Mini 1170: Nowhereville Mafia '11- Over!

[The Kool]

Hip, I happen to believe Panzer more than I believe you. Even if he is mafia (which I dearly hope not, with my vote placed as it is), does that mean I am too? No. However, I might have enough time on tonight to reconsider the evidence. I'm hoping I will before I leave.

Luckily, I happen to have a few minutes on right now. Unluckily, my claim is one of the most suspicious possible, so as much as I wince to say it, I'm a VT.

Next up, Chronos! I don't like lurkers, too little to go off of.

[hiplop]

why do you believe panzer then? he hasnt said anything believable

[Elfen]

So if hip is lieing... then there could be a Hip/SK team up? since if he ends up lieing, and trys to cover for SK with all this... then who knows :/

[hiplop]

or you know, the actual combination of Panzer/Kool and if theres a third scum its CoolSkins

[CooLskins]

So if hip is lieing... then there could be a Hip/SK team up? since if he ends up lieing, and trys to cover for SK with all this... then who knows :/

Yes, that would be correct. But we can't really find that out unless we lynch one. But if we lynch somebody and they flip town then we lose the game. Basically we can lynch today and win or lose the game, or we can no lynch and hope that hip's/panzer's jk blocks the scum kill and then we lynch them the next day. However, the later is flawed because both hip and confirmed town espy have said that they have been role-blocked. This means that the scum will role block the person that they know is the real jk (ether panzer or hip).

So in essence right now we have a 50/50 on our hands. Both hip and panzer can't be town. One of them is scum. Now is the time that we go back and dig up voting records and the claims that both have made in order to make an informed decision and tip the odds on that 50/50.


Bub has a draft saved here that has some reads that aren't finished yet, so expect those from him later. And I don't want to post something that he already has covered (he does have something already covered that I wanted to post) or that he wants to cover.
-CooLDoG

[Midnight's Sorrow]

Vote count D-3 #1

(1) Panzerjager- hiplop

(2) hiplop- Panzerjager, The Kool

(5) Not voting: Elfen, CooLskins, LordChronos, Kalofer, SleepyKrew

With 8 alive it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline is July 1st, Midnight Central.

[The Kool]

Sleepy unvoted.

I shall now take what time I can to look back and figure out if this is gullible gut feeling voting, or reliable memory. Or unreliable memory, more likely.

[The Kool]

And I am curious as to why you think our declared 'most pro-town player' is scum. Do tell. I myself think he is quite possibly the most pro-town player here, though he dropped off the list of 'definitely town' after repeated selective blindness on my posts.

[SleepyKrew]

@mod
Can a roleblocker block the scum kill?
How does RB vs. RB work for you?

[PJ.]

panzer just claimed scum. I'm 100% sure on this. I claimed yesterday, to protect someone, as i thought they were town. He didn't counterclaim, and his only problem with my claim was that i did it without votes on me. Hes bullshitting to the max. He knew he couldn't kill me at night, as iwas going for him. So he killed espeonage, who was defending me/generally townie/good player, and knew that town might believe him over me.

Kool is against mass claims, votes with Panzer, has been scumy all game. The scum team is panzer/kool 100% sure. Why would i claim to protect someone, as scum? especially when this could happen.

VOTE: Panzer

The timing was one of the only problem that i could mention without claiming and giving scum(you) unnecessary information. Jailkeeper generally means no doc and since Espeon had claimed, I didn't want to claim and let you guys know that in order to protect him I had to block him as well.

Also, coolskins. I knew what i meant, i just overthought it i suppose. Panzers been twisting my words all game, all i said was it meant SK didnt have a killing role. he just kept pushing to make me rage, so he could do this. If you guys believe him then *facepalm*

also, why would a townie, wait till lylo to counterclaim someone who would be obvi-scum if they were the actual role. Hes so obviously scum

You still haven't showed us where i twisted your words, I have just infered the meaning of them.

you didnt want to give scum info? if i wasn't the jailkeeper, that would make me scum from your perspective (guarenteed). As i would be lying. If you were the real jailkeeper, you would have claimed to kill me. Thats not giving scum info, thats killing scum

I know hes not an idiot town, he wouldnt do that. Guys, smarten up. We have the scumteam

You are scum guaranteed, that's why I said you were scum right when you claimed with a resounding bullshit. I couldn't get anyone behind your lynch, so I went for the next scummiest player(who happened to be SK). And why would I claim before I had to? If a skilled cop gets a guilty on someone, he makes a case on them, he doesn't say "hey guys, I'm the cop and here's the guilty" Gives scum too much info. And yes, I would have lynched scum but giving the scum infor in return. They would know both info role(Espeon and Charter), known what is most likely the only protective role(me), and known that in order to protect Espeon I'd have to block him. Meaning they could just kill me and him in consecutive nights.

I just looked at your ISO, you have done absolutely nothing this game, but give a fake claim, defend your fake claim, and make baseless accusations that I'm scum.

[CooLskins]

@mod
Can a roleblocker block the scum kill?
How does RB vs. RB work for you?

Uhhh, most likely nothing would happen. Role blocking a role blocker who role blocks a role blocker = nothing. They are mutually exclusive and the result does nothing noticeable...

@hip, out of interest would you quote the places where panzer mis-reped you? And why did it take you so long to claim your role? I don't see a town motivation for dragging your feet

for so long

over it. It really did distract the town.

[SleepyKrew]

Some mods go with whoever sent it first.

[hiplop]

@mod
Can a roleblocker block the scum kill?
How does RB vs. RB work for you?

Uhhh, most likely nothing would happen. Role blocking a role blocker who role blocks a role blocker = nothing. They are mutually exclusive and the result does nothing noticeable...

@hip, out of interest would you quote the places where panzer mis-reped you? And why did it take you so long to claim your role? I don't see a town motivation for dragging your feet

for so long

over it. It really did distract the town.

I didnt want to full claim, but people kept asking questions. I didn't want to have to claim, but a wagon on me was obviously starting because i explained myself poorly, so i had to.

and sure, its kind of out of context i guess but

But he didn't assume that Sleepy was scum. He was assuming he had a killing role. And that still doesn't clear him from being scum, so even if he did have to think about it, the kill going through just clears him from making the kill not being scum, so the vote still should have stood.

Also, I'm not asking you to tell me what to think, I'm asking you to explain how you think. Communication is key. While that sentence stands, i want Hiplop to explain himself. Not just say, "can't you see it". Cause I can't.

Also, his vote is still OMGUS
So the fact that Hiplop had 0 votes on him at the time of the claim and the fact that his claim just flat doesn't make sense, indicaes that he isn't lying?

Convicted, not desperate. Also, this isn't OMGUS. If anything it's him that is OMGUS on me.

Please explain how Jailkeeping someone then accusing them of killing someone then saying you had to "think about your result" and unvote them makes sense. Cause I sincerely can't make sense of it.

8,11,12,13 all were fairly ambiguous and he was voting purely on the fact that Charter was dead.

And if he thought, he convinced his buddies to kill charter and but someone else made the kill, why unvote sleepy?

Also,Why not revote him after we told him that doesn't confirm him town because he could still be scum, if that was his reasoning?

To me it sounds like he slipped up with what he wanted his fake claim to be. I think he is a Scum Roleblocker, this also doesn't confirm Sleepy, cause sleepy doesn't have a role he can confirm that was blocked.

Just an example, i urge you guys to go to page 35/36. Hes taking things out of context etc.

and look at kool, hes obviously scum too. He doesnt even have to hide it because panzer is unfortunately doing an ok job. We've found the scum team, all we have to do is lynch them.

Read paner's posts yesterday, nothing about them sound like a counter-claim-lynch. He made that up now to get me killed. Props to him if he actually wins with that, but if so town is

[LordChronos]

So, I'm a VT. Elfen's up next.

As far as hiplop vs. Panzer goes, I'm leaning towards lynching hiplop instead of Panzer. hiplop's claim has always been weak anyway, and it's certainly not unheard of to hold off counterclaiming someone. Happened in a different mini that I finished recently. Scum fakeclaimed cop, real cop counterclaimed the next day, because he had more chance to be useful that way. I can see how Panzer would think that in this situation as well.

Also, it's worth noting that the instant hiplop claimed JK, Panzer called the claim bullshit and voted him. Not before the JK claim, but immediately after.

@Panzer

I don't suppose you have a breadcrumb?

[CooLskins]

Some mods go with whoever sent it first.

Question, does who sent it first matter? Two role blockers rbing the same targeting t= to both targeting a vt. Now it would make a difference if one was a jail keeper and that person got targeted or a kill. Think before you post next time.

I didn't want to full claim, but people kept asking questions. I didn't want to have to claim, but a wagon on me was obviously starting because I explained myself poorly, so i had to.

So in basic you full claimed just to save your own skin. And you soft claimed to save somebody else's skin, correct?

@SK, so who's claim do you like best? Hip's or Panzer's?

@Kal, same as above.

[hiplop]

yeah pretty much

[Elfen]

woah woah woah, what we're doing a mass role claim?? Was this decided on?? Does everyone agree with doing this cause I havent read anything about a mas claim yet??

But if we are, of well :/

Claim: VT, no power roles

[PJ.]

Some mods go with whoever sent it first.

Question, does who sent it first matter? Two role blockers rbing the same targeting t= to both targeting a vt. Now it would make a difference if one was a jail keeper and that person got targeted or a kill. Think before you post next time.

In some cases it is actually relevant. Some mods let Mafia RBs kill and RB if their the last person left. If him and a town RB role block eachother if the cancel out the kill could go through depending on if the mod runs it. There are threads in MD on this with this example.

@hip, out of interest would you quote the places where panzer mis-reped you? And why did it take you so long to claim your role? I don't see a town motivation for dragging your feet

for so long

over it. It really did distract the town.

I didnt want to full claim, but people kept asking questions. I didn't want to have to claim, but a wagon on me was obviously starting because i explained myself poorly, so i had to.

and sure, its kind of out of context i guess but

But he didn't assume that Sleepy was scum. He was assuming he had a killing role. And that still doesn't clear him from being scum, so even if he did have to think about it, the kill going through just clears him from making the kill not being scum, so the vote still should have stood.

Also, I'm not asking you to tell me what to think, I'm asking you to explain how you think. Communication is key. While that sentence stands, i want Hiplop to explain himself. Not just say, "can't you see it". Cause I can't.

Also, his vote is still OMGUS
So the fact that Hiplop had 0 votes on him at the time of the claim and the fact that his claim just flat doesn't make sense, indicaes that he isn't lying?

Convicted, not desperate. Also, this isn't OMGUS. If anything it's him that is OMGUS on me.

Please explain how Jailkeeping someone then accusing them of killing someone then saying you had to "think about your result" and unvote them makes sense. Cause I sincerely can't make sense of it.

8,11,12,13 all were fairly ambiguous and he was voting purely on the fact that Charter was dead.

And if he thought, he convinced his buddies to kill charter and but someone else made the kill, why unvote sleepy?

Also,Why not revote him after we told him that doesn't confirm him town because he could still be scum, if that was his reasoning?

To me it sounds like he slipped up with what he wanted his fake claim to be. I think he is a Scum Roleblocker, this also doesn't confirm Sleepy, cause sleepy doesn't have a role he can confirm that was blocked.

Just an example, i urge you guys to go to page 35/36. Hes taking things out of context etc.

and look at kool, hes obviously scum too. He doesnt even have to hide it because panzer is unfortunately doing an ok job. We've found the scum team, all we have to do is lynch them.

Read paner's posts yesterday, nothing about them sound like a counter-claim-lynch. He made that up now to get me killed. Props to him if he actually wins with that, but if so town is [/quote]

I'm in a hurry but more on this in next post.

@chronos and cool: no crumbs

[LordChronos]

woah woah woah, what we're doing a mass role claim?? Was this decided on?? Does everyone agree with doing this cause I havent read anything about a mas claim yet??

But if we are, of well :/

Claim: VT, no power roles

It's kind of irrelevant now, since CooLskins is the only one who hasn't claimed. I think.

[PJ.]

I didnt want to full claim, but people kept asking questions. I didn't want to have to claim, but a wagon on me was obviously starting because i explained myself poorly, so i had to.

What? You had 2 votes and no claim and then after a couple pages
and 2 unvotes you claimed. You had no votes on you. Most suspicion had dropped off you. Your explanation doesn't make any sense at all. Coolskins did a good job of explaining it, you soft claimed to save sleepy and full claimed to save yourself when you perceived pressure.

In my opinion this is scum that cracked under pressure.

and sure, its kind of out of context i guess but

But he didn't assume that Sleepy was scum. He was assuming he had a killing role. And that still doesn't clear him from being scum, so even if he did have to think about it, the kill going through just clears him from making the kill not being scum, so the vote still should have stood.

Also, I'm not asking you to tell me what to think, I'm asking you to explain how you think. Communication is key. While that sentence stands, i want Hiplop to explain himself. Not just say, "can't you see it". Cause I can't.

Also, his vote is still OMGUS
So the fact that Hiplop had 0 votes on him at the time of the claim and the fact that his claim just flat doesn't make sense, indicaes that he isn't lying?

Convicted, not desperate. Also, this isn't OMGUS. If anything it's him that is OMGUS on me.

Please explain how Jailkeeping someone then accusing them of killing someone then saying you had to "think about your result" and unvote them makes sense. Cause I sincerely can't make sense of it.

8,11,12,13 all were fairly ambiguous and he was voting purely on the fact that Charter was dead.

And if he thought, he convinced his buddies to kill charter and but someone else made the kill, why unvote sleepy?

Also,Why not revote him after we told him that doesn't confirm him town because he could still be scum, if that was his reasoning?

To me it sounds like he slipped up with what he wanted his fake claim to be. I think he is a Scum Roleblocker, this also doesn't confirm Sleepy, cause sleepy doesn't have a role he can confirm that was blocked.

Just an example, i urge you guys to go to page 35/36. Hes taking things out of context etc.

Any reason you didn't post the things that I was responding too? I am pretty sure I was responding to specific things you said and if we can't see that then we can't see where i'm twisting your words.

I think we need Kal and Sleepy to post. Where has Kalofer been?

[CooLskins]

woah woah woah, what we're doing a mass role claim?? Was this decided on?? Does everyone agree with doing this cause I havent read anything about a mas claim yet??

But if we are, of well :/

Claim: VT, no power roles

It's kind of irrelevant now, since CooLskins is the only one who hasn't claimed. I think.

that is incorrect, we claimed VT.

@Hip, in your opinion is defending someone else valid?

[SleepyKrew]

@Hydra

Think before you post next time.

Still waiting for mod...

I'm inclined to believe Panzer.

[hiplop]

dont you guys find it suspicious, that kool voted right after Panzer? in lylo, he immediatly voted, both of them. Unless they're masons (which the clearly aren't) they couldnt have possibly come up with a coherent idea. I cant believe you guys are belieivng such obvious scummery

Defending a likely townie, is somethng that all townies should try to do, yes.

[LordChronos]

dont you guys find it suspicious, that kool voted right after Panzer? in lylo, he immediatly voted, both of them. Unless they're masons (which the clearly aren't) they couldnt have possibly come up with a coherent idea. I cant believe you guys are belieivng such obvious scummery

Defending a likely townie, is somethng that all townies should try to do, yes.

I had no idea that "right after" meant several posts, eight hours, and one vote and then unvote from someone else. Why can't two people vote at a similar time without being scumbuddies again?

And your insistence that you claimed because a wagon was forming on you is laughable given that you claimed right after the wagon on you dissolved. And your softclaim didn't even clear Sleepy at all.

[hiplop]

it didnt clear him, no. Someone said SK likely killed charter, but it didnt work that way.