DEFCON Mafia 3.0 - Over, American Victory!

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

WHAT INTELLIGENCE DIVISION!??!

SOUNDS LIKE PHONEY FRENCHY LIES TO ME!

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Oh... sorry Pooky. I am in the Intelligence Division. I tell you when to push the button, you just need the fine motor cortex to have that push ready when I say.

Or the Counter Intelligence division, as the case may be?

[SocioPath]

I imagine we won't see him again with anything remarkable for some time.

Probably.

[Gammagooey]

Oh hello there RedCoyote wagon. You're pretty cool. Not as cool as the wagon on permanently useless Hez-scum but I'd join you instead of AV if those were the only two choices.

Vi why is MoI scum cause I don't see it. Also Mina is town and I am PURECONFIDENCE about this so Mina is town, towntown, and furthermore towntowntown.

@Toog- I really don't see why You think Socio is a better lynch than IS or Pooky. Asplain please?

[SpyreX]

I thought you were going to ask me about the people I had scumreads on

Ohh lord have I done confused myself again??

Who do you have scum reads on?

I'll admit my anxiousness for things to happen is starting to make thinking harder and harder

[Toogeloo]

@Toog- I really don't see why You think Socio is a better lynch than IS or Pooky. Asplain please?

Socio stuck out to me more when I iso'd him, but from a useless (anti-town or scummy?) factor, they probably could all be interchangable.

If the Socio Wagon is pointless, no sense in pushing a lost cause though.

Unvote

[Gammagooey]

Hey toog while we're here and talking about useless people what are your thoughts on Hez?

[Magister Ludi]

(Vi and SpyreX, what does this acronym mean: TMI?)


I'm now completely behind this RedCoyote wagon (if that is any more possible after his god awful reasoning in DefCon4) Most of what has been said about his terrible idea of creating a counterwagon to someone he thinks is 'scum' for no apparent reason, and then backtracking, I agree with. It's just a terrible order of logic.

Red also said this lynches for today should be "AV, dana, ML, Pooky, or SDC today. In that order." Now, not only do I have town reads on the last two (three :p), but I'm not particularly militant to get on the wagon of the other two. This list of lynches is plain bad, and when someone has four or more reads I dont agree with, I consider them a strong case for scum.

[Gammagooey]

Preeeeetty sure it's Too Much Information.

[gorilla]

RC: You had Hez listed in your "best lynches" early on, today you've suddenly put dana vs. AV over him. What happened to make you think Hez was less likely to be scum and why didn't you mention that?

Toog: I sort of get where you're coming from on sociopath but at the same time I can see where he's trying to make some points in his posts, in his own cryptic, terse way. Thing is, even if he's scum lynching him pretty much tells us nothing - I'd have to agree with the sentiment that he's nuke-fodder.

[Magister Ludi]

Swift Justice still needs death. The wagon start on a player with no votes whilst avoiding the two larger (three at the post) wagons is definently not a town tell.

As for Hez, he probably needs to launch a nuke at another scummy player and then eat one himself. He suddenly comes alive while under some sembalance of pressure, changes his playstyle a bit for unknown benefits, and bad reads don't give me town feelings at all.

As for AV, I haven't seen a case on him that I've particularly liked, and as for his wagon, there is only one, maybe two... (Mina and SDC/Magua) people I consider town on it at this time. I think he is more town than not.

[Magister Ludi]

(Thanks Gamma)

From Magna of Illusion:

"I don't dispute that Socio is playing in a scummy manner. He goes out of his way to do that. The problem is going to be getting a viable wagon going. Because by my assessment we have a sizeable number of players in this game who will take the stance of "Nah, I'm not going to vote Sociopath because I like playing with him. Even if he is scum".

I think barking up that tree is not worth the effort. He best turned into a glowing, radioactive crater the minute we hit DEFCON1."

This is bad reasoning. If you think someone is playing in a scummy manner (as Socio is in fact doing), you don't pass it up or fail to call them out on it. You try and push the wagon. The fact that you also consider him acting in a scummy manner, but not worth lynching, but nukeable, is not a stance I understand or expect to come from a town point of view.

If Socio is your number one scum read, it makes no sense to try and let him go without pushing on him, as town wants all scum players dead, not down the track. This post just feels... off. Coming from a scum sided rather than town sided ideology. (if thats the correct word there)

[Magister Ludi]

Triple post, but I missed Gorilla. I hate his last post. 759 reads as reluctant buddy looking to push RC wagon, not to hard, but wants credit if/when it goes through.

(I guess an iso is in order to see what else he has done that backs this up.)

[RedCoyote]

RC: You had Hez listed in your "best lynches" early on, today you've suddenly put dana vs. AV over him. What happened to make you think Hez was less likely to be scum and why didn't you mention that?

I did, it was just in the middle of my wall.

Hey, SpyreX? Gamma? Do you actually think Hez is scum, or are you just policy-wagoning him?

This. This. This.

I was a bit too unclear in my condemnation of Hez. He needs to be dealt with via nukes. He should not be a lynch consideration. His lynch will do nothing but cause a pointless back and forth over policy that won't necessarily apply to the actual game.

[SocioPath]

Alright, I ISO'd myself (because I am the only player worth rereading), and looking over my opinions, I like this vote:

Unvote
Vote: Regfan

[gorilla]

RC: I see, but even in the middle of your wall your assesment of him changes from "paranoid scumbag" to being a policy lynch and it comes off inconsistent to me.

Triple post, but I missed Gorilla. I hate his last post. 759 reads as reluctant buddy looking to push RC wagon, not to hard, but wants credit if/when it goes through.

(I guess an iso is in order to see what else he has done that backs this up.)

forgive me should I want to actually question a player and find my own reasons for voting. I think you're reaching a bit here looking for connections already.

[Swift Justice]

i'm not reading the thread but she need to die.

This is funny. You ignore me until I call you out on your terribad reasoning for the town read you have on Mina.

and THEN you want me killed?

You do the same thing with Vi too.

Tell me, are you afraid that one of us is going to nuke your scummy ass when it reaches DEFCON 1? Is that why you're pushing lynches on everyone who speaks ill of you?

I think it is~

i'm looking forward to nuking you.

[Swift Justice]

Swift Justice still needs death. The wagon start on a player with no votes whilst avoiding the two larger (three at the post) wagons is definently not a town tell.

[Swift Justice]

So LLD, I'd be interested in a reaction to my questions to you (re: your "grudgingly accepting my excuse") on Saturday.

Yeah, upon rereading LLD's ISO, I'm moving her from the town to the scum column.

Still on the fence re: Swift. His frustration sounds pretty townish at times. But Swift Justice's reaction to LLD reminds me of his reaction to Plum in MetaMafia. ("Yes, LLD is scum. Why? Because of her posts, lol.") Yes, you've made your point; you're Faraday, and you don't like explaining your reads. How

clever

. But clearly you aren't doing it to fish for reactions, since you didn't follow up on your LLD read (admittedly, I don't think Faraday has been reading the thread since coming to Canada).

yeah...no wtf? explain how i'm supposed to 'follow up' when I was fucking posting up untill i was in the airport. i don't care anyway, fuck following up, i'll just kill her.

anyway mina's still town and my early reason is still the best reason for finding her town, mad haters gonna hate.

[Hinduragi]

ITT not mentioning all your scumreads in a post means you're scum.

Not really. I've noticed townies always display a huge amount of confirmation bias. They always have some scum in mind and keep looking at what those people do to see if they can anything scummy. (or reevaluate).

Also - Ludi had these two posts from your earlier one (#652,#657) so he's given you even lesser than IS. I would have at least understood Ludi was on the Hez wagon you're looking at but no .. So there's no way you're commenting on this candidate instead of IS …

That's an opinion. If you can back it up with townies always doing that in a large theme, be my guest.

Those two posts are why I decided to look into him. I ISO'd him after the pitter patter thing because it didn't fit right with me. It was like fluff to make his post look better. Look at ISO 18 and then those two posts.

Faraday's thinking on this was that early setup speculation from Mina was a weak town tell; furthermore, he doubted that Mina-scum would want to face the scrutiny of

having to come up with a pro-town-looking plan and then following through with it

.

...Since town hasn't been able to follow through with it, wouldn't scum be more likely to try it and pretend they followed through with it and failed?

This is bad reasoning. If you think someone is playing in a scummy manner (as Socio is in fact doing)

Socio will play to the SK wincon guaranteed even if he's town.

Except for the part about how SDC isn't Town at all.

I've tried to get this. I read the Russian QT and everything to see Fate's choices and what he was thinking. I can see what you mean about the Air Base gambit being null but what I don't see is SDC-scum.

[AurorusVox]

I don't vote until I'm completly caught up with the thread. You also realize the contradiction in this post, right? You're attacking me for not placing a vote while claiming me scum and witholding your vote.

This is a great point, AV.

This is a great point, AV.

GOOD ENOUGH FOR ME.

Vote: AV

it's not a contradiction. I'm voting Hez.

?

---

RC's attempt at starting a "helpful" counterwagon is awful, as has already been commented upon by...everyone.
His wall also strikes me as an attempt to show how much detail he's putting into his reads but he missed the post I made above which made Reg's point completely wrong. Clearly not making as much of an effort as he'd like us to believe, purposefully ignoring things that would stop him hopping on my wagon.

Also, where did he go from a long list of lynches to just me or Dana? :\
Also, he said Dana makes no mention of me, despite the post he's quoting being 25% about me.
Bad RC, bad.

Vote: RedCoyote

Socio also gains huge scumpoints for clearly not reading the thread for the same reasons as RC.

---

Hindu is probTown for doing a meta-mine search. He could have just tagged on a vote like everyone else.

---

Perhaps for scum it is. I have no interest in showing my hand at all. The only people I could imagine wanting to do so would be doing so because they want to draw attention away from them (scum).

So are all the people who have "slipped" that they've got nukes scum, then?

---

MoI:

"Why is he scummy?"
Because he's been trying to scare people off his lynch by raging at them.

This is a staple ‘go to’ move of some player in this game – “attacking the attacker” with zeal. It is an established part of both Town and Scum games for these players.

Are you suggesting it is always a scum-tell when you see this activity?

But that wasn't what he said. He said that he would rage at the people who wanted to PL him. He raged at me because I found him scummy. That can be the only reason since it was the first thing I'd said to him.

Yet he has "no read" on Magua. Inconsistency.

@Mina: in SAIII where I was town, I drew a lot of early heat on D1, from Scum SpyreX and SK-hopeful-MoI, in particular. You read me as town then. I'm seeing parallels to that game...but no Mina townread? This upsets me.

Hmmm … I don’t recall Town AV coming under ‘a lot of heat’ D1 and Stars Aligned 3. I remember you having a little tiff with Spyrex but my memory recalls Furc, Fate, Benmage and ReaperCharlie all getting substantially more pressure than you.

SpyreX tunnelled me a hell of a lot that game, and you tagged on, both of you ignoring most of the responses I brought up. I was also the leading wagon a couple of times (only with four votes but still...). SpX's tunnelling was the main thing that stuck with me that game, though.

I'll take the rope today if needed but first people need to look elsewhere because when I flip town you'll all realise that today has been a waste, since most of the people on my wagon have simply voted and haven't even explained it,

so it's not like I (or anyone else) can even do a proper wagon analysis to see who I (etc.) think is scum or town.

Yet in light of the bolded you were happy earlier to throw out who you thought was scum on your wagon. Inconsistent. Either you can't get a good idea and are just throwing darts or the above isn't valid. Pick your poision.

"proper" is the key term. It's difficult to really judge people "properly" wrt: the wagon, because everyone was doing the same (seemingly fashionable) reasonless-vote. Besides, most of my scumreads I put out came from reasons that had little to do with the wagon itself.

---

I'm liking ML and Hindu's recent posting.
Not sure what SJ hopes to get out of his banter with LLD. SJ is scummy, LLD is townish, and all the nuclear posturing is just making SJ look worse. I actually agree with LLD's sentiment that SJ is just trying to turn on whoever might nuke them down the line.

---

Toog: Opinions on the RC wagon?

[Swift Justice]

(Equinox)

Unvote

LIKE A TRUE AMERICAN, I DID NOT BOTHER READING THE THREAD. ALL I DID WAS POP IN THE MOVIE VERSION OF IT AND THEN CHECK THE SPOILERS ON WIKIPEDIA.

In other words, I've only read DEFCON 3. I'll read the pages of DEFCONs 1 and 2 later when I'm not so swamped or distracted or whatever the hell it is that I do that uses up so much damned time.

I'll be watching SDC/IS/Pooky closely for this reason.

Agreed. One of them is using meta to their advantage.

In two earlier paragraphs of this same post, you clear Screaming Death Clan based on Katsuki's logic and pseudo-clear Internet Stranger. You agree there's scum in this group of three. Why did you not touch on PookyTheMagicalBear?

I am going to be nuking (should I have a nuke) the player with the lowest post count as soon as we get to DEFCON 1. Don't be that player.

So before any actual voting / live Day scum-hunting goes on that might shape your theortical opinion on who is scum you’ve already decided who you would Nuke? And have phrased it is such a way that you aren’t even targeting a specific player but someone who meets and arbitrary guideline?

Gotcha. Scummy.

(The one scummy thing I find about that interaction was Equinox's rush to yell at Toasty at Faraday's request...but then proceeding to completely defend the wrong point and say that Faraday's gambit was totally sincere. Faraday's recruiting her is a slight town tell (although he could have just been annoyed independent of alignment), but then she was willing to stretch the truth and defend Faraday's motives when she apparently wasn't reading carefully enough to realize it was a joke? That's why I want her take on it.)

I didn't read the thread. Faraday recruiting me is not a tell either way; he had airport business to take care of at the time, and I just happened to be online discussing with him. As you can see in the paraphrased log, we didn't actually discuss what he did in the thread, as I was supposed to read that while catching up but failed to do so; I opted instead to post a half on the spot and then respond in more detail later once I understood what was going on, but I flunked at that, too.

So can you tell me without checking the activity counter who has been lurking through the previous couple of DEFCONs?

Easy. If I don't remember a name, that name needs nukin' and needs it soon. That should net more scum than simply checking the Activity Overview, as scum would be using the scenario you're describing -- that it's easier to attack the more visible players -- to fly under the radar.

I'll need to cross-reference AurorusVox's original proposal for the submarine and AlmasterGM's explanation of it to see if it's legitimately scummy. Knowing that scum have submarine but not knowing who has it seems pretty useless to me, and your plan, as Mina states, would have left it wide open for scum to freely take submarine. Also as Mina states, you bringing it up in the thread seems too brave.

...Since town hasn't been able to follow through with it, wouldn't scum be more likely to try it and pretend they followed through with it and failed?

Perhaps. I'll be following up with this when I read DEFCONs 1 and 2 since I noticed some things happened between those phases and DEFCON 3. As for Mina, I won't be following up with her specifically because I'm pretty sure she's town, and I'm not just parroting Faraday this time.

---

It's almost 3 AM here in America, so I'm

going to be lazy and not

just going to wall you lot to death.

Some of the votes on the RedCoyote wagon made me twitch, so I'll go have a gander at that later when I'm woken up and a bit more alert. Specifically, Lady Lambdadelta's made me twitch, but I have a feeling scum would be sheeping this wagon, whether it's to SHEEP or to bus or whatever, and everyone's reasoning is kind of uniform.

You guys probably want something more than "I'MMA NUKE LADY LAMBDADELTA" out of this slot, so here you go.

Town: Mina, Toogeloo, Katsuki, Regfan, ToastyToast, inHimshallibe, Magister Ludi
Maybe Town: AurorusVox, Internet Stranger
Maybe Scum: Vi, HezLucky
Scum: RedCoyote, SocioPath, danakillsu
In Limbo: Screaming Death Clan, PookyTheMagicalBear, MagnaofIllusion, ooba, SpyreX

If I've left you out, I have no idea who the heck you are, and I expect to acquaint myself when I read the first 20 pages or so of game. If, after that, I still don't know who you are, I'm nuking you, Faraday fervor be damned.

Faraday logged on earlier and I annoyed him about Lady Lambdadelta. He said he'd reread Lady Lambdadelta in isolation when he gets the chance, but he thinks she's scum because she's not displaying "passion" for this game or something. I don't know if I agree, mainly because I don't think Faraday has read the thread since his last airport post and he's implied as much; as for me, Lady Lambdadelta's in that category of players with whom I need to acquaint myself, so I'm passing judgment later.

I mentioned a couple of paragraphs up that the RedCoyote wagon makes me twitch. Oh, it does. However, I also agree that RedCoyote took a very strange stance with building up competing wagons on two of his scum reads when the only realistic information that would provide is who's holding the power role (providing both are scum). Unlike most everyone else, however, I don't find his "Well, it's entirely possible that I'm wrong" to be scummy, since I think like that as well and occasionally maneuver as town on that premise. Still, the competing wagon thing is weird...

SocioPath lacks punch from [REDACTED] which concerns me.

danakillsu sort of but not really defending RedCoyote without stating a solid stance either way makes me twitch.

The limbo group are either inscrutable people or people who have posted both scummy and townish things and thus warrant reread or further observation. Lots of "or"s in there. Anyway, I need to read Screaming Death Clan; I agreed with Katsuki about their Air Base gambit, but the fact that they apparently didn't get it means that town read is downgraded and I'd have to read them anyway. PookyTheMagicalBear and SpyreX are in the "inscrutable players" group due to the way they're speaking; I'm going to look up SpyreX metagame tomorrow and see how he matches up. ooba feels like town, but I need to look up why he took Air Base; someone mentioned that he did or something. MagnaofIllusion alternates between TWITCH TWITCH TWITCHY TWITCH (e.g., above shocked eagle photo) and TOWN, so he's in the observation tank.

HezLucky needs nuking, I think, but I'll need to reread him also, particularly his later posts when the momentum moves off him and onto RedCoyote. He is in this category for the quote toward the top of this post and his question toward MagnaofIllusion about MagnaofIllusion's read of Screaming Death Clan "if there was only one scum faction." That made me twitchy, yes.

Who's left? AurorusVox and Internet Stranger gave off town vibes. I'll need to read AurorusVox given above, but his later posts left me feeling town on him. Internet Stranger and PookyTheMagicalBear I'll need to read in conjunction given similar posting styles, but I was feeling town on Internet Stranger for some reason I didn't write down? Uck.

Oh, Vi. She isn't screaming "TOWN!" like she did in previous games I've played with her (town and scum), and she's making my gut twitch in that small way it did in a game about 9 or 10 months or so back where she was scum, so I'll compare her play here to that and see what's going on here.

That's a lot of people I need to reread. The list isn't entirely useless, I hope.

I am not voting until I know where I stand with more certainty. Faraday, we are NOT voting Lady Lambdadelta. If you happen to skip this wall and you try to vote Lady Lambdadelta again, I'll fucking keep unvoting.

I need sleep.

[inHimshallibe]

vote lld

MORE VOTES AND WE KILL HER.

I have to say, this doesn't particularly inspire a lot of faith, if any.

[inHimshallibe]

Well, then Equinox comes and posts up ins. Re: RC saying he could be wrong - definitely agree that is not the scum part of this equation. It is that he claims that while not providing a reasonable justification for bumping AV down/moving dana up than "Competing wagons are good."

[Internet Stranger]

RC is someone that I have named as suspicious. Although Vi isn't beyond reproach, I will probably have to dispatch that Euro scumbag via a good ol' fashioned American nuking than though a consentual lynching.

unvote; Vi
Vote: Red Coyote