Mini Normal 1187: Game Over

[ace5993]

Unvote, vote: DeuxiemeOctopus

. Content later when I have time.

[archaebob]

@ Scumhunter -

Which one of these statements do you not understand/agree with:

Town needs to maximize the information it has in order to win.
Generally, we should avoid lynching before it gets close to deadline, so that we make the most of our time.
Lurkers are bad for the town because we know very little about them.
You don't know how Deuxieme Octopus would look to you if he was posting more. Two posts are not enough to formulate a strong town read.
Town will be better off if all of the lurkers are forced to post.
It is possible to pressure the lurker and still have time to lynch scum if you act quickly without wasting time on arguing and stubbornness.

I never said an ace lynch can't happen, I said that it

shouldn't

happen until town has all the information it can possibly squeeze out of this day. I think we should be squeezing more information from Deuxieme Octopus, and I can't imagine that you are confident enough in your town read on him to let this day end without hearing more.

@ Pine - I've seen you online several times. You need to post. There is an enormous amount to comment on, and you clearly are not V/LA.

While you are at it, name one thing you have done to help town, and your top scum suspect.

[Barry Allen]

@ Barry Allen -

Good man. Do you have a town meta on this site? If so, please link it here, I'd like to look at it.

This is only my third round on the site - I played a newbie round as town and a later mini-normal as SK. Here's a link to the newbie round (if you want the rest just let me know). Newbie Round 1048

If you want a more in-depth look at my play, you can check out my wiki (link is in my sig) or go directly to my home mafia site, vendetta-strada.com. That site represents a merger of three other mafia sites, and it's a good place to play if you want a little faster pace that isn't lightning-speed EM (shameless plug XD).

[archaebob]

@ hiplop -

What do you think of all this?

If you had to pick one player to lynch right now, who would it be?

[hiplop]

gah i just got back from V/LA. Need to catch up on a BUNCH of games, ill re-read now

[Barry Allen]

Glad to see you're back, hiplop. As you read the thread I think you'll find several things that need a reply. I'll wait until you do to say anything further regarding you.

[pappums rat]

Alright guys ninja'ing in another VC, let me know if anything is wrong.

Vote Count 1.6

Deuxieme Octopus- 3 (archaebob, Barry Allen, ace5993)
archaebob- 2 (Pine, Heliman)
jilynne1991 - 1 (DemonHybrid)
Heliman - 1 (Spadille)
Giitah - 1 (hiplop)
Pine - 1 (Deuxieme Octopus)
ace5993 - 1 (Scumhunter)
Scumhunter - 1 (Giitah)

Not voting - nintendoaddict1, jilynne1991

With 13 alive it takes 7 votes to lynch.

The deadline for Day 1 is 12 A.M. on June 26, 2011.


Spadille is on V/LA until Saturday.
Heliman is on V/LA until Wednesday.
jilynne1991 is on V/LA until Monday.

Deuxieme Octopus is being prodded.

Invoking Rule 14, I am adding the following sentence to Rule 11:
"If a person has been prodded twice and fails to post for 48 hours, instead of recieving another prod they will be replaced out."

[hiplop]

Do you have anything else to say in your own defense on my case against you? If you haven't noticed, I posted again on the topic at posts #218 and #219.

Honestly, can we get over this?

1. After a couple of RVS votes, hiplop flipped to a vote on Bob for "taking everything too seriously" (which sounded to me as his first pressure vote...though later in response to DH, hiplop claims this was a joke-vote).
2. Afterward, hiplop switched to a vote on DemonHybrid, later claiming he was "the only one voting DH, I'm thinking for myself." (That was not true - hiplop was actually the third vote on DH, with all three votes still active at the time).
3. Later, he returns to vote Bob, without explaining the vote at the time (although there had been some back and forth with bob prior to the revote).
4. Later, hiplop states about bob, "unfortunately you're town" and votes giitah with the only case being "somethings not sitting right with you"

1. Yea, it was a joke vote. I guess there was some merit to it, but for the most part it wasnt serious at all
2. Only one voting him for a serious reason, others were RVS iirc (not 100% sure on this)
3. The back and forth was the explanation, really. You're grasping too hard for little details.
4. I don't like being wrong, i was pursuing Bob up to that point, and i realized i was wrong. Giitah is definitely still on my scum-list. Shes active-lurking/trying to appear useful, without actually doing anything.

As for your stand on hiplop, I disagree. I find hiplop's posting style somewhat suspicious, much in the way you suspect Jil of pretending to be 13. Please go back and look at how hiplop's typos and grammar seemed to get much better when getting defensive/angry, then later went back to the looser grammar and spelling of earlier posts. Again that's a bit meta, but I'm still waiting for hiplop to respond to my (and other's) earlier posts before making a judgment call there.

@grammar thing; that is lame logic. Idk if you're in my timezone, but those posts were made at like 12/1/2 am. I was very tired, plus i'm a busy person + lots of games, so i kind of have to either type perfectly, or catc h scum. And i'd rather do the latter Whats suspicious about my play,

exactly?

i know i defended Jillyiane kind of, but its because i didnt think she could defend herself. It was a bad move on my part, admittedly.

What do you think of all this?

I know this will sound stupid, unfortunately. I hate suspecting the people who are on my tail, but at the moment, itd be barry allen. Hes clinging way too hard to my wagon. The same could be said about demon hunter (not on me, though). Bob you worded it perfectly a few pages back, they've found some small details that they can keep mentioning and hope for a policy lynch. Its between DK and Barry. I definitely take back any suspicions i might have had on bob, dudes a machine.


@Everyone/specifically barry - I consider meta to be other-game stuff/ personality traits, not age. I guess my definition could be wrong to others but thats what i think of, and i think its kind of silly way to scumhunt.

sorry if i missed any questions, have a lot of catching up to do

[hiplop]

oh nintendo might be scum, hes definitely been rolefishing. The thing im scared of, is a lurker-scum-team in this game. Wich i think is entirely a possibility, thought bob seems to be able to realize this kind of stuff

[pappums rat]

Deuxieme Octopus has requested replacement, so I will begin the search for one.

[Barry Allen]

Honestly, can we get over this?

I'd like to....but let's look at your responses first...

1. Yea, it was a joke vote. I guess there was some merit to it, but for the most part it wasnt serious at all.

Barry's note: The original vote looked serious at the time, and you went back to that same vote later, so I don't get the "not serious" part of this, other than it looks like flip-flopping.

2. Only one voting him for a serious reason, others were RVS iirc (not 100% sure on this)

Barry's note: That was not your statement at the time...you stated you were the

only

player voting DH, not the only

serious

vote on DH.

3. The back and forth was the explanation, really. You're grasping too hard for little details.

Barry's note - you agree that there was back and forth, and that's what caught my attention.

4. I don't like being wrong, i was pursuing Bob up to that point, and i realized i was wrong. Giitah is definitely still on my scum-list. Shes active-lurking/trying to appear useful, without actually doing anything.

Barry's note: You are now explaining your vote. What had my attention was that you did not explain your note at the time.

@grammar thing; that is lame logic. Idk if you're in my timezone, but those posts were made at like 12/1/2 am. I was very tired, plus i'm a busy person + lots of games, so i kind of have to either type perfectly, or catc h scum. And i'd rather do the latter Whats suspicious about my play,

exactly?

i know i defended Jillyiane kind of, but its because i didnt think she could defend herself. It was a bad move on my part, admittedly.

Barry's Note: I didn't say it was "proof" but I did think it was interesting. I also note your typing and grammar are much improved in this post...which is again when you are defending yourself. Of course it isn't proof - you could just be paying better attention when on the defensive...but it is odd that your posting "voice" changes back and forth in the thread.

What do you think of all this?

I know this will sound stupid, unfortunately. I hate suspecting the people who are on my tail, but at the moment, itd be barry allen. Hes clinging way too hard to my wagon. The same could be said about demon hunter (not on me, though). Bob you worded it perfectly a few pages back, they've found some small details that they can keep mentioning and hope for a policy lynch. Its between DK and Barry. I definitely take back any suspicions i might have had on bob, dudes a machine.

Barry's Note: OMGUS, and just to note here, hiplop, I haven't voted you yet. Further, I have been withholding judgment on you and chose not to vote you specifically to give you time to return to the thread and defend yourself. I don't call that "clinging to your wagon."

@Everyone/specifically barry - I consider meta to be other-game stuff/ personality traits, not age. I guess my definition could be wrong to others but thats what i think of, and i think its kind of silly way to scumhunt.

sorry if i missed any questions, have a lot of catching up to do

Since our 8-legged player is replacing out, I have my vote freed up.

UNVOTE

Frankly, I'm not satisfied with hiplop's response so far, nor am I very happy with the continued back and forth on both content and posting style. The OMGUS is just another over-reaction.

@ hiplop - you may be simply over-reacting to my posts while trying to quickly catch up on thread. I'd like to hear more from you before actually moving to a vote. What do you have to say once you have fully caught up with the thread from V/LA?

[Pine]

I

am

V/LA. Having a smartphone is conducive to checking up on things, but not to producing long posts or digging through archives (which is necessary for serious scumhunting.)

Your persistence against me while I'm on vacation speaks volumes about your ulterior motives.

My vote is on my chief suspect. It is 100% serious and going nowhere.

[Giitah]

Raaage. >___< Just deleted a post worth of information.

@Hiplop
I'll post what I have to say on the topic of you at a later time, when Barry finishes questioning you.

@DH, Scumhunter
I'm in agreement with Bob's method of playing; while I wouldn't be able to push so strongly with it myself, he's good the right mindset on how to gain information on lurkers at this point. I'll also say that regardless of whether or not his line of reasoning is right at this point I'll still help him scumhunt his targets.

This is NOT to say I will vote with him when we vote to kill.

@Archaebob
There's no use further arguing on the topic of your gameplay so much, I think if they disagree with you at this point it's a lost cause unless you want to spend a day arguing about it.

@Scumhunter
Would you like my reads, then? You said you don't know who I want to vote for or who I think is suspicious - you're right, that's because I haven't really said anything yet, admittedly. I've been keeping my thoughts to myself mostly aside from questioning others and trying to gain more information myself.

@Pine
Whatever you say, you're still not looking any more pro-town. Accept that we're suspicious of you and that you'll have to explain yourself when you come back and let it be and have fun on vacation. ^^
Also, OMGUS suspicions don't help you either. You are NOT looking anymore protown so why should we stop thinking you're scummy? Relax and chill and then come back and help us out.

[hiplop]

at the time of the vote, it wasnt serious. I got an iffy feeling, but not enough to merit a vote. IDC how you interpretted it.

People make mistakes, sorry. I usually dont count obvious-joke-votes. I probably should have said the only one pursuing dk.

Again, look at the post times. Here it is 5:50 and i just got off v/la. Im fresh etc. How does my voice change?

How is that OMGUS? I genuinely have a suspicion on you, if you were doing the same thing to Giitah, id be suspecting you. It just so happens that yure on my tail. Sorry, thought you were voting me, was a qucik check up and i kind of just assumed you voted me, nonetheless, you still are claiming the same things over-and-over. Thats clinging to a wagon

[ace5993]

Alright,

Unvote

. The case on Giitah was not nearly as strong as I thought it was, after like 2 hours of ISO'ing and looking at his posts in context he's become more and more town in my eyes. HOWEVER, while looking around his early posts another player has become more and more scum:

VOTE: Giitah

Way overreacting to someone skimming RVS and misunderstanding.

Oh hey! I'm already out of RVS. Thank god.

Don't understand this post at all.

Okay, I'll do that right away.

Vote: archaebob

Good boy.

VOTE: Giitah

Way overreacting to someone skimming RVS and misunderstanding.

Oh hey! I'm already out of RVS. Thank god.

Can you explain what you mean by your reason for this vote?

And I see you online posting in other games. Have we done something to deserve neglect?

The games that are nearer to deadline get priority when posting from my phone. Plus, this one is thus far boring.

My vote is quite adequately explained.

Jumping on typoes and misunderstandings is very scummy in my book.

Jily is an acceptable lynch on policy grounds if we move into a stalemate, but I find nothing she's done yet to be damning, just the mark of immaturity.

1.

I fail to see where this happened.

2. Already talking about a potential policy lynch? What? The last paragraph reads like everyone thinks we want to lynch Jil for some reason.

@pine: the wagon on jilynne is a pressure wagon not a lynch wagon.

I don't see how the above statement conflicts with my comment.

I post in bold from my phone all the time.

Why wouldn't you vote for Jil then? Oh that's right, you're voting Giitah based on reasons that don't actually make sense.

@archaebob: The only third party roles permitted in Normal games are Serial Killers. So no, you don't smell survivor or cultist.

FoS: archaebob

For the above. I'm not sure whether it's rolefishing, scum hunting the SK, or what. But it doesn't sit right with me.

Preview Edit: Okay, I have egg on my face. I went back to find the quote that caused me to vote for Giitah...and I fucked up with my vote. The person I meant to be voting for had overreacted AT GIITAH, not Giitah overreacting to someone else. Apparently, I fail.

This is the quote, and combined with my above suspicion, warrants a changing of my vote to where it was meant to be.

@ nintendoaddict -

What do you think the purpose of RVS is?

Reactions.

Exactly. Do you think you are likely to get a reaction from anyone if you tell the whole world that your vote is random?

The town starts off the game with

nothing

, and the rvs is designed to be a first step towards content generation. Believe it or not, even rvs votes contain tiny little pieces of alignment revealing content in them. It's not much, and it usually becomes unimportant later in the game, but it is

how the town starts figuring out who is who

.

By using a randomizer, you are preventing

any

content from seeping into your vote, and guaranteeing that your target will shrug you off without even one awkward incriminating sentence of defense.

Ok?

unvote vote Giitah

why the

FUCK

did you vote me!?!?!?!??!?!?!??!?!?!??!?!?!?!??!??!??!?!?!?

You obviously are buddies with nintendoaddict.

UNVOTE: Giitah
VOTE: archaebob

Thanks for making me dig that up, archaebob!

Giitah gets a token few Townpoints for calmly and rationally responding to my unwarranted accusation.

Oh so the vote on Giitah was a mistake. However the reason for voting Giitah in the first place - "Way overreacting to someone skimming RVS and misunderstanding", still doesn't make sense when applied to bob. I do think the vote on Giitah was an honest mistake - but it was a lazy scum mistake. He saw Bob's "reason" for voting Giitah, and thought at a glance it was a serious overreaction. I'm kind of floundering to make sense of the "misunderstanding" - it either didn't exist, or it was this post:

Ai ai, captain.

Unvote: nintendoaddict1

Vote: archaebob

Which means the misunderstanding was that supposedly Giitah thought bob wanted a wagon... on himself?

The other reason for the case - "Jumping on typoes and misunderstandings is very scummy in my book", also doesn't make sense when applied to either bob or Giitah in either context.

Ai ai, captain.

Unvote: nintendoaddict1

Vote: archaebob

I take it you disagree? Oh are you just defending your buddy?

This post "which came BEFORE bob's vote on Giitah", completely negates any possibility that bob was overreacting.

It's somewhat obvious Pine DID NOT read the thread properly before he started his case on bob, as all three reasons he gave were simply not true. The fact that he first messed up the names on the posts only further reinforces this. This is lazy scum trying to look town by posting some sort of a case. Moving on:

@archaebob: The only third party roles permitted in Normal games are Serial Killers. So no, you don't smell survivor or cultist.

FoS: archaebob

For the above. I'm not sure whether it's rolefishing, scum hunting the SK, or what. But it doesn't sit right with me.

Once again, lazy scum. Found someone mentioning roles and decided to base a case around it because rolefishing's possible the easiest thing to base a case around. AGAIN messed up the names, which isn't a scumtell in itself, but it does further the impression that Pine isn't really reading the thread at all.

Giitah gets a token few Townpoints for calmly and rationally responding to my unwarranted accusation.

Translation: "Let's make sure Giitah thinks I'm town." Also note that it's possible that Pine's case was originally meant to be on Giitah since it doesn't make a shred of sense either way, and he just changed it to bob because bob pointed out that the original case didn't make sense. I don't think this is true but it's an outside chance.

Holy crap, I really am just batting 1000 in this game.

FOS: Heliman

for what I said in 127. Vote stays on archaebob for now.

Not reading the thread properly.

@ Pine -

Do I get token town points for calmly responding to your unwarranted accusation?

No. And you get a few taken away for requesting them. Yes, I'm serious.

Not really sure how you thought bob was serious here but even so, this is the only post with any content at all that slightly leans scum. Everything else screams scum as loudly as it can.

Generally, the only people that start the game looking for third party roles are scum themselves.

Expanding on lazy case #2.

Care to explain, Ace? I haven't done any rolefishing at all.

Not reading.

Yeah, hunting SK on D1 has gotten me lynched as scum before

I imagine you were actively hunting for the serial killer though, not merely mentioning the chance of third-party roles in passing. Also I'll mention here that it didn't feel at all like Heliman was searching for a third party role at all, he was just pointing out that hiplop was playing very oddly.

I'll try to get a more thorough read later (I've only skimmed) but my suspicion of archaebob has not abated one iota. I don't see the "Townie reaction" to the wagon on him that others unvoted for, and attacking the remaining members of his wagon, especially someone on V/LA, doesn't help.

v Sig v

Except you never stated anything about being on that wagon for the reasons made in my post, you were on the wagon from the non-sensical case you made in RVS.

How about actually interacting with my continued accusations against you instead of just ignoring them? I find it hard to believe that in building your case against me, you did no re-reading, and my sig is plain as day there.

There are no continued accusations, there's three reasons you posted while we were barely out of RVS. None of them make sense. HOWEVER, it makes me wonder if the rolefishing case you posted on bob was only posted because you thought it

was

bob. I wouldn't be shocked after reading your other posts that it had slipped your mind that that point was really made on Heliman.

What's your case on me again, bob? Lurking (while on V/LA) and voting for you?

Lol, way to post content with a wagon on you (/sarcasm). If you can post two sentences you can post two more sentences and give an actual opinion on anything that's happened in the last 5 pages.

Your persistence against me while I'm on vacation speaks volumes about your ulterior motives.

He's hardly being persistent against you, he unvoted you when he learned you were V/LA and this is basically the only thing he's asked you since then:

While you are at it, name one thing you have done to help town, and your top scum suspect.

HOLY SHIT that's persistent. If you say you have limited access and are actually posting it's not unreasonable to ask questions that require one sentence answers.

My vote is on my chief suspect. It is 100% serious and going nowhere.

I don't think it's a coincidence you couldn't answer his first question.

I will be nice and not vote Pine until he is back from V/LA but I figured I would type this all out and get it out in the open so we can at least have some discussion on it.

In the meantime I will

Vote: DemonHybrid

for wanting to lynch Jil before hearing anything from the people who haven't posted yet, I may attempt to do a ISO/semi-PbP on him later but for now it's just a larger gut read on him than I have on anyone else. And hey, who knows what will come out of it, I'm happy with what came out of investigating Giitah >_>

[Barry Allen]

Again, look at the post times. Here it is 5:50 and i just got off v/la. Im fresh etc. How does my voice change?

How is that OMGUS? I genuinely have a suspicion on you, if you were doing the same thing to Giitah, id be suspecting you. It just so happens that yure on my tail. Sorry, thought you were voting me, was a qucik check up and i kind of just assumed you voted me, nonetheless, you still are claiming the same things over-and-over. Thats clinging to a wagon

1. No need to be defensive - I've posted already that typos/grammar are not proof of affiliation, just an interesting observation. The only value it has is in looking at changes in how you post depending on whether you are defending yourself. The changes seem to be more related to how defensive you are rather than to time of day...but again this isn't evidence in and of itself.

2. "How is that OMGUS?" Simple...you said it yourself. You thought I was voting you when you quickly checked the thread. I'm not claiming things "over and over" but rather posted my thoughts while also posting that I wanted to give you the opportunity to return to thread and explain yourself.

I don't know if you're scum or not...but I'm not impressed with your defense so far. I was (and still am) hoping you can give us more insight to your thoughts when you've had the chance to look further into the thread.

[hiplop]

OMGUS =/= mistake in thinking someones voting you? I think you're scum, at this point. Its not OMGUS, its just coincidental that you're going for me.

atm im fine with lynching;
Barry
DK
Grallie

Whats the vote count atm?

[hiplop]

nvm thought DK had more votes on him

VOTE: DK

[ace5993]

Do you mean DH? And who is Grallie? >_>

[hiplop]

Yeah whoops! thought his name was demon killer. And i meant griitah

[Giitah]

Explain your reasoning and how killing any of us would be helpful for the town or be any different from killing you.

[Barry Allen]

OK, let's go through this latest group of posts...

OMGUS =/= mistake in thinking someones voting you? I think you're scum, at this point. Its not OMGUS, its just coincidental that you're going for me.

atm im fine with lynching;
Barry
DK
Grallie

Whats the vote count atm?

You wanted to go after me because you

thought

I was voting for you. It wasn't the mistake that was OMGUS, it was going after me because you thought I was voting for you. That's classic OMGUS.

nvm thought DK had more votes on him

VOTE: DK

This looks very LOL, very strange after making such a serious defense and going after me in a very serious tone. You are once again changing voices in thread as well as content.

Yeah whoops! thought his name was demon killer. And i meant griitah

More LOL again...only I'm not laughing.


hiplop posts with typos and grammatical errors until he is FoS'd, then turns to excellent typing and grammar along with a much more serious tone. Then, he goes back to LOL until the heat turns up again...and after getting serious with good typing and grammar goes back to LOL.

I don't buy that you can't even get the names of the players right, and I don't buy the flip-flopping in both content and posting style...I think it's time to...

VOTE: hiplop

[nintendoaddict1]

oh nintendo might be scum, hes definitely been rolefishing. The thing im scared of, is a lurker-scum-team in this game. Wich i think is entirely a possibility, thought bob seems to be able to realize this kind of stuff

Where was I rolefishing?

Anyways, what do you think of ace and Barry?

I'll get that up possibly later if not tomorrow afternoon or evening.

[pappums rat]

Spadille has requested replacement, so I am now searching for a replacement for him as well.

[hiplop]

OK, let's go through this latest group of posts...

OMGUS =/= mistake in thinking someones voting you? I think you're scum, at this point. Its not OMGUS, its just coincidental that you're going for me.

atm im fine with lynching;
Barry
DK
Grallie

Whats the vote count atm?

You wanted to go after me because you

thought

I was voting for you. It wasn't the mistake that was OMGUS, it was going after me because you thought I was voting for you. That's classic OMGUS.

nvm thought DK had more votes on him

VOTE: DK

This looks very LOL, very strange after making such a serious defense and going after me in a very serious tone. You are once again changing voices in thread as well as content.

Yeah whoops! thought his name was demon killer. And i meant griitah

More LOL again...only I'm not laughing.


hiplop posts with typos and grammatical errors until he is FoS'd, then turns to excellent typing and grammar along with a much more serious tone. Then, he goes back to LOL until the heat turns up again...and after getting serious with good typing and grammar goes back to LOL.

I don't buy that you can't even get the names of the players right, and I don't buy the flip-flopping in both content and posting style...I think it's time to...

VOTE: hiplop

Did you even read my post?