Neon Genesis Evangelion Mafia (Game Over)

[Amrun]

VOTE: Starbuck

Let's hope there are no cults in this game.

[Amrun]

My phone is. About to die so I can't finish reading the thread, but I will say this:

The last time I played with Starbuck, she outted her own cult recruiter out of butthurt. It was such an egregious example of playing against wincon that she was warned and put on probation, iirc.

I have no personal problem with Starbuck, but that warrants an RVS warning that such things will not be tolerated a second time.

Why people actually thought I was talking about cults in a way unrelated to my vote on Starbuck I don't know, but Tar needs to explain why that's a scumtell and. When I can read I will analyze sheepers (ani comes to mind).

[Amrun]

I don't have a grudge. It was just an RVS vote. Reading now.

[Amrun]

Okay, read.

Lobster, why place an rvs vote and FoS someone in the same post?

Ani, why did you vote for me? Explain what you thought I was saying.

(Tar answered this question within the thread already.)

Kast, why did you call Grey a VI? What basis do you have for this?

Ace, why is two posts of supposed fluff a scumtell at this stage of the game?

Not really seeing the case on Kast yet, though I don't exactly like his posts, either.

[Amrun]

Why isn't your vote on Candle Jack now, then?

[Amrun]

Seriously, it was just an RVS vote. I didn't recognize most of the players and wanted to say hello to someone. I don't think you would do such a thing again or I would have /outted. I considered RVSing Grey because he flaked out in [redacted], but it's [redacted] so I didn't. It's not a grudge and grudges aren't against the rules anyway.

[Amrun]

Why do you care? You've been here long enough to understand RVS "hello.". That is the only game I ever played with you and thus the only experience I had to say hello with. Sorry if it's still a sore spot.

P-edit: I meant to say earlier that Pom's non-committal post was not good. Got distracted.

[Amrun]

It was... It was like the third post in the game. Clearly RVS.

I had no idea you were still upset about it or I would never have said it. Geez.

P-edit: starbuck, we've played the walking dead and this. That's it. Trawl through my games if you want. My wiki is up to date.

This is stupid and we should stop. I never meant it to become a thing. I am truly sorry if my mention of it upset you. Not my intention. Can we move on?

[Amrun]

Yeah, Kast wagon is bad.

Has everyone posted yet?

[Amrun]

How is there a relation between mentioning a cult and the presence of a xult?

Foor the record, I seriiously doubt there is a cult here.

[Amrun]

How is there a relation between mentioning a cult and the presence of a xult?

Foor the record, I seriiously doubt there is a cult here.

No one answer this. This was intended to suss out ani's alignment, but upon reflection, this could lead us somewhere I don't want to go.

[Amrun]

VOTE: Lobster

I reallly don't like the weak FoS and the pointing out of scummy things while staying with an RVS vote.

[Amrun]

Kast's posts seem pretty reasonable to me and I don't see what all the fuss is about.

Nice pun, though.

[Amrun]

Guys, Grey has joked about being masons with me before when we were both town. Also it was an obvjoke. Chill.

VOTE: Nocmen

For flipping out about it - looks like he's looking for categorical flaws (LYNCH ALL LIARS! YOU LIED!) rather than intent.

Still want to hear more from Lobster, though.

Nocmen: Kast's thought processes seem genuine to me - he just seems a little angry. I wouldn't say he is excessively town, but I see no need for a serious lynch-worthy wagon on him.

vollkan: Pom's #41 was like, "Well, what Amrun did was scummy, but it could have been a mistake, so maybe it's townie. Also, I'm going to extend RVS and not contribute. Bye." Her more recent post was better, though.

[Amrun]

Kast, how do you know Stevie would be a mislynch? What makes you think he's town?

[Amrun]

Both, but more the former rather than the latter.

[Amrun]

I thought Nocmen claimed scum according to you. Are you ever going to explain that or show conviction in your reads, Grey?

[Amrun]

I thought Nocmen claimed scum according to you. Are you ever going to explain that or show conviction in your reads, Grey?

Sure, soon as there stops being MULTIPLE SCUM I'll be happy to pick one and stick to him.

I mean unless you have a "Lone Scumman" theory you'd like to share.

No, seriously, how did Nocmen claim scum? I think he is, so this is relevant to my interests.

Vollkan: it was more about the wording and the combination with the RV. Her waffling explanation of having a null (?) read on me demonstrates that she read enough to have reads and be able to generate them, and yet she makes an RV and expresses no suspicions. Why? It makes no sense. Also, it didn't seem to be a nullread - it seemed to be a town read with a couple of loopholes to allow for backtracking.

[Amrun]

I understand your position, but repsectfully disagree, especially on point 2.

[Amrun]

Missed the part where Nocmen said he believed the claim. Cool with my vote.

[Amrun]

Oh, "the fact" thing is weak, but I still find Nocmen scummy otherwise.

Lobstersheep is very bad - torn between the two.

[Amrun]

No PM here either.

Nocmen is on the Stevie wagon so I won't be getting on it - though I objectively see why the wagon exists and there are townreads also on it.

[Amrun]

Well, if I was totally convinced Stevie was scum, yes.

I see what other people are picking up on, but it doesn't really read as scummy to me. No textbook reason why... Just gut. He seriously reads like a newb, but he says he's not... I've been kind of distracted all day so I probably need to re-read the last couple of pages.

[Amrun]

The Stevie wagon kind of got huge while I wasn't paying attention and I'm too tired to read closely now.

But overall, there have been a lot of flaws in his play, which people have picked up on - but flaws don't always mean scum. They can be a townie too loose with words that doesn't think enough - and my gut says stevie is that, especially woth his comment that he often has to post many times in a row because he thinks of stuff to add. That shows he doesn't carefully consider his posts, which I think scum wuld do more.

I was legitimately surprised when he insisted he was an experienced player because I never would have guessed it.

I see people picking up on the flaws in his play and I probably need to evaluate them individially to see if they come from a scum mindset, but when I read them the first time, they just seemed like a series of dumb mistakes with no over-arching agenda behind them. Gut says town on Stevie.

I wil look again when I have time but I doubt I wil ever support this wagon. It has enough validity that I don't think the people on it, especially early, are scum fabricating cases, but I just don't buy stevie as scum. I would hammer at deadline, but not before.

[Amrun]

Also my last few posts make little sense upon re-reading them but I am half asleep so hopefully I can be more coherent tomorrow. Sorry. Probably have typos too.

[Amrun]

Having a townread on someone = scumbuddies?

Yeah, okay. I already have a scumread on you so it's especially hard to taje you seriously.

How the hell would you know about multiscum unless you were scum? Wtf? No flips and you're talking about that shit to justify conflicting scumreads? Hell no.

And obviously I'm responsible for what I say. It's probably just a little harder to follow than usual.

[Amrun]

Also, for someone talkng with scuch confidence about stevie being scum, you're not voting him.

And I just realized you and I are the only ones voting nocmen; not acceptable.

VOTE: lobstercatapult

[Amrun]

Nocmen: I'll do a wagon analysis tomorrow. Not alive enough right now. You're the only one who makes me go "nothx" that strongly, though. You and lobster - though I do believe you and lobster aren't scum together.

[Amrun]

ZeL, that isn't a serious question... Is it?

[Amrun]

Lobster isn't voting Stevie, but clearly supports the wagon, which is uncomfortable in and of itself.

I also suspect Pomegranate on the wagon, and her vote on it was particularly bad, coming right after she was called out for fencesitting/extending RVS.

Drewoftherushes I'm leaning scum on as well, but for no legitimate reason, just gut. Same with ace.

[Amrun]

Because I don't suspect Stevie? Whatevs, have fun with that.

For the record, though, grey, you are town. So is candlejack.

[Amrun]

Pomegranate, I never changed my mind OR my reasons, I just failed to explain them properly at first, which is why I immediately did.

Nocmen, my vote on you came before the "slip" and for entirely independent reasons.

As did my suspicion of Lobster. Do an ISO really quickly or something.

[Amrun]

Fuck my life. I just lost a huge post.

Nocmen: I agree I need to show my work on Lobster, but I'm at work right now and my fucking phone just ate. My case. I will re-do it soon, though. I've been busy.

Pomegranate: though those posts are slightly disjointed due to me being sleepy while making them, they don't actually conflict. Nocmen's presence and Lobster's support of the wagon are indeed deterrants to me, but if I had an independent scumread on Stevie, that would matter less. As it happens, I have a mild townread on him. If the wagon was all-town from my pov, I might be more inclined to support it as a compromise.

[Amrun]

vote:Pomegranate

poor persephone

@antinfinity, why RNG?

fos: candlejack

not understanding the point on drew, reaching too much with amrun imo.

So, I hate rvs votes and FoSes in the same post, and when I asked Lobster, he had no explanation that made me feel any better.


But in post 149, Lobster addresses a real (and reasonable) suspicion of Pomegranate - and then switches his vote OFF of Pomegranate to a weak vote on malthusis.

In Lobster's next post, he keeps talking about Pom - and more mention of "Pom bussing" and "Pom distancing" that I really dislike; it seems really unnatural and out of the blue every time - and never again mentions malthusis until questioned about it later, only to say he was voting for malthusis at one point. Despite the majority of Lobster's discussion being on Pom, the only vote Lobster ever places on Pom was the RVS vote, which was bad since Lobster professed an actual suspicion of Candle Jack at the time.

Then in post 158, Lobster blatantly sheeps Grey to vote for Nocmen for a supposed slip that was not a slip, acting embarrassed. It seemed like an easy, opportunistic vote on a wagon scum sees as inevitable - and one of the reasons I think Nocmen+Lobster on the same scumteam. Why would Lobster be embarrassed not to have seen a non-slip? The more I read it, the more it feels like Lobster was like, "Oh shit, my buddy got caught! I better bus!" He HAD mentioned Nocmen reacted too strongly to Grey, but then later tries to paint this as "expressing suspicion," which is a stretch.

Post 222 raised a HUGE amount of alarms for me. "Multiscum is looking like a possibility here." Hubbawha? Why? Because the people you're pushing as your top suspects don't make sense as scum together, you're going to say O MULTISCUMZ LOL on day 1 before any flips? This really feels like a slip to me. I noted its strangeness at the time, and the "kill it with fire" instinct it inspires has not gone away with time.

And in general, I dislike the way he is dancing around the Stevie wagon. He seems to support it, but won't put a vote down, preferring to leave it somewhere where it is useless. He's egging it on while trying to keep his hands clean on it.

To contrast, he did not treat the Kast wagon this way at all. He avoided it completely, saying only this:

@Greyice-
How about you cut the crap and play the game? Flailing around randomly D1 like an idiot is just going to waste time and peg you for a useless VI. If you're scum, then keep it up, but if you're town, you're just going to hurt your credibility when you try to play seriously later. In either case, you're just setting yourself up as lynch bait (either as a mislynch or a sacrificial bus) and that's clearly not playing to your win con.

where has GI flailed around here or lost credibility? he claimed and sort of explained amrun's post. It seems to me you are trying to discredit GreyIce where there doesn't seem a need to be.

Basically, he said, "You are doing this thing that is a scumtell" but followed it with no FoS, no vote, nothing, preferring to keep his RVS vote for no good reason. He has never really expressed an opinion of Kast. Later, he backs off of this, saying Kast was "misinterpreting" instead. Kast definitely gets scumpoints if Lobster flips scum, even though I don't find Kast individually scummy outside of not voting at all.

[Amrun]

1) Read my wall above.
2) The timing. Someone mentioned her lack of serious vote, perhaps several someones, can't remember, and she comes and votes someone - and at the time of Pom's vote, Stevie hadn't done much to vote for.

[Amrun]

That Kast post alleviates all potential doubts for me. I would like to know why Kast is playing with his vote close to his chest and if he will join me in wagoning Lobster or Nocmen.

Minor point to Lobster - 'oops' with a blushing face = embarrassment.

Also, using multiscum as a way to justify incongruous scumhunting on day 1 just sends the town in circles, chasing its own tail, and is incredibly antitown. It's also a potential slip.

Piedit: oh yay, tajo is town

[Amrun]

Vpom, I'd like to see your response to Kast.

[Amrun]

Unvote; Vote Nocmen

[Amrun]

How am I supposed to know he read the thread? I was just making sure.

[Amrun]

ITT I have a gay boyfriend <3

Interested in hearing what Stevie has to say, but stop with the Stevie votes. Nocmen votes are sooo much sexier.

[Amrun]

Experience =/= adeptness

[Amrun]

Aw, my heart is broken.

I can understand most of your interpretation and generally agree with it.

I think you are misunderstanding my intent in a couple of posts, but that's okay for now. What is important is you are town.

It's going to take me awhile to fully process that infodump, but for now, I am confused on your stance on Lobster, which is relevant to my interests. Can you elucidate, please?

[Amrun]

OKAY SO

Had a minor revelation while re-reading some things.

Candle Jack, I think I saw what you saw.

Unvote: Nocmen; Vote: Lobster Catapult

[Amrun]

Kast's big post with a little section that says "Pomegranate." ...

[Amrun]

Why don't you mind a probable mislynch, malthusis?

That being said, your evaluation of Stevie lines up pretty well with mine.

But I DO mind Stevie being lynched.

[Amrun]

As much as your suspicion of Lobster pleases me, he has DEFINITELY mentioned the major wagon...

[Amrun]

Iece - I was voting the wagon, but Lobster sheeped onto it by quoting a "slip" that GreyICE pointed out. Hint, it was not a slip. That's a pretty reliable scumtell, in my book - more reliable than sliphunting itself.

[Amrun]

20 post catchup? This will be fun. -.-

[Amrun]

NOO MAKE IT STOP

MULTISCUM IS A TERRIBLE CONVERSATION THAT SHOULD NOT HAPPEN UNTIL AT LEAST ONE NIGHT HAS PASSED KTHX

[Amrun]

It's more important that they don't chase their tails. But your manner of bringing it up is not scummy, unlike Lobster's.

[Amrun]

Uh, LL.

Saying you lean scum on two different people does not mean you think they are scum together.

Listing who are the independently scummiest people in any given game, who make most sense as scum together, and who is the best lynch, will almost always produce different answers, especially early in a Large.

I don't consider pairings except for my very top suspects, at least not without a couple of flips.

p-edit: DATING SIM? lol I probably don't want to know. (GW I still <3 you.)

[Amrun]

Outguess the mod trolol

Don't lynch or not lynch on the basis of a nameclaim.

Stevie shouldn't be lynched but it's not because he claimed Rei.

P-edit: you should probs make sure stevie agrees to that plan, just saiyan

[Amrun]

Lobster wagon has cookies.

[Amrun]

Lobster, when did grey say something about multiscum? Must have missed it.

Also, just because I moved from Nocmen to you without explaining it much doesn't mean it is "opportunistic." It is, in fact, the opposite. I moved from a wagon with three votes to a wagon with none - that you're trying to brand that as opportunistic is laughable, actually, and shows you're totally fabricating your omgus case on me.

I won't explain why I moved, but there is a reason.


Nocmen, I said ace and drew were scummy because of my gut, BUT I definitely have looking at them on my "to-do" list for this game.

[Amrun]

Also Lobster's massive fencesit on Stevie is horrible.

[Amrun]

0) Don't care.
1) Also don't care. It didn't evolve; I just didn't express myself clearly.
2) Not even close to my reasoning.
3) Didn't even realize you were v/la, and going v/la for like one day doesn't d shit to my votes or where I will place them.
4) Why wouldn't I be interested in what Stevie has to say? Ridiculous. I wanted people on Nocmen because I thought he was scum and stevie wasn't - this is 1 plus 1. WHAT is the scum motivation for abondoning that when I saw a special towntell to vote for my other top suspect who had no other votes? There is none kthx

[Amrun]

GUYS you make me so happy <3

Some thoughts:

SpyreX, what do you mean tajo is scum if LC is if it's not bussing? Have I misunderstood?

Tajo: That is not a slip. I think the post makes sense.

Pom: 499 is fucking terrible. She didn't notice that when LC did it, when I pointed it out first, when Nocmen pointed it out second, but now that tajo says it a 4th or 5th time when Lobster's wagon is on, it's worth a "wtf" and a vote? Interestingly, this could go either way: opportunism OR bus, so it increases Pom's chance of being scum for sure.

If LC flips scum, I will suspect tajo a little bit. He didn't pay any attention to the wagon before, but all of a sudden spits out a quotewall case that is almost entirely regurgitations of points Nocmen and I raised previously? It could be genuine, but it struck me a ittle bit odd.

P-edit: what do you mean when noise started to build on malthusis? That never happened until recently and LC wasn't voting him then.

[Amrun]

You are misinterpreting him, I think, CJ.

[Amrun]

Wait, what? That isn't the reverse, Nocmen.

GUYS look at the freaking VCs and figure out you are wrong. *sigh*

[Amrun]

LLD, if Surye claimed scum, why didn't your vote follow?

I know you were being facetious, but it bugged me.

Someone's reads differing esp on day 1 =/= scum.

[Amrun]

I disagree with Surye's reads, too. And I'm not attacking you, LLD - as I said, I realize you were being facetious. I was just asking.

WHY is having different reads so excessively scummy at this point in the game?

[Amrun]

Silliness is fun.

[Amrun]

V/La for an indefinite period of time. My father had a heart attack. I will probably post a little, or maybe even a lot, depending on how much distraction I want, but I may disappear for a couple of days and wanted to make everyone aware.

Got it.
-K

[Amrun]

I don't reall y hjave a problem with the town voting. Bloc. As long as the people in it still question each othern there is no issue.

[Amrun]

Oh, and to prove a point. I support the town block and totally agree with all the things they are saying!

What point are you trying to prove here?

Kast wagon still sucks. Lobster wagon still has cookies - and lobsters!

[Amrun]

Why are we stalling so much?

[Amrun]

Like 5 pages of catchup, and my LC vote is still as golden as ever.

Malthusis is probably SK, but we can give him a night... Although I don't see how that will help, really, as if he is really SK, he will have a shot and we'll have to give like 3 nights to truly test. Kast put him back at L-1, btw.

vollkan, what is your actual stance on Candle Jack?

[Amrun]

Stevie, claim your action and results, please.

[Amrun]

Maybe I have a condition where the combination of v o e t in the correct order causes me physical pain.
Maybe I'm an odd day treestump even day doublevig divisible by 10 jester.
Maybe I'm afraid to voet anyone because it will inevitably lead to the downfall of western civilization.

On a realer note.

Maybe its nice to see some town on page 1 and that makes me happy.

The closest thing I found to a traitor claim - it's vague and weird, but everything else is like WOPFGJ.

I tried, at least.

[Amrun]

After Stevie claims, Kast might be a good lynch, but I hate playing this waiting game.

[Amrun]

Thanks for breadcrumbing, Pom.

Vote: Vollkan

[Amrun]

This game is fucking confusing.

VOTE: Candlejack

I guess.

[Amrun]

This game is fucking confusing.

What in particular?

Should we lynch CJ or try to find who he is deflecting from? That's one, for starters, but this game is kind of a clusterfuck atm.

[Amrun]

Wait, was that the hammer?

Guess some things will sort themselves out, then.

[Amrun]

Maybe the scumteam didn't know LLD was a mason?

If they did, though, then I agree.

[Amrun]

I doubt you would be modkilled... Didn't the mod already say you could post the messages?

[Amrun]

I doubt you would be modkilled... Didn't the mod already say you could post the messages?

Why do you think he'd be able to post? Usually, anything from the mod is off limits in a direct quote. Unless you have a relation to the messages?

I thought the mod said he could, on the day we lynched spyrex because of stevie. Too busy to check, though.

Either way, stevie can give us more than what he gave.

[Amrun]

So I forgot to say I was v/la.

Not really back but I will do my best to catch up asap.

[Amrun]

Hold the phone.

Iecerint, if scum is not causing people to die at night, WHO IS?

All votes on Kast are fucking TERRIBLE, and trhe worst of the lot are antifinity and GW.

GW's defense of himself was overblown and awful to boot - "I bussed twice." What other choice would scum have in reponse to vollkan and CJ? What a joke.

Vote: GhostWriter

As far as I am concerned, CJ confirms Nocmen, who in turn confirms Kast and LC. Anyone lynching out of these is retarded or scum.

Also, Kast's programs do nothing to regular non-pc town, as I had no idea Kast targetted me.

[Amrun]

So wait...an angel infestor, and an angel that only is produced when one is dead, is that what you are saying, Iece? I'm just doubting that, unsure that both roles would exist together.

Consider that we have events randomly converting masons into angels, and (flavor speculation) the episode format. Also, note the minimal (or total absence of) night kills from scum. My personal theory is that most, of the scum are converted, rather than existing from the start. It's certainly an interesting but fair mechanic, and would explain the 'bastard' disclaimer. I'd suggest everyone read up on their character flavor, see if there is any reason they would/could become an angel. For the same reason, I still support a mass claim, even if only of character names. I'd especially like to know if we have a real Asuka.

Imeant Antifinity. Sorry.
i

[Amrun]

Bullshit, Starbuck.

VOTE: Starbuck

Barring misdirection hijinx, Starbuck is confscum.

I'm VT, Shugeru Aoba, and I didn't target shit.

Starbuck has posted today - why wasn't this in the first post? Why didn't Starbuck claim ALL targets, as any pro-town player would have done? Why didn't she say she saw GreyICE, too, since he is supposed to be a watcher/tracker miller or something like that? The claim doesn't add up.

[Amrun]

What does not able to verify mean? Why did you choose the targets you chose?

P-edit: okay, but why didn't you try and verify more controversial players, like GI and Stevie? Why waiting so long on Stevie?

And why did you wait to claim?

[Amrun]

No, I mean why didn't you claim FIRST THING TODAY, when you posted?

[Amrun]

No, I mean why didn't you claim FIRST THING TODAY, when you posted?

[Amrun]

But why did that only change when I already had a wagon on me? It makes no sense.

Sorry for missing your reply, though.

[Amrun]

But it wasn't by me.

Hence the vote on you.

[Amrun]

Buuuut I'm not.

Anyone with results that can explain this, please speak up.

[Amrun]

I think this might be my worst game ever.

Ever.

I hated it, every second of it, and I don't know why.

Flavor was nice.

[Amrun]

Amrun, you did ok.

Thanks, but I don't think I did. Of course, this game happened at a time of my life where mafia was an obligation, and I think it shows the most in this game. I am pretty ashamed of my performance here.

Se la vie.

Pom used her PR very well - Vollkan was the towniest of us.

p-edit:

It was a bit of a strategical play. I thought you might blow up about it and I'd come off looking better. I really don't hold a grudge towards you, though. I swear.

[Amrun]

p-edit:

It was a bit of a strategical play. I thought you might blow up about it and I'd come off looking better. I really don't hold a grudge towards you, though. I swear.

I don't find that to be a sportsmanlike thing to do.

I don't know why you still care about it, seriously. I apologize if it really bothered you, but I thought you might say something about it and have it serve as a distraction, not get actually upset.

I wanted to create noise over cults and nonsense and I achieved my purpose very well.


Pom, I agree with you. I think you did a good job as a hider, though you could have breadcrumbed your n1 target.

[Amrun]

I think my only thing is that thje flavor absolutely confirmed one of the magi was scum, and that gave cj away pretty completely.

We were surprised by that and had we known the flavor would be so plain, we would have played it differently.

I agree that town outplauyed scum. This was a pretty abysmal scum game and if there is another nge game, let me know so I can play it and try to erase the horrible taste this one has left in my mouth (my own fault, of course).