Dr Who - Game over

[Tarhalindur]

A bit busy at the moment, so I'll just answer this one for now.

@Tar

– I don’t see that you answered the following question from Zang in post 152. If you have please say so and I re-dig through your ISO. If not please answer it –

It still seemed to me that you implied that VI was town. As you said enterprising scum would say "bah, go town" to seem like town but it seemed to me like you thought that a VI would be the actual townie that says "bah, go town".

Not my fault that he's drawing an inference that's not there.

Well, mostly not my fault. I did consider it more probable prior to the fake-daykill that Zang would drop a "bah, go town" or similar than a "bah, go scum", as I had a weak town read on Zang at the time (tempered by a nagging suspicion about his reaction to my first vote despite logic telling me it's a town response, but the rest of the evidence was in his favor). However, this was independent of my read on him as VI (if I didn't think there was a chance he would fall for it, I wouldn't have done it - again, I've been offsite for the better part of a year and fairly inactive as a player for about half a year before that, so the rise of fake daykills was news to me - I've never seen one before). Moreover, the reaction I saw in response to the fakekill is still bugging me (Hoppster's points, plus the problem that Zang's tone after the fakekill does not match his lack of vote for me).

Currently, my logical analysis says Zang is town and my gut read says he's scum.

[The Rufflig]

Quick "I found some free time and a computer" initial post.

I will get through everything and not leave until I do

Liar.

[Ant_to_the_max]

Holy crap!
I have some downtime before our competition starts so I wanted to check in.

I guess my post didn't go through...
Most of it was directed at Snake. Will repost it when I can.
I went on to mock his fake claim. Reasoning behind it was very weak and seems like crap to me. I can understand reaction testing but that was just weak. He goes on to say that pro town people would not try and bring things like that up to the surface and prod it, but name claiming does not equal breadcrumbing. There is nothing to "hide" when you flat out claim something like that.

Also went on to say how opportunistic the L-1 vote was.

also saw someone asked my opinion on Zang. Answer was I didn't have a change of opinion on him yet. Have not been able to look at all the latest post by him. And I also acknolegded that Hoppster wanted everyone to take a look at rat.

[Zang]

Add that to his terrible "MoI did something that looks suspicious if Zang flips scum, Vote: MoI" thing, and I just don't get why everyone else seems to be fine with letting him fly under the radar here.

Im confused. Who are you talking about here? I thought you were talking about Hoppster but you just said that he was town. If you don't like how they're flying under the radar then why don't you vote for them? I'm also still confused about you vote on Surye.

Well, mostly not my fault. I did consider it more probable prior to the fake-daykill that Zang would drop a "bah, go town" or similar than a "bah, go scum", as I had a weak town read on Zang at the time

I'm not sure what they do on what other site you go to but do you even see people saying "bah, go town" or "bah, go scum" when they actually are lynched or even normally daykilled?

the problem that Zang's tone after the fakekill does not match his lack of vote for me).

There are a lot scummier people than you.

[jasonT1981]

Day 1 Vote Count 5

Snake 5: Rat, Nexus, MOI, Cogito,Surye (Lynch -2)
Surye 3: BV3,Username,Snake
Rat 2: Hoppster, ruffling
CES 1: Zang
MOI 1: Ant
BV310 1: Tarh,


With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

[Hoppster]

Its not that he missed be but that he never shot. It would be more like if the guy took a pistol, shot someone and water came out. Then the person, soaking wet and confused, asked why he would do that.

But you didn't simply ask Tar why he did that ("Why did you do that, Tar?").

Your response was more along the lines of mocking him for doing that ("<tut tut> Oh, really, Tar, that was an extremely pathetic gambit. I don't know what on earth you were thinking!")


@ Ant: Why are you (still) voting MoI?

@ Zang + iam: Thoughts on pappums?

Spoiler: pappums

As scum, I went after Darla who I tried to paint as active lurking. She was an easy target for scum to go after because she rarely posted and when she did she often didnt have a whole lot to say.

So, as scum, you go after easy targets who don't have a lot to say, and you try to paint them as active lurking. Good to know.

... Wait, why are you voting Snake again?

My vote on Snake was not opportunistic, he is scummy as hell, and his vote to put Surye at L-1 (which wasnt really L-1 but he thought it was) cements his position as scum in my mind, not to mention

his terrible reasoning for not participatiing in day 1.

Unvote
Vote: Snake

His second RQS question, as has been pointed out, can potentially help scum, so I see no town motivation behind it. His third post has a couple of points of concern for me.

First, he says he is going to have to spend some "serious time to read all of this" despite the fact that there is only 5 pages. It sounds to me like he is trying to buy for time and active lurk here.

Also, in my opinion his reason for voting Nexus is bad.

Huh.

Rings a bell...

My vote on Snake was not opportunistic... I'm just going after someone who has a better chance of being lynched today.

Huh.

Of course, actually trying to make a logical case on me was just

out of the question

, considering we only had 16 days left and we'd only been playing for 5. That would be ridiculous. (amirite?)

I still think you are scum.

Huh.

For that contradiction you made which I pointed out and you blatantly ignored?

Also, try actually scum-hunting some time, pappums. I hear it makes you less obvious scum.

[pappums rat]

LOL Hoppster you are so full of shit it is unbelievable. You have completely ignored my points on Snake and instead twisted my reasoning for voting him into some bullshit "case" on me. IIRC you have not commented on Snake's L-1 vote on Surye either. And as far as the "inconsistency" in my ISO you mentioned before, that was solely because of my irritation that there was two huge wagons and a shitload of what I considered unnecessary back and forth between yourself and Surye and Nexus. (Nothing of value was gained because of it.) I then afterwards decided to stop being a pissy little bitch and joined the game properly.

[SnakePlissken]

Oooo. Lookie lookie Im at L-2. Let's clear a few things up. I followed from the previous vote count thinking Suyre was at L-1 with my vote, so if my info was incorrect ah well not my fault and certainly not scummy or else I would have waitied for the hammer vote would I have not? Much like my number one suspect did. I only sheeped onto Suyre's vote as I was trying to get some more info and push us into Day 2 where some reasonable evidence would be before us and I would have more to work with other than the fact that Nexus is scum.

Unvote

VOTE: Nexus

@Hoppster For me in both your examples about Nexus agression are one and the same Nexs Agression= Nexus Scum. This may look like Im tunelling but hey I've seen the pattern before from him. For examples you would need to travel offsite to the UKFF and locate a few of the scum games there.

[Nexus]

*headdesk*

[Nexus]

In fact, I'm bored of this now. Snake: there is a marked difference between my scum games on the UKFF and my scum games here. The games on the UKFF require a different approach.

I'm getting fed up of you chatting shit and not bothering to scum hunt anywhere else.

[SnakePlissken]

Im watching and waiting. Proof will be in the lynching. Oh and Username, why do you think Hoppster is flying under th radar and everyone is ignoring him?

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Pudding, not lynching.

[iamausername]

Add that to his terrible "MoI did something that looks suspicious if Zang flips scum, Vote: MoI" thing, and I just don't get why everyone else seems to be fine with letting him fly under the radar here.

Im confused. Who are you talking about here?

Oh and Username, why do you think Hoppster is flying under th radar and everyone is ignoring him?

I was talking about ANT TO THE MAX. Not Hoppster. ANT TO THE MAX is FUTR scum and everyone is ignoring him.

Sorry, I just reread my last post and I realise that was not entirely clear.

For examples you would need to travel offsite to the UKFF and locate a few of the scum games there.

It would help your point tremendously if you would, say, tell us what the hell UKFF is. Maybe provide us with a link. Maybe point out which games you have played with Nexus as scum, and which games you have played with him as town. Maybe show us why his play here looks like his scum play and not his town play.

The more of that you do, the more likely you are to get anyone to pay attention to your Nexus case.

@ Zang + iam: Thoughts on pappums?

I don't remember noticing him before, so I'll take a look.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Calling it now.

Scum: Snake, Ant, Zang

[SnakePlissken]

I just had a quick look back at Cogito Ergo Sum posts. My results are as follows:

#4 - RVS vote
#10 - Disappointed Zang wasn't quick lynched in RVS
#13 - FOS's pappums rat with no explination
#16 - FOS's Ant & Suyre again with no explination
#22 - Fluff post
#42 - ^scum on Zang again no backup of reasoning
#52 - No PR - again no rhyme or reason to this comment
#62 - Answers my RVS questions
#65 - Response with no content to Zang & Magna about a different game
#67 - Continues with a pointless argument with Zang
#74 - Tries to push the lynch back around onto Zang
#76 - Makes light of trying to lynch Zang
#84 - Says he likes to get people lynched from Day 1 but doesn't say he doesn't do RVS.
#89 -= Votes for me after I go V/LA for the weekend with no reasoning
#94 - Claims reasoning for his votes are FYI
#97 - Fluff
#106 - More Fluff
#108 - Vot hops onto Ant with no reason
#119 - Absolute Nonsense post dressed up as having a point. Has none and again talks about other games.
#126 - Question marks to my Screwdriver comment
#141 - Votes for me once more with no reason
#154 - Fluff and asks me 5 pages on why I asked question 2 in RVS...
#175 - Corrects Mod votecount
#184 - Fluff response to NexusScum
#188 - Corrects MoI's FOS on NexusScum
#211 - Tries to correct my deliberate grammar change i.e. Fluff
#213 - Calls myself, ANt & Zang as the scum team without any reasoning.

In summing up, CES is providing even less content than I am not bothering to scum hunt, sailing along looking like he's active without actually doig anything other than throwing FOS's & Votes around hoping to get on the right Lynch. This really bothers me. Looking back over this I can't beleive that he is actually getting away without actually provising any content for his votes. I have on NexuScum, although I sheeped onto Suyre to get the game moving a bit which in hindsight was too clever or pro town I can assure you I am town.

At least NexusScum is doing stuff. So for now, until proven otherwise

Unvote

VOTE: Cogito Ergo Sum[/b]

[SnakePlissken]

Try again VOTE: Cogito Ergo Sum Man am I having a bad day today..

[The Rufflig]

In summing up, CES is providing even less content than I am not bothering to scum hunt, sailing along looking like he's active without actually doig anything other than throwing FOS's & Votes around hoping to get on the right Lynch. This really bothers me. Looking back over this I can't beleive that he is actually getting away without actually provising any content for his votes.

Absolutely fascinating. You don't mind if I do a PbPA of you in comparison, I trust?

ISO #
0) RVS vote. Poses RVS questions.
1) V/LA
2) vote: Nexus -- reason: offsite meta
3) I'm a sonic screwdriver
4) Small poke at Zang.
5) I never post reads on day 1
6) But I will provide content when there is something to go on
7) more offsite meta on Nexus
8) Why am I attracting more attention for not playing than CES?
9) What evidence do you guys have to pick on me?
10) Ok, ok, I'll defend myself a little. I'm an observer. If I have to participate in day 1 then I'll throw out random comments to observe reactions. FoS: Zang. Town reaction from CES.
11) answers questions
12) unvote
13) puts surye at L-1 (L-2) -- reason: to observe reaction(s)
14) v/la
15) Yes, I sheeped onto surye, but Nexus is still scum. vote: Nexus
16) I'm paying attention to the game. Why is _Hoppster_ flying under the radar?
17/18) PbPA on CES. Nexus is still scum. vote: CES -- reason: he's participating less than I am.

Quite frankly, I can't honestly say that I think CES is providing less content than you. I will admit CES isn't providing a heck of a lot more. Pretty much everything you've said about CES can also be said about you. Your day 1 approach is incredibly anti-town at best and I'm not in a mood to tolerate it. We lynched two people with that approach in the last game I was in: one turned out to be scum and the other turned out to be town (day 1 and day 2 respectively).
UNVOTE:
VOTE: SnakePlissken L-1

Oh, btw, if you think there is something scummy about Hoppster then why not bring those points up instead of complaining that he is flying under the radar?

[MagnaofIllusion]

UNVOTE: Snake
VOTE: Ant

Yeah, I notice that I'm all animal oriented with that unvote / vote combo.

Capturing this for my edification -

Snake 5: Rat, Nexus, MOI, Cogito,Surye (Lynch -2)
Surye 3: BV3,Username,Snake
Rat 2: Hoppster, ruffling
CES 1: Zang
MOI 1: Ant
BV310 1: Tarh,

--

Your post has a tone which I want to describe as patronising, but it's not quite the same in my mind.

It's part-patronising, part-gleeful, part-mocking, part-just-plain-evil.

I don’t see that myself. Actually his reaction to the Daykill was similar to mine … a mixture of annoyance and boredom. I understand that Tar isn’t up on the current site meta but the use of a Daykill Day 1 has become a rather passé joke, IMO.

@ everybody: Can you all stop ignoring pappums? Seriously, look at his ISO, it's so incredibly inconsistent, and his vote on Snake is horribly horribly opportunistic.

I don’t think he’s being ignored as much as we have too many players who are playing in a scummy fashion. I agree with your assessment here and having pappums in my “will lynch Day 1” pool.

--

1) Yup, I see the assumption, but the reason for the assumption is wrong. In my experience, a lurker is much more likely to flip town than scum.

We can debate this post-game but I disagree with this stance.

2) Actually, I'm willing to vote for him. You want to back me on a pappums rat or ces vote?

I would support a pappums wagon. CES I’m going to have to see VC Analysis to make a solid judgement on his alignment.

Here’s a question

– would you support an Ant vote with me?

--

Hoppster in this game reminds me of myself in Mini 1120. As scum, I went after Darla who I tried to paint as active lurking. She was an easy target for scum to go after because she rarely posted and when she did she often didnt have a whole lot to say.

Invoking self as ‘easy target’? Ding!

My vote on Snake was not opportunistic, he is scummy as hell, and his vote to put Surye at L-1 (which wasnt really L-1 but he thought it was) cements his position as scum in my mind, not to mention his terrible reasoning for not participatiing in day 1.

So he was so scummy as hell that he didn’t show up in your ISO at all until you voted for him while he was under pressure? Gotcha.

--

I guess my post didn't go through...
Most of it was directed at Snake. Will repost it when I can.

How will you repost it? Is it stored somewhere? If so why didn’t you just post it now?

I went on to mock his fake claim. Reasoning behind it was very weak and seems like crap to me. I can understand reaction testing but that was just weak. He goes on to say that pro town people would not try and bring things like that up to the surface and prod it, but name claiming does not equal breadcrumbing. There is nothing to "hide" when you flat out claim something like that.

Also went on to say how opportunistic the L-1 vote was.

So all of this scummy behavior wasn’t worthy of a vote? Survey says …. Scummy!

--

I followed from the previous vote count thinking Suyre was at L-1 with my vote, so if my info was incorrect ah well not my fault and certainly not scummy or else I would have waitied for the hammer vote would I have not?

WIFOM .. you’re soaking in it!

--

In fact, I'm bored of this now. Snake: there is a marked difference between my scum games on the UKFF and my scum games here. The games on the UKFF require a different approach.

So you are going out of the way to make two arguments as I see it –

1. You aren’t playing aggressively here.
2. Your MS meta isn’t to play aggressively as scum.

Hmmmmm ….

[Zang]

But you didn't simply ask Tar why he did that ("Why did you do that, Tar?").

I guess it is more like you said but I never really meant to mock him.

@ Zang + iam: Thoughts on pappums?

Currently none but I'll probably go back and look over him later.

I only sheeped onto Suyre's vote as I was trying to get some more info and push us into Day 2 where some reasonable evidence would be before us and I would have more to work with other than the fact that Nexus is scum.

There is plenty of reasonable evidence that we already have, if not for you then at least for everybody else. Just because you're too lazy to scum hunt without somebody being dead does not mean that you should try to randomly lynch someone just because they're at L-2.

@Hoppster For me in both your examples about Nexus agression are one and the same Nexs Agression= Nexus Scum. This may look like Im tunelling but hey I've seen the pattern before from him. For examples you would need to travel offsite to the UKFF and locate a few of the scum games there.

Why don't you find one of the games and post the link here? Also, if he was aggressive in that game because it was off-site, have you looked at any of his scum games on mafiascum? Is he just as aggressive in thoose?

Calling it now.

Scum: Snake, Ant, Zang

Why exactly am I scum? Even Ant and snake, why are they scum?

In summing up, CES is providing even less content than I am not bothering to scum hunt, sailing along looking like he's active without actually doig anything other than throwing FOS's & Votes around hoping to get on the right Lynch. This really bothers me. Looking back over this I can't beleive that he is actually getting away without actually provising any content for his votes. I have on NexuScum, although I sheeped onto Suyre to get the game moving a bit which in hindsight was too clever or pro town I can assure you I am town.

While I agree with your case on CES. You're just as bad. It's page 9 and this is pretty much your first attempt to scumhunt. Also, providing little content and not bothering to scum hunt are the same thing.

I would support a pappums wagon. CES I’m going to have to see VC Analysis to make a solid judgement on his alignment.

What do you think of CES? Why do you need a VC analysis? How would that help?

[MagnaofIllusion]

I would support a pappums wagon. CES I’m going to have to see VC Analysis to make a solid judgement on his alignment.

What do you think of CES? Why do you need a VC analysis? How would that help?

Because CES is playing like every direct iteration of CES I have ever seen. For me the test with him will be Day 2 to Day 3 (if I'm around then) looking at where he as voted and when in context of some flips.

Motivation either Town or Scum will be found there for him there.

CES is much like Fate to me - he actively has cultivated a playstyle I actively despise. But he's actively consistent with it. He's not going to change just by being effectively Policy Lynched. I'm doing the best I can with what I have.

That said he'd be a solid lock for my "Somebody Vig Him" list if we have one in this game.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Why exactly am I scum? Even Ant and snake, why are they scum?

1) Try reading the thread and/or your role PM.
2) Gut.
3) The way Snake handled his (almost certainly unintentionally) scummy question 2 in RQS.

[SnakePlissken]

And so it continues.

[Ant_to_the_max]

RE still voting: unvote was in my big post that didn't go through and I forgot about it.
UNVOTE:

RE repost: it could have been likely that I hit post, and the screen came up with the "oh, someone else has posted" screen and that tab might have still been open on my computer. If not, I can go find all the posts I commented on. As for not right then, I was at a robotics competition at the time. That is why I have not been near an actual computer for a while now.

RE not voting snake: my vote would have put him at L-1. I didn't want to do that. There was more to discuss in this day and I don't want to end this day prematurely. We have a month deadline.

[jasonT1981]

Surye (2) and BV3 (2) Have been prodded

[The Rufflig]

Thank you, Mod!

I would support a pappums wagon. CES I’m going to have to see VC Analysis to make a solid judgement on his alignment.

Bah! Where were you while my vote was on rat? (rhetorical)

Here’s a question – would you support an Ant vote with me?

... Maybe. I keep changing my mind between yes and no while typing this out. He's kind of borderline.