Newbie 1116 -- Game Over

[tucah]

VOTE: VisceraEyes because he voted me D:

Really? This is how you start off your first non-confirmation post? No other thoughts on the game so far, just an OMGUS and leave?

[tucah]

I hate to DP again but I just wanted to apologize for putting the vote in a quote, I completely forgot that we weren't supposed to do that

[VisceraEyes]

@tucah
I don't think you need to apologize for double-posting here. In other forums where it's important for everyone to get their say in, double-posting is indeed taboo. Here however, when we're forced to have several lines of thought and respond to (sometimes) several people, I find it easier to organize MYSELF in separate posts on occasion. Verily, almost every single time I've posted it's had a followup post by yours truly.

Also, it's okay to put other peoples' votes in quotes. I clarified that the mod simply requests that when you're making YOUR official vote, you do so outside of quotes and spoiler tages.

[Grimmjow]

Ok, quick phone post.

@VE: you said you

know

me? How exactly do you know me? Because I've never played in a game with you, we haven't spoke on the forum, and I've only played in one game, which I lost, so I hardly can see where you

know

me.
Also, don't take anything I say as being angry right now. Trust me, if I get angry in a game, you'll know it. Ask JJ.

I'm out of the apartment right now, so I'll update more later with my current reads, etc. But I'm still checking the thread when someone posts.

[tucah]

@Grimmjow - As far as I can tell, VE just used "I know you" as an example of a valid RVS excuse - JJ used it against you before the game started when a bunch of us accidentally voted - he never actually claimed to know you.

[VisceraEyes]

@Grimmjow
No, I never said I know you. I don't know any of you. That's why it appeared to me that you were angry about Yonzy's reasoning...if I'd known that your standard is to get uppity right out of the gates, I'd probably have just accepted that as your standard of play. I'm interested to know which of my statements you're misreading, I'd never claim to know any of you guys.

@Everybody
I think we've got enough to get some scumhunting going. We have a couple of inactive players, but that's to be expected...they'll either show up bringing their game or they won't and they'll eventually die to us or the Mafia. I move we start with cymru96, as he appears to be the most scummy to the most people so far.

For my part, I'm having a hard time reading cymru. He does seem VERY concerned about appearing scummy, this much is painfully obvious. My concern is that he's also very obviously new at the game. I know in my first Mafia game, I was town too...and I freaked OUT the first time someone even HINTED at suspicion of me...which led EVERYONE in the town to immediately lynch me. I'd probably say that his over-concern for appearing scummy is probably a null-tell because of this...at least from me. He's either noob-town or noob-scum...but really either one as far as I'm concerned.

What does everyone else think?

[VisceraEyes]

@tucah
That's it exactly...I was referencing Miss JJ's attempted RVS vote on Grimm for recognizing him from another game. I was also referencing your red-wine-reasoning. Thanks for clearing that up.

[cymru96]

I guess you guys are right, I should find scum not prove that I'm scum 'cause I appear to be good at digging holes!

Unvote

Vote Zihark

Not posting for ages and then suddenly voting as soon as VisceraEyes votes for you seems a bit dodgy.

[VisceraEyes]

Attention Newbieville:
I feel there is now officially enough pressure on Zihark to step up his game. He hasn't posted enough to consider him scummy in any way, and with two votes on him, one more and Mafia can hammer him down if he's a townie.

PLEASE DO NOT PUT ANY MORE PRESSURE VOTES ON ZIHARK UNTIL HE POSTS SOME MORE!

That is all.

[Miss JJ]

I guess you guys are right,

I should find scum not prove that I'm scum

'cause I appear to be good at digging holes!

Unvote

Vote Zihark

Not posting for ages and then suddenly voting as soon as VisceraEyes votes for you seems a bit dodgy.

HUH?

[VisceraEyes]

@Miss JJ
Whoa, this time YOU beat ME to it.

@cymru
Huh? Surely you didn't just noob-slip tell everyone that you're scum...I've got to be reading that wrong.

[Miss JJ]

@ VE I thought you were referring to Grimmjow's 23. But then he unvoted him in 51 and stated reasons why his was was on him in 52. I just thought your choice of "infuriated" a little OTT but I accept your explanation.

[Miss JJ]

Cymru needs to come back and explain not one, but two posts now. Maybe this will help to get him talking.

UNVOTE: VOTE: Cymru

Newbtown who can't articulate or newbscum who slipped - either way I can't just let this go.

[VisceraEyes]

@Miss JJ
Nor should you.

@bigAl
I know YOU have thoughts on this, Mr IC guy. What's your take on cymru?

[tucah]

@cymru - I think we all want a little clarification on your last post, a slip like that needs some explanation.

[bigAl]

^^ Good catch JJ Looks like a typo but you never know...

Whew, I missed a lot in 12 hours. Catching up...

How can you call a vote random when you give a reason behind your vote? RANDOM: proceeding, made, or occurring without definite aim, reason, or pattern. HEY, IF YOU LIST A REASON, THAT'S NOT RANDOM KTHNX

The method of choosing who to vote in the random voting stage is often not "random" at all in the dictionary sense of the word, but it's still effectively random. You could, for example, pick the the first player alphabetically and vote them - it's not a random selection process but the result is still and arbitrary vote. I'd still consider it random enough to not matter how it was chosen. Same case here.

Even if he voted for someone else without giving reason I woul've voted for him 'cause you can't really say it's not random without giving reason.

I know you can vote without giving reason but it pointless 'cause it's like saying "I know something you don't but I'm not telling." It's stupid.

There are many reasons why someone might vote for someone without stating a reason. A cop with a guilty investigation might vote for someone with little reason so that later in the game, if the cop is killed, the rest of the town can look back and see who they were targeting. I already stated why I didn't list a reason for my vote. If you were curious why I didn't state a reason it doesn't hurt to ask instead of just voting.

You seem pretty concerned about not "appearing" scummy. Should I be concerned that there's a reason for that??

Reading through the thread, I was about to say the same, but VE (and tucah and JJ) beat me to it. It /is/ something a lot of new players are concerned with though.

About browsing the forums and not posting - I often check in and see if there are any new posts when I have two free minutes here and there throughout the day, but won't post a response until I have fifteen minutes to actually sit down and read through thoroughly. That being said, I would like contribution(s) with more content from Zihark.

[bigAl]

Oh, and I forgot to mention, putting votes on lurkers /can/ be a valid strategy, but don't go overboard and lynch someone for it. If it becomes a true problem, it's often better to ask for a replacement than to be effectively lynching blind just because they aren't posting. Of course, not posting does not help the town so a little pressure is alright, but simply voting for lurkers gives relatively little information about everyone's alignment.

[cymru96]

whoa whoa whoa... typo. LOL

If I was mafia I would NOT be stupid enough to post that I was mafia.

I meant to say that I should find mafia instead of proving that I'm NOT mafia!

[VisceraEyes]

@cymru
I would hope you wouldn't be that careless, lol

I think the best thing you can do now is to respond to my and Miss JJ's posts regarding how concerned you are for appearing scummy. Any comments? Questions? Once you do, and a couple more people give their thoughts on you (I for one would like to hear what Grimmjow and a few others have to say), we can move on to another subject.

[Grimmjow]

Ok, so I just got back from a winery (WHEEEEEE) so now may not be the best time to post stuff, because my thoughts are not exactly coherent. However, I will say this: I do not in the slightest believe that was just a typo. I am not going to vote him right now because I don't want mafia coming along and hammering him just in case he is actually town, but I do NOT believe that.

@cy: reasons why I should think otherwise, GO!

[VisceraEyes]

@cy (addendum from Grimmjow's post)
.....preferably reasons that don't involve playing the noob-card...it's been pretty much agreed upon that you're a new player, playing the noob-card at this point would only further incriminate you. If you're town, I'd prefer to not lynch you based on that.

[cymru96]

seriously right, belive it or not, it was a typo.

Why you shouldnt lynch me- It was a honest mistake and aside from that, what shows that I'm mafia?
I'm trying to show that I'm not mafia 'cause in the only other game I played I was just trying to find mafia and got lynched in less than an hour.

I have nothing else to say exept that I think that Zihark is suspicious cause he only posts when someone votes him. Suspicious?
Also, whoever said to stop voting Zihark could be in cahoots with him and is trying to cover him.

[VisceraEyes]

Yeah, that was me. I called for a stop of pressure votes on Zihark (assume Town) because if 3 people (assume Town) vote for him, 2 more (assume Mafia) could jump on board and get him lynched. That's a loss for town, regardless of the fact that we get information based on the voting pattern. As bigAl stated earlier, a little pressure to get the ball rolling is all we need at this point...I for one am not pushing for a lynch quite yet.

I will point out, however, that I have NOT removed my vote for him, based on his entirely OMGUS vote on me. Obviously I'm not opposed to switching my vote once a clearer candidate emerges, but for now I'm okay with him sitting at two votes until he steps it up a bit.

[bigAl]

With 7 townies and 2 mafia, it would generally be

very bad

for the mafia if they jump on a lynch real quick at this point. Sure they might get a townie out of play, but that puts a HUGE target on them on day 2 which might be near-impossible to talk their way out of. So one more vote is not a huge risk on its own, but it doesn't hurt to be safe.

[Workdawg]

Ok. I've had the chance to catch up again. I still want to reread it on a computer just to be more thorough, but I think I've got things straight

So far im not seeing anything that really seems scummy, but we still have plenty of time for that.

About cymru's "slip", I don't really think its a big deal. Actually reading what he typed, it doesn't even really make sense at all if he meant to type that. Why would anyone be trying to "prove I'm scum" as he put it? It makes 100% more sense as a simple typo for "prove I'm not scum".

About the issues with people being concerned about looking scummy, I tend to agree that, at least in newbie games, its a very unreliable tell. Most newbies aren't that familiar with the game and don't realize that it looks more scummy to do so.

About the comments about zih being voted up to 3. This is also something I wouldn't be worried about. As al pointed out, it would be EXTREMELY suspicious for two people to jump on his wagon and quick hammer him. Even if it happened, it would most likely be a net gain for the town because of the massive amount of information.

A couple tips for the newbies.
1. The truth will set you free. If you are town, then there is ZERO reason to lie. If you are genuinely trying to scum hunt, your actions will reflect that. We do not need you to tell us you are town, that looks suspicious anyway. Be truthful and call it like you see it.

2. Information is power. The one big thing scum have going for them is information. They know everything and town knows nothing. To that point, if you find something suspicious, speak up. Theory more information we have out there, the more chance we have of finding scum.