attacking replacements to discredit them is one of the most self-serving and scummiest things one can do in this game. Especially when they're replacing into a slot that is a nearly clean slate.

Only we're on page 12 of day one, there are no confirmations and not a lot has happened in the way of damning or clearing anybody. Your predecossor has one post in which he said he didn't see anything. I wouldn't call that a nearly clean slate other than no slate upon which to measure.

This whole C-Worl/Pine conversation has been dragging on, but for what reason? It's hardly worth posting about. Scum C-worl would have better reasons of making his gameplay with Pine known than town C-Worl. I really don't buy you too can't play together without tunneling on each other while getting the wrong read. And with all due respect, if you can't play together without that sort of thing happening perhaps you need to look at your play again and change something.

There's also been a lot of lurking, as evident from the recent prods. Not a big fan of looking at the lurkers to find a mafia on day one. Only time will tell.

As things stand I remain on my vote untill something significant changes.

First of all, I don't think the vote on Pine is worth it right now, especially when scum wants to go more under the radar, not burst and draw eyes to themself. From other games I've seen Pine in, he doesn't draw attention to himself, which is why I'm thinking he's town for now.

I do agree though with the Cobbler mention, he has made a lot of repeating, with little scum hunting, but his post frequency has definitely decreased in the past couple days.

What sticks out to me most from this post? Defending a lurker.

Unvote, Vote: Sathoris

Also I think his vote on Sathoris is laughable since what Sathoris is really saying is that it's nearly impossible to truly scumhunt lurkers and to try and lynch one of them on day one is not productive.

[C-Worl]

This whole C-Worl/Pine conversation has been dragging on, but for what reason? It's hardly worth posting about. Scum C-worl would have better reasons of making his gameplay with Pine known than town C-Worl.

I really don't buy you too can't play together without tunneling on each other while getting the wrong read. And with all due respect, if you can't play together without that sort of thing happening perhaps you need to look at your play again and change something.

There's also been a lot of lurking, as evident from the recent prods. Not a big fan of looking at the lurkers to find a mafia on day one. Only time will tell.

As things stand I remain on my vote untill something significant changes.

People asked me about it. First Cob and then Noc. What is the town motivation for ignoring questions?

[Pine]

Scum C-worl would have better reasons of making his gameplay with Pine known than town C-Worl.

I don't agree with this. At all. It is a thoroughly null tell, and the fact that Sathoris is going to such great lengths to justify his attacks further cements my suspicions of him.

[jilynne1991]

Sorry for not posting lately. I'm still here.

That's nice.

What. a. freaking. hypocrite. Nice job active lurking. Consider youself on my scum list.

This is also provoking me to reread all you posts.

[Pine]

^I can't tell if this interaction is scummy, or simply due to age and inexperience.

[jilynne1991]

You guys. I know this really makes me seem like a hypocrite, but don't post if you don't have something useful to say.

Regardless of how often you post, when you put out there a useless post, if makes me think your actively lurking. (Also known as being scummy.)