Magua's post 6 is one of the most solid starting posts I've seen in recent history. A very firm, nuts and bolts stance against Total War. He could be faking (in fact I see no reason for the scum to even try to get Total War passed given the harsh requirements necessary for it). Still, as a first post, with Magua not aware of how any player will react, this is a solid position with noteworthy leadership components to it.
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ooba 18 wrote:I don't agree with Magua. Total War is the way to go
I should say that you make a fair argument here. I mean, it's politically debatable whether or not Total War could end up benefiting the town or not, but I just don't see enough of an advantage to justify the skip. I would much prefer town-directed lynches and less players in DEFCON 1 than I would a larger segment of (weaker) players without having those data. Let's face facts, it's likely that our lynches will be used, in large part, to cull the weaker segment of our playerbase. At least it will if my vote has anything to say about it.
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Vi 30 wrote:You CAN'T support Total War at this point.
You could, but it would just be for argument's sake. Heck, it's better than RVS or Troop Order List speculating.
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Mina 36 wrote:Confirming in the sense that I've read my role PM, but I still haven't decided whether or not to vote total warfare yet. Big analysis post coming tomorrow when I'm more lucid. I'm trying to see if there's a way to completely break this game, but the terrorist role throws a wrench into things.
Scummy post here. This is not all that difficult of a decision. ooba laid out some fair points and made a serious decision. This reads like stalling to me, and it's unnecessary stalling at that. It doesn't seem very town. Obviously town want to be thoughtful of their decision, but if you can't at least give a reaction to how you stand on Total War (I don't care how non-lucid you are), then that's a red flag to me.
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dana 48 wrote:It's way too confusing on top of being pretty scum-sided, imo.
As I stated earlier, this is another post I'm not fond of. Total War is not inherently a confusing issue. A case can be made both ways (even though I'm firmly in one camp), so this is throwaway rationale to pad the post a little bit. I'm not buying it.
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Toogeloo 49 wrote:/confirmandwhatnot
Bad, anti-town start to the game. No reference to Total War. This implies he isn't reading the posts. Toogeloo would, again, make an acceptable early casuality at this point.
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ML 55 wrote:The scum will be forced to play and be active and try and make false cases, and in such an enviroment, scum are a lot easier to find.
Essentially, total war cuts out the lurk mode for scum.
It is the optimally play.
This is a fair point, although I didn't like how the post started. Still, this is assuming lurkers would be taken out by those with nukes. A fair assumption, but an assumption nonetheless.
Further, I agree that lurkers should deserve nuclear pressure and action if they fail to comply.
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Magua 62 wrote:Since it needs to be unanimous, and its not, doesn't really matter now, does it?
It does. You have to vote one way or the other to confirm, so it would be insincere of him to vote against what he really thinks. There's no reason for him to lie to us if he's town, Magua.
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SDC 97 wrote:I am not ready and do not confirm.
I need more time to talk with my scumbuddies.
Keep your pants on until tonight
Cute, but, given the player who is saying this, I'd lean scummy on it.
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dana 98 wrote:Emphasizing our "vig" shots and taking away our ability to talk things over is most likely going to confuse people and help the scum.
That's entirely fair except that this is pretty much full blown opposition to Total War. I don't understand your unwillingness to call it like you see it. If anything, it should be less confusing in your mind.
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Magua 102 wrote:3. I'd really advise putting Fail Safe (Vengeful) on your list. Unless you expect to get night-killed N1 or N2, it's categorically worse than just having a missile silo.
I would advise against players necessarily choosing the Sub as their first choice unless they want the Sub as their first choice. To be clear, your first point is fine, but the second point that addresses Subs is not.
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AV 104 wrote:I -KNOW- its a very powerful scum role, and this may sound really silly, but it might be best to let the scum have it. What I mean is, if we KNOW scum have got the sub, then we can eventually confirm who they are by making people launch their nukes; if someone launches and we don't see their name attached to the warhead, we know they're holding the secret daykill powar and they're confirmed scum. It could also be useful for rooting out the SK. Thoughts on this?
This is a fair argument. I'm actually willing to give you town points for it. I disagree though, if only because I think having a Vig AND denying the scum/SK this power is just such an advantage for the town.
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Kat 106 wrote:Jeez dana it's as if you're trying to pretend you've never played Defcon mafia or something...
This almost earned town points until I realized she was handling dana with kid gloves. If Kats had the balls to call out dana, she'd be looking sweet right about now. Conversely, this is now more scummy than anything.
Kat 112 wrote:That's pretty much a scumclaim.
Okay, okay. Jeez. You can have your town points back.
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Gamma 120 wrote:Boring+unconfrontational first post plus trying to show he's useful by saying he's going to go reread earlier games instead of actually Being useful.
Good point. I let this kind of slip by me, but I would be willing to join you on this wagon. Don't let me forget I said this.
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Hindu 125 wrote:I want to propose an idea. Say you go for Fail Safe because it's a fun role and everyone wants a fun role. Should you claim it as soon as Defcon 1 lands down?
It's up to the player. I suspect most players will want to claim it as soon as they feel threatened by a nuke. I think if our most prolific players feel like they are solid NK targets (e.g. Vi, Magua, Gamma), they should strongly consider holding onto it for attracting a NK. Magua appears to have declined to take up that offer, but, you know, we'll see what happens. After all, WIFOM.
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ooba 130 wrote:Useless for town:
Eavesdrop: Possible eavesdropper
I strongly disagree with this. I don't know how you could possibly come to this conclusion. Unless the scum were brilliant code masters (which will not be the case), then Eavesdrop will be useful in the right hands.
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Reg 139 wrote:I believe it's needed to have a few roles that everyone agrees need to be targetted by town members.
This has more or less already started unless you are advocating firm, established lists from players. I would disagree with that.
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Magua 141 wrote:It has two effects:
1) If someone nukes you, you *must* nuke them.
2) If you are killed by the scum (but *not* if you are killed by the SK), you may fire a nuke at anyone.
There's only two situations where it is better than simply having a missile silo:
1) If you are killed by the scum N2. In this case, you will get one nuke off whereas if you had a missile silo you'd get none.
2) If you can make multiple people fire nukes at you.
In all other cases, it's worse than a missile silo, because the missile silo would either give you at least as many nukes, and given you a choice as to when and on whom to use them. It's really the choice that makes missile silos so much better.
This is solid. I agree. At first I thought this was a bad idea, but, after reading this, Magua has convinced me.
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Vi 142 wrote:By the end of Day 3 everything worth revealing will probably be public.
Doubtful. The order of the lists will still likely be coveted. This could be useful in catching scum, so the town would be remiss to have everything out in the open too early.
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Kat 152 wrote:Also, the way the draft works, the more town players that go for a role (say, put it as #1), the higher the chance town gets it.
This. This is why I'm weary of affording those that "want to nuke" the luxury of skipping out on the Troops entirely. If they really feel like they can do more damage with their nuke than they could by keeping the scum from having one of the Troop powers, then I guess that's okay. Still, you'd be hard pressed to sell me on that idea.
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ML 154 wrote:Just allocate four players to first pick each of the roles. According to how this 'works', there is probably only one of the four players scum and so town picks up every power role.
Wow. No. No freaking way. Lists aren't made public, so there's about a 0% chance of scum following through on whatever orders you give them.
Either you just made a naive comment or you're scummy for this, and you don't strike me as the naive type.
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SDC 158 wrote:Pooky is town.
[...]
RC too.
[...]
InHim is town.
Explain these reads at this point in the game. All three of us have effectively given zero content outside of fluff and our support/opposition of Total War. This reads completely without merit to me. You leave off too many people, so it isn't all-encompassing.
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Magua 160 wrote:Fallout Shelter is also antitown crap that no town should take.
Airbase is antitown crap that no town should take..
I disagree with Fallout Shelter and strongly disagree with Airbase. Fallout Shelter keeps renegade townies (which we have a considerable number of) from nuking someone indiscriminately. If scum has it, then, theoretically, the town should be easily able to overwhelm him, but if town has it, then, theoretically, there will be less overall support for him to go.
I definitely disagree with Airbase being crap. That's basically a bulletproof vest. You could thwart a NK. I don't know what you're smoking when you say this is crap.
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Hez 161 wrote:Having read DEFCON 1 already I disagree with gammagooey #131 -- Hinduragi was scum in that game and nuked his buddy on way to victory.
Nuking is like very intense bussing -- we shuold not be using it to clear people.
Another reason why Fallout Shelter is a good power (not the best by any means, but a solid one). Not the scum nuking scum thing, but the idea of scum nuking at all. Scum are virtually guaranteed to get at least one nuclear silo. More likely 2 or 3. They may sit on their hands, but I doubt it, especially if one of our nuke-friendly players are scum.
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Kat 165 wrote:I wish it were possible for Fate to have both Airbase and Bunker.
You think SDC is town?
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Spy 191 wrote:I was trying to decide if that magua business was calculated or not is all.
I can't imagine why Magua would bank his creditability on a gambit like this if he were town. He was already doing fairly well in most players' eyes (with the exception of a few sketchy people). This move, however, reads almost too ballsy to me. Magua could very well have a nuke come DEFCON 1, why not just nuke SDC then?
From this argument SDC doesn't move much, and Magua looks considerably worse.
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Pooky 194 wrote:but if we go to total war and start nuking and kill all the scum, won't that mean scum do not get a nightkill?
As opposed to now, when we have to lynch and shit which means scum will have a chance to shoot at us?
Now that we're officially on DEFCON 4, this is just pure fluff. If anything, you're deliberately refusing to discuss actual things going on. Unless this is leading you somewhere, then I dislike it.
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Gamma 198 wrote:Nooot in favor of a Magua d1 death. I'd say he can die later if he doesn't go from setup stuff->good contentz but that applies to a lot of players at this point.
But what about this gambit? That's the kicker.
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inHim 201 wrote:did this ever happen.
Pot, meet kettle. You may not have promised anything concrete, but you haven't really given us anything either.
I mean, clearly Mina is more guilty than you are, but you should work on improving yourself, friend.
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Vi 211 wrote:Hinduragi reads as straight-up insincere in all of his posts.
Our guts differ unless you can show me something solid.
Vi 211 wrote:Regfan is scum for saying "we should organize our claims" and then not a thing to help it.
This.
Vi 211 wrote:Recent events put inHim up to maybe Town.
Nope.
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AV 212 wrote:Why don't I make your list either?
Perceptive, even if it's about you.
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SJ 214 wrote:mina/magua/pooky/kats are all town before i go.
Bad, seemingly random, set of predictions. I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that SJ has absolutely nothing to back up his Mina or Pooky reads whatsoever.
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LL 217 wrote:Seriously, this whole lynch trade bullshit is going to kill two of my town reads.
Agree in the case of Magua. I have no idea how you see SDC as town though.
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Reg 220 wrote:I'm still attempting to fully grasp the benefits and negatives of each role, I don't think that puts me in any position to lead an organisation.
You may not fully recognize how controversial this position is. If you really believe this, you need to back it up or retract it.
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inHim 221 wrote:Awesome. Explain reading both Mina and I as scum. Cause I don't think you can be town and in good faith make that connection.
Easy. You both are sucking so far. Clear enough for you?
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ooba 225 wrote:I reiterate - choosing Fallout Shelter, Fail Safe, eavesdrop, CI over a Nuke is a sub-optimal and anti-town move for town.
Nope. Eavesdrop, CI, and Fallout Shelter are all acceptable powers for the town.
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AV 236 wrote:Eavesdrop seemed to be useful for town in DEFCON 2.0 at least. Don't write it completely out, but it takes a certain mindset to be able to crack whatever codes the scum inevitably use.
Why are you afraid to smack ooba down for this? Even if you think he's town, there's no reason to pussyfoot around the issue.
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Toogeloo 237 wrote:Because after that first pick, your odds of getting your second pick are abysmally low, and you will likely end up with a Silo.
This may be true, but this is quite an assumption. You're assuming that there will be a wide range of people picking unique abilities at their number one slot. While I agree there is certainly a substantial drop off from 1 to 2, this seems like a little overkill.
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Mina 241 wrote:I'm too lazy to actually assign people draft lists or calculate statistics or account for a billion other role interactions.
What a complete waste of an opportunity to actually have done something productive (I don't mean you should've done what I quoted, I mean that you admitting to actually considering this as a valid option is bad).
I would like to see you gone much sooner rather than later.
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Kat 243 wrote:LOL
This may be a contradiction to what you said in post 165. Please explain.
Kat 247 wrote:CLAIMING COUNTERINTELLEGENCE IS A SCUMCLAIM AND WILL BE NUKED ON SIGHT.
Don't take it.
It's on my list. Deal with it.
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Mina 253 wrote:And hey, I'm not interested in mechanics at all this game. I don't care whether you choose Air Base or Fallout Shelter or Counter. I've just announced that I'm going to lurk until DEFCON 3.
Are you seriously just admitting that you're not willing to give us any information on your role slot at all (aside from the crap you've already given us)? As if I needed another reason to advocate for your immediate lynch.
Mina 253 wrote:By the way, just curious, do you think I talked/thought about the mechanics in DEFCON 2.0 (in which I was scum)?
Do I think you would use WIFOM to make yourself look townie? Yes.
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Vi 256 wrote:Magua definitely talked about mechanics but he basically ran the show about it.
Have you still not addressed Magua's lynch trading? If you have, I apologize, but I don't think you have. Ergo, I don't like how you've ignored it
while
calling Magua untouchable town.
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SJ 257 wrote:OUTPLAYED. MY TOWN READ WAS A TRAP AND YOU FELL RIGHT INTO IT.
If you follow through on this, then I'll cut you some slack. If me and you aren't on a Mina wagon tomorrow, then you're going to be facing my wrath.
SJ 265 wrote:(it was pretty obviously a fucking joke, I'm not going to change my town read on her just because
she
thinks I should, in fact since she didn't even see why she was a town read in the first place, idc)
What a shame. Back to the scumlist you go, I guess. You two lovebirds can see each other in hell (scum don't go to heaven).
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Toast 272 wrote:Ya'all need to turn in your roles so I can scumhunt based on something other than set-up plans.
You're scumhunting?
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SDC 280 wrote:YOU THINK YOU CAN TAKE DOWN THE SDC?
WE ARE LEGION
Magua, maybe I'd be willing to lose you both after all.
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LL 292 wrote:There's plenty to look at between SDC and Magua, myself and inhim and Hez vs. SpyreX.
Why haven't you commented on any of it?
Let us not forget that Mina took the same position, regardless if she used prettier words to do so or not.
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Toast 295 wrote:Also, I haven't really gotten into this game yet, which is why I want to get to DEFCON 3 (more action)
Since you're falling right into their trap (PROTIP: There's no way you can talk your way out of this and look good, Toast. You'll only look worse and worse or, by some miracle, stay at the same level of "willing to lynch, even if not the favorite".), you might as well elaborate on why it isn't you haven't been able to get into this game. I see you haven't casted a hypothetical vote. I see you haven't address a number of serious proposals and allegations (Magua's lynch trading, Mina's scumminess, SCD's list, Kat's proposal, etc etc).
Toast 303 wrote:In conclusion, THERE ARE ABSOLUTELY NO CASES.
You're killing me, Toast. I don't want to come after you, but you're digging yourself into a deeper and deeper hole. By all means, if you disagree with the scum predictions, then come out against them. Don't just sit here and dismiss them though. It doesn't make you look good at all.
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Mina 308 wrote:In all honesty, I didn't post yesterday partly because I couldn't find a breaking strategy with no loopholes (Aircraft Carrier/the terrorist's free draft choice/Fail Safe/Submarine/double-kills on the Battleshipped player/Counterintelligence all seemed to get in the way), and partly just because I was lazy that day and not in the mood to get into a protracted argument over which minor power role was better. But, um, if you actually took that explanation seriously, you should be telling people to kill me with fire, not "grudgingly accepting" it.
Joking or not, there's still no real content here (pitter patter with Vi and SJ notwithstanding). I mean, yeah, you made a couple of points, which is more than I can say for some others, but I'm not voting based wholly on lurking. I don't like the tone of your posts either. I don't like empty promises. I don't like tongue-in-cheek stuff if it's coupled with lurking. I don't like you skirting the more serious issues (e.g. who you'll be voting for and why that's where you're going). I don't want you around if I'm going to get more of the same.
...but then you decided to actually
do something, so now I'm not as sure.
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Spy 312 wrote:Town (THIS IS NOT NEGOTIABLE):
Mina
SDC
Luigi
Gamma
Pretty poor list. At least Pooky isn't-
Spy 312 wrote:Probably Town:
Pooky
...there.
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SDC 313 wrote:
Everyone and I mean EVERYONE needs to affirm they aren't putting Airbase at #1. This way we have a guaranteed role out of scum's hands.
I'm not going to be guaranteeing that. Deal with it.
SDC 325 wrote:IM NOT OBVTOWN FFS
NOT EVEN CLOSE
IM A VIABLE FUCKIN MISLYNCH TARGET AS USUAL
ISNT THAT RIGHT RC?
This is correct.
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gorilla 331 wrote:WHY ME
Ouch. And down goes gorilla.
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Reg 335 wrote:Town [From Strongest To Weakest]
SDC. All of their posts. Fucking obvious yet annoying town.
Mina: Town. #241. #310.
Gamma. Town: #15. #99. #137. #315.
Kats. Town: #24. #104. #247.
SpyreX: Town. #240. #312.
Magua: Town. #160. #162. #175.
Magister. Town. #150. #163.
Hez. Town. #193
Scum [From Strongest To Weakest]
Zhero: Scum. #27. #127.
AV: Scum. #212.
Toasty: Scum. #272. #295. Town. #303
Socio: Need to read into.
LLD: Town. #217. Scum. #234. #249.
Toog: Scum. #96
I've seen worse, but this is acceptable. Enough to keep you low on my death wish list, at least. I don't like the post numbers, because I have no idea what's moving you to read these people in this way without actually going back to look. I don't care enough to do so at the moment, but hopefully my willingness not to want you dead as any sort of priority will outweigh that. I have faith you'll comment more directly as the game moves on though.
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ML 337 wrote:Mina actually makes a good point against swift justice. (about recieving a town read before doing anything) Too often I see scum throwing out town reads in an attempt to 'get in the good books' of town players, making themself a less attractive lynch target.
Sure. And given her post 310, I'm willing to lynch SJ over her.
ML 338 wrote:All these town----->scum lists floating around now need to dissipate. I don't need a laundry list of every player in the game (who everyone also happens to be reading), what people need is pointed attacks on those doing scummy things.
So you don't want to know what people are thinking? Maybe you won't have to if we go ahead and lynch you first, eh? I like how you say this and turn around and say...
ML 344 wrote:Toasty, would you mind giving me a read (or even sentence or two) on the following players
Get out of here with this.
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Spy 341 wrote:[Toasty's] for nukin' not for lynchin but seriously now.
Agreed.
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Toast 354 wrote:So,
Regfan is town
Swift Justice is null (a lot of my problems with him aren't necessarily scummy, but I don't like his play)
Socio is scummy, he seems all over the place, is under the radar, doesn't support his reads with evidence.
See? You can get reads in DEFCON 4. I'm glad you made this post. This is something I can point to if anyone criticizes me for calling you townie.
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Hez 361 wrote:Yay I am being policy-lynched. Beware of meta, folks. I'm very vengeful. (This does not apply to the scum on my future wagon -- nor
does this apply if I flip scum -- but any town who policy lynch me beware I WILL get my revenge)
What did you have, like, three people lay some heat on you? Dana turned it up a bit, but come on. This doesn't read townie to me, this reads like an paranoid scumbag.
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AV 362 wrote: how so?
Gross. Just as bad as gorilla.
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Hez 368 wrote:This ultimately comes down to a f*#%#*% old boys club. If SpyreX or someone else more well known had said "I want to nuke so and so and I'm doing so for sure" nobody would bat an eye. I am very very very angry right now.
You can be as bitter as you want, but know that I'm not interested in losing you because of an "old boys club", but because this attitude is scummy.
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Vi 375 wrote:On the plus side AV looks quite a bit better after this engagement.
I disagree. I think AV is baiting him. There's no reason to continue with Hez. Scum or not, he's not sided with this town. He should be gotten rid of.
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ooba 377 wrote:@SDC: AirBase is on my troop deployment list .. Maybe at my #1 spot too ..
Thank you. You'll be my number 1 townie for this.
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Toogeloo 379 wrote:Do you honestly believe that not a single town is going to put Air Base on their list? We ARE supposed to be WIFOMing it up on our roles after all. What if another town, say, me, takes Air Base but we all pretend you have Air Base.
You were so close to beating ooba. If you would've said this before ooba did, I would've given you massive townie points. Still, this is deserving of some props. Anyone who will not roll over to SDC this game will get some love from me.
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ML 393 wrote:When was this? (Can you link it?)
You should just assume that it's always happening.
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Kat 403 wrote:The fact we won't have nukes coming from Fate/Reck.
I really hate how you have been going back and forth on this. Do you think they are town or not?
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Gamma 408 wrote:Hez can still superdie, he's a way better player than he's shown here and he's abusing the I'M ANGRYMcOMGUS to try and either get a town read for idiotic levels of recklessness or just try to scare people away from noosing him.
Agree 100%. I'd prefer to nuke him rather than lynch him, but as long as he dies, I'm happy.
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gorilla 409 wrote:admittedly I have no knowledge of his meta to know if he normally digs his own grave or not.
I don't care if he's done the same thing in a hundred games as town, I don't want him around. He's completely unhelpful.
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dana 410 wrote:I obviously read what was in the angle brackets. Now could you answer my question about what makes me scum about my response? Because you say you want me dead for it. I do not see how the post "waffles" nor how "saying nothing but I'm willing to policy lynch hez" makes me scummy. I'm really confused as to why you are trying to make this difficult for me. Do you just really want me to be scum?
You know what, dana? You still suffer from the same issue I had with you from the very first game I remember playing with you. You're far too self-interested. Anything that's not about you is put on the backburner while you focus solely on what concerns you. That level of self-interest is unfitting of a town player, frankly. This is why I see you as scum. This is why I see you as scum a majority of the times I play against you.
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Hindu 411 wrote:I've played with scum AV and town AV before and haven't seen anything that backed either read.
We should probably lynch him to be safe.
Also your
post 414 is arguably the best post of the game (barring possibly a couple of Magua's posts and Mina's turnaround post 310 that took her from the worst on my scumlist to null).
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SP 416 wrote:I generally ride the line to make the ignorants think keeping me around is a good idea.
Call me ignorant then.
SP 417 wrote:I cannot confirm nor deny that I may or may not put AIRBASE NUMBA ONE.
Townpoints.
Me + ooba + Toogeloo + SP are part of the cool customers alliance. The rest of you didn't have enough balls to join.
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Magua 420 wrote:I notice your scumlist only contains extremely easy targets. Why is that?
Don't you dare go there.
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Mina 421 wrote:I just felt the need to tell you that I hate you for writing this post. No, seriously. Reading it overcame me with the powerful urge to reach through my computer screen and smack you upside the head. Actual physical rage.
