Newbie 1117(Town Wins)

[zMuffinMan]

hold on. I think Toast is scum. bv, srg, haze reading as town.

btw, RC is currently self-voting due to quote tag fail. lolol

I'll do a proper catch-up later.

The logic I'm agreeing with and referring to is in post 92.

What part/s of the logic in that post do you agree with?

[zMuffinMan]

Oh, and

Welcome to the game, once you've had time to catch up what are your current thoughts of the game? Do you agree with cases Bo seemed to like or do your opinions differ much from his?

I don't even read the posts of whoever I replace, unless someone quotes them.

Who did DBK suspect?

[ToastyToast]

Um, there's only like 6 posts. Surely it can't be that hard if you need to read the thread anyways?
He voted BBmolla but switched to SRG

[zMuffinMan]

No, it's a general policy of mine. I already know my alignment, and I already know what I personally think, so I don't need to read the posts of whoever I replace, unless they're under scrutiny for some reason. It's 6 less walls I have to read while catching up.

[Haze]

Wouldn't you read DBK's posts anyway to see how much he's said about himself already?

And also, Quackerz amazingly has only 1 post so far.

[SomeRandomGuy]

Really feel like i've abused this game in the past couple of days, i really need to have a good read through and look for new information - I've just had very little time and am in another mafia game on another site where it all got crazy and took up a fair amount of the free time i did have. I'll get that done either tonight, or tomorrow.

When i saw redcobalts misquoted post i thought 'heh, i bet it turns out that it counts as him voting himself' major lols.

Nice to see muffin come in quite energized - put a little life back in here - So, you mention toasty as scum, is that down to the lack of actual scum hunting, or just a general feeling? and what makes you feel bv is town? For me, i find him hard to read and am getting little from him.

[zMuffinMan]

I'm really, really lazy and it's 3am but I have an early start tomorrow so I'll do my proper catch up by around midday (hopefully).

Wouldn't you read DBK's posts anyway to see how much he's said about himself already?

No. If he had given away my role, there'd be discussion about it. If he had said anything that was cause for concern, someone would have quoted it. If no one has really been discussing DBK's posts, then there was nothing in there that I really needed to read and I'd rather save some time skipping it.

So, you mention toasty as scum, is that down to the lack of actual scum hunting, or just a general feeling?

Well, the lack of scum hunting is partially the reason for it - I loled when he said he was scum hunting by calling something town on town. Another reason is that I think his case on RC is pretty bad and it looks contrived. I'll go over it in detail when I do a full catch up post.

and what makes you feel bv is town?

Because he's seeing a lot of the things I'm seeing and coming to the same conclusions I am.

[ToastyToast]

If it was contrived, why would I post so many of his quotes and respond to them?
Can't really answer to anything now, so I'll wait.
I also love how you accuse me of being scum and yet have the same town-reads as I do (with exception of bv, whose null but still townish)

Because he's seeing a lot of the things I'm seeing and coming to the same conclusions I am.

Agreeing with someone is hardly a town-tell

[zMuffinMan]

If it was contrived, why would I post so many of his quotes and respond to them?

This is a no-brainer, really...

I also love how you accuse me of being scum and yet have the same town-reads as I do (with exception of bv, whose null but still townish)

Well, that would make sense if you're scum, because you know who is town. Is there meant to be something wrong with this?

Agreeing with someone is hardly a town-tell

It's not as simple as just "agreement".

He's noticing most of the same things I noticed on reading through, and interpreting them the same way I interpreted them. I was able to follow his thought process because it matched mine.

[Redcolbalt]

@mod: i wasnt voting for myself, it was part of the quote. i think you have me listed for me voting myself?

[bvoigt]

i did answer them ?
i said i wouldnt try to manipulate my own grandma into a plot to kill her.

Toasty, did you see this?

[ToastyToast]

Well , i only played one complete game, as town. So im gonna have to say town then.
And i would take the treats bc a long time ago if im lucky grandma would put
Some money in my bag , so my mom wouldnt take it xD

Found it. Apparently I skipped post #109-118 (which included his response).That definitely hurts my case, but I still don't like how he interpreted randomguy's answers to his own questions. The other points stand.

@Muffin:It doesn't make sense if you believe scum to lie about their buddy.
And I asked that "contrived" question because you have yet to explain

why

its contrived. Hence why I said I'm waiting for more.

i did answer them ?
i said i wouldnt try to manipulate my own grandma into a plot to kill her.
I do attack him , but also defend him. I try to look on both sides, before i cast a vote.
I didnt change my mind, its bb than random. He would be my "FoS"
Well, thats why we all have guts ? I feel that i am on a good hunch and shall push my case, untill i am proven wrong.

Attack+defend=wishy-washy=scummy
Unless you think BBmolla and RandomGuy are scum together, I have a hard time following your thought process in your suspicons.
Guts are not great when trying to tell town why someone is scum. Its very easy to say "gut" when you have no other suspects.

[drmyshottyizsik]

@mod: i wasnt voting for myself, it was part of the quote. i think you have me listed for me voting myself?

Please unvote then. I am not responsible for your failed quotes. This is your first and only warning. Use the PREVIEW option before every post. I will not fix any miss tags, even is it is on a hammer.

[zMuffinMan]

OK,

So, first things first, reasons why I think Toast is scum:


Up to page 4, all of Toasty's post are IIoA (information instead of analysis). There's really no scum hunting whatsoever, and he's just coasting along posting what is essentially fluff. IIoA isn't a bad thing in newbie games (it is a learning experience, after all), but in combination with the fact he's doing no scum hunting, it's a scummy way to coast through the game.

Page for we have #81, where he gives his first 'reads' of the game, indicating that he thinks srg vs BB is town vs town. In #86, bv points out that Toast hasn't actually been scum hunting at all, and instead of... actually doing any scum hunting... in #87 Toast suggests that he has actually been scum hunting because he called srg vs BB town on town... FYI, calling something town on town but not actually having any scum suspects does not count as scum hunting.

#92 is the first time he actually gives reads. I'm just going to analyse his case on RC here, because I think it's terrible.

He attacks somerandomguy for his answers to the questions, and yet doesn't answer them himself. In my opinion, if he is going to attack someone for revealing information, he should give his own answers first. He's using information from random questions that he himself is unwilling to answer. Also, where did srg say he would manipulate other players? Misrep?

Firstly, it's been established since I last came on that RC did indeed answer the RVS questions. Secondly, srg did indeed say he would manipulate other players in #27, so there is no 'misrep' by RC here.

Point 1 is bad.

So after you form suspicions on Random, you change your mind in the same post and vote for the person Random started a wagon on? Hmmm....

This isn't even a reason to suspect someone... It's not scummy. He's suspicious of srg for particular reasons, he's suspicious of BB for particular reason. Where is the scumminess here?

Then there are the reasons for voting BBmolla...
-Overconfidence isn't a scumtell.
-I've seen town plead not to be lynch before, but its usually more about RAGE. What's scummy about it is that BB was nowhere near getting hammered.

Are you suggesting RC is scummy because his reasons for thinking BB is scummy are weak? I personally didn't like RC's vote on BB either, but this didn't come off as scum-looking-for-something-to-call-scummy, I read it as him genuinely thinking BB is scummy.

-Unless this is gut, this doesn't even count. And gut isn't a very convincing argument anyways

I don't think he was trying to convince anyone with that line, and gut is a pretty valid reason for thinking someone is scum. It's not a valid reason if you can't explain why you have a gut feeling about someone, and it's probably not going to convince anyone else to vote with you, but that's beside the point.

So point 3 is about the only somewhat valid reason you have for thinking RC is scum, and it's not a good reason at that. Thus I think your case on him is contrived.

--

@Muffin:It doesn't make sense if you believe scum to lie about their buddy.

Yes, it actually does, if I believe you're more likely to put your buddy somewhere in a null->leaning scummy category. I recognised on reading through that srg, haze and bv are most likely town, therefore you-as-scum could also recognise how difficult it would be to mislynch them and probably don't even want to try. You might not actually be scum, but this is why I don't think it's strange for you to have the same town reads as me, even if you are scum.


--

Now that this is out of the way, I'll get to the rest of the people in this game later.

[bvoigt]

@Mod:

Could we please get prods on kad and Quackerz?

MuffinMan is looking town so far. He's seeing a lot of the same things I saw with Toasty's IIoA, and weak case on Redcolbalt.

[drmyshottyizsik]

@Mod:

Could we please get prods on kad and Quackerz?

MuffinMan is looking town so far. He's seeing a lot of the same things I saw with Toasty's IIoA, and weak case on Redcolbalt.

Already been done :p

[ToastyToast]

I'm sooo going to rage at you two the next time I post.
The game is 6 pages long. Sorry if I don't get reads in the first 4 pages of a game. It takes more than that for me to think things through. Hence why the beginning play is complete BS.

More later, not in the mood atm

[zMuffinMan]

No, it's not to do with the fact you didn't give reads in the first four pages. Hardly anyone did and any reads you develop during the first four pages of a game probably aren't going to be all that solid. It's the fact you weren't really scum hunting, and all the posts from you are IIoA, which is a good way for scum to look like they're posting content without actually posting good content.

[Haze]

@ Toasty: If you think the beginning is BS, then try be like SRG and ask questions, and read the responses of the different players.

@Muffin: So, why are you so keen on defending RC?

[Quote = "Muffin"]Are you suggesting RC is scummy because his reasons for thinking BB is scummy are weak? I personally didn't like RC's vote on BB either, but this didn't come off as scum-looking-for-something-to-call-scummy, I read it as him genuinely thinking BB is scummy.[/Quote]

I read this oppositely; genuinely thinking BB is scummy means that RC would probably have to think things through very carefully; anyone throwing about statements with poor logic is likely to come off as scum trying to confuse the town and fake scumhunting. I dunno, I just think that any arguments could probably be better thought out. And RC hasn't discussed too much, it feels like his participating just for the sake of looking like he's doing something.

[zMuffinMan]

Shooting down a bad case on someone isn't really defending them.

genuinely thinking BB is scummy means that RC would probably have to think things through very carefully

wut

How genuine something is has nothing to do with how well thought out it is. Bonus points if it looks genuine and I can follow/agree with the thought process, but that's not what I'm looking for when I assess how genuine I think something is.

[ToastyToast]

@ Toasty: If you think the beginning is BS, then try be like SRG and ask questions, and read the responses of the different players.

I will. but,

More later, not in the mood atm

its been a loooong day.

[bvoigt]

I'm sooo going to rage at you two the next time I post.
The game is 6 pages long. Sorry if I don't get reads in the first 4 pages of a game. It takes more than that for me to think things through. Hence why the beginning play is complete BS.

More later, not in the mood atm

But you weren't doing much to get any reads. For example, this post contains some good advice, but you didn't ask any questions to discern alignments.

[kad2361]

sorry, internet connection is iffy and school in the mornings, havent been on a lot.

Anyways, agreeing on TT but who knows if what Quackerz could be.
Maybe lurking as mafia...

[Redcolbalt]

UNVOTE

alright got that taken care of and fixed up.

[Redcolbalt]

Well , i only played one complete game, as town. So im gonna have to say town then.
And i would take the treats bc a long time ago if im lucky grandma would put
Some money in my bag , so my mom wouldnt take it xD

Found it. Apparently I skipped post #109-118 (which included his response).That definitely hurts my case, but I still don't like how he interpreted randomguy's answers to his own questions. The other points stand.

@Muffin:It doesn't make sense if you believe scum to lie about their buddy.
And I asked that "contrived" question because you have yet to explain

why

its contrived. Hence why I said I'm waiting for more.

i did answer them ?
i said i wouldnt try to manipulate my own grandma into a plot to kill her.
I do attack him , but also defend him. I try to look on both sides, before i cast a vote.
I didnt change my mind, its bb than random. He would be my "FoS"
Well, thats why we all have guts ? I feel that i am on a good hunch and shall push my case, untill i am proven wrong.

Attack+defend=wishy-washy=scummy
Unless you think BBmolla and RandomGuy are scum together, I have a hard time following your thought process in your suspicons.
Guts are not great when trying to tell town why someone is scum. Its very easy to say "gut" when you have no other suspects.

Well, i dont actually see where i get wishy- washy.
as of now , i guess i could group BB and Random as a scum together, however im still learning this scum hunting stuff.
i feel that they are both scum like. BB being more than Random.

i have been lacking , i must read through this thread more now that i have time.
I will polish and present my case tonight