Dr Who - Game over

[Nexus]

@mod I'm voting Snake

Fixed, sorry.

[Tarhalindur]

Uhh, not liking this reaction at all.

Can't quite put my finger on it but my gut is POSITIVELY SCREAMING to me that this is a scum reaction to an apparent DK-gambit on himself.

Feels a bit like scum gleefully mocking somebody who fake DK'd him.

It wasn't an apparent fake day kill gambit, it was proven that it was a fake day kill gambit when the mod posted. Also why do you think that I'm scum gleefully mocking someone who fake day killed me instead of town gleefully mocking someone who fake day killed me.

I'll give my answer to this question (since I have the same read) once Hoppster replies.

1) Still think so (mostly based on posting style and reactions to pressure, I think), with the caveat that one can be a Village Idiot and still be scum.

How can a village idiot be scum if village is the same thing as town? Besides the way you worded it made it seem that you thought village idiot was different than scum. 

Last I checked, village idiot meant a weak player in general. They're more likely to be town (due to role assignment probability if nothing else), but I've seen VI-scum before.

Also, I didn't say that village idiot was different from scum, I said that village idiot was different from ENTERPRISING scum (i.e, scum smart enough to drop a fake well-written "bah, go town" post in response to the fake daykill). There's a difference.

In fact, why are you still voting CES?

Extreme lack of content, not posting his reasoning for his votes and ignoring half of the thread.[/quote]

Fair enough.

No it wasn't. I never post reads on day 1. At this rate of posting you'll be lucky to get anything on Day 2 as well. And the aggressiveness is starting to seep out. I can feel your anger.

Yes you do post reads on D1, you've just made your read on Nexus quite obvious. Do explain.

I'll comment more on Snake once this is answered.

Okay, there's too many scummy players (Zang, pappums, bv, Snake, Ant, Surye) and not enough players pushing them. We need to pool forces sometime soon, and I might as well start the trend. That means off the Ant wagon for now.

Unvote, Vote: Surye

Quick! How many votes did Ant and Surye each have before you did this? No cheating!

Ant: Two counting self, due to Hoppster unvote.
Surye: Two not counting self, unless I missed a vote somewhere.

[Zang]

Zang what do you mean am I name claiming? Are you role fishing?

No, how is asking why your name claiming similar at all to role fishing? You did say "I'm a sonic screwdriver" So it is a logical assumption to say that you are name claiming which you have no reason to do. If you weren't name claiming then what were you doing? 

No it wasn't. I never post reads on day 1. At this rate of posting you'll be lucky to get anything on Day 2 as well. And the aggressiveness is starting to seep out. I can feel your anger.

So you refuse to scum hunt for the first two days?

Nexus, I didn't say I wasnt going to provide content, it's just at this point there is pretty much nothing to go on until some form of death has occured, by the way of lynch and/or kill via scum or vigs. Outside of that we are just shooting into the wind. Oh unless someone scum slips or follows a meta pattern. Like you are currently.

While I agree that lynching anybody is basically a shot in the wind, that doesn't mean that you don't do anything. Although you didn't say that you wouldn't provide content, your actions did because you still haven't provided any content.

Major FoS: SnakePlissken

Unvote, vote: Snake

Why are you voting him. You're basically doing the same thing he is but at least he is defending his lack of content while you do nothing except vote for people.

Overall CES is more valuable than you are. (don't take that as a compliment, CES)

But according to your reasoning, he's only valuable if he's dead.

Last I checked, village idiot meant a weak player in general. They're more likely to be town (due to role assignment probability if nothing else), but I've seen VI-scum before.

And last time I checked, a village is the same thing as a town and somebody that's part of the town can't be scum. A village idiot is a townie that plays similar to amateur scum. You've never heard somebody use "I think he's just a 
VI" as a reason to not think somebody is scum?

Also, I didn't say that village idiot was different from scum, I said that village idiot was different from ENTERPRISING scum (i.e, scum smart enough to drop a fake well-written "bah, go town" post in response to the fake daykill). There's a difference.

It still seemed to me that you implied that VI was town. As you said enterprising scum would say "bah, go town" to seem like town but it seemed to me like you thought that a VI would be the actual townie that says "bah, go town".

[SnakePlissken]

I should explain my stance a bit better. I don't like o POST reads on day 1, instead I like o stop, watch, read and study everyone's style. That way I can make better judged assumptions backed up with quad evidence from kill motivations.

Failing that if I have o be drawn on day 1 I will throw in random comments to gain reactions, hence the screwdriver comment. It will generally draw out an eager scum or role fisher. So the screwdriver gambit gave me a town response from CES, Nexus usual aggression and Zang, drawing attention to a role. Which if your town you keep to yourself to protect town.

FOS Zang

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

And last time I checked, a village is the same thing as a town and somebody that's part of the town can't be scum. A village idiot is a townie that plays similar to amateur scum. You've never heard somebody use "I think he's just a
VI" as a reason to not think somebody is scum?

Having a null read on someone is pretty much the same as not thinking someone is scum. The phrase VI has no connotations of alignment.

Snake, why did you ask question #2 of your random questions?

[Zang]

Failing that if I have o be drawn on day 1 I will throw in random comments to gain reactions, hence the screwdriver comment. It will generally draw out an eager scum or role fisher. So the screwdriver gambit gave me a town response from CES, Nexus usual aggression and Zang, drawing attention to a role. Which if your town you keep to yourself to protect town.

I wasn't drawing attention to the role, I was asking why you would claim that name. They're completely different, I didn't ask you what your role was and I didn't ask for information about your role. All I wanted to know why you name claimed because as town, you should have no reason to name claim so I wanted an explanation for your scummy actions. What's wrong about that?

I should explain my stance a bit better. I don't like o POST reads on day 1, instead I like o stop, watch, read and study everyone's style. That way I can make better judged assumptions backed up with quad evidence from kill motivations.

It's fine that you want to stop, watch and read but thats useless unless you post what you find witch is important especially in day 1. Also, I really hate when people try to find kill motivation you have absolutely no way of knowing why scum killed someone unless you are scum. First there are the obvious choices for each kill, then there are scum trying to frame other people by killing the obvious choice, next there are not obvious and complex reasons for killing somebody, there are also role related reasons for killing somebody and lastly, you have no idea whether it's a scum kill, vig kill or third party kill. There are just too many reasons why one person could kill somebody else and too many people that could have killed that person to decide who is scum or not based off of it,

[Zang]

And last time I checked, a village is the same thing as a town and somebody that's part of the town can't be scum. A village idiot is a townie that plays similar to amateur scum. You've never heard somebody use "I think he's just a
VI" as a reason to not think somebody is scum?

Having a null read on someone is pretty much the same as not thinking someone is scum. The phrase VI has no connotations of alignment.

Snake, why did you ask question #2 of your random questions?

I dont understand.

[SnakePlissken]

That as maybe Zang, but that's how I like to play.

CES - because I was seeing if there was anything people use in games that I have not seen before. Learning curve. It was directed to force people's hand, just get people on game.

[The Rufflig]

Overall CES is more valuable than you are. (don't take that as a compliment, CES)

But according to your reasoning, he's only valuable if he's dead.

Yup and a dead snake is worth less to the town than a dead ces, but that isn't a strong enough reason for me to vote ces. Unfortunately, I don't think we have enough lynches to get rid of all the dead weight in this town before we lose. All I can do is point out how anti-town a player's style is and apply pressure in hopes that the player will amend his ways and actually help the town. The more active the town is, the less the scum can hide by being inactive.

Have I mentioned yet that I don't like lurkers? I don't mind lynching them when there is nothing better to go on especially day 1. I always hope the example of the first lurker swinging from a rope will inspire the other lurkers to clean up their act.

Huh, I wonder if this feeling is me getting ready to throw a vote towards snake?

[Zang]

That as maybe Zang, but that's how I like to play.

You may like to play that way but it's still a bad way to play. I like lurking and randomly voting but I try not to do it because it doesn't catch scum. 

Yup and a dead snake is worth less to the town than a dead ces, but that isn't a strong enough reason for me to vote ces. Unfortunately, I don't think we have enough lynches to get rid of all the dead weight in this town before we lose.

I'm still in favor of a CES lynch. If we lynch any dead weight I would like it to be him.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Back from vacation.

I'll be making a good catch-up post at some point tommorow. I need to re-read but know from my quick phone skimming this last 5 days that there are things I need to comment on.

UNVOTE: Zang... after the last vote count I despise my wagon company.

[pappums rat]

That as maybe Zang, but that's how I like to play.

CES - because I was seeing if there was anything people use in games that I have not seen before. Learning curve. It was directed to force people's hand, just get people on game.

You have been around for about a year, and have played in a good number of games. Why do you think there would be anything new that you wouldnt have seen already? I'm not really buying this explanation for asking a scummy RQS question like that.

[iamausername]

Okay, there's too many scummy players (Zang, pappums, bv, Snake, Ant, Surye) and not enough players pushing them. We need to pool forces sometime soon, and I might as well start the trend. That means off the Ant wagon for now.

Unvote, Vote: Surye

Quick! How many votes did Ant and Surye each have before you did this? No cheating!

Ant: Two counting self, due to Hoppster unvote.
Surye: Two not counting self, unless I missed a vote somewhere.

OK, cool.

Unvote

VOTE: Surye

[SnakePlissken]

Unvote

[SnakePlissken]

VOTE: Suyre I believe this is now L-1 let's see what happens next.

[Nexus]

My God.

Surye claim. I will hammer if you don't claim in your next post, since Snake isn't getting lynched. Also try to provide something helpful, k?

[Tarhalindur]

I don't like leaving players at L-1 with more than 10 players alive, especially when the player in question went from L-3 to L-1 in 30 minutes and a couple of scummy players (especially pappums) could just come and hammer.

Also, I'm not comfortable seeing Surye hang without making him post a few more reads (or at least seeing him refuse to do so).

Unvote, Vote: bv310

- Still not comfortable with him. I'll shift back to Surye if needed after he responds to pressure and/or claims.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Welcome Rufflig …

--

I don't see how that's a strawman. You are picking randomly. Your picking the first five people to post, anybody else could have posted in their place and you would be talking about them instead. The fact that the votes fell on my is random behavior. The first person to post could have just as easily picked somebody else to vote for.

The first five votes all landed directly on you. That’s not random behavior no matter how you slice it.

--

Hmm didn't see this one till Tar actually quoted it. That is interesting that Magna writes of the possibility of scum being on the Zang wagon if Zang flips scum. Covering tracks if Zang actually flips scum here?

Hmmm … so let me get this straight.

You see a possible relational tell between myself and Zang if Zang is scum. And your choice is to vote me over him based on a relational tell you have no evidence is actually in play. With no other comments about why my play indicates I’m scummy to you.

Gotcha.

@Ant

– what do you think about Zang?

--

Uh, that holds true REGARDLESS of whether Zang is town - seriously, RVS is a great time to catch scum distancing from each other. The speed at which votes four and five were placed on him, however, suggests that Zang is town, and is a major reason why I'm still willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

I only think it holds true that scum MUST be on that wagon if Zang is Town. It certainly is possible that if he is scum there is Zang is scum but I wouldn’t slot it at 100%.

But I think this is in the ‘splitting hairs’ realm.

Hmm, fake-daykill must have become more common recently. Darn.

Actually it is common enough that people make RVS jokes using Daykills and when one actually happens it throws people for a loop.

--

Think about it. Why would a town player say "I am not feeling this wagon yet"?

Because they didn’t see strong evidence of scum-play at that point.

--

My first thoughts back are this. Ive played with Nexus a fair few times offsite and whenever he gets really aggressive & into arguments fairly easily he's more often than not scum

Links to support this Meta assertion, please.

Failing that if I have o be drawn on day 1 I will throw in random comments to gain reactions, hence the screwdriver comment. It will generally draw out an eager scum or role fisher. So the screwdriver gambit gave me a town response from CES, Nexus usual aggression and Zang, drawing attention to a role. Which if your town you keep to yourself to protect town.

I don’t ever recall you gambitting in the games we’ve played in the past for reactions. Is your premise that anyone who reacted to what looked like a very premature claim when you were under pressure is scum?

VOTE: Suyre I believe this is now L-1 let's see what happens next.

So you put the person you’ve stated no suspicion of at L-1 to see what happens?

VOTE: Snake.

I’ll re-read Surye today and will be checking into his wagon also.

[jasonT1981]

Day 1 Vote Count 3

Surye 4: BV3,Ruffling,Username,Snake
Snake 4: Rat, Nexus, MOI, Cogito
CES 2: Surye, Zang
MOI 1: Ant
Rat 1: Hoppster
BV310 1: Tarh,

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

[Zang]

Unvote
VOTE: Surye

Why did everybody start voting surye?

VOTE: Suyre

I believe this is now L-1 let's see what happens next.

You're willing to put somebody that you don't think is scummy in danger of being lynched just to get reactions that you won't even use to scum hunt for another day?

The first five votes all landed directly on you. That’s not random behavior no matter how you slice it.

That is random. Most of the individual votes on me weren't random but the votes as a whole were random. They could just as easily have fallen on you or anybody else in this game instead of me.

[Surye]

Ugh, I'm having a hard time getting into this game, which is too bad. I was going to post the other day, and mafiascum was down on my lunch. I'm rereading again, and will give reads. Since I've been put at L-2, I'm not going to claim.

[Surye]

As I read back, I think CES was the first scummy remark, I know I've already discussed it, but on second look, he discourages acting outside the wagons on page one. He was retarding day 1's progress out the gate, I did not like that. And he posts like zero content most of the time...but that's CES. :/

Snake was acting scummy. Meta based Nexus vote. Then Sonic Screwdriver nonsense. Then claims no reads from him D1, absolves himself from any responsibility. Then votes me with no comment on a single thing about me?

Tar's scumhunting seems genuine, even when targetting me with it. Other then the fake day kill, which I am not sure about, he seems town to me.

Those are the reads/thoughts worth posting in the 7 pages we got from me. I should be more active now that I am caught up (you know how it is, the more behind in a game you get, the harder it is to catch up, then the further you fall behind )

VOTE: Snake Currently the scummiest read I have, and it's pretty strong.

[Surye]

UNVOTE: VOTE: Snake

[MagnaofIllusion]

Ugh, I'm having a hard time getting into this game, which is too bad. I was going to post the other day, and mafiascum was down on my lunch. I'm rereading again, and will give reads. Since I've been put at L-2, I'm not going to claim.

Ok, so first you had new kittens distracting you. And next you say MS was down when you went to post here.

How do you explain your approximately 15 to 20 other posts in other active games while you did not post here over the last 2.5 days?

Certainly MS wasn’t down then and your kittens clearly didn’t stop you from posting in them.

[Surye]

Ugh, I'm having a hard time getting into this game, which is too bad. I was going to post the other day, and mafiascum was down on my lunch. I'm rereading again, and will give reads. Since I've been put at L-2, I'm not going to claim.

Ok, so first you had new kittens distracting you. And next you say MS was down when you went to post here.

How do you explain your approximately 15 to 20 other posts in other active games while you did not post here over the last 2.5 days?

Certainly MS wasn’t down then and your kittens clearly didn’t stop you from posting in them.

Yes, those were games I had a handle on, I wasn't already behind, different time and thought investment to make a meaningful contribution.