New York 131: Tricycle Mafia (Day 5)

[Toon Fighter]

@silver: What is your opinion on Pine RB me?

[silverbullet999]

bad, and his overall reaction to being questioned about it, worse

[Pine]

Because it was a mistake, plain and simple.

[MrZepher]

I'm more inclined to think Pine was just being dumb.

I'd rather lynch Maxous, but I can't control the votes of others.
I'm not going to complain with a Pine lynch.

[Nobody Special]

I've had an incredibly hectic weekend. Have to re-read most of the game.

Not thrilled with Pine (again, or is that still?).

Should have real content by tomorrow or Tuesday.

[Toon Fighter]

Why would scum keep me (a vig) alive and kill a VT instead? The only explanation is that they RB me. That means they have a RB in their team. And the only RB that we know of is Pine, that has claimed to have RB me. Therefore, Pine is a probable scum RB.

Pine, can you remind us of who you RB N1 and N2?

[Toon Fighter]

The only other possible explanation is that scum thought I was a SK, or that I would miss my shot tonight. Because of yesterday's play, I was likely gonna shoot Max or Mr Zepher, but most likely Max. That leaves with the following options:

1) Pine is scum RB and RB me last night to prevent me from killing scum (most likely to me)
2) There is another RB, scum aligned, and Pine is RB town aligned (not very likely, I don't believe we have 2 RB in this game)
3) Scum thought I was SK (possibly NK immune) and didn't bother to shoot me (maybe, but I could still hit scum in that scenario)
4) Scum thought I was gonna miss my kill, that was likely on Max last night (the other possibility, but we can only be sure if Pine flips)

Therefore, if Pine is innocent, Max is likely innocent aswell. If Pine is scum, Max is also likely to be scum

[Uite]

I'm thoroughly confused at this game. Mastin's fake was horrible and probably deserved the lynch. Toon's claim seems real enough, though that raises the question why he wasn't killed at night. Even if jmurph was a confirmed townie, shooting a claimed vig would have higher priority I'd think. Unless he could be blocked...

I'll need some time to untangle this mess, and for the meantime I'll park my vote on NS, because really, he's done even less than me this game.

VOTE: Nobody Special

[Uite]

EBWOP: That meant to say that if he's scum, he's doing a really good job of keeping a low profile, and I certainly don't want him around in LyLo because of that.

[Pine]

I blocked Uite and Surye. Uite was a fishing expedition, Surye because we all thought he was scum.

We should lynch Maxous, though NS is a good alternate. I'd still like to see Toon die before LyLo.

[silverbullet999]

UNVOTE: Pine
he's dumb
I forgot he counterclaimed to get dk killed, could be bussing i guess but eh for now

ns being like he is has normally meant scum ns... (though he maybe does this as town now too? )

nonetheless VOTE: ns

[silverbullet999]

btw nham where you at

[Toon Fighter]

@Pine: In your opinion, all townies should be dead before LyLo. First mastin, now me...

[Pine]

I don't want you in LyLo because your reads are terribad and I still think you might be a clever SK.

[MrZepher]

The thing with the DK counterclaim is that he could have taken advantage of the fact DK was going to be lynched pretty much no matter what to bus his scum buddy. (probably could have worded that better but I think you get the point)
Also, if Pine is scum, he is more than likely a jailkeeper. I don't think scum can kill a JK target.

I'm not sure about my read on NS.
My gut says he's town so I haven't paid much attention to him really.

[nhammen]

VOTE: Toon Fighter

I roleblocked Toon and no second kill happened. Mafia scum or SK scum.

He claimed vig. Of course there was no second kill.

I didn't believe the claim. It's SK-posing-as-vig, or scum posing as vig.

In that case, why use the logic that a kill didn't happen? If he was lying then blocking him would negate a kill, and if he was telling the truth then blocking him would negate a kill. So the negated kill would then be a nulltell.

I seriously expected to be dead by now.

vote: Pine

RB me was scummy as hell. Seriously, I had just cc a vig and lynched him. You are obvscum RB.

Given his reasoning, I can understand the RB, but not his response after it was successful. He essentially assumed you were fakeclaiming, and then used a nulltell to reinforce that opinion.

He had lurked throughout D1, but from the posts he made he looked like he could be on Amor's scumteam. I don't remember exactly why I chose him, but tomorrow I'll look more into it.

Do not like.

"down to NS or you"...as my top suspects for SK, which is the kill I was trying to prevent. I forgot about this game a bit and had to make a last-second decision when quadz poked me 2 hours before deadline asking for my choice. It was perhaps ill-considered.

Why were you trying to prevent the SK kill specifically?

Pine makes little sense.. of course Toon Fighter was the second kill source.
And it seems

he did

read that part where Toon claimed. His kills were'nt pro-town.'Oh apart from the Surye one' which was

half his kills.

And only after he voted did he ask for an explanation of why Wraith was killed.
And this is not to mention how Pine seems overly worried about the presence of a SK in this game. FFS I had him as my strongest town-read earlier.

Toon Fighter is not mafia. It would make such negative sense to counterclaim a vig as mafia.
It's quite unlikely he is a SK either. Would you immediatly cc a vig and hammer instead of going 'oh shit is he really a vig? Gotta be careful'. Because if Mastion actually flipped vig we would know Toon is a SK.
So yeah Toon is town and I'm taking a truckload of egg on my face.

Trivia question: Who can tell me Toon Fighter's last vote before he hammered Mastin?

VOTE: Pine

Agree wit this entire post, except the part about ccing a vig claim. There had been two kills every night, and this is a large normal. Chance of both a vig and a SK approaches zero. However, Toon was very straightforward about it, which I believe probably implies a pro-town view.

I still hold my theory of a {Max, Pine} scum team, but I don't really see how these last posts/votes fit the theory. I'm gonna think about it and later tell my thoughts

I guess I need to reread to see where that theory came from.

VOTE: pine

Commentary not included?

I've had an incredibly hectic weekend. Have to re-read most of the game.

Not thrilled with Pine (again, or is that still?).

Should have real content by tomorrow or Tuesday.

Eagerly awaiting the arrival of said content.

The only other possible explanation is that scum thought I was a SK, or that I would miss my shot tonight. Because of yesterday's play, I was likely gonna shoot Max or Mr Zepher, but most likely Max. That leaves with the following options:

1) Pine is scum RB and RB me last night to prevent me from killing scum (most likely to me)
2) There is another RB, scum aligned, and Pine is RB town aligned (not very likely, I don't believe we have 2 RB in this game)
3) Scum thought I was SK (possibly NK immune) and didn't bother to shoot me (maybe, but I could still hit scum in that scenario)
4) Scum thought I was gonna miss my kill, that was likely on Max last night (the other possibility, but we can only be sure if Pine flips)

Therefore, if Pine is innocent, Max is likely innocent aswell. If Pine is scum, Max is also likely to be scum

OK, I can agree with this logic, although after reading (3) I think there is one more possibility: 5) Scum thought a Doc would be more likely to protect you than jmurph. But as with three, you could still hit scum in that scenario.

I'm thoroughly confused at this game. Mastin's fake was horrible and probably deserved the lynch. Toon's claim seems real enough, though that raises the question why he wasn't killed at night. Even if jmurph was a confirmed townie, shooting a claimed vig would have higher priority I'd think. Unless he could be blocked...

I'll need some time to untangle this mess, and for the meantime I'll park my vote on NS, because really, he's done even less than me this game.

VOTE: Nobody Special

Agree with this post. Also, I can't remember why I excluded him, but I do not remember having NS as a suspect. I believe this needs to be remedied.

Also, if Pine is scum, he is more than likely a jailkeeper.

How would you know this? Where does this information come from?

[MrZepher]

If you look slightly to the right of what you quoted, I specifically gave the exact reason why.

Thanks for twisting that post though. Scum points have been dispersed to you account.

[MrZepher]

Actually I take that back, that was rather vague. My apologies.

Allow me to regather the thought process that brought me to that conclusion.

[Pine]

I was wondering how you leaped to the jailkeeper conclusion as well.

You stated that if I'm Town I'm most likely a Jailkeeper...but if I'm Town, then I have no reason to lie, and I've stated my role as Roleblocker, not JK. You don't make sense, sir, and neither does your explanation.

[Pine]

Also @nham: I'm more concerned with SK right now because the SK is basically a scumteam of one, whereas the Mafia is a team of 2 (maybe but not likely 3). Eliminating one of the night kills is simpler if you pursue the single-member faction.

I'm actually toying with writing up an article on MD about the benefits of hunting SKs right from the start alongside the Mafia. They should be treated as one-member scumteams, not as Townally-until-proven-otherwise. Thinking about this lately has made me paranoid about vig claims.

[MrZepher]

Ah, right.
It was in line with the idea that Pine could have been bussing DK, in which case I find it more likely that he's a JK as apposed to an RB.
(I thought immediately after reading his claim that it wouldn't be difficult for a scum JK to claim RB.)
Honestly I don't think I've ever seen a town jk, or a scum rb.
This coupled with the lack of a vig kill, but that's just what my mind went to first.
It's a weak assumption but I feel like it has its place.

Also, jk rb jk rb. Because I didn't say it enough as it is.

PREDIT:
I never said you were town, and I only said hypothetically if you were scum. Nice try though.
The circular logic in your defense is noted though.

Also, as a side note:
I'm prone to jumping to random and almost irrational conclusions.
Just bear with me when I do that. An explanation or revocation will come shortly after when prompted.

OTHER PREDIT:
I think all efforts aimed at finding the SK should have been vanquished after Mastin flipped town.
If Toon was the SK, he would have been smarter than to claim Vig, as now we have an eye on his kills.
(I.E. he just reduced his chances for winning as SK by a good margin)

[Pine]

I've seen both Town JK and scum RB. Both recently.

In [REDACTED], that we're both involved with, there was a Town JK.

Unvote

Vote: Zepher

Apparent contradictions and scrambling to fix the mistake.

[Pine]

Zepher also hasn't had any decent pressure on him all game, and it's about damn time.

[silverbullet999]

somebody else also hasn't had any decent pressure on him all game... it's nobody special... but i think he's the special one for today!

[MrZepher]

I usually keep ongoing games off my mind so I don't accidentally use them as evidence.
I won't use it as justification for anything until the game is over, and you'd be wise to do the same.
As such, that point becomes instantly invalid as soon as it was made.

Also, I think pressure has been off of me because I'm more than willing to be vig'd and if our vig dies then I'm fine with being a lynch too if town can afford to lose the VT. I have no problems since I'm pretty sure that there's a lot to gain from my flip, I just don't think it's worth ending the day for it.
Maybe you could be pro-town tonight and not RB mentioned vig.

There are better places for a vote Pine and you know it. Don't start playing like VI town just to look like you're scumhunting.
Start :betterposting: plz

In the meantime, I'm going to see if NS has actually said anything.
My vote won't move from Maxous though.