DEFCON Mafia 3.0 - Over, American Victory!

[SpyreX]

Vote: Hez

YESSSssss

[Gammagooey]

THREE CHEERS FOR SPYREX

Vote: HezLucky

[Toogeloo]

Going with my scumgut read.

Vote: AVox

In other news, I got exactly what I wanted. I am Vanilla for all intents and purposes in the game. Celebrations ahoy my fellow Americans, I am the mole in the Euro contingent. I am...

AMERICAN COUNTER-INTELLIGENCE.


Bask in your Eavesdropping if you got it American buddy; fear not your scanning power Espionagist. Denial of documents has been done. I don't give a shit if Katsuki thinks that CI is a scum claim, it was my WIFOM that drew me to take it in the first place.

[AurorusVox]

Vote: Hinduragi

^RedCoyote disproving Hinduragi vote [/injoke]

Unvote;
Vote: HezLucky

^die scum die

---

I'm of the opinion that at least one of the people jockeying for the ability to lead town is scum.

Yeah? Which one? Care to be a bit less general? This is about as useful as "thar's scum on that thar wagon"

Why pick out LLD? Why not IS/Pooky who have been talking about all the Eurotrash they'll smite without specifics? Selective interrogation?

---

I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

"Pooky, I am a true American hero and am willing to pledge my nuclear weapons to the destruction of Euro Scum and their Traitor Sympathizer Brethren, You can tell that I am a true American hero because of ___________Fill this in_______________ "

^Anti-town and blatant role-fishing. If you reveal you have a nuke by filling this form in then scummz be knowing who has PRs and whatnot.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Vote: Hez

Choo Choo I'm a train.

[HezLucky]

I'm not reading SDC as Town for the 'hey, give us Airbase' claim when we have two independant scum factions (Euro and Terrorist) at play. My read comes from other posts.

Can you explain this? If there was only one scum faction, how would that change your read on SDC?

Also to all you jokers out there, you guys do realize that SDC, by taking airbase, are already SIGNING A PACT TO DIE before MYLO right? They themselves have offered to die before then. I don't see scum doing this, MEANING THEY ARE TOWN.

Not to mention AIRBASE just allows them to be immune to NKs, not unkillable...
Even if you guys don't think they're town, the fact that they're dying before MYLO to prevent any shenanigans should mean that if you are town, you should have no reason to want to stop them. Aka, those who are going "wah wah xFATEx is gonna be un-NK-able me dun want them to have airbase cuz they gonna nail our scumteam wah wah" are probably SCUM.

ALL IN ALL, AIRBASE SHOULD GO TO xFATEx.

Katsuki raises an excellent point here and gives me my first town-read of the game.


I actually like IS in this game from #498. But given that all of my reads have been off lately, that might mean he's scum :S

I'm of the opinion that at least one of the people jockeying for the ability to lead town is scum.

I'll be watching SDC/IS/Pooky closely for this reason.

Agreed. One of them is using meta to their advantage.

Vote: AurorusVox

[HezLucky]

Vote: Hez

Choo Choo I'm a train.

Do you want to lynch scum or do you want to lynch anti-town?

Your vote needs to be on AV.

[Screaming Death Clan]

WHICH ONE OF YOU RAT BASTARDS...

MOTHER. FUCKERS.

[Magua]

Why pick out LLD? Why not IS/Pooky who have been talking about all the Eurotrash they'll smite without specifics? Selective interrogation?

Because IS/Pooky are having their little therapeutic roleplay session and have already been shelved as useless. LLD is trying to find the scum. But LLD's statement was so generic as to be useless, which is unusual for LLD in my experience. Hence, the question. It's cool. I'm not voting her for it. I'm voting you.

^Anti-town and blatant role-fishing. If you reveal you have a nuke by filling this form in then scummz be knowing who has PRs and whatnot.

Seriously? The mind boggles.

[Mina]

VOTE: AurorusVox

FOS: Anyone voting for someone other than AurorusVox

It is incredible how easy he is to read.

Hey, SpyreX? Gamma? Do you actually think Hez is

scum

, or are you just policy-wagoning him?

Toogeloo, why didn't you wait until D3 to claim Counterintelligence? You might have been able to eat a NK before then. That said, Toog's claim looks townish, both because the execution is townish, and because it's too bold a move for scum after Katsuki's auto-nuke dictate--particularly since Eavesdrop could out them if it doesn't get results one night.

[Gammagooey]

Gamma? Do you actually think Hez is

scum

That one. If you can keep it a SECRET from SpyreX you can go look at his other games where he actually shows intelligence and does good scumhunting in the first few days instead of threatening every person who pokes at him.

AV stretching the joke to be the worst possible thing that could exist is pretty bad but he's not today's noose.

[MagnaofIllusion]

VOTE: AV

My best scum read from pre-game. Plus Mina, Magua and Toog also are on the same page.

--

I am going to be nuking (should I have a nuke) the player with the lowest post count as soon as we get to DEFCON 1. Don't be that player.

So before any actual voting / live Day scum-hunting goes on that might shape your theortical opinion on who is scum you’ve already decided who you would Nuke? And have phrased it is such a way that you aren’t even targeting a specific player but someone who meets and arbitrary guideline?

Gotcha. Scummy.

--

Magua needs to be nuked at Defcon 1.

Elaborate!

--

Can you explain this? If there was only one scum faction, how would that change your read on SDC?

I think it’s pretty clear.

1. My read on SDC has ZERO to do with his ‘Airbase’ posting.
2. Asking theoretical question like “If there was only one scum faction” is rather pointless in an Open game where we KNOW there are two.

Do you want to lynch scum or do you want to lynch anti-town?

Are you specifically stating you’ve been purposefully playing Anti-Town?

[HezLucky]

I may have gotten carried away earlier today with the idea of HOLY CRAP NUKING SOMEONE in a game of mafia, and suggested I was going to act nuke-happy*, so yes

* although this is only anti-town if you don't catch scum. and I plan on nuking me a scumbag.

[AurorusVox]

Seriously? The mind boggles.

I've come close to revealing whether I was going for Nukes or PRs twice now >_> It's quite easy to let it slip whether you're nuking or not. A couple of other people have already done so. I figure if I keep making the point then people will stop doing it/I'll remember not to myself.

It is incredible how easy he is to read.

But your read is incredibly wrong

Hez, are you only voting for me because I think you're scum? Because I don't recall you mentioning me at all until I said you were scummy.

[Mina]

So LLD, I'd be interested in a reaction to my questions to you (re: your "grudgingly accepting my excuse") on Saturday.

Yeah, upon rereading LLD's ISO, I'm moving her from the town to the scum column.

Still on the fence re: Swift. His frustration sounds pretty townish at times. But Swift Justice's reaction to LLD reminds me of his reaction to Plum in MetaMafia. ("Yes, LLD is scum. Why? Because of her posts, lol.") Yes, you've made your point; you're Faraday, and you don't like explaining your reads. How

clever

. But clearly you aren't doing it to fish for reactions, since you didn't follow up on your LLD read (admittedly, I don't think Faraday has been reading the thread since coming to Canada).

Equinox, can you summarize/paraphrase your AIM conversation with Faraday in which he asked you to post here, and you attacked ToastyToast with incorrect information?

Mina, what is 421 supposed to be?

It's...probably the kind of thing that should have stayed in my mind and not made it to the post window.

In penance for indulging myself, I'm going to be good and not

make a snarky response to

answer Red's points on me unless he asks for a defence.

But if you're going to confidently state that "'this' is not town," then you should probably have a better justification than "You questioned someone with whom you have extensive meta experience on a premature town read--which is something you have seen him do multiple times as scum--and for giving an unsatisfactory explanation, knowing that said player believes you are susceptible to buddying (even though I am not, dammit!). But YOU HAVE TOWN READS. OMG I FOUND A CONTRADICTION AREN'T I AN AWESOME SCUMHUNTER."

Actually, SocioPath, while I'm at it, what exactly was the point of your post on Regfan? Quoting a list of reads and saying it's a scum claim sounds like he did something really, really bad. I want to know if it's something as lame as your catch on me, so I can ignore it, rather than having that small seed of doubt planted in me by hearing there's

something

scummy about it, but it's beneath you to admit what it is.

And Vi, can you please give one genuine emotional reaction to anything? It really is amazing. You keep being all protown and asking questions and giving reads...but you just look so damn insincere doing it. It throws me off.

@Mina:

How likely did you think it was that you could come up with a breaking plan for the powers? You had experience with DEFCON 2, but the tone I'm getting from your posts in #241 and #253 is that you put some significant time into it. True/false?

I replaced into DEFCON 2.0 on Day Three as Chinese scum, and then worked out almost immediately that the game was mathematically unwinnable for me. It was ridiculous. Scum need more mislynch options than there are players with nukes in the game--and the fact that the dayvigs are

public

means they can't just nuke anyone obvtown. Town auto-wins the moment they have one confirmed townie and more armed nukes than living players. This set-up has a few changes for the better, but I honestly think that Silos should have been limited to once per game rather than once per day.

I don't want to make it sound like I spent hours and hours of effort into a master plan, or calculated lots of of probabilities. On Thursday and Friday, I basically started typing up posts like, "Omigod! How about we elect one person to put Espionage as his top choice...no...three people...but the scum can kill him, so the Battleship can protect him...so two or three people need to put Battleship as their first choice...but wait, what if scum get Aircraft Carrier? Or Counterintelligence? Or what if both teams target the Espionage and nullify the Battleship? Or if the Battleship is scum and tries to pass it off as that? But anyway, the Espionage investigates the same player as non-European or non-terrorist, and then we nuke the Espionage to show that he's town...and everyone except for the confirmed player nukes each other in a circle...except the terrorist can just snag submarine and kill the confirmed townie....fuck."

In the end, I just gave up, because I figured just letting everyone draft whatever they want would probably result in a natural spread of roles like last game. But I think it's extremely likely that by Day Four or so, the game will be breakable.

[Mina]

It is incredible how easy he is to read.

But your read is incredibly wrong

That frownie face is actually making me feel guilty.

I feel like I actually have to waste time on a confirmation biasy case with quotes, and second-guess myself as to whether individual posts sound townish and I'm just imagining the whole "set-up speculation for the sake of talking, fake scumhunting, and useless questions" vibe, rather than coasting on how everyone thinks you're obvscum. Because otherwise, you'll be frowning at me.

No wonder I'm manipulated so easily.

[HezLucky]

Hez, are you only voting for me because I think you're scum? Because I don't recall you mentioning me at all until I said you were scummy.

You were baiting me in our previous interaction. That's not at all town-motivated.

[Magua]

You were baiting me in our previous interaction. That's not at all town-motivated.

Town never baits.

AIN'T THAT RIGHT, FATE? TROLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

Also, Mina's town. With Toasty. I'm content to circle-nuke and leave either of the two alive.

[Toogeloo]

Toogeloo, why didn't you wait until D3 to claim Counterintelligence? You might have been able to eat a NK before then. That said, Toog's claim looks townish, both because the execution is townish, and because it's too bold a move for scum after Katsuki's auto-nuke dictate--particularly since Eavesdrop could out them if it doesn't get results one night.

I considered holding the information, but reflected that CI may as well be a Miller equivalent claim in this game given the way Kat eschewed the role for town players. I knew I was going to put it in my top spot when the game began, because I prefer denial over giving myself a PR. I had a similar list in DC2. Claiming it earlier was to show I wasn't worried about claiming it, and to let the Scanners and Eavesdropper know that they can trust their results (so long as they can trust me).

If I'm NKed, then lol@scum for killing more or less a Vanilla role at this point, which still serves it's purpose of protecting American PRs.

[Magua]

Toog, Counterintelligence was your #1 choice, yes?

[AurorusVox]

It is incredible how easy he is to read.

But your read is incredibly wrong

That frownie face is actually making me feel guilty.

I feel like I actually have to waste time on a confirmation biasy case with quotes, and second-guess myself as to whether individual posts sound townish and I'm just imagining the whole "set-up speculation for the sake of talking, fake scumhunting, and useless questions" vibe, rather than coasting on how everyone thinks you're obvscum. Because otherwise, you'll be frowning at me.

No wonder I'm manipulated so easily.

I'm pretty sure scum could just shut up and fly under the radar if they wanted. There's no incentive to talk for the sake of it.
Why is your promised-but-failed attempt at setup breaking any better than my attempt at neutering the usefulness of Sub?

I questioned SJ because they were being (to use SDC's fave word) cheeky. All this "Oh I'm being sarcastic about you Mina" bullshit is cheeky because it's noise that doesn't stick to them. Their flipflopping between "Don't make my points look less than serious!" --> "It was a fucking joke" makes it impossible to pin them on anything they said about you there.

And questioning Hez? Those were not pointless questions.

They weren't baiting either. Hez: You did something scummy. I responded to it. You reacted scummily to that too, and what I did was show you that you were inconsistently applying this supposed "vengeance." Which I'm pretty sure you realised when you admitted you were being illogical. The way you acted and the way you professed to act were completely out of sync, and our back and forth illustrated that perfectly.

[AurorusVox]

Also I agree that Toog is very much Town from his choice + claim.

[Toogeloo]

Toog, Counterintelligence was your #1 choice, yes?

yes

[Mina]

Magua, not to start an incestuous buddying circle or anything, but to return the favour, if I had to choose a sole survivor at this point, you'd probably be it.

It is incredible how easy he is to read.

But your read is incredibly wrong

That frownie face is actually making me feel guilty.

I feel like I actually have to waste time on a confirmation biasy case with quotes, and second-guess myself as to whether individual posts sound townish and I'm just imagining the whole "set-up speculation for the sake of talking, fake scumhunting, and useless questions" vibe, rather than coasting on how everyone thinks you're obvscum. Because otherwise, you'll be frowning at me.

No wonder I'm manipulated so easily.

I'm pretty sure scum could just shut up and fly under the radar if they wanted. There's no incentive to talk for the sake of it.
Why is your promised-but-failed attempt at setup breaking any better than my attempt at neutering the usefulness of Sub?

I questioned SJ because they were being (to use SDC's fave word) cheeky. All this "Oh I'm being sarcastic about you Mina" bullshit is cheeky because it's noise that doesn't stick to them. Their flipflopping between "Don't make my points look less than serious!" --> "It was a fucking joke" makes it impossible to pin them on anything they said about you there.

And questioning Hez? Those were not pointless questions.

They weren't baiting either. Hez: You did something scummy. I responded to it. You reacted scummily to that too, and what I did was show you that you were inconsistently applying this supposed "vengeance." Which I'm pretty sure you realised when you admitted you were being illogical. The way you acted and the way you professed to act were completely out of sync, and our back and forth illustrated that perfectly.

[/quote]
Um...

Exactly whom are you defending yourself from? The town as a whole? I didn't even mention any of those points. For so early in the day, isn't this is a bit excessive?

Actually, now that you bring it up, I hated the sub thing, too. It's not an attempt at neuter the usefulness of Sub, because your plan was actually harmful to the town. (I mean...saying town shouldn't get the sub just so we know whether or not the submarine is definitely in scum hands? Having the sub and USING IT TO SHOOT OBVTOWN WHILE NOT CLAIMING IT is

more

of a scum claim.) It's almost so bad that it might be a towntell that you were

brave

enough to say it, but I hate how you backtracked the moment you got heat for it and said, "yeah, I wasn't expecting anyone to take me seriously, because it's just a pipe dream, so go for that submarine, town!"). But I didn't even

mention

it in that post. So why are you trying to tie it to me not breaking the set-up?

For the record, whatever you think of SJ, I can state with 100% certainty that he was not in the slightest attempting to be taken seriously with his "case" on me, if you know anything about Faraday's sense of humour. The "why aren't you taking me seriously" line was also dripping with scorn.

(The one scummy thing I find about that interaction was Equinox's rush to yell at Toasty at Faraday's request...but then proceeding to completely defend the wrong point and say that Faraday's gambit was totally sincere. Faraday's recruiting her is a slight town tell (although he could have just been annoyed independent of alignment), but then she was willing to stretch the truth and defend Faraday's motives when she apparently wasn't reading carefully enough to realize it was a joke? That's why I want her take on it.)

And no incentive for scum to talk? Are you kidding me? Try not posting anything all game and see how long you live in DEFCON 1. That's exactly what scum try to do all the time: look like they're helping the town just to get their approval. Fake contribution is the rare scumtell that actually

works

.

[SpyreX]

Hey, SpyreX? Gamma? Do you actually think Hez is scum, or are you just policy-wagoning him?

If I had a gun to my head, I'd say... no. He's cheeky. He's not rock solid scum by a margin.

However, in this setup? Hell no. He's not getting the CHANCE to be cheeky.

I've said this before though.
----

Toog's town up ins. Thats good.

We need to get to the mass purge - there's a decent chunk of elements I'd like to see live after the radioactive crater comes. Enough that unless we've got super awesome scumlands we've got this pig greased.