Mini Normal 1187: Game Over

[foilist13]

@Ace5993: What are your thoughts on Nintendo? You seem rather oblivious to the discussion at the moment.

[ace5993]

I still haven't had time to go through it properly but in general nintendo is giving me a newb-town read rather than a scum read just based on that it

looks

like he's actively scumhunting, something newb-scum often have trouble with. I'd have to take a look at the meta contradiction points you brought up in context to really say anything about that. I will look at it more in depth later when I have time.

[Scumhunter]

Okay, I've finally finished my analysis. Before I say anything I'd like to question Scumhunter.
What makes you so certain DH is town? Do you think there is a merit to defending him so much? If you think DH isn't scum, why don't you make a logical and coherent argument against the attack of the supporters rather than telling people 'HEY GUYS STOP TRYING TO KILL HIM!'? I'm interested in what you have to say on him.

Gut. He's not 100% town but he is one of the worst possible lynches today. Of course there is merit to defending someone I think is town. Do you disagree?

My argument is based on his attitude, his general helpfulness, and my strong belief he would have pushed on me all of d1 if he were scum.

[hiplop]

again, you have no case at all scumhunter. If you want to defend your buddy, at least provide some evidence

[Giitah]

Wouldn't it be a good idea to observe the arguments of the attackers, then, instead of sitting around wondering 'hmm, why are they voting for him? I mean, he's obviously town!'
Regardless, that's enough, thank you, I've gleaned enough information.

Unvote

Posting my reads when I return to my desktop from my labtop, since I have all the notes I've taken saved there.

[ace5993]

Eh, even after a quick glance at his ISO I'm fairly convinced nintendo is town, however I'm more interested in what he has to say in his defense right now so I'll refrain from posting any sort of explanation for a little bit.

Scumhunter can you please explain how DH not voting you makes him any more town? I don't see the motivation for scum to blatantly push a revenge policy lynch D1.

[ace5993]

EBWOP: Scumhunter could you link to the game you mentioned in your #18? The one that makes DH want to policy lynch you.

DH wall incoming later tonight.

[Scumhunter]

again, you have no case at all scumhunter. If you want to defend your buddy, at least provide some evidence

you can't just say this and make it true.

[Giitah]

again, you have no case at all scumhunter. If you want to defend your buddy, at least provide some evidence

you can't just say this and make it true.

He did and he can. You have a fluff argument based on an emotional appeal. Need I say more?

[Scumhunter]

EBWOP: Scumhunter could you link to the game you mentioned in your #18? The one that makes DH want to policy lynch you.

DH wall incoming later tonight.

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=17488

I was messing around with a fake claim to semi-troll. I knew the mod from off-site and he was kind of encouraging my behaviour out of thread so I had no idea I would get modkilled. DH raged, etc. Don't want to revisit that game's specifics. But DH even said in the signup thread he was going to rage policy vote me all of d1 this game and then decided against it for some reason. I think him (scum) + me (town) would have loved to just tunnel the crap out of me and have it be to his win condition as well...This entire point is semi-irrelevant because I don't know enough about his mindset to know how he would react once the game started, I was just surprised is all.

Can someone please explain the case on DH. I have a hard time readnig walls of text. I do better with a synopsis of ~3-5 of the best bulletpoint reasons on why someone is scum.

[Scumhunter]

again, you have no case at all scumhunter. If you want to defend your buddy, at least provide some evidence

you can't just say this and make it true.

He did and he can. You have a fluff argument based on an emotional appeal. Need I say more?

I'm stating my goddamn opinion if you don't agree with me, then don't. Emotional appeals are not a scumtell. I say this every game and no one listens. EMOTIONS ARE PART OF THE GAME. The only reason people go to the default "aTe is a scumtell" is because they are too shit to actually read people and make complicated, calculated decisions. I say this every game no one ever listens. It's much easier to play by a rote system and blame the people you misread once they flip town by saying "they were scummy" not my fault. I mean jesus christ, its really sad tbh.

[Giitah]

No, no, no, I'm not saying it's a scumtell. I'm telling you to back it up. That's all I'm saying.

[Scumhunter]

Ok, if someone can explain the case on DH concisely then I'd understand what I'm having to back up in the first place.

[Giitah]

^^ Will do, but... frankly I can't even recall. I passed over it briefly only.

[Giitah]

Hey, uh, guys, in general, is it a better idea to post just your scum reads or post a read on everybody?

[DemonHybrid]

I just came back from work. Doing some reading in about an hour after I wind down.

[Giitah]

Not really sure what to do from here. I'll post my reads tomorrow morning hopefully once I get a response. S:

[hiplop]

Hey, uh, guys, in general, is it a better idea to post just your scum reads or post a read on everybody?

Definitely everyone.

[hiplop]

Scum reads alone don't really do anything

[Giitah]

How so? I'd like an explanation too, it's a bit of game theory I'm iffy on. Haven't read/seen any reasoning on it.

[hiplop]

Well, if you were to be scum; the only people who we would have connections between you, would be the people you mention as scum. That leaves a bunch of empty holes that arent helpful. I guess if you were town, itd be the same.

Just not enough Info/scum can continue to hide

[Giitah]

Okay, works. I'll post it up tonight then. Er... time to mop it up.

[Giitah]

Here are my reads and my vote for day 1, as of now:

Hiplop

Noob scum/noob town. His reasoning and style of play is pretty offbeat and I can't really get an accurate read of him. I'll probably have to read his history to better understand but I think he might just be noob spelled all over; even so, I'll research what I can to glean something of his alignment.
While it seems like he wants to help, he has horrible reasoning and doesn't seem to have a great grasp of the game theory. No accurate read, really. He occassionally helps out in the questioning but just seems to just as often just get in the way.
Little other notes I can pick up is: he has horrible typing (meta) that improves when he defends/attacks well (could be a useful note to eyeball).
As of late, he reads pretty scummy giving me the impression of wanting to lynch immediately in post #341, where he stated
"atm im fine with lynching;
Barry
DK
Grallie".
See this as OMGUS from me, but the fact that he said it in that way looks kinda scummy to me.

Foilist

No accurate read as of yet. Not enough content.

archaebob

Strong town read. Like ace(?) mentioned earlier, there is a chance he could be playing a mindscrew WIFOM game with us and that he's actually a Mafia, but it's looking pretty low.

jilynne1991

Fucking terrible town player or a really noobie/good at lurking scum.
She strikes me as pretty scummy in it that she's really nervous, as seen in really trying to explain herself and why she was lurking and why nothing had happened in post 101; she gives us a really weak sort of response, her only really useful response in post 187; but that's it for content from Jily. Otherwise she has struck me as inattentive, lacking in any dedication and very nervous trying to keep her cool. She needs to post like HELL or be replaced.

Barry Allen

Personally, I don't have an accurate enough read of him but I'm getting a relatively townie vibe from him overall. He argued with Hiplop throughout page 14 (posts 325 to around 350), where he gave me a pretty passive and understanding tone rather than an offensive mafia. He didn't vote Hiplop until hiplop demonstrated some pretty funky logic. This deserves a read-over if he shows anymore mafia behavior but overall despite not giving off a strong townie vibe he DID give it off when he was arguing with Hiplop here. I'll leave him as a townie read leaning towards the null side.

NintendoAddict

He reads as a pretty noob town to me. He argues with Archaebob on the game theory a little bit but in general seems to grasp it enough to read decently. He posts some pretty faulty logic at times, in general his ability to reason appears to be somewhat limited to me, which COULD be read as a potential scumtell but it just reads noob to me. We can see some bad reasoning and also an example of his somewhat lacking game theory understanding in posts 239 and 250.
As for the cases against him, I've read them (hopefully) though I've forgot what they're about and he still seems newb town to me.

Heliman

He passes off to me as scummy because he's far too vocal. His play style is brash and rude and his case against Archaebob later in the game passes off as pretty scummy compared to what he said near the beginning if you view his posts in isolation. He's decisively null tell just because my gut reaction conflicts with his content, but with his intelligence I really don't think he'd be barking at Archaebob, especially after what he said to start with. I'm interested in this conflict, but there's no time to investigate this unfortunately.

Ace

Decisively town so far. He's done some good work so far but he also shot down the Jily case, which looks pretty bad on him. I think it was simply a mark of bad judgement rather than scumminess. The only odd thing I find is that he promised to give us an analysis of the Heliman vs. Archaebob argument, which never did pop up ever again if I'm not mistaken.

DemonHybrid

I get a town read from him. His content is good and he's helped the town. Not much more to say. His argument with Bob goes on theory but there's nothing from him to say he's scum, while there's a pretty strong read on him as town.
However, the fact that he's hesitant to join another wagon is of interest to me and should be noted.

Spadille

V/LA

Scumhunter

Null read. After being prodded to post he posted consistently and offered decent opinions but he's also proved he's relatively intelligent, meaning he could be either town or scum at this point. However, he does refuse to vote for someone he thinks is town, even if it's blatantly obvious it's not a lynch vote. Not sure what to make of this but that's all I can say.

Kay, that's my reads. long post...

[hiplop]

Here are my reads and my vote for day 1, as of now:

Hiplop

Noob scum/noob town. His reasoning and style of play is pretty offbeat and I can't really get an accurate read of him. I'll probably have to read his history to better understand but I think he might just be noob spelled all over; even so, I'll research what I can to glean something of his alignment.
While it seems like he wants to help, he has horrible reasoning and doesn't seem to have a great grasp of the game theory. No accurate read, really. He occassionally helps out in the questioning but just seems to just as often just get in the way.
Little other notes I can pick up is: he has horrible typing (meta) that improves when he defends/attacks well (could be a useful note to eyeball).
As of late, he reads pretty scummy giving me the impression of wanting to lynch immediately in post #341, where he stated
"atm im fine with lynching;
Barry
DK
Grallie".
See this as OMGUS from me, but the fact that he said it in that way looks kinda scummy to me.

Foilist

No accurate read as of yet. Not enough content.

archaebob

Strong town read. Like ace(?) mentioned earlier, there is a chance he could be playing a mindscrew WIFOM game with us and that he's actually a Mafia, but it's looking pretty low.

jilynne1991

Fucking terrible town player or a really noobie/good at lurking scum.
She strikes me as pretty scummy in it that she's really nervous, as seen in really trying to explain herself and why she was lurking and why nothing had happened in post 101; she gives us a really weak sort of response, her only really useful response in post 187; but that's it for content from Jily. Otherwise she has struck me as inattentive, lacking in any dedication and very nervous trying to keep her cool. She needs to post like HELL or be replaced.

Barry Allen

Personally, I don't have an accurate enough read of him but I'm getting a relatively townie vibe from him overall. He argued with Hiplop throughout page 14 (posts 325 to around 350), where he gave me a pretty passive and understanding tone rather than an offensive mafia. He didn't vote Hiplop until hiplop demonstrated some pretty funky logic. This deserves a read-over if he shows anymore mafia behavior but overall despite not giving off a strong townie vibe he DID give it off when he was arguing with Hiplop here. I'll leave him as a townie read leaning towards the null side.

NintendoAddict

He reads as a pretty noob town to me. He argues with Archaebob on the game theory a little bit but in general seems to grasp it enough to read decently. He posts some pretty faulty logic at times, in general his ability to reason appears to be somewhat limited to me, which COULD be read as a potential scumtell but it just reads noob to me. We can see some bad reasoning and also an example of his somewhat lacking game theory understanding in posts 239 and 250.
As for the cases against him, I've read them (hopefully) though I've forgot what they're about and he still seems newb town to me.

Heliman

He passes off to me as scummy because he's far too vocal. His play style is brash and rude and his case against Archaebob later in the game passes off as pretty scummy compared to what he said near the beginning if you view his posts in isolation. He's decisively null tell just because my gut reaction conflicts with his content, but with his intelligence I really don't think he'd be barking at Archaebob, especially after what he said to start with. I'm interested in this conflict, but there's no time to investigate this unfortunately.

Ace

Decisively town so far. He's done some good work so far but he also shot down the Jily case, which looks pretty bad on him. I think it was simply a mark of bad judgement rather than scumminess. The only odd thing I find is that he promised to give us an analysis of the Heliman vs. Archaebob argument, which never did pop up ever again if I'm not mistaken.

DemonHybrid

I get a town read from him. His content is good and he's helped the town. Not much more to say. His argument with Bob goes on theory but there's nothing from him to say he's scum, while there's a pretty strong read on him as town.
However, the fact that he's hesitant to join another wagon is of interest to me and should be noted.

Spadille

V/LA

Scumhunter

Null read. After being prodded to post he posted consistently and offered decent opinions but he's also proved he's relatively intelligent, meaning he could be either town or scum at this point. However, he does refuse to vote for someone he thinks is town, even if it's blatantly obvious it's not a lynch vote. Not sure what to make of this but that's all I can say.

Kay, that's my reads. long post...

lmao

[Giitah]

One thing I missed that's bugging me. Archaebob, Post 109, you FoS DH and give no reasoning. Explain now, please.