Newbie 1116 -- Game Over

[Cobblerfone]

Blue is still looking suspicious to me, because after all that he still doesn't seem to have any real thoughts on anything. He's posted up an extremely vague list of "prime suspects" but it consists of everyone who didn't post during that chatfest. I guess that means if you post a lot, you aren't scum?

If that's the case he's learning pretty quickly, I'd say. Lynch all lurkers and all that jazz.

Grimm and VE still seems like town on town to me. They're getting along better, so that's good I guess. FWIW, my initial vote on VE was a pressure vote, and when he flipped his shit, it didn't help AT ALL. Am I convinced he's scum, no. Do I still think there is a chance he is, sure. I don't like my vote sitting idle on no one though, so it stays where it is for now.

*my computer is now awashed in a mist of orange juice*

What? You do realize how suspicious that sounds don't you?

Welcome cobbler

Thank you. This is the first time I've replaced in and the first time I'm not a complete wreck of nerves.

Now, more in-depth thoughts after I've had a while to simmer them over:

BigAl

Seems to be wary of using IC things to get town cred, putting "but that would be WIFOM" every third post.[/hyperbole]
This sounds like IC-scum that doesn't want to get in trouble, and if it wasn't for the not knowing how the QTs work to balance it out I'd have him as a total scumread.

Miss JJ

Yeah, ain't got much to say. Seems to be going for the "easy pickings" of Cymru, plus the apparent overdefensiveness. Even though she wasn't

actively

defending herself that quote of hers in my first post rings alarm bells.

Cymru

Yeah, hard to read. But lurking more often after getting attention is not a good sign, if nullish.

[bigAl]

Intestingly enough, cy supports blue's theory, but blue himself doesn't. That's a new one. Again, a minor point against cy.

and if it wasn't for the not knowing how the QTs work to balance it out I'd have [Al] as a total scumread

For the record, if I were playing against myself, I would call my "not knowing how QTs work" post total crap, as far as being pro-town goes. It's like blue posting that he's a townie, except that he's very new at this and doesn't know any better, while I've played a bunch of games - I

do

know better. Sure, it's an IC post, it's about strategies on how to play the game, it's a

useful

post for getting the town to think, but I'd consider it a null-post on scumminess. It does not particularly clear me personally. I'm honestly surprised that anyone would read anything townie into that, and that more people weren't suspicious of it. Only JJ points it out, and VE mentions it, as far as I can find/remember. To me, that's a small point for JJ - someone looking for scum rather than just floating along.

One of my concerns against BigAl comes due to the way he's playing this game. It mostly comes down to one or more of:
[...]
-'Pressure-voting' without giving the target anything to work with besides the vote.

I've only voted twice this game, and I think I did give reasonable things to work with. The first vote (cy) was effectively part of the random voting stage, and I think that's been pretty thoroughly covered in thread. My vote for Grimmjow is in #191. Looking back at it, there are fewer direct accusations there than I expected, but I still quote some things in that post and in agreement with VE in #186.

Finally someone agrees with me about cy (VE in #418). I've been saying this for 6 pages now... cy has no opinions on anyone. [Admittedly four of those pages are pretty skimmable.] Still, his lack of opinions is definitely not helping.

SCUM
Miss JJ (Overly defensive even in passing:)

And then there's the game with me - sure, I was mafia but that alone is no reason to think I am in this game.

I don't know if JJ is scum or not, but I certainly don't think that this is evidence for it. What she says seems only logical.

Maybe I'm getting paranoid.

This whole game is about being suspicious/paranoid. I don't see how this is bad thing.

[ic hat]blue, if you want to FOS someone, use the bold tags

instead of vote tags[/ic hat]

Also, looks like JJ has just recently posted in another game. If you're busy, fine, but check in at least please and let us know.

[Cobblerfone]

I don't know if JJ is scum or not, but I certainly don't think that this is evidence for it. What she says seems only logical.

No one was saying she was scum because she was scum before though. It's odd that she would even think to bring it up, especially since it seems like a sublimable appeal to probablity. Thank you for making a Miss JJ/BigAl scumteam look even more viable to me.

To me, that's a small point for JJ - someone looking for scum rather than just floating along.

Power roles can feel free to ignore this, but this is what I would do:
@Cop: If you exist, don't reveal yourself, that goes without saying. But I'd say look at bigAl tonight.
@Jailkeeper: see above, except imprison bigAl.
[/WIFOM for Mafia]

[bigAl]

It was being discussed though, back on page 6 where the JJ quote comes from. My point was that she was /not/ being overly defensive, as you seem to think so - the only evidence you gave for her being scum was being overly defensive. I'm disagreeing with the fact that you call it overly defensive, not with the fact that she might be scum based on a previous game.

Also, asking a cop to investigate someone... perhaps because this would prevent someone else from being investigated, such as yourself. Telling power roles what to do is almost never a good thing for the town.

[Cobblerfone]

Also, asking a cop to investigate someone... perhaps because this would prevent someone else from being investigated, such as yourself. Telling power roles what to do is almost never a good thing for the town.

Okay that was weak. And telling power roles what to do and how useful or detrimental it is depends on the situation, like not wanting the IC to be lynched unless I'm really sure you're scum. And you appear to be doing the thing that you are accusing me of doing, trying to getting out of investigation. Plus you missed the "ignore this if you want, this is just what I would do" disclaimer.

[bigAl]

"like not wanting the IC to be lynched unless I'm really sure you're scum" - This rings town to me. The rest... still a bit questionable, but makes some sense in context. My point is that, if a cop feels like they can best use their investigative powers on me, then fine, do it. I'm not trying to get out of an investigation at all. You are, potentially. There's a difference there. I didn't miss the disclaimer, but the suggestion was still there, and still somewhat suspicious. Not like a I'll lynch you suspicious, but like an add another 3% to my scumdar suspicious. It's really not all that uncommon a tell - the more the mafia direct the town's actions, the worse the town will do.

[Cobblerfone]

I'm going to bed but before I do:

This whole game is about being suspicious/paranoid. I don't see how this is bad thing.

I'd expect a town-IC to not submit a self-declared paranoid theory and instead focus on players he actually finds explicitly scummy. Granted you did it once, and that's why I want the cop on you. Jeez, it didn't even need to be this blown out of proportion. Though I think I see now how it can look scummy. Thank you, Mr. IC, you've taught me.

[bluepokemon1234]

workdawg town has no nead to add preasure also your a lurker resentment to my suspect list proves you want to protect lurkers IE: your scum buddies so VOTE: /workdawgVOTE:

[bluepokemon1234]

oups messed up the code VOTE: workdawg

[VisceraEyes]

Greetings Cobbler! It's good to see another active replacement.

I'm going to say something radical, and I don't want everyone to freak out about it. Here goes.

With as many replacements as we've had today, would it be absolutely out of the realm of feasibility to consider a No Lynch today, considering none of us are really going to get a full-cycle's read on everyone (I PbPA almost everyone as soon as I can on my end due to being used to the 48/24 cycles I'm used to, so I'm indifferent)....if not, I'm not trying to change any minds or bring it up further...I'm only raising the possibility, again. My reasoning is that, for at least the replacements, they'll get a chance to get a fair read on everyone for a more informed lynch tomorrow.

[cymru96]

right you want insight? I'm sot totally sure what insight means but I'll try.

I've said it time and time again, I think Miss JJ is scum, I've explained why before.
I am also slightly suspicious of Cobblerfone and Tommie because I didnt trust yonzy or tucah cause they were lurking.

I have no time for more now but I shall continue later

[VisceraEyes]

*sigh*

@cymru
Your case is the following, if I'm understanding it at all.

MissJJ called my mistake a scum-slip. I told her it was an accident. She said it was NOT an accident. I think she's scum.

Am I missing anything?

[VisceraEyes]

Grimm and VE still seems like town on town to me. They're getting along better, so that's good I guess. FWIW, my initial vote on VE was a pressure vote, and when he flipped his shit, it didn't help AT ALL. Am I convinced he's scum, no. Do I still think there is a chance he is, sure. I don't like my vote sitting idle on no one though, so it stays where it is for now.

*my computer is now awashed in a mist of orange juice*

What? You do realize how suspicious that sounds don't you?

I'm with Cobbler on this one. If you no longer find someone suspicious enough to lynch, and you're not trying to pressure them for information, there's no town-motivated reason to have your vote on that person. As I explained to Grimm, all that serves to do is encourage YOU to look for ways to justify your vote further, if only subconsciously, and encourages mafia to push for a bandwagon. I suggested that Grimm take his vote off me, but he was blinded by tunnel-vision. You appear to at least be looking other places, so I'll leave it to your discretion. But be aware that it's commonly viewed as anti-town to leave a vote on someone you admittedly don't find particularly scummy.

[Nobody Special]

Replacing Miss JJ at her request.

[bluepokemon1234]

whos onlie right now?

[VisceraEyes]

Just me and the Mod it looks like.

[bluepokemon1234]

aw

[bluepokemon1234]

thats no fun ik your town

[bluepokemon1234]

omg the suns out i guess i should go to bed for 2 hours sigh tomorrow is gonna be a fucked up day

[bigAl]

I am also slightly suspicious of Cobblerfone and Tommie because I didnt trust yonzy or tucah cause they were lurking.

I wouldn't so much call it lurking, so much as call it forgot about the game. I don't see this as a scummy behaviour. They stated that they had real life stuff briefly, and then stopped posting.

UNVOTE: Grimmjow, VOTE: Cymru for not contributing any suspicions for pages and pages, and then finally contributing illogical ones.

Mod: considering the number of replacements, would you be flexible on the deadline at all? Maybe one extra week?

[Workdawg]

@cobbler (and VE)

- There's no point in unvoting and leaving my vote on no-one. Mine is the only vote on VE, leaving my vote there is not putting him in any immediate danger of being lynched.

@cobbler

Addressing any potential power-roles is suspicious. Preempting your comment with a "you can ignore this if you want" does nothing to mitigate that. Mostly for the reason that bigAl suggested, but also because town shouldn't want to know if they exist or not. If town knows, then scum would also know and would NK them for sure.

The "not wanting the IC to be lynched unless we are sure" comment sounds a bit like you are trying to divert his suspicions. Convenient that the person who was suspicious of your motives is the IC you are saying you wouldn't want to lynch.

@blue

- I'm not sure what you are talking about with your mention of lurkers, but I'll address the other part. Town's job is to find scum. Scum's job is to hide. Town absolutely needs to pressure people in this game. Pressure makes people make mistakes, and that's how you catch scum. Your reason for voting for me seems completely off-base.

@VE

- A no-lynch is NOT an option IMO. A no-lynch would most likely end up with town getting stuck at 8-players (scum would NK one of us). As you pointed out previously (sort of erroneously actually, and I forgot to mention that, post #283), an even number of players is bad for town because we still need a majority vote, but we lose a town voice. Town would need EVERYONE but one town player to get on the same wagon (or scum would have to be on the wagon)... it just puts town in a bad spot. The part that I mentioned where you were in error is because you were referring to lynching a townie. Again, if we lynched someone, scum would get a NK and we would most likely end up at 7 players left. Not only is that a better number, but we get the additional information of another flip. Certainly lynching town is not ideal, but I would say that in 99% of cases it's better than a no-lynch on D1.

VOTE: cymru

You don't post very much (lurking), you STILL haven't shared any opinions on people that can't be summed up with OMGUS (JJ) or "lurking" (really they weren't lurking, just inactive... and that's why they got replaced). You seem to be actively avoiding taking a stance against anyone but JJ.

@Blue

- You seem pretty suspicious too, but you seem way more newbie than scummy so far. You've got over 20 posts per day, but very few of them contain any significant information. You REALLY need to make sure you are reading carefully and don't be afraid to share your thoughts on people.

[Cobblerfone]

A no-lynch is NOT an option IMO.

I thought the statistics said an even number of players increased the town's odds? Or was that with nightstart?

but also because town shouldn't want to know if they exist or not. If town knows, then scum would also know and would NK them for sure.

I understand that you're using your phone a lot, but I said for them to NOT reveal themselves.

[Cobblerfone]

I thought the statistics said an even number of players increased the town's odds? Or was that with nightstart?

I checked it and it is with nightstart.

[Cobblerfone]

I read Cymru's ISO and I changed my mind again. I also skimmed Workdawg's:

I rather prefer RQS to RVS. I know we are past the "random" stage of the game for the most part, but I would still like to ask at least a single question.

What is everyone's experience with mafia? How many games have you played? Here or elsewhere, online, IRL? etc.

For the record I also prefer RQS. But not that kind. I guess I'd actually call it "Random Interrogation Stage" or "Random Loaded-Question Stage".

[Workdawg]

I'm not using my thread anymore, and I know you said that. But like I said, adding a disclaimer to your statements means nothing.

I didn't post up real "RQS" because by the time I really got into the game, we were beyond that.