Dr Who - Game over

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Mod

, I'm voting for Snake, not Surye.

mod note: my mistake, fixed.

As I read back, I think CES was the first scummy remark, I know I've already discussed it, but on second look, he discourages acting outside the wagons on page one. He was

retarding

accelerating day 1's progress out the gate, I did not like that.

Fixed!

[Surye]

Mod

, I'm voting for Snake, not Surye.

mod note: my mistake, fixed.

As I read back, I think CES was the first scummy remark, I know I've already discussed it, but on second look, he discourages acting outside the wagons on page one. He was

retarding

accelerating day 1's progress out the gate, I did not like that.

Fixed!

I'd accept an argument for that, I just don't know of I like the method, I think you did accelerate it. Anyways, Snake's call for my claim when I was at "L-1" (L-3) is terrible.

[The Rufflig]

Ah, home sweet home!

Ant: Two counting self, due to Hoppster unvote.
Surye: Two not counting self, unless I missed a vote somewhere.

OK, cool.

Uhm....is my vote count off? I believe both of his numbers are wrong. He moved from a wagon of three (including himself) to form a wagon of four.
Ant: iamausername, Cogito Ergo Sum
Surye: Nexus, bv310, The Rufflig

Where were you going with this anyway?

----

@zang: What is your read on iamausername?

----

Anyways, Snake's call for my claim when I was at "L-1" (L-3) is terrible.

Surye claim. I will hammer if you don't claim in your next post, since Snake isn't getting lynched. Also try to provide something helpful, k?

That was actually Nexus and you were at L-2 at the time.

[Surye]

Ah, home sweet home!

Ant: Two counting self, due to Hoppster unvote.
Surye: Two not counting self, unless I missed a vote somewhere.

OK, cool.

Uhm....is my vote count off? I believe both of his numbers are wrong. He moved from a wagon of three (including himself) to form a wagon of four.
Ant: iamausername, Cogito Ergo Sum
Surye: Nexus, bv310, The Rufflig

Where were you going with this anyway?

----

@zang: What is your read on iamausername?

----

Anyways, Snake's call for my claim when I was at "L-1" (L-3) is terrible.

Surye claim. I will hammer if you don't claim in your next post, since Snake isn't getting lynched. Also try to provide something helpful, k?

That was actually Nexus and you were at L-2 at the time.

You're right about Nexus, sorry, I get confused sometimes when catching up and reading a lot of isos.

However I was at L-3, the mod counted wrong.

[Nexus]

Well then I won't be hammering.

I threatened you with the hammer with the information given to me, I didn't count the votes, I just trusted that the mod was right. Clearly I was mistaken.

[SnakePlissken]

I am as with most weekends now

V/LA for the weekend

[The Rufflig]

@surye: Well, let's work backwards and see. My personal vote count agrees with the mod's count in #168. You were at L-3 there. Two posts above it at #166 Tarhalindur unvoted you to move you away from what he thought was L-1, but was actually L-2. Nexus threatening to hammer you came in at #165. Yup, you were at L-2 at the time.

[MagnaofIllusion]

@MOD – I’ll be V/LA from 4pm EST til Monday morning for my usual weekend family duties. As usual I will probably have some time to post but it is not guaranteed or predictable.

I’m actually getting Town vibes from Zang at this point. He’s made several points I think are sound and well-reasoned.

@Tar

– I don’t see that you answered the following question from Zang in post 152. If you have please say so and I re-dig through your ISO. If not please answer it –

It still seemed to me that you implied that VI was town. As you said enterprising scum would say "bah, go town" to seem like town but it seemed to me like you thought that a VI would be the actual townie that says "bah, go town".

--

Major FoS: SnakePlissken

Please elaborate why you feel the need to use FOSes instead of moving your vote. CES does not appear to be a viable wagon at this point. Why are you keeping your vote languishing on a 2 vote and unviable wagon?

--

Yup and a dead snake is worth less to the town than a dead ces, but that isn't a strong enough reason for me to vote ces.

Unfortunately, I don't think we have enough lynches to get rid of all the dead weight in this town before we lose.

All I can do is point out how anti-town a player's style is and apply pressure in hopes that the player will amend his ways and actually help the town. The more active the town is, the less the scum can hide by being inactive.

Does anyone else see the underlying assumption here that Rufflig knows that both Snake and CES are Town (I’ve bolded the phrase that caught my eye)? Specific use of the term dead-weight implies that they are Town aligned.

@Ruffling

– How do you propose that we pressure CES (who you have said is dead-weight to Town) if you aren’t willing to vote him?

@Rufflig

– What alignment significance do you assign to Surye’s statements about not being at L-1 so not claiming? Regardless of whether he was technically L-2 or L-3 the fact remains that Tar unvoted him so wasn’t at L-1 with an offered hammer.

--

OK, cool.

So exactly what did you expect to get out of Tar with your ‘Quick, how many votes’ question?

--

Surye claim. I will hammer if you don't claim in your next post, since Snake isn't getting lynched. Also try to provide something helpful, k?

If you think he is scum (which you should since you are willing to hammer) why are you asking him to provide something helpful?

Also, why didn’t Snake’s pretty bad hop onto the wagon dissuade you at all from potentially hammering Surye? You’ve pretty much staked out that you want Snake lynched and thus he is scum.

[Nexus]

Because Surye is my #2 and Snake wasn't looking to be lynched, since y'all are falling for his "I'll be helpful tomorrow" crap. Since he's throwing up meta-he's never helpful.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

As evidenced by Snake being the biggest wagon.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Because Surye is my #2 and Snake wasn't looking to be lynched, since y'all are falling for his "I'll be helpful tomorrow" crap. Since he's throwing up meta-he's never helpful.

CES pretty much nailed this in his response but I'm still going to address it.

Snake is the actual leading wagon with 5 votes to Surye's 4. If you were keeping up with the thread you'd see that.

And please indicate who is exactly 'falling' for his statement? I don't recall seeing any significant responses that say "Oh, Snake makes sense".

[Nexus]

Jesus fuck I have to pay more attention to the wagons then. Last I checked Surye was the biggest. Whoops.

Yeah, disregard that. Carry on.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Jesus fuck I have to pay more attention to the wagons then. Last I checked Surye was the biggest. Whoops.

Yeah, disregard that. Carry on.

You know what is missing from this post? A vote for Snake.

Nexus's claimed Number 1 suspect who says he isn't voting solely because the wagon wasn't viable.

Yet when presented with evidence that it is viable he goes "Whoops, my bad, I need to pay attention" and nothing else.

Iron Fist of Suspcion - Nexus

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Nexus is totes voting Snake.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Derp he is ...

I forgot that he only threatened to hammer Surye.

IronFistofSuspicion

- rusted by stupidity

[Nexus]

How about this MoI?

votecount plz

[Hoppster]

Sorry all for the delay, had a few connection issues. Should be more stable now.

Uhh, not liking this reaction at all.

Can't quite put my finger on it but my gut is POSITIVELY SCREAMING to me that this is a scum reaction to an apparent DK-gambit on himself.

Feels a bit like scum gleefully mocking somebody who fake DK'd him.

It wasn't an apparent fake day kill gambit, it was proven that it was a fake day kill gambit when the mod posted. Also why do you think that I'm scum gleefully mocking someone who fake day killed me instead of town gleefully mocking someone who fake day killed me.

Well, mainly gut on my part if I'm honest.

Re-quoting the offending section of your post:

Kill: Zang

Really? This has been so overused that it becomes almost obvious that it's a fake day kill gambit when you post it. What did you hope to gain from this?

Your post has a tone which I want to describe as patronising, but it's not quite the same in my mind.

It's part-patronising, part-gleeful, part-mocking, part-just-plain-evil.

As weird as this sounds, it's like something from a movie. The good guy, faced with the bad guy, pulls out his pistol and shoots. The bullet whizzes past the bad guy.

And then, the vibe I get from your post: the villain cackles evilly, and says "Oh dear, Mr. Bond, you are a poor shot. I really don't know how you ever thought you would defeat me (mwahahaha)," or some other derogatory remark, mocking the hero's valiant but ultimately futile attempt to kill him.

(Following this, of course, it turns out the hero wasn't trying to hit the villain but was trying to shoot some chandelier off the ceiling or something stupid like that. But that's not important for this analogy.)

Your post feels like it is coming from the exact same state of mind as the villain in this scenario. The villain sees the hero's failed kill attempt and becomes cocky and patronising, feeling he has the upper hand over the hero in this battle.

(I struggle to describe my gut and feel ridiculous doing so, but hopefully by using the movie scenario people will know what I'm talking about. >>)

@hoppster: If you wanted to know why I was leaning negative on pappums, you should have left a post of his for me.

Wasn't looking so much for specific reasons, but wondering why you gave pappums and bv the same 'summary' ("Not enough content") yet gave different reads ("leaning a bit negative" and "no real opinion" respectively).

Oh, Tar, fake daykills are lame.

Nexus, what prompted this?

Came one minute after your post (immediately above it), and I'm wondering what made you suddenly post that.

something

OH HEY I REMEMBER YOU

Don't ignore me plzkthx.

@ everybody:

Can you all stop ignoring pappums? Seriously, look at his ISO, it's so incredibly inconsistent, and his vote on Snake is horribly horribly opportunistic.

My first thoughts back are this. Ive played with Nexus a fair few times offsite and

whenever he gets really aggressive & into arguments fairly easily he's more often than not scum

Ie. Aggression is a scum-tell from Nexus.

So the screwdriver gambit gave me a town response from CES,

Nexus usual aggression

and Zang, drawing attention to a role.

Ie. Aggression is a null-tell from Nexus.

Which is it, Snake?

Also, why did you drop your meta-case on Nexus to vote Surye?


I would rather go for a Snake lynch over Surye, but want to put a pappums lynch out there, as people seem to be ignoring him.

I can see some evidence of scum-hunting in Snake and Surye's ISOs. Not in pappums' ISO.

[jasonT1981]

Day 1 Vote Count 4

Snake 5: Rat, Nexus, MOI, Cogito,Surye (Lynch -2)
Surye 4: BV3,Ruffling,Username,Snake
CES 1: Zang
MOI 1: Ant
Rat 1: Hoppster
BV310 1: Tarh,

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.


bv310 (1) has been prodded

[Ant_to_the_max]

Quick "I found some free time and a computer" initial post.

I will get through everything and not leave until I do

[jasonT1981]

Mod Note: Going to be out tonight and Tomorrow night, so will try and update vote count as much as I can

[bv310]

/prodded. Sorry I'm away a bit, trying to get ready for a trip tomorrow, so i've been dealing with the myriad issues involved.

[The Rufflig]

Does anyone else see the underlying assumption here that Rufflig knows that both Snake and CES are Town (I’ve bolded the phrase that caught my eye)? Specific use of the term dead-weight implies that they are Town aligned.

@Ruffling – How do you propose that we pressure CES (who you have said is dead-weight to Town) if you aren’t willing to vote him?

@Rufflig – What alignment significance do you assign to Surye’s statements about not being at L-1 so not claiming? Regardless of whether he was technically L-2 or L-3 the fact remains that Tar unvoted him so wasn’t at L-1 with an offered hammer.

1) Yup, I see the assumption, but the reason for the assumption is wrong. In my experience, a lurker is much more likely to flip town than scum.

2) Actually, I'm willing to vote for him. You want to back me on a pappums rat or ces vote?

3) None. As far as I'm concerned, Surye was correct in refusing to claim - the time was not correct. I did want to point out to him that he was closer to being lynched than he thought he was.
---

Ok, Hoppster, I'm willing to play ball.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: pappums rat

[Zang]

As I read back, I think CES was the first scummy remark, I know I've already discussed it, but on second look, he discourages acting outside the wagons on page one. He was retarding day 1's progress out the gate, I did not like that. And he posts like zero content most of the time...but that's CES. :/

Just because he is CES does not give him a free pass to be scummy.

@zang: What is your read on iamausername?

He's my third scummiest read behind Snake and CES. Like them he isn't really doing anything although I do think he puts slightly more content in his posts than CES. Although i'm starting to rethink this with CES's latests posts being somewhat helpful.

Please elaborate why you feel the need to use FOSes instead of moving your vote. CES does not appear to be a viable wagon at this point. Why are you keeping your vote languishing on a 2 vote and unviable wagon?

I am considering switching my vote. I usually vote for who I think is scummiest whether it's a viable wagon or not until one of my other suspects gets to L-2 or L-1. In this case, I would like to see his response to his vote on Surye before I vote for him.

As weird as this sounds, it's like something from a movie. The good guy, faced with the bad guy, pulls out his pistol and shoots. The bullet whizzes past the bad guy.

And then, the vibe I get from your post: the villain cackles evilly, and says "Oh dear, Mr. Bond, you are a poor shot. I really don't know how you ever thought you would defeat me (mwahahaha)," or some other derogatory remark, mocking the hero's valiant but ultimately futile attempt to kill him.

Its not that he missed be but that he never shot. It would be more like if the guy took a pistol, shot someone and water came out. Then the person, soaking wet and confused, asked why he would do that. 

[iamausername]

Ah, home sweet home!

Ant: Two counting self, due to Hoppster unvote.
Surye: Two not counting self, unless I missed a vote somewhere.

OK, cool.

Uhm....is my vote count off? I believe both of his numbers are wrong. He moved from a wagon of three (including himself) to form a wagon of four.
Ant: iamausername, Cogito Ergo Sum
Surye: Nexus, bv310, The Rufflig

Where were you going with this anyway?

Yeah, I kind of ballsed it up quite a bit. When I posed the question, I was under the impression that Tar had jumped from a larger wagon to a smaller one, because I'd missed Hoppster's unvote.

I didn't actually notice that his numbers were slightly off, but since the point I was driving at was still wrong, it doesn't really matter anyway.

So exactly what did you expect to get out of Tar with your ‘Quick, how many votes’ question?

I hoped to gain an insight into how well he was following the game. I instead gained an insight into how well I was following the game, ie. not as well as I thought.

(I struggle to describe my gut and feel ridiculous doing so, but hopefully by using the movie scenario people will know what I'm talking about. >>)

Hoppster is totes town for this whole spiel.

What he describes seems remarkably familiar, since I've had the same feeling attempting to put into words exactly why "I'm not feeling this wagon yet" does not remotely represent a town thought process. Only I don't have any cool movie analogies.

But seriously. It is not something that a town player would say. Town players are not concerned with how their reads might change in the future. They're too busy trying to figure out their reads in the here and now to even think about what might happen in the future that could change their mind.

Add that to his terrible "MoI did something that looks suspicious if Zang flips scum, Vote: MoI" thing, and I just don't get why everyone else seems to be fine with letting him fly under the radar here.

[pappums rat]

something

OH HEY I REMEMBER YOU

Don't ignore me plzkthx.

@ everybody:

Can you all stop ignoring pappums? Seriously, look at his ISO, it's so incredibly inconsistent, and his vote on Snake is horribly horribly opportunistic.

Hoppster in this game reminds me of myself in Mini 1120. As scum, I went after Darla who I tried to paint as active lurking. She was an easy target for scum to go after because she rarely posted and when she did she often didnt have a whole lot to say. My vote on Snake was not opportunistic, he is scummy as hell, and his vote to put Surye at L-1 (which wasnt really L-1 but he thought it was) cements his position as scum in my mind, not to mention his terrible reasoning for not participatiing in day 1. And I havent forgotten about you Hoppster as you tried to claim, I'm just going after someone who has a better chance of being lynched today. I still think you are scum.