Wizards at the Sorcerers' Den - Endgame

[Beefster]

Scum Suspects:
WrathChild
PeregrineV
LMP

FOS: PeregrineV

[inHimshallibe]

fos: gandalf

[inHimshallibe]

Also

fos: katy, zdenek, feysal

[PeregrineV]

Clearing up some technical matters regarding my current state of health. Then will be back with important message.

[SGRaaize]

Alright, my Wall of Text was nearly not as big as I thought it would be, so I hope people read it this time:

SGR:
Wine arguements, self-meta arguements.
I got no idea what to make of him yet.

Hey, Baby Spice, what do you think of me now? And who do you FoS more between Beefster and Zdenek now?

Would really like to hear more from SnakePlissken, not liking his contribution so far.

Snake has contributed more than you

Something that caught my eye as I was reading was how abruptly Zdenek changed his read when Pine claimed. Even as Pine was pushing his own lynch Zdenek believed he was scum, and suddenly changed when Pine claimed. Why is that?

I think we're the few people that have nothing related to the Undead in their abilities, because a lot of people suddenly believed Pine with his claim, if I recall correctly.

fos: gandalf

Also

fos: katy, zdenek, feysal

I get Gandalf and Zdenek, but why Katy and Feysal? Just wondering.

Ya for FOS count.

FOS: Katy

Read her ISO last night and was infinitely less than impressed. I would recommend it as good reading for anyone else who might want to find scum.

What about Katy? What's going on?

Why is RBT confirmed town. Is an alignment shift not a possibility?

I find this post scummy on at least two different levels.

[SGRaaize]

Three different levels, to be precise.

[inHimshallibe]

Katy and Feysal bother me on contribution levels. Katy also bothered me in what I thought might have been a slip in talking about mislynches.

Turning this back to you - give me your take on gandalf and Zdenek.

[Katy]

I wasn't that active yesterday for several reasons, including that a lot was going on in another game I'm involved in and that work all of the sudden got sucky and I've been unexpectedly stressed, making it hard for me to come in and focus really hard on playing.

If it helps, I can tell you that I checked out the masons and I don't believe there is any gambit going on there. As to anything else I have to say, I want to check something with the mod first.

@Inhim

: Can you elaborate on this "slip" about mislynches?

[inHimshallibe]

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 8#p3057628

I said he was obv. scum because he kept saying he was Merlin (a wizard). In other words, a joke.

Even if I thought he was scummy (and I'm not sure on that right now) I would have unvoted because he had racked up seven votes in a short amount of time and in the previous Sorcerers/Wizards game the exact same thing happened leading to a quick mislynch, so I was being cautious and unvoting. Plus, Implosion was and still is coming off as more scummy than SGR. I don't understand why he cares so much about the who the hydra is. How are their identities relevant to their alignment?

Talking about mislynches of people other than yourself or those you know are not scum before the fact just seems to smack of too much information.

Later on in the Day, I didn't push the issue further, but feel it may be worth it now.

[inHimshallibe]

Turning this back to you - give me your take on gandalf and Zdenek.

fos: sgraaize

until this happens.

[SGRaaize]

I can see where Gandalf and Zdenek are Scum:

1)Zdenek does look like he's planting reasons to vote that person later in case a BW forms, all without 1) Giving much reasoning himself and just following whatever other person says 2) Flip-Flopping a bit too much for my eyes.

2) Gandalf hasn't said almost anything and from what he says, few things are to be taken seriously or worth of discussion (The difference between Gandalf and Katy/Snake Plissen is that those two, although not saying much, have managed to drop some town-tells that don't look staged, while Gandalf is pretty much in the center and as null as one can be)

Regarding Zdenek, although I do see reasons on why people would think he's Mafia, I did like some posts he made, namely:

Zdenek however, is making softly softly attacks on easy targets, which to me points at scum trying to not get too invested in a mis-lynch.
Beefster/Amrun for example. Vote on lurker Snake for no real reason is bad. Weak reasons on Pine when there were good reasons for voting him.

What makes you think that Amrun is an easier target than Beefster?
What were the good reasons for voting Pine?

I still think that SnakePl is scum. He's posted little and in the post he made before I voted him there was a lot of pro-town fluff, and his current vote is (ironically) on a lurker. He also asks questions that he wouldn't need to if he was reading the thread. If he wasn't on the suggested list of vigging targets, my vote would still be there.

And

Zdenek however, is making softly softly attacks on easy targets, which to me points at scum trying to not get too invested in a mis-lynch.
Beefster/Amrun for example.

I attacked Amrun out of that pair.

So that would be you calling Amrun an easier target than Beefster, not me.

No, it's not. I never thought that I was attacking weak targets. So that is pure B.S.

It's not that he was alarmist per se, but that he built up from a reasonable thing to an alarmist thing.
That he escalated his rhetoric with nothing from Icey that would have supported such an escalation.

Your reasoning here is garbage because you are trying to argue that Soben didn't build up from a reasonable statement to an alarmist one, which is patently false.

He went from: "Derp! Yeah! I don't have to read and can be lazy! Yeah! Screw actually reading anything carefully!" to a very in depth poster who has detailed theories and reads on different people. This was just over the course of about 4 RL days. It is a huge posting style flip and it bugs me. If we aren't going to lynch him, fine, but I don't like what I'm getting from him.

This is one of the worst reasons I have ever seen someone use to try to push a wagon (for the record, I have seen this argument used by scum in the past). Player plays badly, comes under pressure for it, improves, and scum not wanting to abandon their original case, uses this stupid reason to keep pushing their lynch.

Why does anyone have a town read on WC again?

Regarding Gandalf, I don't mind lynching him today, he is a lurker that is pretty much as null as it can be in my eyes, and I like lynching both lurkers and null people, I'd like Dry-Fit more than Gandalf, though, he's also a lurker, and I don't like most of what he said, namely, the fact that he seems to be tunneling on the easiest targets (Me, Snake) without noticing anything else going on in the game, and even going as far as using that as an excuse ("Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't notice Pine because I was just looking at SGRaaize"), plus, him calling out Snake on lack of contributions is just ridiculous.

Good enough?

[Katy]

Talking about mislynches of people other than yourself or those you know are not scum before the fact just seems to smack of too much information.

Later on in the Day, I didn't push the issue further, but feel it may be worth it now.

I wasn't talking about a mislynch on someone I knew was town, I was talking about avoiding what happened on the first two days of SitMOA II. I have no idea what SGR's alignment is, and at that point in the game I was on the fence on him. But in SitMOA II, the first two days were cut short when bandwagons piled up extremely quickly for little reason and then the player was hammered (in both cases unintentionally) before there was time for any real discussion during the day. The first mislynch led directly to the second mislynch and it was not good for town. I wasn't trying to defend SGR so much as I was trying to take off my vote so that nothing stupid happened like last time.

[IceyCupcake]

Scum Suspects:
WrathChild
PeregrineV
LMP

FOS: PeregrineV

Hey Beefster

We are not lynching people who are near death today.

That's you and Peregrine V.

Try again.

[IceyCupcake]

Also

fos: katy, zdenek, feysal

Yeah shut the fuck up. You keep the FOS count if you want to be a moron, otherwise I'm going to treat it like a vote.

[inHimshallibe]

Anger doesn't become you.

fos: gandalf

For the voting purposes.

[IceyCupcake]

I wasn't that active yesterday for several reasons, including that a lot was going on in another game I'm involved in and that work all of the sudden got sucky and I've been unexpectedly stressed, making it hard for me to come in and focus really hard on playing.

If it helps, I can tell you that I checked out the masons and I don't believe there is any gambit going on there. As to anything else I have to say, I want to check something with the mod first.

@Inhim

: Can you elaborate on this "slip" about mislynches?

So you confirmed that a pair of Masons were town.

Thank you for that information, Katy. I feel very reassured that you're not scum. "The Masons are town."

The. Masons. Are. Town.

Can you give me some reads that DON'T involve me lynching you dead as a doornail? Because my bloodlust is heading towards 11.

@SGRaize:

You have an interesting set of reads on a narrow subset of players. It's starting to disturb me.

What do you see your position in this town as? Are you a leader? A rabble rouser? Do you force people who are lurking to post? Shine the light in dark corners? Analyze people's posts and determine what alignment they are? What are you doing today?

@InHim:

I'm REAL good at it when I volunteer to be vote bitch for the town and that stuff happens. Imagine like 20 people multi FOSing and unFOSing, and my poor count.

[IceyCupcake]

Also this is all ICE.

[A Gaggle of Geese]

If it helps, I can tell you that I checked out the masons and I don't believe there is any gambit going on there. As to anything else I have to say, I want to check something with the mod first.

ex-fucking-cuse me.

[A Gaggle of Geese]

sgraiize's spamming is weird and could be overcompensating for nervousness.

[A Gaggle of Geese]

I MEAN WHAT SORT OF FUCKING SCUM CLAIMS MASONS DAY 1 IN A LARGE GAME KATY? WHAT IS THIS? WHY WOULD YOU USE ANY SORT OF ALIGNMENT CHECKING ABILLITY ON CLAIMED MASONS. that's terribad play.

[SGRaaize]

@SGRaize:

You have an interesting set of reads on a narrow subset of players. It's starting to disturb me.

What do you mean?

What do you see your position in this town as? Are you a leader? A rabble rouser? Do you force people who are lurking to post? Shine the light in dark corners? Analyze people's posts and determine what alignment they are? What are you doing today?

I'm the wild card

sgraiize's spamming is weird and could be overcompensating for nervousness.

I am nervous

[Snow_Bunny]

Votecount

2- gandalf5166

[Healthy]

(0)
3- A Gaggle of Geese

[Healthy]

(0)
5- Riceballtail

[Bruised]

(0)
6- Katy

[Healthy]

(0)
7- Bunnylover

[Healthy]

(1) - AGOG
8- IceyCupcake

[Healthy]

(0)
10- Dry-fit

[Healthy]

(0)
11- SnakePlissken

[Bruised]

(0)
12- WrathChild

[Healthy]

(0)
14- Beefster

[Dying]

(0)
15- PeregrineV

[Dying]

(0)
16- BabySpice

[Healthy]

(0)
17- LynchMePls

[Healthy]

(0)
18- Zdenek

[Healthy]

(0)
19- Mana_Ku

[Bleeding]

(0)
20- inHimshallibe

[Bruised]

(0)
21- SGRaaize

[Bruised]

(0)
23- Feysal

[Healthy]

(0)

Not voting (17): gandalf5166, Riceballtail, Katy, Bunnylover, IceyCupcake, Dry-fit, SnakePlissken, WrathChild, Beefster, PeregrineV, BabySpice, LynchMePls, Zdenek, Mana_Ku, inHimshallibe, SGRaaize, Feysal

With 18 alive, it takes 10 to lynch.

Deadline is on June 30h at midnight (GMT -5)

Damn it, I had forgotten:

You find a dagger lying on the floor.

[A Gaggle of Geese]

grab dagger

[WrathChild]

grab dagger

Im not sure what I think about this, On one hand, I considered it to be more town to discuss diplomatically, but on the other hand I could see this as aggressive town running interference.

GG are you still a hydra? If so who?

[WrathChild]

PS
I'll be back at work Monday, so I'll be mostly V/LA until then.