Mini Normal 1187: Game Over

[Giitah]

LOLOLOLOL! BEFORE I READ YOUR EVIDENCE, LET ME LAUGH AT THE NERVE OF YOU TO PULL A STUNT WITH AN IMAGE LIKE THAT.

Hats off to you, my friend.

[pappums rat]

Vote Count 1.9

Pine - 5 (ace5993, archaebob, DemonHybrid, Giitah, foilist13)
DemonHybrid - 2 (hiplop, Pine)
archaebob- 1 (Heliman)
hiplop - 1 (Barry Allen)
nintendoaddict1- 1 (Scumhunter)

Not Voting - jilynne1991, nintendoaddict1, Valern


With 13 alive it takes 7 votes to lynch.

The deadline for Day 1 is 12 A.M. on June 26, 2011.

I am prodding jilynne1991 because she is supposed to be coming back from V/LA today. If she posts today (Monday) I will rescind the prod.
Heliman is V/LA until Wednesday.

[Valern]

'Nerve'? 'Stunt'?

Your wording twinges my gut, Giitah. Best I can describe it, it reads like nervous laughter rather than a genuine HAHAHA U SO FUNNY VALERN. I'll keep it in mind.

Bob reads town for being proactive. Jilynne reads town as of the top of page 5. I can't see newbscum coming in so calmly with 5 votes on her, even if it was outright stated it was a pressure wagon.

[nintendoaddict1]

This is a lie.

I present to the jury three town games and a scum game, none of which feature Nintendoaddict feeling the need to preface his vote with an "RVS:" If it's scummy that he felt the need to do so, it's even

more

scummy that he felt the need to lie about why he was doing it.

You said it yourself, one of those games I was scum, so why is it incriminating that I started doing it? How do you know I just didn't do it before, and only started recently doing it? Where I started playing mafia, they

always

label RVS votes so I probably just got used to automatically labeling them so.

[Pine]

Hurray! Let's lynch the guy on vacation!

I won't be able to make an effective defense against this complete bullshit of a wagon on me until I'm posting from something other than my phone. I get home very late tomorrow, so expect a wallpost Wednesday.

[Giitah]

'Nerve'? 'Stunt'?

Your wording twinges my gut, Giitah. Best I can describe it, it reads like nervous laughter rather than a genuine HAHAHA U SO FUNNY VALERN. I'll keep it in mind.

Bob reads town for being proactive. Jilynne reads town as of the top of page 5. I can't see newbscum coming in so calmly with 5 votes on her, even if it was outright stated it was a pressure wagon.

Oh, what? C'mon, it made me laugh. =___=" are you serious?

I think Jilynne's rather used to pressure; I've read through some of her games, actually, and she doesn't normally react too strongly to wagons. I would say it's a null tell, actually.

[Barry Allen]

Hurray! Let's lynch the guy on vacation!

I won't be able to make an effective defense against this complete bullshit of a wagon on me until I'm posting from something other than my phone. I get home very late tomorrow, so expect a wallpost Wednesday.

Pine, you

are

able to post. You want us to wait for 48 more hours when the vote is already at L-2? I believe any player deserves a chance to post a defense. But, given that you CAN post and are checking the thread I don't think it is right to wait until Wednesday to move my vote from hiplop to you. It isn't reasonable to ask us to wait until the 22nd for a defense, especially when you are proving you have access and can post. If you have something to say, please say it now.

[Pine]

I'm

barely

able to post. I certainly can't go over the last few pages, extract quotes, make a big wall, and post it. It would take hours and be enormously difficult to do on my phone. THAT is why my content has been poor.

I'm going to be traveling all day tomorrow and expect to get in around 11 PM. I expect to spend a large portion of Wednesday catching up.

So yes, I expect Town to be willing to wait for someone to get off of limited access before speedlynching them.

[archaebob]

unvote vote Barry Allen

Pine, you are able to post. You want us to wait for 48 more hours when the vote is already at L-2? I believe any player deserves a chance to post a defense. But, given that you CAN post and are checking the thread I don't think it is right to wait until Wednesday to move my vote from hiplop to you. It isn't reasonable to ask us to wait until the 22nd for a defense, especially when you are proving you have access and can post. If you have something to say, please say it now.

You are officially tipping over from "weird and unreadable" to "scummy" with all of the opportunistic foreshadowing in that post.

@ everyone -

You guys, we should give Pine until Wednesday, and I'm not feeling Barry Allen right now at all. There's a lot of stuff in his play I've been deliberately ignoring because it seemed to stem from his unique playstyle, but I've had enough. This last post was WAY scum.

[Giitah]

I guess I won't leave Archaebob hanging, then. Really, I'll be frank, I'm not sure who to kill, but the ones who have struck me as the most scummy are Hiplop and Heliman, mostly based solely on gut reads. I'm also fine with a Jilynne or Pine kill at this point, just because neither have presented anything that can be reasonably considered as useful to the town and both appear somewhat scummy to me; Jilynne for, while having participated actively in other games, HARDLY PARTICIPATED AT ALL in our game (before she went V/LA); and Pine, just because he seems to like jumping whenever anyone points so much as a finger in his direction, regardless of the fact that he's on V/LA.

@Archaebob
My vote won't move until Wednesday, then. I'll let Barry Allen speak for himself in defence.

[ace5993]

I agree with not lynching Pine until Wednesday, however my vote isn't moving.

[nintendoaddict1]

Pine, just because he seems to like jumping whenever anyone points so much as a finger in his direction, regardless of the fact that he's on V/LA.

Even though he is V/LA he cannot quote posts, thus he cannot make a defense. Why you want to kill him now, especially after he posted basically saying that, is beyond me.

[Giitah]

Whoever said I wanted to kill him now? I said I was fine with killing him. At this point I'm not especially comfortable with killing anyone but I also know it's pretty much necessary to gain information. He's acted pretty scummy up until now regardless of the fact that he can't give us any detailed information because of his behaviour.

[nintendoaddict1]

Whoever said I wanted to kill him now? I said I was fine with killing him. At this point I'm not especially comfortable with killing anyone but I also know it's pretty much necessary to gain information. He's acted pretty scummy up until now regardless of the fact that he can't give us any detailed information because of his behaviour.

You are either for or against a Pine lynch. Don't fencesit. You said you are fine with it, thus are in favor, correct?

[archaebob]

@ ace -

How do you feel about Barry Allen's last post? I really don't like the tone of it. To me it's textbook scum fabricating a gradual progression of thought and weaving it into the thread to simulate a town person changing their mind.

Hurray! Let's lynch the guy on vacation!

I won't be able to make an effective defense against this complete bullshit of a wagon on me until I'm posting from something other than my phone. I get home very late tomorrow, so expect a wallpost Wednesday.

Pine, you

are

able to post. You want us to wait for 48 more hours when the vote is already at L-2? I believe any player deserves a chance to post a defense.

But, given that you CAN post and are checking the thread I don't think it is right to wait until Wednesday to move my vote from hiplop to you.

It isn't reasonable to ask us to wait until the 22nd for a defense, especially when you are proving you have access and can post. If you have something to say, please say it now.

This sounds like Barry Allen has already planned on "moving his vote over" to Pine at the next available opportunity.

OK, before I hit the road for a looooong drive for work, I want to throw out some quick thoughts on what has been happening lately.

1. Bob makes an interesting argument on DH.

I'm not certain I agree with every point raised by Bob on DH, but it does cast a suspicion on DH that made me pay attention.

The role claim afterward does give me a bit of pause as far as a D1 vote. However, (see point 2)
2. Pine caught my attention just as much by "reversing my (Pine's) stance on Bob" and quickly voting DH. It was a VERY convenient and all-too-quick jump for my taste.
3.

But, Pine is still V/LA and even though 1 day is left and "he's semi-posting" I would rather wait for a defense before switching a vote.

Bottom line is that I'm still concerned about hiplop, jil and Pine, with an "I don't know but I'm not happy with" type read on Nintendoaddict. My vote is still on hiplop for now,

but that is something I'll review more closely when I can get back on late tonight.

Everything blue is scummy. I was ignoring a lot of it because he seems to just be overly cautious and weird in general, but I can't justify his stance on Pine at this point. You don't "wait for a defense before switching a vote". You either think he's scum or you don't, and you

demand

a defense accordingly. This sounds like Barry Allen has already decided he's going to vote Pine, and is just waiting for the bureaucratic technicality of a defense before doing so. There's nothing unreasonable about Pine's request that we wait until Wednesday, and Barry Allen's response to him is just not right all.

I held off on my vote due to waiting for hiplop to come back and reply/defend before I did anything else. That being said, I have no problem with a little pressure on the 8-legged player in the meantime. I don't like the lack of contribution, as it does prevent us from being able to have any sort of read. So, for now...I don't mind making the vote:

VOTE: Deuxieme Octopus

Didn't seem to have a problem voting someone without hearing a defense first earlier in the game.

Also, his case on hiplop feels really contrived to me as well.

Ace, are you like me in that you stopped paying close attention to Barry after deciding that his meta was just weird? If so, I'd like you to look at him again now.

[Barry Allen]

unvote vote Barry Allen

You are officially tipping over from "weird and unreadable" to "scummy" with all of the opportunistic foreshadowing in that post.

@ everyone -

You guys, we should give Pine until Wednesday, and I'm not feeling Barry Allen right now at all. There's a lot of stuff in his play I've been deliberately ignoring because it seemed to stem from his unique playstyle, but I've had enough. This last post was WAY scum.

Bob, I do believe you are town, but I also believe you are jumping to conclusions on this point. I was

not

giving "foreshadowing" with my post, nor was I being "opportunistic". At least one of the votes on Pine right now was due to my prior pointing out the scumminess of Pine's actions. I left my vote on hiplop (who I still believe is scummy) this morning when I left for work, planning to switch to Pine if there was not a reasonable defense when I came back to thread. However, when I came back this evening I found that there had been a very quick vote on Pine that had already built up to L-2. That's what stopped my switch - I don't believe in going to L-1 where a quickhammer can end the discussion (and phase) without a reasonable chance to defend. That being said, things are now different thanks to Bob's change of vote. We are now at L-3, not L-2. Further, I am very disappointed that Pine seems to be able to stay active on thread while "V/LA" but wants us to wait 48 hours for a defense. Given that I will

Unvote hiplop

VOTE: Pine

Now, bob, we are back at L-2. I didn't (and don't) mind taking us to L-2 before a defense. I just wasn't ready to go to L-1 and allow a quickhammer before a reasonable chance for a defense was given.

NOTE: While I was typing this, I found more "case" on me from Bob. Please note my review of L-2 versus L-3. I don't believe in going to L-1 without a chance to defend. My vote on the octopus was NOT taking us to L-1, and it was a pressure vote to get more info out of our 8-legged friend. This is different - my vote prior to Bob's vote change would have taken us to L-1 where a quickhammer would end the discussion. I do believe that is a significant difference.

[Giitah]

Whoever said I wanted to kill him now? I said I was fine with killing him. At this point I'm not especially comfortable with killing anyone but I also know it's pretty much necessary to gain information. He's acted pretty scummy up until now regardless of the fact that he can't give us any detailed information because of his behaviour.

You are either for or against a Pine lynch. Don't fencesit. You said you are fine with it, thus are in favor, correct?

If the town is all in favor of killing Pine after Wednesday, I will willingly join. So, to answer your question, yes, I am in favor of killing Pine, if it comes to it that we have no other reasonable lead we can agree on and Pine continues to act scummy.

[foilist13]

I'm a tad weirded out by you feeling the need to tell archaebob that he's town before you start defending yourself. That feels like buddying to me.

The L-1 thing is plausible, but you didn't say that when you were deciding to vote for him later. If that really was your primary reason, and in fact the only thing standing between him and your vote, then why didn't you include it in your post? You had lots of other flowery language in there, and you voted him as soon as he went down to L-3. That seems like a very specific criteria to neglect.

[nintendoaddict1]

3.

But, Pine is still V/LA and even though 1 day is left and "he's semi-posting" I would rather wait for a defense before switching a vote.

I don't believe in going to L-1 where a quickhammer can end the discussion (and phase) without a reasonable chance to defend. That being said, things are now different thanks to Bob's change of vote. We are now at L-3, not L-2. Further, I am very disappointed that Pine seems to be able to stay active on thread while "V/LA" but wants us to wait 48 hours for a defense. Given that I will

Unvote hiplop

VOTE: Pine

Now, bob, we are back at L-2. I didn't (and don't) mind taking us to L-2 before a defense. I just wasn't ready to go to L-1 and allow a quickhammer before a reasonable chance for a defense was given.

You still ignore the fact that you said you would rather wait for a defense, and then say you are disappointed that he wants us to wait another two days.

VOTE: Barry Allen

[archaebob]

Hurray! Let's lynch the guy on vacation!

I won't be able to make an effective defense against this complete bullshit of a wagon on me until I'm posting from something other than my phone. I get home very late tomorrow, so expect a wallpost Wednesday.

Pine, you

are

able to post. You want us to wait for 48 more hours when the vote is already at L-2? I believe any player deserves a chance to post a defense. But, given that you CAN post and are checking the thread

I don't think it is right to wait until Wednesday to move my vote

from hiplop to you.

It isn't reasonable to ask us to wait until the 22nd for a defense

, especially when you are proving you have access and can post.

If you have something to say, please say it now.

Look at the blue. If you meant all this, why didn't you vote him right then? You seem to be implying that you

would

put him to L-1 if he continued to not defend himself.

Also, what exactly seems unreasonable to you about having limited access to a thread and therefore being unable to respond to a text wall properly? Pine's request for more time makes *perfect* sense.

@ ace -

To what extent did you stop seriously looking at Barry Allen after deciding that he just had a weird meta? I know I kind of gave him a free pass, and if you did too, I'm asking you to look at him more closely now and reconsider.

[Barry Allen]

OK, I've had enough with the "case". Let's talk plainly.

1. Moving the thread to L-1 sets us up for a "quickhammer" that ends all debate, all discussion, and all scumhunting for the phase. If we did happen to be wrong, it would be all to easy for a scum to "accidentally" trip us over to a ML and then spend the night phase laughing their socks off at us. That's why, in past rounds I've played here, it is not a good idea to go to L-1 while still waiting for a defense.

2. I was ready to go to a vote on Pine tonight when I left this morning if there were no good defense. I did not, however, anticipate that we would be at L-2 when I returned to thread.

3. Pine doesn't appear to be

that

limited in access, posting rather frequently in the thread while claiming to be on V/LA. At this point, I have to wonder whether that is an accurate claim, or whether Pine is simply hoping that an additional 48 hours will allow the heat to go elsewhere (as it is obviously doing right now).

I'm being targeted because I pointed out Pine was acting scummy but didn't immediately move my vote. Then, I came back to the thread and refused to move us to L-1, but still pointed out that Pine was acting scummy. Now, I'm supposedly scummy for not moving us to L-1, but also for continuing to believe Pine is scummy and voting when my vote would

not

take us to L-1. That allows the rest of the players to consider the fact that Pine (I believe) is playing us for time rather than actually making a defense.

Even if Pine has only smart phone access (must be a great smart phone to allow him to keep up with the thread and post as much as he has while "V/LA", let's think for just a moment. I would not expect a long response to "wall-o-text", but I

would

expect at least

some

measure of defense, rather than continued delays. The claim from Pine doesn't ring true to me, and I don't buy it.

[archaebob]

@ BarryAllen -

must be a great smart phone to allow him to keep up with the thread and post as much as he has while "V/LA"

How old are you?

[Barry Allen]

I told you, I'm an old guy. I realize there are smart phones that can access the thread. I was being snarky with that line. However, my point stands. Pine may not be able to respond to "wall-o-text" but that doesn't mean absolutely NO defense is appropriate here. The idea that we should wait for 48 hours for any sort of defense in not appropriate. It would be much more understandable to post part of a defense and then to say he would give us more when he could get to a computer, but NOT okay to claim he can't access us for a real defense.

Let's also look at other ways to contribute. If he is visiting friends or family, they likely have a computer he could use. If he is in a hotel (as I am right now) he could either use a company-supplied laptop (if he has one) or simply go down to the lobby and use the computer that just about every hotel now has available for use. If he is in school he can use a computer there (some schools set up firewalls but I've played with plenty of folks who could get around the firewall to play).

Simply claiming "I'm just on a smart phone, poor me" doesn't ring true - not when asking for 48 additional hours and still actively posting while on "V/LA".

[Barry Allen]

btw bob - you are OK with Pine having the extra time to post a defense, that it makes "perfect" sense. Yet, had I voted and taken him to L-1 a quickhammer would have cut off any opportunity for that defense. You are trying to have it both ways - going after me for allowing an opportunity for defense without a quickhammer, then saying you really want Pine to have that time to defend.

[archaebob]

@ Barry Allen -

Your alignment has nothing to do with whether or not I agree with you. A player that was consistently reckless and cocksure could vote someone to L-1 in this situation without my thinking they were scum. It's a question of whether or not you are consistent with how I think

you

would act as town. The reckless player who suddenly stalls for time and makes up poor reasons for not switching his vote at the last second would be scummy.

In any case, Pine's description of his situation and request for more time are completely believable to me, so I'd appreciate it if you would put this issue to rest.

While we're here, can you please quickly summarize your reasons for finding hiplop scummy? Right now I find your whole case against him to be misguided at best, and downright manipulative sounding at times. All I'm asking for is your three top points, and a link to a post of yours where you articulated the issue.