Mini Normal 1187: Game Over

[nintendoaddict1]

Anyways, what do you think of ace and Barry?

I'll get that up possibly later if not tomorrow afternoon or evening.

Okay, besides the fact that ace suddenly changed his posting style, going from one line posts to walls, there is something I need an answer on.

@ace:

In your post #11 you said 'content later when I have time' after you voted Deux. Did you mean content on your vote? Or content in general?

And like I said, your shift in content I find a bit unnerving.

Now,

@Barry

Post #4 you said you wanted to hear from jil because she was at L-2. I know this has been said before, but drawing attention to her absence seems almost opportunistic.

I don't think either of them are scum, though, but you can't be really sure on D1.

[pappums rat]

foilist13 replaces Deuxieme Octopus effective immediately.

[ace5993]

9. ace5993: Lean Scum. I don't really understand your fos/unfos of Barry. I don't see anything in Barry's play to warrant such a change in opinion. Your fos on bob screams to me that you are scum scared of his influence this game. You said at the beginning of the day "We don't need a wagon every single time someone does something even the slightest bit scummy.
" and now you just said "We wasted 10 pages on Jil, hopefully that won't happen with these wagons but having the wagons IS NECESSARY." Such a contrast in your opinions on the need for wagons/pressuring people makes me go O.o. It would help me if you explained exactly which "quirks" in Barry's playing style changed your opinion on him.

First of all they were votes, not FoS's >_> There's a difference between wagoning active players who do something slightly scummy and wagoning players who aren't posting. If someone does something I consider a minor scumtell I don't feel the need to create a wagon on them, I simply bring up the post I had issue with and go from there. However I like wagons based on lurking/active lurking because then we force the (active) lurkers to post content. I did support the Jil wagon initially, based on the fact that she needed to get out of RVS since she hadn't posted content, I just don't like that we wasted 10 pages on it when all we really needed was to get her posting content. After about 3 pages or so it should have been obvious that any more pressuring was going to be fruitless.

As for BarryAllen it's... difficult to put into words. Firstly his apparent misunderstanding/complete denial of the points I made on him looked more like obstinate town than scum. Then his later posts indicate that semi-tunneling is just a quirk of his playstyle. From the point of view of being really, really set on Jil for the moment he's more likely to make a comment like this (after such a short period of time):

In the meantime, I really want to hear from jilynne...maybe it's a time zone issue but we are at L-2 and don't seem to see a defense.

Okay, besides the fact that ace suddenly changed his posting style, going from one line posts to walls, there is something I need an answer on.

@ace:

In your post #11 you said 'content later when I have time' after you voted Deux. Did you mean content on your vote? Or content in general?

And like I said, your shift in content I find a bit unnerving.

Yeah I meant content in general. I figured it was obvious I was just on that wagon for the point of getting him to post.

I post however much I deem necessary on a post-to-post basis, whether it be walls, medium length posts, or short observation/question posts. I don't really see where the drastic change in content level came in, unless you are talking about the jump after the first few posts where it was RVS/just past RVS and there was not much to talk about.

[Barry Allen]

Did you even read my post?

Yes, hiplop, I read all your posts. I find them not to be consistent in either content or posting style. The post I'm quoting from you is like a lot of your early posts, where you quote a longer post from someone else (in this case me) and make a very quick comment...making it look like you are contributing much more than you actually are. Your later posts swing back and forth in both content and style, depending on how much heat you are getting at the moment. Until I see something better from you I'll keep my vote where it is.

There is one other question that I did answer earlier...but that question seems to have come up again so I'd like to answer it again after quoting the most recent note on the subject:

Now,

@Barry

Post #4 you said you wanted to hear from jil because she was at L-2. I know this has been said before, but drawing attention to her absence seems almost opportunistic.

I don't think either of them are scum, though, but you can't be really sure on D1.

At the time of the post referenced above, Jil had actually been on thread multiple times without giving a defense, even though the votes were piling up. She had only been at L-2 for a few hours (hence my time zone reference), but this had been going on for much longer with her active posting...but no defense. That's what I was calling out...not her absence from the thread, but her absence of a defense.

[archaebob]

There's another game right now which is frustrating the fuck out of me and taking up all my time, so I may be absent from this thread for a day or two.

In any case, the rest of the lurkers are being replaced, which means it's time to lynch scum.

unvote

Everyone should go ahead vote for their top lynch candidate of the day now. Also, make a mini-case. By mini-case I mean you pick your three strongest points and pick a few key quotes and you make your position

extremely

clear. I don't care how you do it or if you want to make your case longer than that, but at this point everyone should be staking out their positions in fairly unambiguous terms.

I don't usually post town lists, but I'm going to go ahead and do one right now:

ace5993 - Town.

BarryAllen - Very difficult to read. A lot of nervous energy and a very deliberate passive/logical tone. Scum LOVE playing like that. However, it does match his town meta...he's always writing with these dot dot dots...makes him seem really unsure about everything...easy style to keep consistent regardless of alignment. He's reasonably intelligent and a fairly coherent poster, which makes me unhappy with his tunneling of hiplop. I need to look a lot more closely at this, because it's weird.

DemonHybrid - Scum.

Spoiler: he's going to die today.

Giitah - Probably town.

Heliman - Scum.

hiplop - Town.

nintendoaddict1 - Probably town, but could be doing a lot more to make me confident in that read.

Pine - Horrible, horrible play. I'd normally say he's a VI, but he doesn't sound like an idiot when he writes. He just hasn't spent any time on this game, and has no idea how to play. No clue about his alignment right now. Contributed nothing, ridiculous positions, but not easy to read because of lack of content. If there's a vig out there, this is your man.

Scumhunter - I don't buy his explanations. I don't buy his refusal to join my wagon. I don't buy his vote on ace. Some of his play looks like stubborn town, but other parts look a lot like overeager scum. He's clearly a very smart guy and a good writer, and this conflicts with some of what he's said/done. Need to see more from him. Gut says scum.

And on that note,

vote DemonHybrid

I will make a detailed case of him at the next available opportunity. In the meantime, my ISO should give you a fair idea of where I stand.

@ the replacements for deuxieme, jil, and Spadille

-

You can see that I'm paranoid about lurkers.

So...

If you are town, PLEASE post as much as humanly possible in the next couple of days. You have no reason not to do this, and it will help us enormously if we don't get distracted near deadline by one of you three because you are posting no content. I have zero read on all three of you right now, and bobby don't like having no read.

[Scumhunter]

unvote

Ok ace, I'll buy what you are selling for now.

I'm sorry about your gut on me bob, you ought to get that checked.

[nintendoaddict1]

oh nintendo might be scum, hes definitely been rolefishing. The thing im scared of, is a lurker-scum-team in this game. Wich i think is entirely a possibility, thought bob seems to be able to realize this kind of stuff

Where was I rolefishing?

That's directed at you, hiplop.

[Giitah]

Damnit, I was holding off on doing this until the last minute because of other commitments. >___>

Okay, expect my reads tonight and my vote.

unvote

[foilist13]

Hello everybody. I'm replacing Deuxieme Octopus. I'm sure you'll all come to love me or hate me depending on your alignment.

I am now reading.

[Pine]

Pine - Horrible, horrible play. I'd normally say he's a VI, but he doesn't sound like an idiot when he writes. He just hasn't spent any time on this game, and has no idea how to play. No clue about his alignment right now. Contributed nothing, ridiculous positions, but not easy to read because of lack of content. If there's a vig out there, this is your man.

V/LA

NO INTERNET.

This constant position by archaebob should tell you something. He's scared, and he's scared of me. Scared that if he doesn't get rid of me before I'm back full-time on Tuesday, he's going to go down. So he tried to lynch me. Now he's trying to get me vig'd, and failing that, discredit me by calling my reads horrible and ridiculous.

This man is scum running scared.

[DemonHybrid]

You can see that I'm paranoid about lurkers.

Funny you should say this, especially when you target me for voting the more dangerous kind of lurker.

Anyway, yeah, let me hear your case. I'm not unvoting Jil. I think there's something that you guys are failing to see in her hard-fucking-core, like the fact that she only posted two really weak reads in 22 posts, as opposed to octopus who posted a few really weak reads in TWO posts.

Also, I'm realizing that you're either following every growing wagon nowadays, or throwing suspicion on people and then completely forgetting about them after the wagon dies. Are you going to completely forget about my "play" when the wagon dies?

[hiplop]

Did you even read my post?

Yes, hiplop, I read all your posts. I find them not to be consistent in either content or posting style. The post I'm quoting from you is like a lot of your early posts, where you quote a longer post from someone else (in this case me) and make a very quick comment...making it look like you are contributing much more than you actually are. Your later posts swing back and forth in both content and style, depending on how much heat you are getting at the moment. Until I see something better from you I'll keep my vote where it is.

There is one other question that I did answer earlier...but that question seems to have come up again so I'd like to answer it again after quoting the most recent note on the subject:

Now,

@Barry

Post #4 you said you wanted to hear from jil because she was at L-2. I know this has been said before, but drawing attention to her absence seems almost opportunistic.

I don't think either of them are scum, though, but you can't be really sure on D1.

At the time of the post referenced above, Jil had actually been on thread multiple times without giving a defense, even though the votes were piling up. She had only been at L-2 for a few hours (hence my time zone reference), but this had been going on for much longer with her active posting...but no defense. That's what I was calling out...not her absence from the thread, but her absence of a defense.

get over it, you have no argument. I type walls when i have something to type about. When im just replying to a question, there is no need. If you look at my meta (since you guys seem to love it), i type like this in every game; Scum or Town. Which is why your logic sucks smurf.

As for bobs ask from us; My vote is on my most scummy, Barry has gone up a few points with his persistance with me. Yet demonhunter continues to try and pull a policy lynch on jilyanne. He was one of the ones leading the charge on her, and it wasted like 10 pages. Obvious scum-delay is obvious. Also, theres something just wrong with his posts, they come across very scummy, cant really explain it

just so the mod doesnt get confused;

UNVOTE:
VOTE: DemonHybrid

[DemonHybrid]

Bob: Your serious voting history (not counting your Giitah vote)

Jil
Pine
FoS Heliman/Scumhunter vote in the same post
Two Scumhunter votes to hammer your point
Octopus
DemonHybrid

Your latest post shows no available read on Jil (which, in your last paragraph, you state that it's because you have zero read on the last 3 and would like the replacements to post)

A "Pine is VI, but no read" read on Pine

A "gut scum" read on SH

A scum read on Heliman

Again, "zero read" on Octopus

And a scum read on me.

You've had a subtle switch from Jil being an active lurker to Jil being an innocent townie who's just young and new. You've completely forgotten that she's posted absolutely no content when she said that she's perfectly willing and able. Can I count you in as a scumbuddy if Jil flips scum?

I just see a lot of inconsistencies with your play and as of this final read post, you've lost a lot of townie points with me. I see no scum motivation behind Octopus saying that he's lurking and I'm really kind of shocked that you'd 1. Target that, and then 2. Ignore him and have no read when he gets a replacement/the wagon dies.

Just too much waxing and waning. But again, I'm not taking my vote off of Jil.

[nintendoaddict1]

Did you even read my post?

Yes, hiplop, I read all your posts. I find them not to be consistent in either content or posting style. The post I'm quoting from you is like a lot of your early posts, where you quote a longer post from someone else (in this case me) and make a very quick comment...making it look like you are contributing much more than you actually are. Your later posts swing back and forth in both content and style, depending on how much heat you are getting at the moment. Until I see something better from you I'll keep my vote where it is.

There is one other question that I did answer earlier...but that question seems to have come up again so I'd like to answer it again after quoting the most recent note on the subject:

Now,

@Barry

Post #4 you said you wanted to hear from jil because she was at L-2. I know this has been said before, but drawing attention to her absence seems almost opportunistic.

I don't think either of them are scum, though, but you can't be really sure on D1.

At the time of the post referenced above, Jil had actually been on thread multiple times without giving a defense, even though the votes were piling up. She had only been at L-2 for a few hours (hence my time zone reference), but this had been going on for much longer with her active posting...but no defense. That's what I was calling out...not her absence from the thread, but her absence of a defense.

get over it, you have no argument. I type walls when i have something to type about. When im just replying to a question, there is no need. If you look at my meta (since you guys seem to love it), i type like this in every game; Scum or Town. Which is why your logic sucks smurf.

As for bobs ask from us; My vote is on my most scummy, Barry has gone up a few points with his persistance with me. Yet demonhunter continues to try and pull a policy lynch on jilyanne. He was one of the ones leading the charge on her, and it wasted like 10 pages. Obvious scum-delay is obvious. Also, theres something just wrong with his posts, they come across very scummy, cant really explain it

just so the mod doesnt get confused;

UNVOTE:
VOTE: DemonHybrid

Again, hiplop, you fail to answer my question. I asked you in #347 and #356. You have posted twice since the first time, and have completely ignored the question. I want an answer in your next post.

[hiplop]

sorry, i didnt even see the question second time, you asked for a claim at l-2

[nintendoaddict1]

sorry, i didnt even see the question second time, you asked for a claim at l-2

Again, I did not ask bob to claim, I made a suggestion. Whether or not he decides to take it is up to him.

[nintendoaddict1]

sorry, i didnt even see the question second time, you asked for a claim at l-2

EBWODP:
Which means you saw it the first time but still ignored it...

[ace5993]

DH could you please explain how a serious vote implies that you think the person is scummy? Why have you switched your stance on bob's wagoning from "it's awesome scumhunting" to "if you dont think the person is scummy, you're scummy for wagoning them"?

[Scumhunter]

DH is town, we are not voting him. I am 95% sure that DH-scum would have loved to tunnel a policy vote on me today for our disagreements from last game.

I want to see your case on him Bob. Also, yea Pine is V/LA, we don't want to vig him or even consider voting him til he gets back and can contribute. That is reckless play.

I have to agree with DH with regards to jilynne. If the point of voting someone for pressure is to actually elicit a response you don't just GIVE UP when they aren't responding. You continue to pressure them until they either respond or lynched as bad town/scum.

I'm more than willing to vote jilynne if she doesn't want to contribute.

vote jilynne1991

[foilist13]

Soooooooo after the last hour or so of reading a few people stand out to me.

1) Nintendoaddict1:

Struck me as odd in the very beginning. I wouldn't have taken an RVS accusation remotely seriously no matter how intent the accuser seemed to be with it. However, Nintendo64 took the time to calmly and rationally answer archaebob's questions. In general that seems pro-town, but he it much to serious about it. He is responding as though there was a threat, rather than responding to generate discussion. Scum tend to do that, not town.

No, I like to make it clear when I am using an RVS vote, because some people do not make it known, thus it makes it very confusing as to whether or not it is actually random, so unless I say RVS I am making a serious vote.

Now it's painfully fucking obvious that it was an RVS vote without him saying anything. This is clearly redundant and the result of nervous energy.

Aren't all votes early in the game RVS anyway? Labeling a few of them does not make every other vote a serious one.

Yes, yes they are. Labeling them is strange especially if you already accept the idea that all early votes will be RVS votes. I believe I saw earlier archaebob explain the idea that scum will explain how their play is townie without being prompted. This labeling of your RVS vote is an example of that. "Don't vote me, I'm just random voting."

My vote is dead serious.

Instead of speculating about what I'm doing, why don't you do something productive.

Okay, I'll do that right away.

Vote: archaebob

This is cute.

Okay, I'll do that right away.

Vote: archaebob

Good boy.

archaebob is agreeing with my vote on him...

inb4jester

This has departed from cute and is now stupid.

i dont really have a meta tbh. I play differently depending on how im feeling. I think one thing that reigns supreme throughout all m games, is that i'm a terrible day one-r. Almost every game i attract some sort of attention on me day one. I am at least putting content forward, i apologize for the bad typing, im not feeling that great and not paying much attention.

Does anyone else notice how Demon is pretty much worshipping bob? no one finds that even a little suspicious? i think it warrants a wagon at least

Oh, I've noticed, but to whom do you think it is deserving a wagon of? bob, or Demon?

This is a little more interesting. I don't usually go after people for buddying, but that is very much what it looks like here. He saw someone else who agrees with his pseudo suspicion of archaebob and jumped on it. He has made no previous mention of suspecting DemonHybrid, but now he's on to him! Can't you see him smiling while he writes that?

Oh, and the burden of proof for your vote is on you. You should be justifying it, not waiting for it to be unjustified. Be an active player.

@ nintendo -

I'm not sure he suspects me at all. That's the whole point.

And you didn't answer my question from before. What are you accomplishing with your vote?

Right now, it's not doing much of anything, it seems.

UNVOTE:

Your vote isn't accomplishing anything so you just get rid of it? You don't vote somewhere else maybe? You do, but not until a few posts later. That means you weren't reading anybody except archaebob at that point. If you had been, you would have been able to switch your vote more efficiently to another significant read rather than going back to find out who else has been suspicious. This is VERY indicative of scum play. You watch one player and argue with/vote them to appear to be active. Interesting.

Nintendo, please think about why you want to vote me. Is it solely because I have been lurking? Does that make me scum? Normally lurking is actually somewhat of a scumtell from me, but if you check my other games on here I have been similarly inactive the last few days. Ignoring my lurking up until this point...why would you want to vote me?

Like I said, the vote on you was to ensure you would actually post something. Seeing as you have, I'll UNVOTE: .

Oh, but wait, something stood out to me in that wall:

I suppose it's possible that he is a very good scum player trying to take charge from the beginning of the game... How anyone reads bob as scum is beyond me.

What's this? Saying bob could be scum, and in the same post, showing disbelief that anyone could see bob as scum?

What is this I don't even...

wtf? ................

IF YOU HAVE SKIPPED EVERYTHING UP TO THIS POINT, PLEASE READ THIS NEXT PART.

If you need to move on... then move on. Yes, I am bothered by his lack of content, he is usually more active. But in another completed game I played with Pine, (Mini 1156) he turned out to be scum, so his lack of activity here is a towntell for him.

As for me not liking your play, I'll have to get into that later as I am going out the door.

I saved this for last, because it is BY FAR the most interesting tid bit in Nintendo's play.

Most importantly, you make a meta argument. This meta argument is based on exactly one game. Pine posted lots as scum, and little now. Therefore he is playing differently than he did as scum, and therefore he is most likely town.

archaebob (who you are still voting at this point in the thread) posted a town meta game a long fucking time ago in which he plays almost

exactly

as he is playing now. Clearly you accept the value of meta, yet you ignore archaebob's cited meta for your own purposes. That my friend is fabricated reasoning, and that is scum play.

vote: Nintendoaddict1

The other people who seem scummy to me are hiplop (gut read mostly, haven't read him in iso yet), Pine, and Maaayyyyybeeee ace.

Archaebob, heliman, and to a lesser extent Barry Allen are town.

~Fixed.

-pappums rat

[foilist13]

@Mod: I messed up my first couple of quote tags. Could you fix that for me?

[foilist13]

and the last one...

[Scumhunter]

C'mon foilist. I was trying to stop ppl from voting ur slot. Not even a town read on me for that. I am disappoint.

As for your case on nintendo, interesting. I will have to think about it more. I may have prematurely wrote nintendo off as town because I remembered a game where I thought he was super scummy day 1, we ended up lynching him and he flipped town. Bad logic on my part I'll admit.

I found his interactions with me regarding his vote on me/unvote to be a bit strange at the time, but I was in the mindset he was town at that time so I didn't really consider his motivation.

I think your case on him is pretty good actually and I want to see how he responds. I no longer want to lynch Ace or Barry today.

My current preferred lynches would probably be jilynne/nintendo (potentially).

I want to back off my strong town read on bob because I think it is a good point that his vote wandering as actually been a bit aimless and unfruitful as of yet.

[foilist13]

Ah sorry mate. Your big post read as town to me, but I haven't seen enough of you to give you a clear reading.

I wouldn't mind wagoning jilynne, but I don't think it will get the reaction anyone is looking for. I'm just going to say the words "ongoing game" and hope that everybody knows what that means.

[archaebob]

@ foilist13 -

What's your impression of DemonHybrid? Please look carefully before you answer.

@ Pine -

Pine - Horrible, horrible play. I'd normally say he's a VI, but he doesn't sound like an idiot when he writes. He just hasn't spent any time on this game, and has no idea how to play. No clue about his alignment right now. Contributed nothing, ridiculous positions, but not easy to read because of lack of content. If there's a vig out there, this is your man.

V/LA

NO INTERNET.

This constant position by archaebob should tell you something. He's scared, and he's scared of me. Scared that if he doesn't get rid of me before I'm back full-time on Tuesday, he's going to go down. So he tried to lynch me. Now he's trying to get me vig'd, and failing that, discredit me by calling my reads horrible and ridiculous.

This man is scum running scared.

You need help.